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2004 Online Chats
Pat Cavins and Keith Krych Online Chat 1/28/04 by Pat Cavins & Keith Krych

<Chatman> Everyone, lets give a big WC welcome to two of the nicest handliners I know, Pat Cavins and Keith Krych!
<Juls> clap clap clap clap clap clap...welcome Keith and Pat! Thanks for coming tonight...
<Driftr> clap clap clap
<Cooper> clap clap
<Pat Cavins> At least you didn't spell fat
<Keith Krych> thanks all
<Juls> hehe
<Chatman> Lets start with a little intro fellas
<fatboy> hey now !
<Chatman> intro man i cant spell tonight
<Chatman> Keith where are you from?
<Keith Krych> I'm from st clair shores just north of detroit
<Cooper> hi rippin eyes
<Keith Krych> I'm the Vice Pres of the lake st clair walleye association and I fish tournys
<Chatman> a few prime handlining rivers right at your back door
<Russ> Pat-Is it better to use handlines in the morning or evening?
<Rippin_eyes> howdy all
<Rippin_eyes> wow
<Chatman> Pat, tell us a little about you
<Keith Krych> yea the detroit and st clair are a handliners dream
<Pat Cavins> All day long
<Juls> what's handlining? How do you do it? What do I need to do it? Hehehe ok guys....your off and running...im going to sit back and learn something while I sip my coffee... ;-)))
<Keith Krych> thanks Juls
<Cooper> lol
<Pat Cavins> Keith you start I'll chime in
<Cooper> hi scooter
<scooter> hi all
<Keith Krych> handling started in the detroit area in the 1920's
<Cooper> ill be back guys, gotta eat supper
<Keith Krych> they used copper wire from the telephone poles and attached shash weights and rowd the river
<Juls> Pat you'll need to take the gloves off man!
<Pat Cavins> I'm just trying to read fast enough
<Keith Krych> now we have spring loaded reels and $40K boats
<Pat Cavins> the heck with punctuation
<Keith Krych> handlining really is effective in dirty water more than clean
<Juls> why is that?
<Pat Cavins> some of the best handliners fish out of 14 foot aluminum boats w/8hp
<jdmwalleye> what is the advantage of handlining 
<Keith Krych> in dirty water a jig goes by at the speed of the current handlining can go much slower and be in the zone longer
<Russ> how effective in stained water
<Keith Krych> it can be very effective you can stay on "the spot" and really nail them
<I Bob> Hi everyone
<Keith Krych> hay pat join in any time
<Keith Krych> :-)
<terroreyes> Can handlining be effectively used in shallower waters like about 8-10 FOW or is it best used in deeper areas
<Pat Cavins> Keith is one of the guys that taught me, Marty Sevilla is the other
<Chatman> I think they like honing in the vibrations too when its dirty
<Iboat> it sounds like it is for fishing current only?
<Pat Cavins> I catch a lot of fish in shallow, but I also shorten up my shanks
<Keith Krych> you can use it in that shallo0w of h2o only if there are no weeds
<Keith Krych> hi tom
<Tom O> <Enter Text Here>Hi Everyone
<Pat Cavins> I always carry at least 20lb's weights, and a lot of shanks ranging from 3' to 6'
<Keith Krych> hi skeet
<Pat Cavins> Hey Skeeter
<scooter> what is the average leader length
<skeeter> Hi all!
<Keith Krych> I use 20' and 40' the most here on the detroit river
<Pat Cavins> Current helps but I have done it on Winnebago
<Chatman> hey Nels
<skeeter> HI
<Keith Krych> but i also use 30 &15 with a 6' kicker
<Juls> do you use snubbers?
<Keith Krych> yes on the short kicker
<Chartertalk> what # leader do you run?
<Pat Cavins> on leads of 6' to 10'
<Juls> how do you rig it with a snubber? Can you explain?
<Pat Cavins> 20lb
<Shep> Do you start HL, or go to it when "traditional" methods aren't producing?
<Keith Krych> i use 20# mason hard type leader material
<Terroreyes> I saw your video has a spot about whipping....... what is that?
<Keith Krych> it coils on the bottom of the boat nicely
<Pat Cavins> Iíll handline up river & drift & jig down till the fish tell me what they want
<Fatboy> pat and Keith? If you could only take one lure with you what would it be?
