How does Tournament Fishing Help The Resource???

[Gary Korsgaden]

I ask this question to countless tournament anglers and frankly don't recieve much of a answer. What positive impact does tournament angling have for the resource??? I am sincerely interested in what everyones take is on this.

Thanks

[steve fellegy]

i have debated that question countless hours. first glance is that competitive fishing has created so many good anglers within the GENERAL FISHING PUBLIC, that indirectly it creates too much pressure on the resource. that said...competitive angling has created more (forced) resource management innovation along with educating the general fishing public on fishery management and direct involvement, as fishermen, in that process. walleye fisheries all around the country have been created and successfully managed because of competitive fishing originating the public interest.
so, as usual, there are pro's and con's. if we took away the effects of competitive angling, sending the fishing public backward twenty years as well as fishery management, would we accept that?
bottem line...competitve angling can and should be a piece of the puzzle that keeps fishing as good as it is today for years to come.

#49

[John in MN]

Has anyone ever said that tournament fishing helps the resource? I think increased fishing pressure, in any way, cannot do anything beneficial to a fishery, unless it is to cut down on the number of stunted fish like Oahe. Now I didn't say increased fishing pressure harms a fishery because some fisheries can support more fishing pressure. Over a long period of time, though, a fishery could be harmed.
One benefit of tournaments I have thought of is the information that the Natural Resources' biologists collect from the fish before they are released can be important for their overall evaluation of a fishery.

[Box]

I'm not a pro in any sense of the word (although biology and enviromental studies degrees, that I am not really using right now...), but here is my take. All these good pro anglers are not killing the fish they take. Yes, some will die, but imagine if all these guys and gals ate their limits???... Now they may not be at the same lake at the same time like a tourney, but more likely they would be heading to where the bite was best. You see that in local anglers all the time.

Pros (both bass and walleye) have promoted catch and release for some time. If it wasn't for pros and the catch and release ethic they have brought to the fore front of everyday fishing, I would have most likely kept many, many more and bigger fish than I do now. I like eating fish, and I think everybody should eat some, but because of watching pros release them, and learning more about Catch and release over the years, I do much, much more of it now, releasing anything over 24", and many smaller than that.

As s.f. mentioned, the forced resource management and other monies that tournies bring to an area for fishies is not a small amount. Also, you often see tournies where the catch is really not that great :)

So... like I said, I don't know much, but I feel that tournies and pros have helped to make me personally a better resource manager on a micro-scale. Multiply that by my brother, my Dad, my buddies... and then multiply that by how many average guys like me there are. 20 years ago I would have kept every walleye I caught. Now I have fun watching them swim away after a picture, with a few in the pan.

Good question :)
-Box

[Gary ?Korsgaden]

Box you have a better grasp on the issue than most experienced tournament anglers have. Thanks for your insight.

Gary

[Blazeorange]

You could debate the pros and cons forever in this situation but it kind of rivals along with the idea of catch and release. If everybody threw back what they caught, how many fillet knife makers would have to close their doors tomorrow? How many Emergency Room Doctors would lose their jobs because of guys who injure themselves filleting the fish they kept (meaning they clean fish as poorly as I do)? No matter which way you look at it, tournaments or no tournaments, each has its own impact on society, the economy and the environment. Blaze.

[T-Mac]

Tournament fishing has had an impact on the level of interest in fishing in general and to a greater degree for certain species of fish. How that translates into being benifcial to the rescource, gets a bit hazy, but it has generated more license sales, more "wallop-breaux" dollars and more money for other venues that promote the betterment of the rescource.
Furthermore, ethics and respect for the rescource are at much higher levels now than in the past, in part due to the preachings of tournament anglers and tournament organizers.
In some states a portion of the entry fee goes to some sort of "conservation fund" which is, in turn, spent on the rescource.

I'd guess the biggest problem we all deal with as fisherman is the faction of "anti's" out there that seem to be growing in numbers. Thus, if tounaments get more people to join in our passion for fishing than to fight against our pursuit, then the rescource wins, because we whom use it, pay the bills for maintaining that rescource.

[Backwater Eddy]

Many tournaments have many levels of participation and some raise funds used for worthy public causes.

Most good tournaments also provide angler education as well as water safety class's for youth and adults alike. When education is stressed as well as good sportsman ethics you have a better informed angler down the line and a better citizen.

Many events see pro's & amateurs alike participate in clinics that help introduce fishing to the young angler, the physically challenged angler, big brother & big sister partnerships, or troubled youth outreach programs.

Tournaments may help introduce fishing to people who may not otherwise have the opportunity to enjoy the sport we often take for granted.

