Cool Walleye Central Rumor!

[Jason P.]

I just spoke with a friend of mine who is acquainted with some of the Walleye Central people. Hope I am not letting the cat out of the bag, but it sounds like there are going to be some new features at Walleye Central. Apparently the WC crew has been developing a professional walleye angler ranking system and evidently some real cool tournament coverage stuff. The ranking system has been in development for some time and has been planned to debut prior to the new tournament season.

He would not go into specifics,but it sounds like there will be lots of tournament coverage where we will actually be able to get to see even more pro anglers at Walleye central.

Hopefully this stuff happens and is not just a rumor. just want to know if any of you have also heard about this?

Jason P.

[Fuzzy]

What is the need for a pro ranking system? I would think the final standings for tour stops and championships for the PWT, RCL, MWC et al would suffice as adequate rankings. What don't I understand?
What more do we need to know?

Create a ranking system for the real problems in our country.

[Tourney Fan]

"What is the need for a pro ranking system? I would think the final standings for tour stops and championships for the PWT, RCL, MWC et al would suffice as adequate rankings."

Boy do I agree with that. Don't matter one bit what ya did last year! As far as career standings, show me the money baby! Total career earning is all I look at. That puts Bruce Samson at the top of the heap.

[Musings]

So the measure of the top angler is the total money won? If I win one $400000 event and placed near dead last in say, 5 others, I am a better consistent fisherman than the guy who has won or placed the best over the last few years?

[hereweare]

it doesn't matter where you been, cuz here you are! now let's see who wins this year!!!

[Tourney Fan]

"So the measure of the top angler is the total money won? If I win one $400000 event and placed near dead last in say, 5 others, I am a better consistent fisherman than the guy who has won or placed the best over the last few years?"

What I'm saying is the definition of the word Professional or "Pro" means doing something for money. And if you make more money than any other person in your profession, you are the best in my book.

If you want to crown someone most consistent, than call it that!

[wondering]

I think Bruce is a great fishermen, BUT!

Where is ranked on the all time money winners in the PWT?
Tom Keenan who also I think is a good angler, would be the first to tell you that he does'nt compare with the careers of a Parsons,Kavajecz,Good. 1 very large win is great and will make your name spoken for some time, but its the guys that produce year in and year out that get my attention. I think that there are many very good anglers out there and a big win like the RCL Championship is very impressive but the guys that win over the years are the most impressive to me. I know Bruce has done well, and will continue too. 1 Big win should not put you above the guys that do well all the time, if you know what I mean.

Sring is on the way, new guys and old are ready to take their skills to the next level and do some damage on the curcuits they fish! Good luck to all and may the best guys win out!

[Jason P.]

Tourney,

Like the angler of the year rankings in the PWT and RCL. They are some of the most prized titles by competitive anglers cause it shows their consistency.

Jason P.

[Tourney Fan]

"its the guys that produce year in and year out that get my attention"

Oh yeah, they have my attention and respect!

I only agreed with the response that, at the end of any given year the PWT, RCL, MWC or any other circuit is the measure for that year. Who showed up, who won or who was the most consistent THAT YEAR! In the end, if you want to put someone on the top of the Proverbial Pedistal of "All Time Great" Look who earned the most money.

All of the other rankings are silly in my book. I hope this site does not go down that dead end road and I hope the other site kills thier flawed attempt at trying to rank people fishing for money!

[Tourney Fan]

"Like the angler of the year rankings in the PWT and RCL. They are some of the most prized titles by competitive anglers cause it shows their consistency."

Like I already have said, those titles put you at the top of the heap for that year, not all of time!

[sevenmmm]

Not sure about that, Tourney Fan. It is interesting to consider who is the most consistent angler - considering all the major tournaments. And it has to be a very hard and time consuming task to work through such a formula, so it has to have some merit.

Oh yeah, and its controversial!

[Tourney Fan]

"Oh yeah, and its controversial!"

Yep.

[Average Fisherman]

The focus of this site will keep catering toward the pro to the point that the average guy will stop showing up. Nothing against pro's, but I really am tired of hearing all about the pros. Start a new site titled Walleye Pro Elite and have at it. Leave this site for the average guy before they totally leave.

[Viewpoint]

Hmmm, so does this mean the Walleye Rankings from that "other site" are not that big of a deal? I guess anyone can come up with rankings huh?

