4 Stroke vs. 2 Stroke

[St Croix Boy]

Was at a local dealer today. They sell all major motor brands. Merc. Yammy. Johnson. Evenrude. Honda. ( Talking about 100hp on up.)

Dealer said the Evenrude DFI 2 Stroke was by far the best motor when it comes to Efficiency, Performance, and Dependability. This is because it has newest technology. He was so in love with this motor I thought he was going to break out in song.

As far as 4 Strokes go Johnson was by far the best, due to sequential multiport fuel injection.

Honda was good but heavy.

Yammy and Merc were just OK due to old throttle body EFI technology.

His rating system is totally opposite of how I was thinking. Thought Yammy was the way to go.

Help!! What do you gus think?

[Aaron-IN]

I think the guy had a boat load of Evenrude and Johnsons he needed to get rid of. For reliability and performance the four S Yamaha and Hondas are the way to go.

[Koldfront Kraig]

Do a little research.

Hondas aren't as heavy as people think. Most are lighter than other comparable 4 strokes.

[Fitz1131]

I have a Honda BF130 and a Yamaha T8; both 4 strokes. I wouldn't go back to a 2 stroke if they gave me one. The Yamaha weights for the 4 stroke vs. HPDI are within 20 pounds for the 150 HP. Ditto the thought that the dealer has the 2 strokes in stock.

Fitz

[punch1]

I am sure that you'd be happy going with any of the reputable manufacturers of motors. Mercury, Johnson, Evinrude, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, tec. I personally have had Honda and Suzuki four-strokes and have had no complaints with either. For the most part, the replies you'll get will be someone saying I have this motor and would reccomend it. I'd like to hear from someone who says I have this motor and wouldn't reccomend it because...

Patrick Wunsch

"You should have been here last week!"

[T-Mac]

They are all good nowdays.

He obviously was interested in getting you into a Bombardier product for some reason. But, you left with some confused information on the EFI systems.

Yamaha EFI on the fourstroke F-115 and larger is multi-port fuel injection, not throttle body.

Also-
The fuel injection on the 2 stroke Yamaha HPDI and Merc OptiMax is direct injection. Yamaha and Merc still do make some throttle body type EFI 2 strokes. But these would cost considerably less than any DFI 2 stroke, or EFI four stroke.

[Das Boot 3]

Oh Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!
here we go again :o
Lets see here......
4 strokes are slow and heavy and $$$$
2 stroke DI blow up and $$$$$
2 stroke EFI/carb suck down gas and oil emit stink and smoke
Fogetaboutit
You are best off making your choice on your needs,budget,warranty,and a dealer you trust. For evey opinion you get on the one somebody loves, there will be someone with a horror story or his reason why his is better. There is no such thing as a bad 2004 100 hp+ 4S or DI on the market. A 2S carb or EFI will be less $ up front that a DI or 4S may or may not ever make up in fuel savings depending on how many hours you put on your boat. Getting a 4S or DI will have a positive impact on how well your boat retains it's value if you ever sell or trade. My last two motors have been a Evinrude Ficht and a Yamaha 4S and I have nothing bad to say about either one - both great motors. Good luck with your choice and happy boating.
DB3

[Wanker]

Are you putting this on a Yuppie boat?

[Michman]

I have a 2001 225 HP Evinrude DFI engine and I have had absolutely no problems of any kind. By the way, J.D. Power recently picked the Evinrude ahead of Yamaha and Mercury in the two stroke catagory for performance, reliability and customer satisfaction.

[MudflatsJack]

The last I looked, water has really changed much. The major brands will always push the latest tech, with this comes problems and fixing the bugs. Pick out a motor thats been on the market in the last few years which has a STABLE history of minor issues. New Tech is great and i love to read about it, I prefer Yamaha, I can get service in Canada or mainstreet. Let us know what you bought!

[jvbigo]

I own a Honda,


J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Yamaha Sweeps Outboard Engine Awards


New Boat Owners Report Fewest Problems
With Four-Stroke EFI Engines

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 4, 2002

WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—Yamaha ranks highest in both two- and four-stroke outboard engine categories, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Marine Engine Competitive Information StudySM released today.