Promotion of a healthy family sport that all ages and capabilities may participate in and have fun can't be all that bad in my book.

Have a Happy & SAFE New Year!

Backwater Eddy.....><,,>

[Gary Korsgaden]

Thanks to all of you for some excellent comments. They all bring to light just what tournaments bring to the table, alot of good indeed.
I wanted to make just a few comments. If the sincere attempt is to expose young anglers to fishing through clinics and seminars at tournament sites, I am all for it. But sometimes I feel the attempt
is really PR to create a a warm and fuzzy feeling in front of the media for the tournament folks. Regarding boat safety and the
exposure to it through safe boat handling in tournaments. Some of the tournaments I have seen and particpated in I wouldn't call it a demonstration of good boat safety, one doesn't need to look too far
at past tournaments in which poor safety habits resulted in damage to equipment and injury to contestants.

Let me be clear, I do not have any problems with tournaments as long as the non-tournament angler still has access and is treated in a considerate fashion. Unfortunately that isn't always the case, competive spirit gets in the way of treating other anglers in a respectfull fashion. However we shouldn't just zero in on the tournament angler, it is important for all sportsman to treat each other with respect. The resource is for all to enjoy.

Happy New Year to all

Gary Korsgaden

[Crane]

I am a senior citizen and have fished all my life. When I think back 40 or 50 years and remember what fishing was like.........bobber fishing from shore and catching a few fish to eat.........to today, using a living creature as a means to winning a contest, I am sadened.

[Box]

I guess you don't like football then... using 11 living creatures to win a contest. ;)

-Box

[curt quesnell]

Gary and all.

Good reading all the way thru on this topic.

If doing something "warm and fuzzy" like educating kids about fishing
and giving them a chance to participate when they normally would
not have a chance is viewed by anyone as anything but selfless and
noble we need to get s.f. to sock someone in the nose.
(is this the longest sentence of the day?)


A good deed is a good deed, some people feel the need to be critical
of everything.


Thank You
curt quesnell

[curt quesnell]

Gary,

Tournement fishing also tests new equipment like boats and motors.

Extreme conditions busts it all up once in a while. Improvements
are made so that when you and I buy one it is a better product.
My point is, equipment will get broken during testing.



curt quesnell

[s.f.]

reality is, for various reasons, good fishing is more widespread and more available today than it ever was 40 or 50 years ago. (as is in most aspects of life) walleye fishing didn't exist in half the acres of water it does now around the country. the fishermens ability
to navigate big water such as mille lacs was non-existent in the era you speak of. fishing techniques used today are much more consistent on a year 'round basis than those used in the old days. if the fishing public is willing to support the management it takes to sustain good fishing because of the effects modern ways have on the resource, what's wrong with today's ways?
competitive fishing played a major role putting us where we are today.
look around you and count the blessings you, yourself, most likely have to fish with today. 'those tournamnet guys' got you here.

#49

[Gary Korsgaden]

Crane, thanks for you comments. You have a right to feel that way and believe me I understand where you are coming from. Fishing is alot of things to alot of people........frankly I don't think your a minority in your feelings or thoughts. Regarding exposing kids to fishing Curt is 100% correct in any form it is a noble task and should be applauded. I just hope young people realize that fishing can be of the simplest to the most complex form of recreation. Meaning you don't need all the gadgets to be successful......though in alot of ways I disagree with the fact these tournament guys are test methods.
Instead using the cover of testing equipment for a reason for poor boating practices.Yes better equipment as evolved because of it however the fishing public looks up to these guys.......and in alot of instances demonstrate poor boaters safety and plain common sense. In a lot of ways I am like Crane, I want to hold on to the past just a bit,finding spots on your own enjoying the simply way of fishing to enjoy the day. Last year I used a row boat, no motor and depth sounder to fish for slab crappies on a little out of the way lake. It was the most memorable fishing outing in a long time. There is nothing wrong with holding on experiences like this and share it with others. I feel many of us, with the high tech fishing coming on to the scene, are concerned that these memories of fishing will be harder and harder to find. Steve you and Joe must feel a little violated, after all you guys pioneered Mille Lac's long ago. Lastly you and Joe came from the school of hard knocks angling is there any better way. Part of reward is finding spots on ones own isn't that true.......then catching a few fish for the table. I agree some great feedback.

[Crane]

Football players have a choice and make lots of money. Fishing contests cheapen life.

[JJ]

You're right! Educating kids about fishing, and giving them an opportunity to do so is wonderful. But to assume that can only happen if we have fishing contests is a real "stretch"!

