Arctic Cat Snowmobile for Ice Fishing

[Mille Lacs Guy]

I'm looking at buying a 1996 Arctic Cat 440 Z with 900 miles on it for Ice Fishing and occassional trail use. The dealer is asking $1695; is that a good price? The sled is supposed to be in mint condition, I haven't been able to look at it yet. Any other comments on this snowmobile would be appreciated.

Mille Lacs Guy

[AquaMan]

Though the price sounds good for that year, I would question whether the 440 will give you enough power to haul a fish house or sled behind in the event you need to. If you are strapping a bucket on the back and heading down the lake, this sled will run fine. Nice light rig that trails well, also. But if you plan to pull an Otter through new snow, you will be way under powered. I believe this is a fan cooled which will run more trouble free for a long time.

Check the track and belt for cracking. Look at the grease points to see if it was maintained. Check the slides for signs of excessive wear. The 440 is a very popular racing class motor and this might have been a racer???? If the sled is in good shape physically and mechanically, the price is fair. Ya might want to dicker down a few hundred. Otherwise be sure you have the power to meet your needs.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It all begins and ends at the water's edge...

[River_eye]

The z 440 is a smaller fan-cooled sled that's main intent would be for trail use. I wouldn't worry about it being raced, the liquid cooled 440's are usually reserved for that, but if it was, then you'd be able to tell just by glancing at it. That is extremely low milage for a sled of that year. It should be in mint condition, and if it's not, somthing's fishy. The price is right too. Try to get as much history on the sled as you can.

Like Aquaman said, it's not workhorse, and will probably only pull a sled up to three or four hundred pounds on a packed surface and one rider. In loose snow, much less.

[TBO/MN]

I run a 440 liquid in a Panther (1996) and it pulls my Otter Sled with the greatest of ease. I have also pulled my partners Otter with mine, and him on the back and have had no problems. We fish the LOTW alot in the winter, and travel lots of miles on the ice, have never had a lick of trouble. My sled has the trail suspension and a 2 up seat, and that 440 liguid has plenty, probably to much, power. I just wish I had reverse and electric start..starting to work on an old fat man like me. :-)

Good Fishin'
TBO/MN

[AquaMan]

TBO, you are correct, a 440 Panther 2up will work fine, but this guy is looking at the 440Z which is lighter, smaller sled then the Panther. The 440Z is better equiped for the trails and light duty hauling. My father-in-law has the same sled you do with reverse and electric start. I was impresed with its power, but he still struggles in new deep snow compared to the 500 and 600 long tracks. He spins the track out very easily when pulling a house out to new spots. Firm pack is no problem, though.

It really depends on what he will tow and with what frequency. If he will be towing all day in new or deep snow, he will regrete the 440Z. But if he will be doing a little towing and a little trail riding, have at it. The price is right. Bring on the snow!

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It all begins and ends at the water's edge...

[TBO/MN]

Yes, you are right about all, I was just trying to give some information on the 440cc engine and the Arctic Cat sled. There are definitely better sleds out there than mine, ie..600 Bearcat :-)

Sorry if I confused anyone.
Good Fishin'
TBO/MN

[CJW]

Look up http://www.snowmobileauction.com. Go to auction pricing and you can look up what they sold for at the White Star auction last year and this year. That will give you some insight at whether the price is fair or not. Craig

[Mother]

The only thing an Artic Katt is good for is to sink it and
mark the spot as a crappie crib.You decide the pronunciation.

On the serious side - The sled is not large enough to haul or pull
with. Go to at least a 500cc with a long track at minimum.
Do not buy an Artic cat unless you want to work on it more
than you want to ice fish and ride . They are not reliable and
it will start to rattle apart on you !!
If you want pure fit and finish with extreme reliabilty and
longevity buy Yamaha followed by Ski-Doo then a close third
a Polaris. Artic Cat's may race well but, they don't stay together.

Mother

[curt quesnell]

who ever listened to anything mother ever said. and this
reminds me why....

first of all
you need to purchase the special "rattle apart" option if you
want that feature.

second of all
everyone still making snowmobiles make very good ones. you need
to get the features you want and that should help determine which
brand you buy.

if you get too small a machine to do the work you
want you may not be satisfied. but, if you get a good deal and
realize up front there will be limitations, i say call it a
starter sled and have a blast.

third of all
brand loyalty in snowmobiles is hundreds of times worse than trucks
or boats and motors....visit a snowmobile message board sometime
if you want to read the masters of bashing.

that was pretty good mother getting some digs in on the cats...he must be pretty smart and knowledgable about snowmobiles.


curt quesnell

[TBO/MN]

Curt,

Mother must be a regular on one of those snomo boards, she seems to know how to bash really well.