The study is based on responses of nearly 12,000 consumers who purchased a new boat during the 2001 calendar year. Boat owners were asked about their on-the-water experience with their new outboard, sterndrive or inboard boat engines. Study results were calculated using an engine performance index, which includes eight engine attributes: ease of starting when engine is cold; ease of starting when engine is hot; quietness of the engine at cruising speed; ability of boat to accelerate rapidly; cruising speed of boat; engine fumes; cruise time/range between fuel stops; and the standard warranty coverage of the engine.

Yamaha achieves the highest index score among two-stroke outboard engines, with high marks for reliability, ease of starting, and ability to accelerate rapidly, as well as warranty coverage and claim handling. Evinrude, with high marks for engine cruising speed, and Mercury, with strong performance in fuel economy and low engine fumes, follow Yamaha in the two-stroke engine segment rankings.

In the four-stroke engine segment, Yamaha has strong performance in nearly every key engine attribute measured, particularly in the ability to accelerate rapidly and for cruising speed. Honda and Evinrude follow Yamaha in the four-stroke engine rankings. Honda receives high marks for quietness at cruising speed and low engine fumes.

Since there are only two sterndrive engine manufacturers and three inboard engine manufacturers, no index scores were calculated or awards given in these segments. However, Volvo Penta performs particularly well in the sterndrive segment. Volvo is noted for ease of starting, rapid acceleration, cruising speed, fuel economy and warranty coverage. All three of the ski/wakeboard engine manufacturers—PCM, Indmar and Mercruiser—fare well in the inboard segment. PCM, the engine used in Correct Craft ski boats, performs particularly well in ease of starting, rapid acceleration and warranty coverage.

Of the three major engine categories measured, consumers are most pleased with inboards, followed by sterndrives and outboards. Owners of ski/wakeboard boats equipped with inboard motors are not only significantly more satisfied with their engines, but also report less than half the number of problems than did owners of sterndrive- and outboard-powered boats.

One issue boat owners repeatedly raised in the study is that the engine doesn’t have enough power for the size of the boat or for their overall boating needs.

"The study clearly indicates that consumers who select their own engine are significantly more satisfied with their propulsion than those who opt for the base boat-engine package," said Eric Sorensen, director of the marine practice at J.D. Power and Associates. "The importance of installing an engine with sufficient power cannot be overstated because it impacts so many elements of the boating experience. An underpowered boat will be a disappointment for the owner every time it’s used and reflects poorly on both the engine and boat brands."

The study indicates that engine warranty coverage, which includes the way warranty claims are handled, rates lower than any other engine-related attribute.

"Handling warranty claims is one of the most important attributes in the minds of boat owners," Sorensen said. "People who buy boats also buy automobiles, and they’re used to a much higher standard in both service and warranty-related performance. If marine engine manufactures want to build or even maintain customer loyalty, this is one key area to pay attention to. Given the importance to the owner, there are many manufacturers that need to make a concerted effort to improve in this area."

Regarding quality, one-third of outboard-powered boat owners report engine-related problems. Owners of new boats with four-stroke electronic fuel injection (EFI) outboard engines report the fewest number of engine problems, while owners of boats with two-stroke carburated outboard engines report the most problems, according to the study.

Consumers who purchased a new boat equipped with a two-stroke outboard engine report twice as many problems as those who purchased a boat equipped with a four-stroke outboard engine. In general, the study finds that for both two- and four-stroke engines, the larger the engine, the fewer the reported problems.

"Among the five technologies used in outboard engines, the quality level of four-stroke EFI and carburated engines is unparalleled," Sorensen said. "In additional to quality, four-stroke engines are cleaner and quieter than two-stroke engines and are very fuel efficient. The fact that they weigh and cost more, and don’t accelerate as rapidly as two-strokes is not much of a deterrent for many boat owners."

Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is a global marketing information services firm operating in key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting, training and customer satisfaction. The firm’s quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. Media e-mail contact: michael.greywitt@jdpa.com or john.tews@jdpa.com.