One website comes up with a "marketing program" they call "Walleye Rankings" in an attempt to rank two completely different circuits with completely different formats?

And we listen to this? We take data for what they show without question?

I don't think the two can be rationally compared with data.. it's two different formats, with different time limits..etc... it's absurd to believe any data comparing the two.

Now this website wants to come up with their own ranking system?

If the first one is flawed, how can this one not be flawed?

I'm not a math major.. but I just don't see how the two circuits can be compared with any data that means anything.

It's just a marketing scheme .... it mean nothing.

Each circuit ranks their own... leave it at that.

[wondering]

Tourney

So if I were to win the RCL and they paid me $400,000. then I would be ranked like 3 or 4 in your book all time even though I have never one a tournament or have only fished like 10 in my life! You don't make much sense with that. Anyone can get luck and win a big payday, what have done all time? Total earnings in one event or total earnings over 10 or 15 years! I wonder how much the top guys would have made if the stakes were what they are today? Well over 1 million for about 5 guys, but thats not the case! 1 payday does not make a life time of acheviement or put you into the Hall of fishing fame!

Remember 62 homeruns, next year someone else will win a big payday at the RCL is that person now on the list of all time greats?

[Ranked Pro]

-----What I'm saying is the definition of the word Professional or "Pro" means doing something for money. And if you make more money than any other person in your profession, you are the best in my book.

If you want to crown someone most consistent, than call it that!

Like I already have said, those titles put you at the top of the heap for that year, not all of time!

Oh yeah, they have my attention and respect!

I only agreed with the response that, at the end of any given year the PWT, RCL, MWC or any other circuit is the measure for that year. Who showed up, who won or who was the most consistent THAT YEAR! In the end, if you want to put someone on the top of the Proverbial Pedistal of "All Time Great" Look who earned the most money.

All of the other rankings are silly in my book. I hope this site does not go down that dead end road and I hope the other site kills thier flawed attempt at trying to rank people fishing for money.------


The ranking system doesn't rank by money winnings or all time finishes, because what is relevant to the system is recent performance over a finite period. A running formula that measures performance over a set timeframe determines rank, so you get a picture of where the Number 1 to Number 200 Ranked anglers are at THIS point in time, not in overall history. If this is 'flawed', then so is EVERY sports ranking system that measures performance and consistency by the standards set by the ranked events.

As a ranked Pro, the last tourney from year before last will fall out of the system as each new event is fished. I know that if I fish more than the PWT minimum or the RCL (1 event difference) I will be ranked higher, and have more 'staying power'. I also know from looking at the graphs that the data doesn't lie. Not one bit. Those of you hacking at the system are either not looking at it carefully or don't understand it, or are plain set against it for no factual reason. ALL the objections seen on WC have been answered clearly when presented to the designer, to total satisfaction. If you have an objection, and haven't asked for explanation, then you have no argument because you do not know the facts. Know the facts, and still disagree, then you have something.

I will be ranked this year. And I intend to pay attention to that for obvious reasons.

Don't like the system? Heck, then don't watch it.

[bigfish1965]

Already got my ranking...sweet..

Ranked #3,673,390

Look out number 3,673,389...here I come!

[I Concur]

"The ranking system doesn't rank by money winnings or all time finishes, because what is relevant to the system is recent performance over a finite period. A running formula that measures performance over a set timeframe determines rank, so you get a picture of where the Number 1 to Number 200 Ranked anglers are at THIS point in time, not in overall history. If this is 'flawed', then so is EVERY sports ranking system that measures performance and consistency by the standards set by the ranked events."

You hit the nail on the head. This is EXACTLY what the WWR is, not the best of all time. That is all the guys there ever billed it to be and said it was.

[Jason P.]

So it seems although it might be a neat little stat gimmick for whomever creates one the rankings amount to nothing in the end, just a tool for someone to promote something? I still like the idea of Walleye Central havings rankings, just for the fun of it.

So, if the rankings are subjective, why would the NPAA consider endorse anyones rankings, seems like folly to me.