<Keith Krych> I always start to handline switch to other methods later
<Pat Cavins> #7 firetiger Rapala
<Chartertalk> where are your reels mounted on your new 620?
<jdmwalleye> do you use this method anywhere but rivers
<Keith Krych> using a snubber next to the shank and then the leader with the rapala
<Keith Krych> RAPALLA all sizes 5 to 13
<Pat Cavins> I mount mine about 5 feet in front of where I'm sitting
<Juls> So you only use the snubber for the initial hit....not while you're fighting the fish in...That right?
<Pat Cavins> I drop the wire on occasion & want to be able to grab it quick
<Keith Krych> I have ram rod bases just in front of the console.... we have an adapter for the bases
<Scooter> when you say snubber is it like a great lakes salmon snubber or?
<Juls> smaller and thinner scooter...but the same otherwise
<Keith Krych> yes a snubber that you use for a dipsy diver
<Chatman> hey fish
<fatboy> pat do you ever have fish straighten the hooks out on the size #7 raps
<Fishnmagician> hey pj
<Pat Cavins> The snubber will come into play on a bigger fish otherwise a 2# you don't really notice the stretch
<Chatman> Pat makes a good point about the reel location
<Tom O> Keith, when jigging, the water needs to have some clarity to be successful, how does water clarity affect handlining?
<Keith Krych> the snubber absorbs the shock and fight of the fish... no stretch with wire
<Keith Krych> in Gin clear water handlining turns off
<Keith Krych> thatís when I start to jig
<Pat Cavins> Same snubbers
<Pat Cavins> Hey Chris, did you hook up with Carl
<Tom O> Is handlining effective in muddy water?
<scooter> maybe i missed it but what test leader
<Pat Cavins> #20-#30
<Chris Demattio> <Enter Text Here>Yes I signed up with him for Erie
<scooter> thanks 
<Keith Krych> the farther up front in the boat you mount the reels the better...less interference with the feel
<Pat Cavins> It coils nicely in the bottom of the boat instead of tangling
<Keith Krych> yes in muddy water I look for the mud line and fish back and forth 
<Chatman> hey breeze
<Mrbreeze> sorry I'm late (or I'm I early?)
<Chatman> didnít you buy their video?
<Chatman> mrbreeze?
<mrbreeze> yep...like the skynyrd song
<Pat Cavins> Keith should we talk tacking
<Mrbreeze> Great video guys.
<Chris Demattio> I am looking forward to doing some pre fishing with him. I will arrive on the Fri before so I will have plenty of time to fish.
<Tom O> Will your video be available at the Spring show at the Southgate Civic Center?
<Keith Krych> just thinking that too
<Keith Krych> Iíll be at the Ford field show and Gibraltar in mtclemens
<Chris Demattio> Pat I never did get to say thanks for hooking us up. Thank you!!
<Keith Krych> when trolling upriver you tack at a 45 angle to the current 
<Tom O> Thanks
<Scooter> video?
<Chatman> hey Denied
<Keith Krych> this separates you baits in the water and you cover twice the bottom 
<Denied(Oh)> evening all
<Pat Cavins> When Handlining it is best to move side to side versus heading straight upriver
<I Bob> why do you tack??
<Chatman> hi Steve
<Pat Cavins> I answered before you asked I bob
<Keith Krych> you can stay on the fish by tacking back and letting the current slightly take you back over the fish
<FreeByrd> Hello
<I Bob> thanks
<Keith Krych> yes we have a handling video out its on pats web site
<Pat Cavins> When handlining you hover slide side to side, drop back, or go forward
<scooter> thanks again
<Keith Krych> all of the above
<Keith Krych> you can get pretty creative with boat control
<skeeter> Is their a speed you try to stay at
<Pat Cavins> Keith what's the best way to land a fish
<Keith Krych> i the detroit river I'll tack into a bar or structure and slide along its length and pull away
<Keith Krych> small fish i flip into the boat
<Mrbreeze> Most say it works best in muddy water, how does it work in clear or do you jig that?