[Box]

Well, you certainly can have your opinion. And I'm glad you have one.

I don't fish tournies. I DO like tournies. I don't think they cheapen life at all. I think they make my fishing better, and I think they enrich the lives of people who like them, watch them, participate in them and run them. That is my opinion.

I also think seeing pictures of tourney guys with big fish is great - because they release them... as opposed to those pictures of dead muskies and walleye and bass (sometimes dozens of them) from 40 and 50 years ago. Yes, my grampa had pictures like that, and also told of shooting dozens of pheasants and ducks per hunting day. That was the norm back then (or so I am told, by many old timers I hunt and fish with, and assume by the pictures I see). Thank godness we don't still have that mentality. "Fishing contests" and what the majority of them represent have helped to end that thought process.

Have a Happy New Year,
-Box

[s.f.]

gary, no doubt, from my heart, i wish we could turn the clocks back to the days when we fought hazy shorelines to find spots as big as a house, five miles from shore. it was great to net fish after fish in front of others that had no clue. what we took for granted then, now it seems, in the heart, something dearly lost. but...reality sets in...
i love my decked out, deep v lund, i don't mind the hazy days as i watch the plotter screen nowadays and so on. and with all that's happened, there still is plenty of GREAT walleye water that 'you can find on your own' but with more ease. i like the auto tranny in my truck too, instead of being forced to double clutch. i like the electric windows. and how 'bout that compound bow? i don't miss draggin' a deer a mile either.(thanks polaris!) bottem line...with the right attitude about modern day resource managment, good on the water ethics, and still using your own mind whenever you can, to hunt and catch fish, the sport is as great as ever. especially for old farts like crane and rapidly aging guys like me and you.
keep a tight line...
#49

[Crane]

Steve, I'm also an "ex-Johnnie", but who left there after you did. So who's the old fart!!!

I was only expressing my feelings of what fishing use to be. And I guess I miss it.

[s.f.]

at least i don't call myself a senior citizen yet...
s.f.

[redbone]

I believe that tournaments help in some ways to evaluate the resources. Some fishing clubs were started because of these tournaments. Local clubs that run tournaments like the michigan walleye tour set money aside to help rearing ponds rear fish for release into local waters and are involved in the quality of the resources and other clubs as well. There are clubs that have programs designed with kids in mind also. Alot of these clubs have many many tournament fisherman as members and they look to find ways to give back to the sport. there is a bigger picture to the tournament scene than just tournaments. IMHO

bob piette

[T-Mac]

Hey...it's OK, Steve...take the senior discounts. I do. Saves me money for fuel, bait & sandwiches! The first time I was offered a senior discount I was P-O ed... but now, I take 'em, even 'tho I KNOW I only look 54 1/2 . LOL

[Matches]

With all due respect to all, and I mean that, but Pleeeeeeeease. Tournament fishing is about one thing and one thing only, and that's money. Money always wins. Every reason that has been stated within this topic is secondary to money. I admit I watched the rcl tournament on TV last week and was extremely interested. But that isn't educating our kids. That's not making the public look up to these guys. I don't think it is originating public interest in fishing. How could it? Buy a $35,000 boat and motor, go out in 8 foot waves and that's what fishing is all about??? If you want to educate a kid about fishing and the resource, like a previous thread said, put'em in a row boat and go catch some sun fish. These tournaments are set up to advertise the boats, motors, gear, etc...just like Michael Jordan and tennis shoes. Charity? These companies needed to add that to the pot to hopefully keep'em going.

[Gary Korsgaden]

Matches....you are seeing competive fishing for what it really it is.
Thanks for your post.....what you said makes complete sense to me....
Someone just yesterday commented on how (while watching the weigh-in on tv of the RCL) could those walleyes be released back alive caught during the tournament. This everyday fisherman questioned just how many fish got released back alive.

Interesting observation

[s.f.]

you're dead right. tournament fishing is about money. and for the most part, life has been about money since the beginning of time, in one form or a another. as i have said in previous posts...let's all make the effects of tournament fishing go away and go back to 1975. that means you, yes you, have to give up your boat, rods, line, gps, lures,
AND the resource management you use today. and...we should, along with teaching the kids to fish in a rowboat, make them take drivers training in a 47 buick without seatbelts, disc brakes and fourlane highways. oh yes...give up your comfortable jogging shoes that guys like jordan created demand for. somehow, i survived growing up in a boat that i wouldn't even put in the water today. somehow i survived
the driving episodes 30 years ago and my sore feet didn't fall off either but...today is today. today kids will grow up to be more educated and better equiped fishermen. they will do it more safely and more conservatively. because of 'those tournament guys'. and they won't have sore feet because they have guys like jordan to follow...
as i also said earlier, in my heart, i agree with 'the old days'. but
i'll take todays fishin' anyday. #49

[Ric]

s.f., you're "all wet" about tournament fishing, and more than that you're in a minority. Most people don't agree with you. You obviously make money fishing, therefore your opinion. To assume that all the good things that have occurred in fishing is because of tournament fishing is absurd.

