[20:03:14] ebijack (mi): Please Welcome our guess tonight, SAM

and JEFF BAKER !!!!!!!!!

[20:03:17] Drift'r: and i winterized

[20:03:22] cb(OH): to good to be true

[20:03:29] Steve (IA): welcome Sam and Jeff

[20:03:31] ebijack (mi): of BAKERMARINE !!!!!

[20:03:42] Baker Marine: Drift'r - You're winterized already?

....QUITTER!

[20:03:48] Drift'r: lol

[20:03:52] Doc (WI): lol

[20:03:56] Rod: central sask first time that I have not had to plug the

truck in , in nov.

[20:04:06] ebijack (mi): :)

[20:04:12] Doc (WI): I haven't winterized in 4 years

[20:04:37] cb(OH): sam what about an extended season with an

I/O

[20:04:40] Drift'r: i'm gonna unwinterize in a few weeks

[20:04:59] busy: I have crusaders, big blocks, have trouble with oil

cooler water heat exchanger crack at union leaking, can that be

braised

[20:04:59] Doc (WI): longest the boat sat was 3 weeks

[20:05:01] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff, can you tell us your regular

procedure to winterize the average out board

[20:05:03] Baker Marine: Well, we're pretty lucky with outboards,

they are a little easier, but the manufacturers recommend you do a

few things as a kind of preventative maintanence

[20:06:11] Doc (WI): Does fogging oil reach all exposed metal in a

motor

[20:06:32] Baker Marine: Well, here's the standard...We stabilize

the fuel, fog the engine, spray WD-40 on all the ignition and

electrical (including under the dash), lube all the grease fittings,

check/grease steering cables, change lower unit lube, pressure

check the lower unit

[20:07:11] Baker Marine: If you run the fogging oil through the intake

- carbs, etc. it will reach all exposed metal.

[20:07:40] Doc (WI): I disagree

[20:07:58] Baker Marine: In what regard?

[20:08:05] Doc (WI): it's got to sag at some point

[20:08:13] Doc (WI): it's oil

[20:08:36] Baker Marine: It depends on what you mean. It will reach

it, but it may not adhere to it.

[20:08:51] Baker Marine: It may drain off, etc.

[20:09:19] Doc (WI): do you think a product that would stop rust

through vapor technology would help

[20:09:55] Rod: you set him up

[20:10:01] Baker Marine: I'm sure there is a "better mousetrap" so

to speak, but we have not had any problems with our standard

procedure in conjunction with good quality oil.

[20:10:42] busy: It works so don't fix it, foggin oil has a good track

record, just my opinion

[20:10:58] Drift'r: i go as far as spraying my whole trailer with

WD-40

[20:11:04] Doc (WI): we're working on a product used by industry to

add to fogging oil

[20:11:29] Rod: how long of storage before you should fog?

[20:11:43] Baker Marine: We actually use OMC SysteMatch D.P.L.

instead of WD-40 because it is actually formulated for

[20:12:13] Baker Marine: sorry - marine use.

[20:12:41] Baker Marine: For heavier duty protection, we use

OMC's 6-in-1 spray.

[20:13:36] Baker Marine: We recommend that if it's going to sit for

more than two months, you should definitely fog it.

[20:13:57] Baker Marine: The cold air can cause condensation

inside the motor, forming water droplets that then freeze...you get

the idea.

[20:14:03] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff, why would anyone want to

spray fogging oil into the carbs, they sit dry from the factory for

longer than they'll ever sit here

[20:14:55] Baker Marine: You're just using the carb to get the foggin

oil to be injested into the motor. OMCs have a special valve that

you use.

[20:16:18] ebijack (mi): for anyone who doesn't know, these guys

have a great web page www.scaryfast.com!!!!!

[20:16:19] Drift'r: what are you recommendations for the 4 stroke

[20:17:24] Baker Marine: Typically, you would take the spark plugs

out, and spray into each hole for a few seconds while it's turning

over. You're really just protecting the cylinders in a 4-stroke

outboard.