<skeeter> Wonder why I have never seen anyone handline the Saginaw River
<Pat Cavins> and hope your partner doesn't bury the hooks in your rain suit
<Keith Krych> larger fish i net by placing the net just behind the fish and dropping the fish back into the net
<Chris Demattio> when handling with two people in the boat where does each person fish in the boat
<Keith Krych> LOL
<Pat Cavins> The #18 Northern in the video created a lot of chaos in the boat
<Keith Krych> both sit in the back of the boat
<Fatboy> skeeter those guys up at the sag. Could not figure it out.
<Keith Krych> I use my TR-1 auto pilot to control the boat
<Pat Cavins> one in each corner, or some guys put the reels way up front & sit in the seats
<Keith Krych> control
<Pat Cavins> I use Panther Electro Steer
<Driftr> hi marc
<mrbreeze> I'll have the equipment skeeter, if you want to give it a try
<Satch_MN> Keith I signed up with you for the RCL tour I hope to learn more about the tr-1 prefishing
<Keith Krych> the TR-1 allows me to hit auto while I land the fish
<Chris Demattio> in the detroit do you use electric motor or kicker
<Jdmwalleye> do you use this on Erie?
<skeeter> Be fun to try 
<Pat Cavins> While handlining it looks like your polishing the side of your of boat with your arm
<Keith Krych> skeeter your always welcome in my boat
<Skeeter> Thank you sir!
<Keith Krych> i use my T-8 Yamaha kicker with a Mackís prop guard
<Pat Cavins> Lets get some order of?
<mrbreeze> Do the mounts that you sell get the reels out away from the boat
<Keith Krych> the prop guard prevents the wire line from getting in the prop
<Pat Cavins> Yes about 8" from the rod holder
<Keith Krych> yes they place the reel about 8 inches from the boat
<Pat Cavins> Mac's Prop Guards are the best
<Keith Krych> they have and arm off the base
<mrbreeze> great, i was concerned about scuffing the side of the boat with the wire
<Keith Krych> the wire is plastic coated... no worries
<Chatman> breeze I havenít found that to be a problem
<Chatman> ditto to what Keith said
<Skeeter> Do you guys wear gloves? I saw chairman with bloody hands once.
<Pat Cavins> The adapters are made of aluminum
<mrbreeze> good, Iíve never done it...just an observation - I'm a worrier
<Keith Krych> just remember NEVER wrap the wire line around your hand
<Keith Krych> wrap
<mrbreeze> ouch
<Chatman> worry more about getting hung up lol
<Pat Cavins> I wear a light leather glove to protect my fingers from nicks in the coating, Keith wears a finger guard
<Eyesrfn> would this work in the Missouri river above ft peck? in Montana
<Chris Demattio> when you snag is it usually the lures or the weight
<Keith Krych> i wear a cotton coated glove in the spring the rest of the year bare handed
<Keith Krych> maximum feel that way
<Denied(Oh)> I have copy of Pat & Keithís video, if you want to learn to hand line it is well worth getting.
<Guest1> <Enter Text Here>do you maintain bottom contact?
<Keith Krych> thanks for the support
<Pat Cavins> Thanks denied
<Keith Krych> just like jigging you tap bottom but donít drag the sinker
<Denied(Oh)> do you ever handline out on the open lake?
<Pat Cavins> bottom contact varies with bottom structure & mood of fish also where they are in the water column 
<Keith Krych> yes I've handlined the reefs in Erie and on Saginaw bay
<Satch_MN> would hand lining be one technique you would use on the Illinois river?
<Keith Krych> defiantly yes
<Denied(Oh)> how did it go on the reefs?
<Keith Krych> and the Mississippi
<Pat Cavins> On the Miss, we we're handlining up to 3mph go figure
<Skeeter> I bet for a newbie handlining at the end of the day his harms would be shot.
<Chatman> guts I see in the business directory that you have an ad for a video 
<Chatman> guys sorry lol
<Chatman> can you tell us about it a little?
<Keith Krych> handlining you just turn and bang your on then again
<Ristorapper> talk about jumping ship PJ
<Pat Cavins> The weights aren't that bad, you can switch off with your partner side
<Chatman> what rist?