No advertising or other promotional use can be made of the information in this release without the express prior written consent of J.D. Power and Associates. www.jdpa.com

# # #


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©2004 J.D. Power and Associates. All Rights Reserved_

[Gordon Gecko]

If he is, he should get a yuppie motor - the new Verado.

[Das Boot 3]

A 2 year old report on a 3 year old study is good because...............?????
A newer report might be of more use
DB3

[woodchuck1]

Lots of good motors out there today. Last year I was in Alaska and it seemed like 90% of the outboards on the coast were Honda's. It verified my experience with my Honda. Very reliable.

[Rotormec]

EVINRUDE RECEIVE "HIGHEST IN CUSTOMER SATISFACTION WITH TWO-STROKE ENGINES" FROM J.D. POWER AND ASSOCIATES 2003 MARINE ENGINE COMPETITIVE INFORMATION STUDY SM

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, October 30, 2003 – Bombardier Recreational Products announced today that its Evinrude Direct Injection (DI) outboard engine brand ranked "Highest in Customer Satisfaction with Two-Stroke Engines" in the J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Marine Engine Competitive Information StudySM.

Customers are extremely satisfied with Evinrude outboard engines, which achieved the highest index score among two-stroke outboard engines, including carbureted and Direct Injection (DI) engines. Evinrude DI engines received high marks for:

Ease of starting;
Quietness of the engine at cruising speed;
Ability for boat to accelerate rapidly;
Cruising speed of boat;
Standard warranty coverage of the engine.

Evinrude also performed especially well in:

Engine emissions;
Cruise time/range between fuel stops.

"Receiving this award is a real triumph. It's a testament to the steps we took to perfect direct injection technology through Bombardier management discipline and innovation," said Roch Lambert, vice president and general manager of the Boats and Outboard Engines Division. "And it's important to point out that the engines in this study represent the first year of Evinrude production under Bombardier's leadership.

"This means that consumers have experienced the durability, quality and reliability of Evinrude outboard engines, and they clearly appreciate the impact we've made in the outboard engine market since Bombardier purchased the Evinrude and Johnson brands," added Lambert.

In addition to its existing DI line, Bombardier recently released its new Evinrude E-TEC™ outboard engine technology, which is available in 40, 50, 75 and 90 horsepower (hp) models for the first year. Evinrude E-TEC provides excellent power and torque, while being environmentally responsible and providing a unique and pleasant Evinrude signature sound. The entire Evinrude line-up ranges from 40 to 250 hp, and includes the High Output versions.

Headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., J.D. Power and Associates is a global marketing information services firm operating in key business sectors including market research, forecasting, consulting, training and customer satisfaction. The firm's quality and satisfaction measurements are based on responses from millions of consumers annually. Media e-mail contact: michael.greywitt@jdpa.com or john.tews@jdpa.com.

Bombardier Recreational Products designs, develops, builds, distributes and markets utility vehicles, Rotax™ engines and karts, Ski Doo® and Lynx® snowmobiles, Bombardier™ ATVs, Sea Doo® watercraft and sport boats, Johnson® and Evinrude® outboard engines, as well as Evinrude direct injection and Evinrude E TEC™ technologies.

Bombardier Inc., a diversified manufacturing and services company, is a world-leading manufacturer of business jets, regional aircraft, rail transportation equipment and motorized recreational products. It also provides financial services and asset management in business areas aligned with its core expertise. Headquartered in Montréal, Canada, the Corporation has a workforce of some 75,000 people and manufacturing facilities in 25 countries throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia-Pacific. Its revenues for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, 2003 stood at $23.7 billion Cdn. Bombardier shares are traded on the Toronto, Brussels and Frankfurt stock exchanges (BBD, BOM and BBDd.F).

SM J.D. Power and Associates 2003 Marine Engine Competitive Information Study. Study based on responses from a total of 10,734 owners of 2002 and early 2003 model-year boats. www.jdpower.com

[Depth Finder]

When in doubt and when there is no significant difference.....BUY AMERICAN...it keeps people working ...YOUR job may depend on it in some small way......