[20:17:57] Drift'r: ok thanks

[20:18:09] ebijack (mi): wouldn't that work the same on all 2 strokes

[20:18:15] Doc (WI): thats where this vapor tech. in the oil would be

a plus

[20:18:56] Baker Marine: 2-strokes don't have oil in the front half of

the motor like a 4 stroke. You need to spray the oil in the front on a

two stroke in order to protect the front half of the motor.

[20:19:28] ebijack (mi): what about all the oil that's there that was

entered with the fuel

[20:20:12] Baker Marine: When the fuel evaporates, a lot of the oil

goes with it. Also, cheaper oils and some synthetics will evaporate

even more.

[20:20:15] ebijack (mi): just picking your brains guys :)

[20:20:24] Doc (WI): does corrosion affect the fuel system at all

[20:20:28] Baker Marine: Great questions! I love getting technical.

[20:20:35] Doc (WI): me too

[20:21:08] Swat 1: How do you do this with a EFI or DFI system?

[20:21:14] Baker Marine: I suppose if there is water in the fuel

system, the carburetors would obviously be affected by the

resulting corrosion. Also, steel sleeve motors would be greatly

affected.

[20:21:24] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff, what do you use to clear out

the fogging oil come spring once it's gummed up the carbs

[20:22:34] Baker Marine: EFI/DFI would be the same as a carb

motor. For a Mercury EFI (laser style), they recommend doing it

like the 4 stroke. We do it a little differently.

[20:23:16] Baker Marine: We mix up a fogging oil cocktail and put it

in the water separator fuel filter and run the motor until it really starts

to smoke. That way we know it got through the whole motor.

[20:23:59] Doc (WI): Would you be interested in looking at

something new.

[20:24:06] Swat 1: But there isn't a carb to do it through is there? I'm

looking at the new 115 HP merc DFI and don't know that much

about them.

[20:24:20] Baker Marine: You actually are spraying the fogging oil

into the open venturi, and technically not into the carburetor. Also,

running a fuel stabilizer will not allow the fuel to gum up to begin

with.

[20:24:40] Reefer: do you handle the ficht the same way?

[20:25:10] Baker Marine: I don't have any experience with the DFI

at this point. The owner's manuals are very detailed as to how to

winterize the motor - sorry.

[20:25:30] Swat 1: That's OK thanks anyway

[20:25:34] Baker Marine: FICHT can be sprayed through the

throttle bodys by taking the front airbox off.

[20:25:49] Reefer: what do you consider the best stabilizer?

[20:26:02] ebijack (mi): i know what the manual says, but

experience says different :

[20:26:02] cb(OH): good question!

[20:27:05] Baker Marine: We use a couple of them. Sta-Bil works

well, but I like to use Klotz Octane Booster. It's also a 16 month

stabilizer and burns cleaner than many of the other products out

there.

[20:27:15] Drift'r: does the stabilized fuel make the performance of

the motor drop when you first use it in the spring

[20:28:06] tp: baker i have a 35 force that was in a accident since

then in the heat i will die after trolling the shop says it is vapor

locking could it be

[20:28:17] Baker Marine: We've never checked that. I will say that

unstabilized fuel can DEFINITELY affect the performance in the

spring. :-)

[20:28:56] Reefer: sorry I got in late, so I hope I'm not asking things

you've already covered. I have a 15hp ,4 stroke OMC, anything in

particular to think about in terms of winterizing?

[20:29:12] Baker Marine: How long does the force run, then how

long does it take sitting before it will restart?

[20:29:17] Rod: what if you use to much stabilizer

[20:29:51] Baker Marine: Don't know that you can. I suppose the

motor would not run very well though. That's one reason I like the

Klotz product, it serves a dual purpose.

[20:30:14] ebijack (mi): is the koltz just a octane booster?

[20:30:24] tp: 30 to 40 min.trolling 1-2hours for restart

[20:30:33] Baker Marine: We did cover 4 strokes, but basically

take the spark plugs out, spray some fogging oil in the holes and

crank it over several times.

[20:30:58] Reefer: Thanks.

