Attn: PWT Amateur's

[JD]

Howdy folks.
I would like some in put from first time PWT Amateur's. Preferably some one that went in totally blindfolded not knowing any one or never even been to an event but saw it on TNN and thought they would like to give it a try. What was your over all experience like good/bad/so-so? Were the pro's you drew friendly and accept you as a partner or make you feel like your were in their way and wish you were not even there? Is prefishing a benifit or wast of time since you have no say in the tournement? Weather you were in the money or not in the end, did you go home with the feeling that you were a more knowlegeable walleye angler and your hard earn'd money was well spent on a little education or should you have stay'd home and fished your local tournement trail.
Thanks in advance.
JD

P.S: Please dont turn this thread into a trail bashing contest i would just like some honest answers to my simple question. Thanks

[Brian_MN]

Hi JD,

My PWT AM experience was a very positive one that I'd recommend to anyone. Sure, you might run across someone you don't see eye to eye with. 10 percent of the people in the world are jerks, and you just have to deal with them once in awhile. But, I've never met anyone associated with walleye fishing that I couldn't enjoy a conversation with or learn something from.

Definitely pre-fish if you have the time. It's a better learning experience than the actual tournament if you ask me. During pre-fish you'll learn things like how to eliminate unproductive water, how to spot patterns developing, and how to pay attention to little seemingly insignificant clues about what's going on down there.

[Kevin B]

I have been doing the PWT for the past 3 years as an ametuer. I started off going in as you proably are, not knowing a sole except for those you saw on tv. As Brian noted, some "professionals" are great. I guess I have seen both worlds. I was fornunate enough to draw Norb Wallock in LOTW last year. He was GREAT. When I first stepped into the boat, he said "treat this as if was your own boat". To me that broke the ice and put me alittle at ease. The day went by way to fast & I learned a lot from our conversation. See, we had lots of time since we took our lower unit off early in the day.

Other guys may have a manuer in which they treat their "partners" as non-existant. You will have to make the best of each situation and learn as much as you can. There is a lot of pressure to do well. Some can handle it better than others.

Over all, it has been interesting to see how different guys pick apart the same waters. A lot can be learned from watching & asking questions (when you can).

Since beginning, I have gained knowledge of waters that (on my own) would have taken weeks of constant fishing to know. I would suggest, if you can do the ametuer side, do it. You will learn a great deal of fishing knowledge.

As far as prefishing. Some guys will take the time to take an amatuer prefishing. Others either already have partners or simply prefer to fish on their own. I have been fortunate enough to become freinds with some of the Pwt'rs and meet up with them at the sites to prefish the whole week. Do it if you have the time.

If you are "lucky" enough to place, (unless they change for 2002), if you don't come in first & get a boat, expect a cooler full of items which you may never use & have to declare on you tax return for full retail. The "amateur's" prizes are really the only negative I have.


GO FISH !!

[instigator]

Another vote for fishing the pwt if you can i fished lake erie and sault st. marie last year and learned alotin the time fishing most pros do treat you gret and you can learn alot from them and some cant take the pressure so well and when they are under it they get a little tense. But we are all there for the same reason we love to walleye fish. If ya do fish and learn something pass it on take a kid fishing . Fisherman helping fisherman that will ensure the future of our sport....Fish on...........Instigator

[Sluggo / NY]

JD..My experience fishing the PWT is a bit strange. I signed up to fish the Dunkirk (Lake Erie) tourney as an amateur last summer. I was able to pre-fish, but had a heart-attack the night before the tourney! (must have been the excitement!) Just the pre-fishing was almost worth the entry fee! They were gracious enough to refund my money..but I'm planning on trying it again! Next time I'm taking my cardiologist along with me! I was fortunate to pre-fish with Keith Segar, but met several other pros. They were all great guys and I'm really looking forward to my next try. I'd highly recommend it! Good Fishing, Sluggo (Chris)