[s.f]

i wish i had a dollar for every time i was "all wet".
if you can tell me that the designs of everything on the tackle shelves, all the techniques used nowadays, boat designs, depthfinder
and gps innovation used in fishing, catch and release philosophy, fishery managment techniques created because of fishing pressure by more educated and mobile anglers, widespread walleye fishing interest
nationally that has forced creation of good walleye fishing in all but
nine states, has come from other directions, i will gladly change my opinion.
yes i make money in the industry. just like the major growth that fishing has done for waitresses, gas stations, suv manufacturers, bookkeeps at motels....
be it good or bad, the world of in-fisherman made it all happen.
#49

[Matches]

s.f.: Are you saying all you've stated has come from the direction and largely due to tournaments? The world of in-fisherman MADE it all happen? I've never made a negative comment about any one user name on these boards, but I gotta ask s.f. if they make a hat big enough to fit his head?

[s.f.]

look, i'm surely not here to create anything but a congenial atmosphere. if i come across being on some ego trip, that is not the intent. the facts are the facts, unless someone can point out something that proves otherwise. the walleye central concept developed
from the same basis todays fishing has developed from. and that's a good thing, isn't it? this question, i think, came from the perspective of 'what are the effects', not if it is good or bad for fishing. this is all i will say...my opinion as you say.
#49

[Walizz 1]

I have to agree that a great number of techniques and advances in technology are attributable to things learned from tournament fishing. When I saw my first bottom bouncer in 1985 I had no idea what it was!! Think about all the equipment in your boat. A lot of this stuff was used in very small areas and is now universal,ie. drift socks, planer boards, lindy rigs, back trolling, kicker motors GPS, the list goes on and on. Try to approach a big time athlete and ask him how to score more points, hit a ball better or score more touchdowns, heck, even try to get an autograph without paying for it!!You'll more than likely get pushed aside. On dozens of occasions I've seen big name walleye pros give tips and pointers and sign autographs for kids. That's not an ego trip. It's just being nice to people who want to enjoy fishing more and be better at it. s.f. and other Pros give lots of good free advice on these boards and that doesn't change their hat sizes any. Take advantage of all this good information and pass it on to others. You'll be helping to make them better anglers.
Good Luck
Dale Frank #251

[Ric]

Many revolutionary fishing ideas came well before fishing tournaments; Rapala, Lowrance "green box", Lindy rigs, backtrolling, Lund pike boats, etc. s.f. used the word "everything on the shelf" and therein lies the problem.

[s.f.]

i said i was done with this but i can't sit back and leave this set with the wrong info. then i WILL NOT discuss this anymore.

there was one basic rapala on the shelves until the demand for more and better was created. the lindy rig history comes from it's namesake
who as early as the sixties were big names in competitive fishing. the lowrance product line was one dimentional until the demand was created for more inovation. the 'pike boat' original designs were put on paper
in the backseat of a stationwagon by gary roach and lund representatives. yes...gary roach was the key instigator to the pike boat design. that design and concept was promoted, tested and demand was created, by 90 percent of the tournament participants in the late seventies and early eighties. i guess, who cares where it all came or comes from. with these facts of history, i simply answered the question. i'm just pointing out, that 'those tournament guys' might not be all that bad afterall.
#49

[Ric]

I have a copy of one of Al Linder's first printings (early 70's), and on the cover it says; "Price.....none, since this information is priceless". It was called "Catching Fish" by Al, Ron, and Bill Binkelman. I can also remember reading articles by Gary Roach (and others) when they really were enlightening. Read one today, with a yellow marker marking every time a mention of some product occurs. The article will be mostly yellow. I think, in those days, these fishermen really did resemble the "everyday fishermen". It's not the same anymore. It may be why Al got out of it.

[Box]

sheeeesss... I don't get it?.?.

<text deleted.... I am opting out of this one>

-Box

[Heiz]

I'm sorry but I have taken offense to the notion that tournaments are fished only for the money. I have fished tournaments for the last 3 years, and have cashed a few checks. But is that the only reason I fish them....not at all. I have met some wonderful people both as fisherman and as friends. I don't think it's for everyone, but I've met very few fisherman that don't enjoy talking fishing with knowledgable people. I look forward to the next year when I can see familiar faces.