[Another average guy]

I agree. They have their own tournament board and we still have to look at this crap in General Discussion. I am sick of the tourney crap. Money, money, money. Blah, blah, blah

[Unranked Pro]

Ranked Pro, Whats this whole purpose of being "ranked"? I'm I or the average guy going to care if your "ranked" 15 or 30 or 124? I guess I don't understand the motive? Does anyone even remember who finished 14th last year at the PWT championship? To all you guys who want to be "ranked" maybe you should start your own website and "rank" yourselves. Then the people that care most about being "ranked" can access the site everyweek and see what "ranking" they got. You could even make it a private site so the non-ranked anglers can't get in.

Enough sarcasm here: Bottom line here is Professional Angling will be taking a step backwards if they try to start "ranking" people. You can obviously see what its going to do with Ranked Pro's attitude. He or she pretty much didn't give solid reasons why this ranking is going to benefit professional angling, he or she is only interested in what his "ranked" number is or will be so he can go into the office and tell his buddies hes "ranked #17 or "I'm # 42 in the country pal"

If anyone thinks they are going to rank a walleye angler from 1-200 and call them the best 200 walleye anglers in the world, they are out of there frickin mind. I agree some of the best anglers are on the RCL and PWT circuit, but theres thousands of better anglers out there that cant afford those tourney fees..


Ok, I'm done..

[Trophy]

Is your ranking World Wide, or just in the Canadian Division????

[Trophy]

Kinda like the B.C.S. thing. Ask Southern Cal how fair these things are.

[Trophy]

I don't hardly see how you can have an overall ranking system for all anglers since you have several different circuits, fishing waters that are different in locations, and running different rules for each circuit. I agree that overall winnings isn't the answer either. As an example Say angler x wins 2 events early in the year, and pockets Y amount of dollars. He catches 15 fish in those 2 events. He then fishes the rest of that circuit and catches 2 fish the rest of the year in competetion(that happens if you check the results of the circuits) that gives him 17 total fish for the year. Angler z in the meantime wins 0 tourny's but catches 30 fish in competition. I think angler z should carry the higher ranking FOR THAT CIRCUIT, not overall.

[OK]

OF COURSE the WWR will not list the top 200 'walleye anglers' in the world, that is subjective and impossible to quantify. What it WILL do is list the top 200 competitors who are fishing the two Pro circuits out there, the PWT and the RCL. The team rankings will do the same for the events that qualify. The ranked anglers are pitted against each other, not you.

The WWR represent a snapshot in time, not lifetime achievment. The WWR is a sports ranking system, and does exactly what it is described to do by the designer.

If an angler cannot afford to fish the PWT, RCL, or both, then they will not be ranked. If an exquisite golfer cannot afford to be a course Pro, play tournaments and get a reputation built up, break into the big time, and golf the PGA, that doesn't make them a poor golfer, it just makes them an unranked golfer.

[OK]

Trophy,
Take a lok at a WWR chart. Look at the events fished, weights turned in, and overall score. That should help you understand how it's done. Winning two and bombing in 5 will get you a low ranking. In the example you give, your angler Z would rank pretty well, as consistency and weights that get one in the money are important. Look at the anglers who had good catches all year, and DID win a couple as well. They lead the rankings at this point in time. Those who did not win, ever, but did well and had monet finishes all year, may be right on the leader's heels.

[OK]

Trophy,
Not at ALL like the BCS. They actually try to rank teams that have NEVER PLAYED EACH OTHER. The WWR represents how the angler ACTUALLY performed against his/her peers over two seasons of competition.

[OK]

WWR is RCL and PWT. Team WWR Circuits TBA.

[Trophy]

I don't understand how you can use results from different bodies of water, and just alot of differences in general to come up with a ranking. As an example Rcl fishing Erie out of Catawba, versus Pwt fishing out of Cleveland Yeah it's the same Lake, but the difference in the fishing is enormous.

[hgmeyer]

Hey Bigfish... that's me you gunning for... watch you back... I'll put a Muskie Lure over your bow in a heartbeat... Back off or I';ll hide a banana in your boat!

[OK]

Performance, finish, what the angler did against the rest of the field. Makes no difference where the event is held. The PWT used to rank by weight, and if an angler had a bad Erie event, they were 'finished' as a result. The WWR is not an average, it is a complicated formula that literally measures performance over a two season timespan. WR is not a measure of angler VS water, it is Angler VS Angler. Tennis courts and golf courses vary widely too, but all players in each event are up against the same conditions. The angler's performance in EACH event's what counts.

[Viewpoint]

Yea.. why don't you just go ahead and say you are representing the Rankings and that website instead of treating us like idiots.