For those of you that are interested, I bought my Arctic Cat to work, and it does that, never complains, starts second pull every time, doesn't rattle, gets good fuel economy, rides well, and carries my fat *ss around from hole to hole. Could I ask for more, and be fair about it, nope!! She is 6 years old (60 in snomo years), and just a pretty as the day I married her.

Good Fishin'
TBO/MN

[Mille Lacs Guy]

Mother,
What kind of house are you talking about pulling? A 10X12 permanent? Or a medium Otter sled house? Here's a question for ya if know so much. Whats the difference between a 440 cc snowmobile motor and a 400 cc class four-wheeler? Everyone says you need either a 400 or 500 cc 4-wheeler to pull anything? So why can't a 440 snowmobile pull. And I do realize a 600 will pull more, but a 440 can pull things too, like a medium otter sled. If my knowledge serves me correct 400 cc's is 400 cc's be it in a 4 wheeler or a snowmobile. I realize there could be different carburation and other features that make a difference in Horsepower. The CC's are all relative. In snowmobiles a 440 is small because they go up to 800 cc's. In 4-wheelers a 400 is big because the biggest one's are 500 or 600's. I think a 440 cc Arctic Cat will work fine for my use.

Also, where can I get a 600 Long track, like you mentioned, with 900 miles on it for $1695?

And if you want to bash products go do it on the snowmobile page with the rest of the 14 year olds.

Everyone else thanks for giving a honest opinion on what you thought of the machine.

[eyewitness]

First off, mother has no right slamming Cats. I have relatives working for BOTH Arctic Cat and polaris and relatives who race or have raced for both as well. Competition has done its job in the snowmobile forum as all of the big four all make very good machines now. They all fall apart if not maintained, and they all work nice when taken care of. To get to the main subject, will a 440 fan powered sled be good for what you want to do? Throwing the financial issue aside for a minute and all things being equal, no it's really not powered enough to do towing with. maybe the kids on a sled for 10 minutes here and there, but not for pulling a fish house around in anything more than hard pack conditions. The difference in CC's between ATV's and sleds is a no comparison deal really. The drive trains are very different between the two(save the belt drive two stoke models which hardly anyone runs that much anymore), and also almost all of the newer utility type ATV's are 4 strokes. Two strokes and four strokes have completely different torque/HP characteristics and it really isn't an apples to apples comparison. That being the case, a smaller four stroke model like a 350 or 400 CC FOUR STROKE ATV will do a much better job at pulling a load than a 340 or 440 TWO STROKE snowmobile. Pulling too big a load on an underpowered sled in anything but hardpack will not only be hard on the motor, but will go through belts more than you'd like. If your budget allows, I would at least go with a 500 CC sled. Studs also make a monumental difference when on the lake or in slushy conditions. If you've ever been stuck in slush you won't ever want to go through it again. Can you say "heart attack"? All kidding aside, if your budget only allows you to buy in that price range, go for it. Better to have than to have not. The 440Z is a fine sled and although not the best choice for towing it will work. Good luck on your decision. BTW, I might happen to have a 97' 440XC in pretty much mint condition with windsheild bag and tow hitch already installed for a very fair price. Email me and I can give you the details.

[CJW]

Hey mother everywhere I snowmobile, and that would be 2000 miles a year, its always all the brands you mentioned that I see being towed in to the shop. They are all the same if its mechanical its gonna break sometime, no matter what kind. Especially if you don't have any common sense on upkeep. Funny you mentioned yamaha I towed one of those in last year, with a blown motor, 2 weeks old. I've been on all of them and you know what momma there ain't a d*m bit of difference in any of them. None of them break anymore than the rest. So take your brand loyalty to the snowmobile boards where it belongs. Craig

[Mother]