<Ristorapper> all those that got booted
<Keith Krych> or just get use to it jigging all day hurts my wrists
<Pat Cavins> The advertising directory is great for exposure
<Satch_MN> Keith, I signed up with you for the RCL tour I will be able to prefish at Illinois river, hope to have 2 1/2 day worth prefish
<Keith Krych> we have all the necessary handlining accessories on pats web site for sale
<Skeeter> I think the history of handlining is very interesting, and what they used to use for reels was something else.
<Keith Krych> satch I'll be there with pat and we can fish together
<Pat Cavins> The old victrola record players was used way back when
<Keith Krych> they first used just a board to wrap the wire on
<Juls> ok...leave it home..;-)) Weíll find you a ride...heck, i will probably have to find a ride too....both Ricks and my boats are already sold for this year!..dont worry i will find you a ride
<Pat Cavins> As Keith stated they took the sash weights from windows
<Keith Krych> then they used old victrola boxes thatís were the reels started
<Juls> we will ride with bob on the just look'n....he's a blast to fish with.
<Juls> oops
<Eyesrfn> ha ha 
<Keith Krych> i just got a 04 620 with yam 225 4st
<Juls> my whisper friend got booted and i'm talking to myself now
<Eyesrfn> teach her to talk in the secret mode hee hee
<Juls> lol
<Mrbreeze> Given two rapalas, what are your "go to" size and colors?
<skeeter> 225, man thatís a long ways from the boat you started in huh Keith
<Keith Krych> #7 chartreuse and a #9 jointed firetiger
<Keith Krych> they get bigger and more expensive every year
<FreeByrd> Juls - that was kind of like getting caught talking to yourself in a parking lot or something - not that I ever do that...lol
<Pat Cavins> #7 & #9 Firetiger then chartreuse
<Chris Demattio> floaters or husky jerks
<Juls> hehehe I'm blushing for some reason...;-)
<Keith Krych> i also have some "custom" raps that i break out for tournys only :-)
<Ristorapper> I may have missed but how much weight we bouncing w/handlining
<Pat Cavins> floaters 
<Mrbreeze> wow did you guys rehearse that? Sounds like those are popular colors
<Keith Krych> 1# up to 2 1/2#
<Pat Cavins> from 10oz to 2 1/2 pounds depending on current
<Ristorapper> one arm/ bicep bigger than the other ??
<Keith Krych> colors can change depending on water clarity and cloud cover
<Skeeter> I have to take off, wife has to use computer so will talk to you all later. Nice job Keith and Pat! 
<Keith Krych> Iím right handed so i use the driver side
<Keith Krych> see yaw skeeter
<Chris Demattio> do the rivers ever get so crowded that you can not control the boat properly
<Chatman> by Nels
<eyebanger(oh)> Room
<Chatman> tell her donít open any attachments lol
<Juls> lol
<Keith Krych> i've trolled right through jigger on the detroit river
<Pat Cavins> thatís when I love to handline I can pull fish from under your boat & you'll never know it
<Chatman> you need to stay away from the crowds on the detroit
<Ristorapper> EVERYONE be looking for a lefty then
<Keith Krych> i love to pull fish from where the just were
<Chatman> most guys drive right over the best spots on their way to the community holes
<Chatman> hey Jim
<Chatman> perch jerker here if you didnít know
<Keith Krych> remember I'm trolling up and the are drifting down current
<Pat Cavins> just remember to start out at a crawl then adjust from there
<Keith Krych> I can zig zag right thru them
<Keith Krych> there are plenty of spots on the river so you just have to go to another spot
<Pat Cavins> How about adding bait to the cranks
<Satch_MN> For someone that has never handlined what should I expect 
<Keith Krych> at times i tip my rapalas with a minnow or a small piece of crawler
<Pat Cavins> It is real similar to ice fishing once you have a fish on
<Keith Krych> to catch a lot of fish :-)
<Keith Krych> your hand is the rod and reel
<Keith Krych> its easier to show you how its done than to explain it
<Pat Cavins> your fingers are the drag
<Satch_MN> I hope we can hook up at Spring Valley
<Pat Cavins> Hey Pete
<Pat Cavins> Absolutely
<Keith Krych> i think i gave you my cell # if not e-mail me and Iíll give it to you
<Chris Demattio> do you mainly fish the heavy current or the slack waters or do you stay on the transition areas
<Keith Krych> if anyone lives in the detroit area...come to the lake st clair walleye association meeting
<Pat Cavins> Satch, just remember what you see at Spring Valley 
<Keith Krych> we have more river rats that handline that you can shake a stick at
<Satch_MN> always willing to learn new techniques
<Keith Krych> depends where the fish are
<Chatman> where are those meeting at Keith?