[brian (fishbld)]

have fished 2 pwt tournaments on lake erie and have had mostly positive experiences in both of them, have fished with some great pros including Mark Brumbaugh and Mike Gofron, most of the pros go the extra mile to make your day a good one, only negetives i could mention is the prizes and on the 3rd day of my last tounament i was paired with a pro who was skunked on the first 2 days and he didn't seem to excited to be out there and didn't make much of an attempt to find some biting fish, we ended up getting skunked and i dropped from around 16th place to 41 out of the money. if i fish a tournament again, it will not be on lake erie because they use mostly a trolling technique for the walleyes and i am familiar with that kind of fishing and want to try a different method. if i can offer any advice to an amateur it is to fish in a tournament where the prefered method of catching fish is one which you do not use to often, this way you can learn a new way to catch walleye and become a better fisherman which is the whole point.

[Eye guy]

I fished a pwt tourney as an amatuer also... I will talk about prefishing first.... I worth it,,,,Doesn't help you in the tournament at all.... (I didn't). But will greatly help you watch some of the best get a game plan established... I would say forget the tourney and just pre fish... You will probably learn more. and save money.

As said before sometimes the pros getting a little edgey and don't know yours/mine skills so they have to assume the least.... and thats what one of mine did... and at the end of the day he asked if I had learnt anything,,, bitting my tounge I said yes.... thinking yeah how to take up as little of boat as possible and follow orders... Then my next two pros (seasoned) seamed to be able to size me up and before I knew he was running the boat and I was running the lines... lure color, feet out... etc.... then it was like I was fishing not working...

Should you do it or fish local tournies... do it once just to decide for yourself and meet the elite but keep an open mind....Its their baby.... altough you paid good money to be a part of it...

my .02...

[just fishin]

I've fished 9 events with 23 different pros. You may draw the same pro twice in a season. Only with 1 of them did I have a bad time. I was near the top and he was at the bottom and he just didn't care. That's life. With the others I learned more about walleye fishing than I could have in a lifetime. I fished with some of the very best and was always treated like a partner. After I got to know a couple of them it made it easier to get in on prefishing with them. How did I do it? At the hotel I would see a pro in his boat at the end of a day prefishing and ask him if he needed help with anything, most gladly accepted. That's a good way to break the ice. They're just people. Some don't want a stranger with them for fear of divulging info, can't blame them for that. I even showed a couple of them a thing or 2. I set out to learn and I did. Everything from boat handling , boat rigging, and different techniques on different waters. I even fished with one of the winners. I've got some plaques on the wall and a lot of great memories. I've made friends with people from all over the place. Try it. If you get any thing like I got out of it you'll be glad you did. One tip on prefishing. Don't set your sites too high. The real big names usually have people with them. If you ask some of the lesser known guys you have a better chance. They're all good anglers. Good luck.

[TP180]

I fished the PWT years ago on Winnebago. I knew I was moving to the area because of my job, and wanted to get to learn the water. I had the luck of fishing with both jiggers and trollers. I learned many good spots, even if we did not catch any fish there during the tournament. I hope to fish both the PWT and the RCL on Winnebago this year.

[s.f.]

on behalf of the pro element, we look forward to seeing you at this year's events. please understand these events aren't social events
for the pro's so sometimes you might get the wrong impression. but truly, the guys do welcome your presence and your efforts and obviously, will teach you everything they know as to insure you just might catch the 'money fish'. always ask questions if you aren't sure
about anything, on or off the water.
keep a tight line...
s.f.

[Gilligan]

I fished the PWT in Dunkirk this past summer, I also had the privelidge of 3+ days of pre fishing with Angler of the Year, Gary Gray. If you have never fished a PWT I would highly recommend it. If the PWT comes back there I will try to prefish but probably wouldn't fish the tournament.

Dunkirk was a tough bite and new to these guys. This was the last tournament of the season and many of the pro's either didn't have anything on the line (too far out to qualify) or everything on the line (just about a dead heat for Angler of the Year between Gary Gray, Cheif Papineau, and Pete Harsh) conditions were right to either see tempers flare with the pressure or for others to just go through the motions. I must say that most of the pros I was around were a real credit to the PWT and their sponsors. You will also get a form to fill out rating each of your 3 pros.