Obviously you have something to gain here...

"The WWR is a sports ranking system".. what kind of bull is that?

It's "Another Website Marketing System" and that is all it is.

You are kidding yourself if you think you can pass this off as anything more than what it is.. "Marketing".

I don't know if Walleye Central is really going to try to rank the pros, but I really hope they don't because it cannot be done effectively.

Of course I'm sure they can come up with something and call it "A sports ranking system"... what a joke

Personally I hope they don't create a ranking system because nobody can prove to me that the variables can be crunched.

It's not golf on the same playing grounds, it's not NASCAR on the same courses, it's not even Bass fishing on the same waters.

Sure, you can present numbers and you are going to get some people to believe you because they are numbers.. but you cannot give me an apples to apples comparison.. PERIOD! END OF STORY

So... quit trying to sell your wares here.. and for petes sake.. quit pretending you aren't from that "other website".

[Um]

"it's not even Bass fishing on the same waters."

BASS does not go to the same waters over and over....and for the love of Pete, it is a 2 year snap shot in time. Get over it.

[bigfish1965]

Just Ontario actually, Trophy...dang kids.

[Viewpoint]

Bass fishing is easier to compare than walleye fishing, hands down.

Same rules, same amount of time on the water, came number of fish allowed...

Walleye has too many variable... so "get over it"... it's not apples to apples.. I don't care how you sugar coat the numbers.

[bigfish1965]

Fine..I'll just fish from shore, Mr Meyer...I'm coming for ya!!!

[Hmm]

I bet this is ruining your whole day, isn't it?

[Viewpoint]

I see you are up late

Actually.. it's just something to argue about.

Personally I don't care about the rankings of pros or the tournaments but I do care about the sport of fishing in general.

And.. I visit "the other site" but I don't agree with the math and the rankings..so it makes for good conversation I suppose.

Truthfully.. I don't see how it can be done and mean anything.

Don't get me wrong.. you can take data, scramble it to say what you want it to say and show data... but in the end.. it's just data.

Golf has a chance of splitting hairs, NASCAR has a chance... Bass fishing has a very small chance but at least it's closer than walleye fishing... I don't see it,, somebody has to prove it to me.

This "Snapshot" is just rhetoric, it's fancy talk for "not really".. it cracks me up.

I've been visting Walleye Central for several years, and it seems to me that everyone tries to copy them and for once.. someone is trying to do something first.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, Walleye Central goes to each and every tournament.

It's on the website, they post the results, they do their own work.

I gotta wonder where "the other guys" are getting the data? They are not at the tournaments so they have to "borrow" it and I don't see them giving any credit for the data they are farming.

Just an observation.

I'm very Walleye Central one sided, at least they pay the price, they do the work, so I think I will listen to them first.

But hey, that is just me <smile>

[Steve Worrall]

The other side IS at many of the Tournaments. How would we do the reports and shoot video, etc, otherwise? You might not know Zach, Troy, me,or any of the others who are over here, so it's not a surprise that you wouldn't know we are there. When we can't be at an event, we do what I assume the other sites do, have someone who IS there phone in the weights. How does WC get results from events they don't attend? They are not at all of the tournaments, I have been at a few they covered and there wsn't a WC guy anywhere in sight.

OK, credit where credit is due, Zach designed and built the first Live Leader Board. He also was responsible for Fantasy Angler, and several other features you see here at WC. I believe Scott and Zach worked together for 7 years here, and the Rankings idea came up in 1998 or so after Zach designed the Leader Board. There would have been a ranking system here back then except for the fact there wasn't an established enough database at the time, the sport was too new. Zach is simply continuing work he began about 10 years ago. You can debate the system if you wish, that is expected, but many of the comments here indicate a lack of understanding as to how it works and if an incorrect assumption or statement is made, I would think everyone here would expect that a correction or explanation should be posted.

It's interesting; I watch threads like this, say nothing until a question or attack is posted that should be answered, and simply do my best to answer misconceptions or flat out attacks that have no basis in fact as best as I can without upsetting any of the moderators here at WC. I mean no offense, I am simply explaining a concept or answering a question or challenge.

[Marble Eyes]

Already got my ranking...sweet..

Ranked #3,673,390

Look out number 3,673,389...here I come!

http://www.walleyecentral.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=103330

----------------------------

Don't push it big fella. You're crowding me.