<Pat Cavins> what we call heavy current doesn't always affect the fish like it does our brains
<Keith Krych> we meet at the Eastpointe eagles hall on 8 mile and Gratiot on the third wed of the month at 7:30pm
<Chatman> ok I will try to make it one month
<Keith Krych> you can call the club phone at 586-778-0480
<Keith Krych> that # goes to my house
<Pat Cavins> OK I took my gloves off now
<Keith Krych> on the detroit river the fish more relate to bottom current breaks
<Keith Krych> most you cant see on the sonar because of the overlapping rocks
<ETT> Is there a way to identify them 
<Pat Cavins> Keith isn't your article on Handlining on WC somewhere
<Keith Krych> you just have to bounce you weights over them
<Keith Krych> I have an article posted on handlining on WC
<Pat Cavins> ETT identify what?
<Keith Krych> Its on the update page still
<ETT> bottom current breaks
<Peter H> What make a better underwater current break than another? What are you looking for?
<Pat Cavins> Unfortunately his article is good enough you may not need the video
<Keith Krych> they hide in the slag and boulders on the bottom... 
<Chatman> Guys if you are interested, their website is www.anglingadventurestv.com
<Keith Krych> bigger the better for attracting more eyes
<Pat Cavins> On the Detroit River it's usually Volkswagens
<Chatman> no, datsuns
<Keith Krych> but some small spots I know always hold a fish or two
<Chatman> actually all the snags in the detroit is from old roadbed they tore up when they built the freeways
<Chris Demattio> do you try to get the weight in the hatch back window
<Keith Krych> in 02 my partner and I on the MWT caught 23 fish weighing 6# oar better on just one rock finger on the river
<Pat Cavins> Peter H I prefer points or fingers
<Satch_MN> I have read the article of handlining in the western walleye mag. I will probably be buying a tape and get a head start before spring valley
<Keith Krych> that or old cannons from the war of 1812 or old ship anchors of Jimmy Hoffa :-)
<Chatman> hope you liked it Satch ;)
<Chatman> i wrote that article
<Keith Krych> or model T's or refrigerators or............................
<Pat Cavins> Or Bodies
<Chatman> no, the bodies float silly
<Pat Cavins> They pulled 3 out my last tourney there
<Keith Krych> I have an article on handlining coming out on western walleye mag too
<Juls> ewe
<Chatman> hey guys were are going to wrap things up on that note lol
<Chatman> everyone is welcome to hang around
<Keith Krych> keep you lines in the water and you hooks sharp
<Juls> we still have ten underwater out here....poor guys
<Chatman> but our hour is up
<Chatman> yea thatís real sad J
<Keith Krych> thanks for having us
<Pat Cavins> maybe we can actually answer some ?
<Juls> just west of Pelee...plane went down last week? Or week and a half ago?? the divers can't get to them yet
<Satch_MN> thank you Keith and pat
<russ> thanks Pat and Keith I'm sure going to enjoy your handlines and tapes...Hope to see you on the podium
<ETT> I thought they got he plane out
<Chatman> everyone lets give a big had 2 our 2 guests tonight 
<Driftr> clap
<ETT> clap, clap, clap, clap
<Juls> not yet...only had a camera on them yesterday to confirm all 10 were still in the plane
<T-Mac> clapclapclapclap
<Chatman> Pat Cavins and Keith Krych
<eyebanger(oh)> Good job
<Rippin_eyes> Thanks boys
<Chris Demattio> thanks pat and Keith very informative
<Juls> clap clap clap..thanks guys
<Eyesrfn> clap clap clap
<Pat Cavins> MWC Some RCL
<Keith Krych> any other questions 
<Chatman> see ya guys, Iím hungry lol
<Pat Cavins> and local stuff, they're the toughest
<Driftr> bye everyone


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