Probably the best example I saw, a friend of mine fishing as an amateur went without a fish on day 1 and day 2. His day 3 pro partner had also not weighed a fish in 2 days. They were fishless just about till time to leave for weigh ins when they picked up a 6# fish. This pro knowing my friend had zeros for 2 days offered to push his rig to the max to make weigh ins so he could get to go on stage with a fish. My friend declined rather opting to immediatly release the healthy fish and the pro kept him out on the water for another hour fishing for 'fun'.

One thing I will suggest... have a game plan before you go. Pick an appropriate tournament site for what you want to learn. (jigging, trolling, rivers, resevoirs etc)

[Sheila]

Good post Gilligan. Very true scenario about Dunkirk (last PWT of season). I felt the tension of the pros thru-n-thru out there in that brand new water. And yeah, I let Gary G. know my money was on him to pull off his Angler-of-Year too - he can figure out any water with all those years experience. Must say, it was much easier being an amateur in that one! I had a lot of fun there too, despite my first tourney skunk day ever!
Oh special note to Sluggo - we had a memorial cardiac toast to you starting at the rules meeting - in sadness of you not fishing the real thing. Gilligan made of point of seeking me out to tell me at the start of the excellent pre-pwt seminar by Keith Kavajecz and Norb Wallock just for the am's. We know how much you looked forward to it, all the posts on the boards showed your that earnestness.

You know the motto: all tournaments are good tournaments until you get there...hehe just kidding! Go for it.

[dan(or)]

i fished the PWT several years ago. Learned a bunch, fished with a local pro, a cabela's rep and steve fellegge (spelled wrong). all were good folks, some better than others.

Ended up 5th! what a thrill! learned bottom bouncers and spinners, adn lindy rigs.

I would recommend it especially if you can prefish

dan
out in Oregon Land where the walleyes grow bigger and the PWT doesn't know what it is missing + Columbia River....

[FROGMAN]

First off let me say it was the fantastic fishing we were experiencing, and not my boat driving that gave Sluggo his heart attack! OKAY so maybe it was the boat ride......JUST KIDDING! LOL

I will try to answer a few of your questions from a different viewpoint. On tuesday evening at the mandatory rules meeting where all of the anglers are paired up with their partners for the tournament I try to ask a few questions to determine the abilities of my am. partner. I usually don't mince words and flat out ask them what experience they have had as a walleye angler. It's not to condemn them, just want to know how much I'll have to show them. We will be fishing together as a team for that day, and I want them to be as much involved as I am! Many of the anglers are very experienced in the prevailing patterns for a given body of water(such as Sluggo, and Gilligan, excellent fishermen these two guy's are!, and don't rquire any coaching at all!

Secondly, feel free to ask any question you wish! Sometimes asking questions will help rethink tactics, or positions!

Lastly, I hope that all my partners at the end of the day came away with something more than when they started. Many things can make for a bad day of fishing, wind, rain, cold-fronts, and yes even pressure to produce can creep in and cause tension in the boat. However I really like to hear feedback from my am partners, it's the only way I will ever know what I'm doing right, or doing wrong.

As SF stated in his post I look forward to seeing you this year on the circuit, and don't hesitate to come up and say hello to any of us, and ask if we need someone to pre-fish with, you never know we just might! (sometimes we have cancellations for pre-fishing, even though I think Sluggo's excuse of an heart attack was a little overboard! If he didn't want to go out fishing with me again all he had to do was say so!) Glad to hear your doing well Chris!! LOL

Merry Christmas

Keith Segar
NPAA #260

[Gilligan]

Rumor mill has it that when Chris saw that downrigger headed to the bottom of Erie he was afraid he was next! }>

[shadownose]

