THE SUNLIGHT TEST

[DICK AT GENETRON]

IN RESPONSE TO ANOTHER CALLER REGARDING SUNLIGHT ON A SCREEN. THIS IS THE SUPREME TEST TO SEE IF YOU CAN SEE A SONAR SCREEN IN SUNLIGHT BEFORE YOU BUY. GO SHOPPING FOR A SONAR ON A CLEAR SUNNY DAY!!! BRING A SMALL 12 VOLT BATTERY WITH YOU. GO TO THE SPORTSHOW OR DEALER AND ASK THEM TO COME OUTSIDE WITH YOU WITH THE SONAR YOU ARE THINKING OF BUYING. HOOK THE SONAR UP(YOU SHOULD ALSO ATTACH A DUCER)TO THE POWER SOURCE AND AIM THE SCREEN AT THE SUN. CAN YOU SEE IT OR CAN'T YOU!!!! THIS TEST MIGHT TAKE A WHOLE 10 MINUTES TO TRY. I REMEMBER A FELLOW WHO HAD PURCHASED A COLOR UNIT AND HAD JUST INSTALLED IT AT A TOURNAMENT. HE CALLED ME OVER TO SHOW ME HIS NEW UNIT. HE WAS STANDING BEHIND THE BOAT AND HAD JUST HOOKED IT TO THE BATTERY AND YELLED AT ME TO TURN THE UNIT ON. I TOLD HIM THE UNIT WAS ALREADY ON. EXPENSIVE LESSON!!!! REMEMBER THIS .INDOOR LIGHTING AND FLASHLIGHTS DO NOT COUNT IN THIS TEST. ONLY SUNLIGHT!!!!!! DICK AT GENETRON

[stevefellegy]

So...is it the heat from the sun that blacks out the screen or is the sun a different type of light than the indoor light(flashlight) in some fashion. Probably a dumb question but I just gotta know...why the difference?

[Terroreyes]

I'd say it's lumens or brightness. Hit one with a 1/2 million candle power spotlight and it will do the same thing. Do it all the time when I'm on the other side of the boat and hear a beep. The spectrum or type of light may play into it. ALL man made lights do a pretty poor job of reproducing natural light no matter what the label says. Most are EXTREMELY yellow. The blue/violet end of the spectrum is what we have a real problem reproducing while maintaining natural levels of the other areas. I have to keep my 400 watt metal halide lamp about 6" from the water surface in my coral tank to just make a descent reproduction of the intesity of the natural sunlight and back it up with ultra-violet bulbs to boost the blue/violet end of the spectrum.
[br][div align="center"][br][center][br][font color="#3300CC";font face="Roman"; size="+1"][br]When I take to the water [br]there's terror in the [br] [font color="red"; size="+3"; font face="webdings"] N N

[DICK AT GENETRON]

GOOD QUESTIONS. SUNLIGHT IS THE FULL SPECTRUM OF LIGHT WHILE INCANDESCENT(TYPICAL LIGHT BULBS) AND OTHER SPECIALTY LIGHTING ARE VERY NARROW BAND AND LACK THE INTENSITY OF THE SUN. THAT IS WHY YOU CANNOT EVEN PROJECT MUCH OF A LIGHT WITH A FLASHLIGHT WHEN THE SUN IS SHINING. THAT IS WHY SUNLIGHT IS THE ONLY REAL TEST WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT SCREEN WILL WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. AS FAR AS SCREENS BLANKING OUT IN HEAT OR COLD(LCD TYPE SCREENS) IS A RESULT OF THE MANUFACTURER USING CHEAP SCREENS OR CHIPS THAT ARE SUBJECT TO FAILING AT RATHER HIGH OR LOW AMBIENT TEMPS. CHIPS AND SCREENS ARE RATED FOR TEMP VARIANCES( COMMERCIAL,INDUSTRIAL,AND MILITARY GRADING SYSTEM). THE HIGHER THE GRADE THE HIGHER AND LOWER TEMPS THEY CAN SUSTAIN. THE COST ALSO GOES UP SUBSTANTIALLY THE HIGHER THE GRADE RATING. I DID A POST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO ABOUT CHIPS ON WC. MAYBE READING THAT WILL ALSO HELP GIVING YOU SOME MORE INFO. DICK AT GENETRON

[Todd_NE]

With a color unit and a Genetron on a boat last year we could see eyes nosed into the bottom, by rocks, and in timber by color variation on the Lowrance stuff (x-19 and x-104). Couldn't do that on the Genetron. I was excited to see one used last year and I did for 200-250 hours of fishing time. Myself, I'd rather have a good color unit or probably even an X-15.

I'm not knocking the Genetron, just pointing out an alternate view. I'm not on any electronic pro staffs.

Todd
Oh yeah... I stuck her good... Feel that head shake...

Walleye boats don't qualify as dinghy's in Cabo

No... I meant to leave the back straps on. I wanted to see if the boat would float the trailer.

[Sunshine]

Dick has an eye sight problem and has difficulty seeing/typing the letters unless they are capitalized.

Please get over it. His valuable insight far outweighs the very little inconvenience of reading CAPS.

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK DICK

[perchjerker]

Someone should tell Dick about the handicapped settings for problems like his in Windows. I know a person that did the same thing, until he changed his settings. Now he can easily see everything and it all looks normal to others.

Maybe Dick does know about this and it doesnt help. If that the case, my apologies.