[Matches]

Depth Finder, good advice. Could you tell us which ones are 100% American made?

[Matches]

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in these J.D. Power and Associates surveys. I could be wrong, but I believe these corporations are paying them to do these studies, and wording the questions that are in favor of the ones paying their fees. If you check into who is paying their fee to do these surveys, I believe you will find out they too are the ones coming out on top. They are simply a company you can hire to word surveys so you come out on top and then use that info. for promotion.

[moon]

>Depth Finder, good advice. Could you tell us which ones are
>100% American made?
>
I have a 58 johnson. i think that was made by american hands.

[John K]

Matches,
You are exactly right. Anyono who has ever been polled by a political organization knows that. Questions can be worded to get the response you are looking for.

[Das Boot 3]

Pleeeze!
So we are to assume that in 2001 Yamaha paid off JD Powers and in 2003 Evinrude ponied up the $$$ to get rated #1?
So all consumer polling is bought and paid for before it has the questions formulated?
I would think that Yamaha would have enough financial resources to chalk up a win every year. :o
DB3

[PJM]

John K


Just to add another point to this topic, look at Motor Trend car of truck of the year. Most of the time it is a vehicle that has no history because its brand new and the dealers and the people run with it. Also Consumer Report is another good one that will rate a product number one and then the next year not even mention it. Bombardiar has done a great job with Johnson and Evinrude. Prior to them owning the company there was some problems with some of there direct injected motors. Bombardiar seems to have a handle on the problem and the motors seem to have no problems. But there was a lot of damage done prior to them owning them and as time goes buy I hope people who use to own them go back and try them again.

[MrWalleye73]

That JD Power seal of approval sells stuff. I still look for the Good Housekeeping seal of approval!!! haha. I don't think BOMB had that kind of dough to lay out to pay off anyone. They are putting lots of money back into research and improvements. I've seen their factory and know some of their employees. They are a marked improvement over OMC, which some of these same people used to work for them. Saying that, we all hear horror stories about all engines. The market is way too competitive for someone to be making inferior or crappy motors these days. I had a choice of a Yamaha, Merc or FICHT back in '99. Opti or FICHT. I went FICHT because I wanted DFI and liked the old Johnson I had. I'm happy with my choice, and probably would have been saying the same about a Yammie or Merc. It's all about the best deal and what you feel you like and heck, even what looks good on the boat. Just make sure a dealer is willing to work with you on setup, especially props. The wrong prop can make one second guess a motor choice because they think it's not as fast as it should be etc. Sorry, I was referring to 2 strokes throughout this post. I know little about the new big 4's, only small 4's that I have experience with. Enjoy the tormenting decision making process...I know I sweated it for 2 weeks before ordering, and a while waiting for the boat to arrive!!!!
Chris

[whofan]

Just a quick note; Johnson 4 stroke and Susuki are one the same.
Excellent motors,right now I don`t think any company can afford
to build a substandard motor. A lot has changed in the last few years.A couple years ago there was a panic to get a fuel efficent outboard motor out whether it be two or four stroke. Mercury & OMC rushed a bit (I think) to be first. Mercury fared better than omc but both had problems.We the consumer paid the price too.I felt bad to see OMC fall. The Japanese companies always seem to look ahead. What little is left of American companies (Mercury) can`t let this happen again if they are going to survive.

[Rotormec]

What makes J.D. Power consumer ratings so different?

Since 1968, J.D. Power and Associates has been conducting quality and customer satisfaction research based on survey responses from millions of consumers worldwide. We do not rely on "expert opinion." Our product and service rankings in no way reflect the opinions or preferences of the firm, and we do not review, judge or test products and services ourselves.

We represent the voice of the customer by translating survey responses into information that companies worldwide use to improve quality and customer satisfaction, as well as to help consumers make better decisions. J.D. Power and Associates has developed and maintains one of the largest, most comprehensive historical customer satisfaction databases in existence, which includes feedback on virtually all aspects of the shopping, buying, and product and service ownership experience.