Folks ,

We seem to have a few issues here . Many of which are based in not
knowing what a sled is designed to do and product loyalty.
I'll start with a bit of a background .I have in riding since I was 4 yrs. I'm now 35.One older brother who has been a sled mechanic and
a widely known race mechanic to many aftermarket perf. co. I have
trail rode all over MN,Wis and the UP of Mich. Drag raced and
backcountry mountain rode West Yellowstone area , Jackson hole
and the Big Horns.
My family and many of our family friends have been life long riders.
The depth of experience and sleds is vast. We have owned them all
raced them all, trail rode and the ultimate test of machine -
Backcountry Mountain riding.In trying to find the best sleds
overall to ride with minimal maintenance and downtime , their
are many arguements and endless debates ,but in the end it comes
down to real world observation. The machine that just is assembled
the finest and offers the best reliability and a WARRANTY that
nobody can match is the Yamaha - though not the fastest nor the
greatest in a single catagory , but it does everything well.
Making for the best of all needs.Next we have the Ski-Doo and
Polaris both making great strides in the past 5 - 10 yrs.
The Ski-doo mountain riding capability is unequaled - a dream
to ride in powder and will out hill climb basically anything
even if it's giving up HP. As trail sled , it seems a bit quirky
in ergonomics and trail riding feel and are very fast and highly
tuneable - motor and suspesion wise .
Polaris , hands down overall. The #'s out there don't lie. The
best trail riding sled made. Smooth, stable ,ease of control ,
nothing but confidence inspiring for the novice all the way up to
the most aggressive rider.Mountain riding , it comes in at a close
second to the Ski-doo's just not quite as refined.
Now we get to the T-cat's as canadians call'em or the Cat's.
The racing pedigree is inargueable, but a sled must do much more
than race to be good. We need a good level of overall fit and finish
general reliability - fact #3 in sales the past few yrs. and #1
in warranty claims - mostly that pesky thing called an engine seems
to fail . The front suspension is the finest made and the only
maker of the double wishbone . While the rear is on par with the
others , this is where it ends . The engine noise / clutch noise
is just unacceptable . The general components and fit , finish
is sub-standard to the other manufacturers . Go to few dealers
and take a look under the hood , and see for yourselves.Yet they
want the same price for their machines.
As a mountian sled this is where the big joke lies , it is not
even on the same page as the other manufacturers, the sled is
almost unrideable when you go from it to any of the others.
Poor balance , you fight it all the time and it won't climb
the bunnyhill much less the the backside of Sheep mountian just
outside Yellowstone.

Now it seems some people don't understand the HP. needs of a sled
a tracked vehicle compared to a wheeled vehicle we are going to have a hard time. Simlpe try to rotate a track by hand and then a tire.
That done look at the mass , angles and bearing surface a sleds
engine must overcome to drive the track - this is why you can't
compare HP/engine sizes to an ATV. Pulling , hauling and general
riding .A small engined short track will not give you the power
and track area to pull/haul in any other snow condition
besides hardpack. A large engine mated with a long track will give
you the needed traction an floatation in most all snow conditions
encountered.Saving your back .. not getting stuck and a smoother
ride and much more freedom to in different areas/states.

Sir - look around , their are many sleds to choose from in
the want ads and other sources.I think you can find a much better
sled to fit your needs in the price range of $1600.00-$2000.00.

Mother

ps - I give the Cats guys a hard because they've earned it and
have firmly kicked Polaris' riders off the hill -
Of being the biggest pains in the #ss.
Just because Blair Morgan could do it, does'nt mean you guys
can do it. Funny ,he now races for Ski-Doo.

[Mother]

Mill lacs guy

I have ridden on Mill lacs , I assume thats where you will be fishing . The many ice dams , slush, drifts and plow embankments
These are the reasons for a long track . To navigate them at a safe
speed - being slow for the ice dams,plow embankments and drifts.
Speed and power for slush especially.
It is very difficult for a snowmobile to
pull and /or haul in powder.
Power is always good , just like your boat . You may not
run WOT all the time , but it's nice to have.It will give you
much greater flexibility .

Mother

[curt quesnell]

well mille lacs guy

hope this has been helpful. you may decide to keep shopping or
pick up what might be a real good deal.

to you and all others wondering about snowmobiles, i hope you
realize that some posts and posters need to be taken with a
grain of salt.

ride snowmobiles safe and smart...and please dont be so dumb as
to let small children ride by themselves. a tragedy waiting to
happen.


curt quesnell

[River_eye]

A liquid cooled engine will always have more power than a fan cooled engine.

[TBO/MN]

Thanks for all the info.....If you would have given the information first that you gave here.... people would have thought better of your post. Then you wouldn't have had to bad-mouth any products.