[pwrfshn]

Average guys,

No need to worry, the tourney stuff, rankings, money, blah, boah, blah will all be kept where it belongs, on the tourney board.

I don't speak for the site, but I could not imagine Scott letting the tourney stuff run over onto the other parts of the site, that is why the tourney sections was created.

Some of us want to talk about that stuff, others want to leave that stuff alone. We have the best of both worlds here and plan to keep it that way.

Since I agree with you guys, I'm pretty sure we'll kepp the tourney stuff where it belongs, on the tourney board.

Thanks for the reminder,

[Dave Landahl]

Steve,

Unless you are willing to provide specifics regarding Walleye Central not having a person at a tournament that has been covered since I have been onboard I would appreciate not spreading false information.

I personally covered all but 1 MWC event in 2003 including the Championship, every RCL including the Championship, every PWT including the Championship, the RCL League Championship and the Cabela's NTC. One MWC event was covered by another WC person.

The Evinrude Classic and the GNWC provide their own Live Leaderboard coverage. They are doing it for themselves and we are merely providing the service.

Frankly, I do not recall ever seeing anyone from your company at any of the tournaments I covered in 2003 or for that matter when I was working with the RCL in 2002.

Dave Landahl
Operations Manager
Walleye Central

[RDJ]

BigFish, thats hillarious... Thanks for the laugh. The next thing you know you'll have Spam and Tampax knocking on your door to sponsor you...Have fun, RJ in Montana...

[Fuzzy]

The Live Leaderboard is great - fresh info on events through the season - great idear. But the ranking system seems like overkill to me. Better to rank pros by the income they generate for their sponsors than to rank by tour finishes. Money and the industry is what really matters.

Will rankings include fish lost at the net? Will there be a handicap for blown engines, foul weather, vehicle troubles, problem electronics and all the myriad of things that go wrong during a tourney? Seems fair to consider those factors as well.

I am not attacking - just obseving.

Something to think about - each one of us that uses this site is a better walleye fisherman than 99 percent of the rest of the people on the planet.

[Fuzzy]

Most money wins? Saddam earned more money than Gee Dub - so Saddam is a better leader?

[Fuzzy]

Here is a fact - if you aren't ranked in the top 40 your ranking will probably hurt your relationships with current and future sponsors.

be careful what you ask for - you just might get it.

[sevenmmm]

Zach was at the weigh-in for the MWC Championship, and know that Troy did report on the Otter Street Lake Winnebago event. Also saw Dave at many of the events I attended and will vouch for this as well. To all who have not seen, this guy (Dave Landhahl) is very diligent in his work and will do just about anything to get the shot!

Also, many have noticed that I wrote reports on the other site about my experiences fishing the PWT and the MWC this last year. Some have approached me and asked if I am the owner and/or working for this site. Always I make it clear I am not - in either case.

However I am a consumer of the advertisers on both sites and am hoping they respond to each other with a better internet experience for all of us anxiously-waiting-for-open-water walleye fisherman!

[SUPERTROLLER]

I want to know why they think a 2 year span is better than a rolling 1 year time frame. Tennis and Golf use a 1 year timing and drop off anything over 1 year old. If the players don't have the points because they skipped events, they drop. End of the year is the deciding point for player of the year because that is 1 Calender year. It's pretty simple.

[Trophy]

Saddam was sponsored by Team Bin Ladan. He had a free ride. To his credit he didn't have a Lund, he couldn't afford one either. HAHAHAH

[Fuzzy]

;) good one!
Actually I read that Uday and Qusay ordered a fleet of Lunds to troll the Tigres for nile perch. But they had the fleet executed when they
got wave spray on their faces. ;)

[just a fisherman]

I know for a fact they get the data directly from the PWT and RCL, they told me so when I asked where they were getting the muskie data. IMHO questioning where the data comes from is pretty weak, who cares, they get it from the source. Another interesting fact is that alot of recent improvement you see on this site - photo albums, the "boneyard" (although you may not be able to call that an improvement), their databasing of articles, are in direct response to what the other guys are doing and, by the way, did first. This stuff would have never been done had there not been pressure from the other site. So in the end the competition is good for the guy like me who wants to learn about and follow walleye fishing on the internet.

walleyes are ok but muskies rock