[Matches]

Hiez: It gets back to the original question of what impact does tournament fishing have on the resource. I don't doubt that fishing in a tournament and seeing your friends at them, etc.. is great fun. I am not saying they should be outlawed either. It is the sugar coating answers of what tournaments are really about that is what some of us have taken offense to. Like the public and our kids would be less educated if we didn't have these tournaments. I could go on and on. I am just saying lets face it, it is one more area of our lives that Corporate America wants to direct. Now they want to leave the impression on our kids that if you want to be looked upon as a serious fisherman that you need a $35,000 boat and a $35,000 truck, yet they don't come out and say it, they sugar coat it with we're educating the public, the world is a better place,...etc...

[Ric]

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!

[Heiz]

I agree to a point. But let me say this. On this board I would say most of the guys are respectfull of the resources, but in the general public this is not true. I know first hand what guys take out of lakes in terms of size and numbers. Before I started fishing tournaments and learned what is "right" and "wrong", I'd keep everything. Most tournament guys are very respectfull for the waters they fish and are truly concerned with the resource. Tournaments encourage people to become active in catch and release. Are there bad eggs in tournaments....you bet there are, but I feel the percentages are less.

[Dave Randash]

Tournament fishing and it's related media coverage have been instrumental in educating anglers on catch-and release conservation.
I've developed "warm and fuzzy" feelings directly from tournament
participation....meeting new "life-long" friends sharing outdoor ex-periences. The camaraderderie is obvious.
Our local fishing club is heavily involved with conservation, education, and the promotion of fishing. We have expanded interest and membership numbers as a direct result of tournament fishing. Enlisting professional fisherman for club seminars packs the house. Increased enthusiasm regarding fishing is a good thing.

[Mountain Man]

I Fish tourneys, I guide some, and I fish for meat. These seem to be the three deadly sins in some folks minds. Usually three different folks. I learned a long time ago that I am not a fisheries biologist.
In a years time I talk to dozens of them though. I like to leave their job to them and mine to me....catching fish. I think they have a huge responsibility to tell all of us in an ever changing ecosystem(boy that term really dates me),what will and won't ruin or help a fishery.
Do I always agree, no. Do I respect them and think they are usually right Yes!!! If tourney fishing is doing more damage than good it's their call. Most of them have the intergrity to leave politics out of the equation. One thing I do know is, they ask hundreds of questions , both about what we tourney fisherman see happening at home and on other bodies of water. So back to "how does tourney fishing help the resource?". It is a solid source of information and
gives the biologists, (that make use of the data), a lot of insight into what is really going on out there. As to new equipment , better techniques, economic benefits, I could debate either side. As to the effect on kids getting interested in fishing , rather than huddling on a street corner, I would give it high marks.(and thats the resource I am most interested in!!!!) Actually the Bass guys
have done a great job of that for years. Lawrence

[Chad]

Gary,

I dont think anyone has ever tried to say that tournaments are a benefit for the resource. In most areas fishing isn't good for the resource but it isn't really bad either. Are golfers good for the golf course, no they keep putting divots in the sod, but if they replace their divots, and take care of the place it will continue to thrive for all to enjoy. Tournaments on the other hand can put some damage on the course but they are not held there everyday. If there are damaged areas, the grounds crew determines places people cant drive a cart so the turf can re grow.

The one thing tournament angling has done is bring new ideas to the front. I never used a planer board until I fished an MWC tourney and say them used. That is where I was introduced to bottom buncers also.

I think there is room there for all. Some like to fish tourneys and some like to sit in their canoe. We have special places for everyone to go. BWCA can be as secluded as you wish. on you can play bumper boats at Red Wing in the spring.

[Big Lou]

If anyone has any question on how a tournament can help the resource, all the have to do is watch the MWC tourney in Spring Valley IL on the Illinois river. The catch and release tournament there has about a 99% return of live fish back into the river. But that is not the most amazing part of it. To watch how the IL DNR actually works with the Spring Valley Walleye club is. They are right on sight to actually take all fish in their holding tanks back to their site in Marseilles IL. Once there they strip the fish of their sperm and eggs, keep them until they know they are healthy enough to be release, and then raise the new hatchlings in their holding ponds until they get released back into the river as fry and fingerlings. This effort by the club, the tournament fishermen, and the DNR has turned this body of water into a fantastic fishery. I commend all of them.