I fished the Dunkirk PWT and was lucky enough to pre-fish with a pro that I hired to guide me 1 year prior on the Bay of Quinte,and had become friendly with him.The knowledge I gained pre-fishing with the pro, with him trying different tactics,colors,depths,speeds,etc,etc, I could never have gained in years of reading magazines or watching videos. Hands on is the only way to go! Unfortunetely, I was paired 1 complete jerk, who right off the bat told me that I was not allowed to reel any fish in,and then even had me sit in the front of the boat as ballast (I weigh 185 lbs)because water might possibly come over his transom ( he had a 20' fiberglas Tracker). On the day we met our pros for the tournament, he told me that he knew what methods would probably win the tournament,but he was going to fish "his" way, and needless to say he did not catch a fish any of the 3 days! My 2 other pairings were very knowledgable and included me as part of their team.I would love to just pre-fish with a pro, but part of the thrill of fishing for me is being under the gun in the tournament. I am probably going to the Erie tournament in 2002, and hope that the pro that I pre-fished in '01 doesn't have any one to pre-fish with. Overall,I felt that the "big name" pros were very accomodating and made their pairs a part of the team, and the ones that I talked to in the pre-fishing part of the tournament treated me as I were a pro also, not just an amateur along for the ride. I enjoyed myself, and would recommend that pre-fishing be a must,but only if you can hook up with a pro

Walteye

[s.f.]

your "complete jerk" partner should be made known to the tournament director so as to eventually end those types of experiences. you can and should be able to do so anonomously. doing so is a favor to the integrity of the game and the other pro's.
s.f.

[JD]

Thank you all for your input. If all goes well,Ill see you in SD in may.
Thanks agian
JD

[Gary Gray]

First off, I want to thank all my am's for helping me obtain " Angler of the Year, and " Top Gun".

Second, I want to thank Gilligan and Shiela, for the good words.

Third, I want to thank Gilligan for spending those days prefishing with me, and the use of 2 of his reels. I had 16 rod/reel combo's in the boat, and still had to borrow 2 of his reels for a special presentation. Thank You.

Now to the point, yes, please jump in and fish the Am's side. It is a great experience for most, and it is good to know, that an Am is also doing his or her homework before jumping into a circut. As you can see from the posts above, most AM's have a good time.
From the time an Am gets in my boat in the morning, I tell him, or her, you are my partner for the day, and our number one goal is to have "fun and be safe", then next is to catch a limit of fish. With this in mind, we will have a great day.

Not all days go the way they are suppose to, and sometimes frustration sets in, but you still have an obligation as a "Pro" to make the best of the day, and show the Am a good time. I have had "zero" days, and still had a good time with Am, but it is much easier to have a good time, when that limit is in the well.

My third day Am at Detroit River this past season, told me the first thing in the morning, " I have never caught a walleye on a jig". I took that as a signal as he never got the chance to jig fish. I immediately picked up a jig rod, gave it to him, and went through the motions with him. It took about 30 seconds for him to catch on. I told him to fish with one rod, if it made him feel more comfortable, and he did. At 9:30, he caught his personal best, 11.56lbs, and at 2:00pm he caught a 10.03lber, 10 min later he caught a 9.00lber. Not bad for never catching a walleye on a jig before.

Just take the time to talk to your Pro, let him know if you have or have not fished the way he plans on fishing that day. It only takes a minute sometimes, to make it a "Great Day".

Gary Gray

[WAZ]

I have fished the PWT and RCL in the past as a co-angler. I have also most recently fished as a pro. Having good and bad experiences with each. The most important aspect of pro-am fishing is having a positive attitude. You can catch a limit of fish and have a bad day with a jerk for a partner. You can also get skunked and have a great day. It all depends on your frame of mind. It is not always the pro that sets the tone for the fishing day. The co-angler must be positive and helpful also. Sometimes the co-angler comes in with an attitude if they caught a better weight than you the previous day. I tell my co-anglers we are a team. I want to catch fish as much as he/she does. We must work together or else it makes for a long day. At the Devils Lake RCL tourney my co-angler and I had a heartbraking experince. Being a no cull tournament decisions have to be made. We had a couple of nice fish in the boat and they were biting regularly. Caught a 18 plus incher and couldn't decide to keep or not. I looked for the input of my co-angler and said you make the call I can't decide. He said toss it back it's still early. We did not catch another keeper. He finished 61st after two days missing the cut by ounces. I felt so bad for him. It must have been a long ride home.