[20:31:09] Rod: I ask because I have a built in tank and am not

sure how much fuel is left

[20:31:13] Baker Marine: Sounds more like an ignition problem -

maybe heat breakdown. We would suggest taking your hood off

next time and seeing if it will die.

[20:31:21] Drift'r: you do recommend that you change oil & filter too

[20:32:03] tp: thanks baker

[20:32:13] Baker Marine: The Klotz is an octane boost, fuel

stabilizer, anti-knock, moisture absorber, gum/varnish eliminator.

[20:32:52] ebijack (mi): it doesn't hurt the bearings?

[20:33:21] Baker Marine: On the four strokes for sure. That's easy

preventative maintenance.

[20:33:47] Baker Marine: It's an octane boost, it's not a power

booster that will alter the oil/fuel, etc.

[20:34:23] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff, what about the engine

cleaners

[20:35:12] Baker Marine: We love engine tuners, but don't let it sit

for more than a day or so. Be sure to FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS.

Because it eats carbon, it will eat at the pistons if it sits there long

enough.

[20:36:32] ebijack (mi): do you think it's because of the fuels today

that one would need the engine tuners

[20:37:35] Baker Marine: The quality of fuel as gone down, that is a

big reason.

[20:38:08] ebijack (mi): do you recommend the tuners for older 2

strokes also

[20:39:34] Baker Marine: They DEFINITELY need them. You want

to get the carbon off the rings. The older motors were designed

when fuel was better. So if you use today's fuel in those motors,

they need a little assistance.

[20:39:44] Drift'r: my 15 hp 4 stroke seems to perform better on 89

octane than 93 , why is that

[20:40:06] Doc (WI): are you talking re formulated fuels

[20:40:35] Baker Marine: Technically, the lower octane fuel will

burn hotter. Heat equals horsepower up to a point. Running fuel

that over detinates or predetinates will cause your motor to burn

down.

[20:40:51] ebijack (mi): most fuels have oxygenates added to raise

the octane

[20:41:36] Baker Marine: Not to necessarily raise the octane, but to

lower the CFCs which harm the ozone layer. Basically to make the

fuel burn cleaner.

[20:41:55] Drift'r: do you think i should go back to higher octane or

is the 89 ok in the evinrude

[20:42:22] Baker Marine: 89 is fine. 87 might even work better.

Whisper sent to [Baker Marine]: from the fuel guy i know, he says it

boosts the octane rating, they test every load before using on

dyno's

[20:42:35] Doc (WI): even on a 175 ficht

[20:43:00] Whisper from Baker Marine to [ebijack (mi)]: It does

boost octane, but that is more of a result than an intention

[20:43:37] Baker Marine: If the owner's manual says 87 is

recommended, I'd use it. Use the minimum that is recommended.

[20:44:13] Doc (WI): thank you

[20:45:13] Baker Marine: I think the biggest mistake with outboard

owners it's that they assume that they just need to run the water out

of the motor and that's it. By doing the "little things" that we

recommend, the motor/boat will last a lot longer.

[20:46:06] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff, what do you recommend to

due to the hulls

[20:46:22] cb(OH): baker - can you briefly touch on I/O's?

[20:47:01] Reefer: yeh, and batteries?

[20:47:04] Baker Marine: Clean the bottom and check for cracks,

scratches, etc. Otherwise make sure the transom bolts are still tight

and all your running hardware is properly attached.

[20:47:57] Baker Marine: I/O's. We run them in a tub of non-toxic

antifreeze. We also spray the D.P.L. on the electronics, etc, but we

use the non-toxic antifreeze so you just run the boat in the spring

and it doesn't hurt the environment.

[20:48:36] Baker Marine: Batteries. Make sure they're good and

charged in the fall, disconnect the + lead, and spray 'em down with

D.P.L.

[20:49:13] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff, have you found the gell

batteries to be the best way to go?

[20:49:22] cb(OH): Baker - can you extend the season on an I/O?

[20:49:55] Baker Marine: Not necessarily. They're higher

maintenance in the long run. We love 'em in the race boats though

:-)

[20:50:10] Baker Marine: cb, can you elaborate on what you mean

by extending the season.