A young lady once told me that she makes a post, then reads it, and if it sounds like it's bashing something/someone, she hits the "RESET" button. Good advise! (thanks Juls ;-) )

Good Fishin' everyone
TBO/MN

[THUMPER]

I run a Polaris Indy Lite GT with a 340. I pull sleighs of wood, shacks, moose you name it. The type of sleigh you pull makes a world of difference and the long track. CCs are only a part of the equation. Whether you have a 340 or a 600 makes no difference if the rest of the formula is not there. We prepare our trails if we do a heavy pull. We will break trail and then go through the area a number of times to have a good base. Then we allow it to freeze. Overnight is best but a few hours is a great help. We will never stress our machines. On large ice shacks we put two sleds on them. I do not care how much power you have if your base is poor and not prepared you are going nowhere.
The bulk of our pulling is done by small machines such as above. The big heavy trail machines are best left there.

[CJW]

I in return have the same kind of credentials which I don't have to list for gratification. With freinds being in the business longer than you have been alive mom. Been riding before you were even a wet dream in your real momma's eye. I'm not bashing any sled just saying write that kinda post where people want to see it. Oh and yamaha's were junk when they first appeared, it took alot of years for them to get good. Of which they have become. Cats may need to work on their quality but they seem to always be at the front of the pack with new technology coming out every year that will only help all manufacturers. They seem to push all the others to get better also.
Again not bashing any sled each brings its own quality forward. But none are perfect as you stated. Craig

[Roger Mayer]

Ok ya might laugh at this but it NEVER stranded me. I have a 1972 Artic Cat Panther. Original everything including hood and seat cover......yes the one with the snow lepard dots! This thing may not pull much but it gets me from point a to b and back to a.

It was said that Arctic Cats rattle apart.......Well after almost 30 years you think it would but it didn't!

The best work horse snow mobile I have ever seen was a machine called a Sno-Bug. Any of you ever hear of that machine?

Roger Mayer.

[CJW]

Yep some of the older sleds were built like tanks. Such as one I had first AMF Ski-Daddler. Sno - bugs were a tank just like the AMF. Just don't get them stuck!!!! I could go anywhere though had an 18 inch track. Wouldn't get you there very fast but it got you there. And pull man could they pull a load. Had the Rupps, Chapparells,Mercury,and all the brands sold now. Had one of those rattle aparts like mother claims a 1979 Pantera Had it 20 years and the only thing I fixed was a blown motor that was my fault for not cleaning the old gas out of. It had sat for 2 years while I played on the newer sleds I have. Had 12,165 miles on it when I sold it to a freind. Its still going with only the usual fixes. Belts,filters, plugs etc. Anyone remember the brand Argo that were built?? Had one of those too! Craig

[Fish-on]

A Ski-Daddler! Boy does that bring back memories! We had one back in the late 1960s/early 1970s and I drove that tub all over the Cascade mountains of Northcentral Washington State because Dad wouldn't let me take the new Arctic Cats out by myself. I was only 10-12 years old at the time. My brother and I called it the "Yukmobile" But we put a lot of miles on it. Never had to walk home. Boy those were the days.

[Nubbinbuck]

Ok, here is a question for you....
When I was a young lad (in the mid 70's), my dad bought me a really old tank to putt around on our property. Name was 'Fox Track' I believe. Was that an ancestor to the Artic Cat? Anyone else remember these?

[Fish-on]

I never heard of it but a lot of different snowmobile makes popped up back then. It was definitely not an ancestor to the arctic cat. I was riding an arctic cat ten years before that.

[ron]

Been using a 370Z on saginaw bay for two years now and never had any problems pulling two man ice shanty and gear. Even pulled a four wheeler through the deep snow till we got off shore a ways. Only problems from pulling resulted from not having studs on the bare ice. I think a 440Z would make a great ice fishing machine. Has anyone come up with solution to burning up slides when there is a lack of snow? Other than buying a quad!

[Mother]

Yes-

Their a few aftermarket companies that sell "Scrapers" which
mount on the bulkhead/belly pan ahead of the track or on the inner
side of the skis , I can't remember which ?
Also their are additional "bogie/idler wheel" kits that you can
bolt into the sleds rear susp. skid. reducing the load on the
slides.
Finally you can replace the stock slides with rather expensive
graphite "super slippery" slides . They are designed for high speed
running on ice for "Racing" or ultra-hard pack conditions with
very low running resistance and high operating temperature
capability.

Mother

[ron]

Thanks for the tips. rc