[Ristorapper]

Great stories Gary and WAZ!

First and foremost I was advised by a local PWT pro not to fish my home waters as an amatuer. I think that is great advice. A local from Hazen ND fished the PWT event out of Beulah/Hazen this year and he knows Sakakawea well. Picture this when he draws three pros that do not know the lake as well as he and he finishes in the middle of the pack. By rule he is not allowed to feed the pro info on where to fish. So all in all it was not a good week for this am. Fish some waters that you are interested in fishing and learning something about. If you already know the water what else is there to gain.

I am only 60 miles from Sakakawea and wanted to learn more areas to fish on this lake. The areas I am familiar with were either out of bounds or were a long way from the launch and were probably not going to get fished due to long distances from the launch. So with that said I submitted my entry fee in hopes of learning some areas in the middle of the lake and with my entry fee basically going for a three day guided tour of the lake. Much to my suprise day one found me on the north shore from the launch, day two northwest and to the west end of the boundry and day three we went east and into Douglas bay. Got exactly what I was wishing for; a tour of the central part of Sakakawea. And with a bonus to boot(later in the story)!

Day one I drew a good natured rookie pro out of MT and we ended up in the middle somewhere around 53rd. Had some fun tried some things, switched up and hooked some fish. Day two I drew a seven year full time pro out of Rinelander WI and we again did some things early that weren't panning out, switched up and hammered some fish, done by noon and my largest walleye to date in the live-well. Gotta like that eh? By the way my(our) largest walleye finishes out of the money by .05 pounds; yea that's about 3/8 ounce!!!! Anyway now I am in 8th place! Day three I fish with a rookie pro out of Wyoming that just so happened to weigh the 4th largest backet of fish on day one. Am I pumped; but he only weighs 3+ pounds on day two. We'll see what happens. Can't sleep! Day three rolls around and we fish some humps out in the middle of no where. Couple fish. We move on and again don't get into them until after noon much like day one. Only we are hammering fish(really he is) pitching jigs of which I have very little experience. Learning curve, yea! Really I had no idea of gaining ground on the field; there is a lot better chance of dropping from eighth place than moving up so when I crossed the stage I was in first place. I barely got off the stage and the next am bumped me down to second so it was short lived and eventually I ended in third. I couldn't have asked for a better experience.

So that you can have experiences like this and stroies to tell, you have to give it a try. It was fantastic, the pros were all great and friendly and give you the once over as far as your favorite presentation. Be up front with them, let them know where your confidence lies and go with the flow. And above all there are good friendships to be made. The day three pro I fished with ended up qualifying for the Championship and guess where that was held? In my back yard and that pro asked me if I would like to prefish with him at the championship. Sure why not, we had another blast. Get involved. I have been a volunteer at the Championhips and have ridden along as an observer and was lucky enough to observe with the likes of Tony Puccio, Norb Wallock and Mark Martin. It's all about living, learning, and having some fun and getting to know some new water and making lasting friendships along the way. Give it a try.

BW(ND)

[DVan]

I have never entered a tournament as an amateur, but it sounds very interesting. Approximately how much does it cost to enter as a amateur? Is the pre-fishing organized (you are paired with a pro just like during the actual tournament)and part of the fee or do you try and meet up with a pro and ask to tag along?