[20:50:36] Reefer: how so are gel bats. more maint.?

[20:50:51] cb(OH): I'd like to use the boat up till first or second week

of December (Erie)

[20:51:59] Baker Marine: Gel batteries require a different - and

slower - charging process. You can't quick charge them too many

times or they'll burn out.

[20:52:22] ^2old2^ (mi): So i have my boat winterized.. What do i

need to do in the spring to De-Winterize

[20:52:38] Baker Marine: cb, just drain the block and manifolds

after you use it every time. Or if you can, park it in a heated

garage.

[20:53:01] Baker Marine: Is it a 2 stroke outboard, 4 stroke

outboard, or an I/O?

[20:53:12] ^2old2^ (mi): 2 stroke 70 hp

[20:53:12] cb(OH): Thanks - you don't need to worry about lower

unit?

[20:53:23] Reefer: I've heard that the ficht has a reputation of

cooking batteries, how would they treat gel?

[20:53:52] Baker Marine: If you can, run it on a flushette (garden

hose) before taking it to the lake to make sure it starts and runs.

Then go for a boat ride.

[20:54:00] Doc (WI): what about and outboard when its real cold

what should you do at the ramp so nothing freezes

[20:54:22] Baker Marine: As long as there isn't any water in your

lower unit - other problem - it should be fine.

[20:54:51] Doc (WI): does a quick start help

[20:55:06] Doc (WI): just for a few seconds?

[20:55:13] cb(OH): Baker - where are you in Antioch, say off of

173?

[20:55:23] Baker Marine: The motor will be warm. It will drain as

long as you leave it like that. Don't tilt it out too much.

[20:55:54] Baker Marine: cb, exactly. We're about 3 mile south of

173. 1/2 mile west of rte 59 on Grass Lake Rd. in Lupa's Resort.

[20:56:27] cb(OH): got it, will you be open this Saturday?

[20:56:28] Rod: have to go guy it's been fun

[20:56:30] ebijack (mi): sam and jeff have regular tips posted on

their web site

[20:56:30] Baker Marine: Doc, typically they are self draining.

Starting it will help the process along, but it will drain by itself.

[20:56:48] Baker Marine: We're here from 9-4 on Saturday. Look

forward to seeing you if you can make it.

[20:56:53] Doc (WI): thanks that what I thought

[20:57:22] cb(OH): Turkey dinner at in-laws so will stop on way

back to Ohio

[20:57:42] Baker Marine: Give us a call when you get close -

847-838-0066.

[20:57:51] cb(OH): thanks

[20:58:55] ebijack (mi): get in your questions guys

[20:58:58] Drift'r: what do you think of the durability of the 4 strokes

[20:59:14] Baker Marine: I actually have to go - gotta get ready for

tomorrow's trip. But you can get more info from our website -

www.scaryfast.com. You can e-mail us at

bakermarine@ameritech.net or use the prompts in the website. I'll

stick around for a few more minutes thou

[20:59:18] Reefer: Baker: have you had any experience with the

ficht boiling the water out of batteries, or should I say using more

water than normal?

[21:00:07] ebijack (mi): THANKS for your time SAM and JEFF

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[21:00:10] Baker Marine: Four strokes - so far - seem to be

durable. As we speak, we're rigging 2 race boats with 50

horsepower 4 strokes to start a new race class. We'll find out how

durable they are.

[21:00:36] Drift'r: Thanks Sam & Jeff

[21:00:47] ebijack (mi): are they production motors? :)

[21:00:57] Doc (WI): Thanks guys I'll be in touch

[21:01:01] Baker Marine: Sounds like a problem with your charging

system more so than the difference in intake. Thanks a lot and

everybody have a safe holiday. And yes, they are stock right out

of the box!

[21:01:11] Baker Marine: Good night.

[21:01:17] Reefer: thanks guys, happy holidays to you and your's!

[21:01:19] ebijack (mi): thanks again bakers !!!!!

[21:01:30] tp: thanks guys i well try your suggestions