[RDJ]

I have fished 3 PWT's as an AM now and have had a combination of experiences. Some great experience, alot of good experience, and a couple of bad times.
The great times include getting to fish with the reigning Angler of the year to placing high in an event and drawing 3 great guy to fish with during the tournament.
The good times include spending quality fishing time on the water with some terrific people learning about walleye fishing. Most I've met have been very open about sharing their experience and techniques and definitely have a high interest in the AM's catching fish or learning to catch fish immediately. Don't forget, these guys need your help as much as you need their's. You are their partner for the day.
The bad times, well I've tried to not dwell on them but they do happen. The first day of my first PWT tourney I drew a rookie pro and 15 miles from the launch we had engine trouble and had to turn back. We got back on the water at 9:00 and wound up catching a couple of decent fish for about 9 Lbs. total. Unfortunately, because of the rough start to the day and his "want" to do well, he opted to stay on the spot trying to catch "one more fish" and got us in a couple of minutes late and our weight was DQ'd for the day. I think we both learned from the experience. This day I could excuse but the following day was pure B.S.!! I fished with a pro and to make a long story short, the low point of the day was when he had me bail out the livewell of his Yar-Craft with a plastic shopping bag because he had killed 3 of the 4 fish in it while trying to fizz them, it looked like the knife scene from the movie "Psycho". The water had turned all cloudy from the dying and dead fish and he was reluctant to run his aerator on any other setting than "timer". Now I don't have a problem helping out in these situations when they happen as we are a team for the day(I now have made a habit of checking the livewell myself occasionaly during tournaments)but what really got me was when I looked up from my knees on the floor of the boat position and he was sitting up on the rear chair eating a sandwhich and pringles watching me!!! This lasted about 5 minutes until I had finally had enough and declared it was now time for me to eat a F##KING sandwhich. At this point he was done and said "WE" had probably gotten enough of the water out of the well and that it was time to move" Get your lifejacket on". I couldn't wait for this day to end.
This type of behavior is definitely the exception and I would recommend to anyone to fish these pro/am events if you have a chance. Definitely pre-fish if you can, this is where the true opportunity to learn comes as the pro's are learning also. By tournament time they have their patterns pretty well dialed in and are focused for the most part on that or those particular presentations and area's. Good luck to all.

[Gilligan]

Ristorapper.. Actually I put off for some years fishing the PWT waiting for them to show up on my home waters. (ERIE EAST BASIN)

As I said in my earlier thread, go to the tournament with a game plan and mine wasn't to place as an AM, I considered any such luck as an added bonus. I wanted to see how the pros figured out patterns and eliminated unproductive water. I'm sure some area amateurs were dissapointed and had a hard time biting their tounge when fishing with a pro that was struggling; I didn't because I wanted to see these guys figure it out and learn how they did it.

Several weeks earlier I had fished a 2 day tournament here that consisted of 3 anglers/6 lines. This tournament draws area charter captains who fish and make their living on this water daily. Some of the pros put up comparable numbers after just a handful of prefishing days, that is what really amazes me about these guys.

In spite of being on my home water I learned alot. I had never fished lead core, Gary Gray told me when we were done prefishing that I would be using it, I knew he was 100% wrong, I now have 6 reels earmarked for it next season! The pros I got to meet, spend time with, fish and prefish with were great! (Jim Stedke, Lance Lemmon, Gary, Will Lage, Rob Ensor, Dave Hanson, Jeff Russell, Keith 'FROGMAN' Segar, Scott Rhodes, and Scott Fairburn) Placing 65th of 126 didn't bother me at all, my friend also enjoyed himself, he placed...126th!

Now, PWT, please, come to Chautauqua!

[ristorapper]

The entry fee for the PWT is $575. which covers three days of fishing with three different pros. Not included in that fee is approximately $40 each day you are expected to pay the pro for bait, gas, ect. The RCL is a little different; their fee is $500 and includes two days of fishing and a possible day three and/or day four depending on if you finish in the top 60 after day two and finish in the top 12 after day three. Prizes in the PWT are exactly that; prizes. Placing in the RCL will get you cold hard CASH.

Prefishing is a little difficult to line up at times. You need to know or contact one of the pros and line up a day or two. I still offer to help pay for gas/bait if they are willing to take the money. Last year for the PWT championship I had several knocking on my door and decided it would be only fair to prefish with one of them. It was really difficult to turn down the other pro but I hooked up a friend with him so still helped him out a bit.