[stevefellegy]

So....with all this hands on experience...which is a welcomed basis for your comments and observations, per the original thread subject...can you see the screen well in mid-day sunlight from most any angle? I ask this as I see Lowrance(last year) is saying (warning) that difficulty could occur when used in bright sunlight.
I have zero experience on the water with these recent units so I don't know...
I was not happy with the color screen on a video graph I have used over the years (in the sun).

[FreeByrd]

I can't comment on the Lowrance screens, but the new "Hi Brite" screens introduced last year by Raymarine are impressive in the direct sunlight. A noticible improvement over an already pretty good screen in sunlight. I'm talking about the 2 year old L760 compared to the 1 year old new 770D screen. These are LCD screens with the new ones being TFT screens. I have the two units mounted side by side on my console and the improvement is amazing.

Steve Carlson

[Todd_NE]

>So....with all this hands on experience...which is a welcomed
>basis for your comments and observations, per the original
>thread subject...can you see the screen well in mid-day
>sunlight from most any angle? I ask this as I see
>Lowrance(last year) is saying (warning) that difficulty could
>occur when used in bright sunlight.
>I have zero experience on the water with these recent units so
>I don't know...
>I was not happy with the color screen on a video graph I have
>used over the years (in the sun).

1. I would guess approximately 288 hours with the Genetron and X19 or 104 side by side on a console last year on the water. I realize most guys, especially with windshields, don't have a big enough dash to mount a Genetron.

2. Yes, we could see the color unit info with no problems. We do have a bit of sunlight and glare out here in Nebraska and South Dakota. To say we NEVER cupped our hands at any of the units, Genetron included, would be foolish. Maybe I have good sunglasses.

3. I am NOT knocking the Genetron, just pointing out an alternative view. I can see where people would love their Genetrons, just wasn't something I would spend equal $$ on over a good color unit because as I originally said I like the color because I can separate targets from their environment easier.

Todd
Oh yeah... I stuck her good... Feel that head shake...

Walleye boats don't qualify as dinghy's in Cabo

No... I meant to leave the back straps on. I wanted to see if the boat would float the trailer.

[Mexico]

Steve,

Are you running those units in an open boat or under a top?

I'll agree that in direct sunlight, if I am really trying to see something small, I have to put a hand over (or some sort of shadow) on the Genetron. My bow mount Genetron has a new bracket being made so I can point the unit straight up and still see it.

Todd,

I'm really envious that you have had the experieince to see both hands on side by side. Did both units seem to perform equally? Did you fish really shallow water and were the targets similar? Did the targets appear the same size and shape? The reason I ask is that my Genetron is mounted next to a Garmin 168 on the dash (can't use the Genie at night on the dash, I'll go blind LOL) and the Garmin shows lots of fish, not as good of target sep, and also nothing in the top 15 foot of the water column, well, not as much.

The 104 really has my curiousity up.

Thanks,

[FreeByrd]

Mexico,
I do have a T-Top on the Center console, but the units are mounted directly above the steering wheel, not in an electronics box - probally a good 3-4 feet below the T-Top. It does provide some shade, but depending on the direction I'm headed I definitely have times of direct sunlight. The old screen is tough to see in these conditions, but no problem with the new screen (770D with Hi Brite TFT). I think I have a picture I can email you that shows my console layout.
Steve

[Mexico]

Very cool, love to see it, thanks.

[Todd_NE]

Steve,

I didn't reply to the original thread to promote the 104. This thread caught my attention because we seem to get these the same time every year and I thought the board was supposed to be used by manufacturers to respond to questions on the board.

The best thing about the 104 is the screen is HUGE. It's like having a big screen TV in your boat. If you haven't seen one physically, it's almost imposing. We usually ran it in split screen to watch the bottom and higher fish. We did like most guys, fished 5-70' last year.

I'm saying this as politely as possible, personally, I liked the 19 or 104 better BUT I could see how others may not. Like all this stuff, it's personal opinion and what needs you have. I fish a lot of rocks, steep points, and fish suspended in Cottonwood trees - color separation can really help. I think Parsons may have commented on his 104 really helping him win at Lake Oahe last year fishing suspended fish in tree tops.

Again - I'm not on any of these guys staffs, buddy, or anything else. Point of fact, I wish Pinpoint would come up with some new stuff. I loved the history screens, networking to eliminate interference, fast scroll, etc. I WISH they'd come out with a some high pixel, good screen, fast scroll color units that network!

Todd
"Coaches are over-rated." Nebraska AD Steve Pederson
"AD's shouldn't be coach wannabes" Nebraska Alum Todd Consbruck

[Mexico]

Todd,

Thanks for sharing your observations. I can see where the 104 may really be a better unit in some situations than other units. The cone angle, frequency, and power of the unit are all concerns that I personally have.

If the unit works and can sep targets with colors that is huge IMHO.

I'm not sure we'll ever get anyone on the boards from some of the other places, it is really too bad. I've seen an engineer from Techsonic and some techs from Garmin, but I am not sure they had the experience that Genetron has when sharing. The Techsonic engineer shared some great info.

In the past, I think some were afraid to share their opinions or facts because of the nameless bashing, THAT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. If anyone wants to come on and share about their product, it will be watched very carefully for disrespectful comments or bashing.

Thanks for your input,

[DICK AT GENETRON]

I THINK WHAT I INTENDED TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THIS THREAD IS THAT "YOU!!!!" THE CONSUMER DO THIS TEST. THIS IS AN EASY TEST WHERE "YOU" CAN DECIDE FOR YOURSELF WHAT UNITS WORK BEST IN AN OPEN BOAT IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT. SOME OTHER HINTS THAT YOU SHOULD DO WHEN DOING THIS TEST IS TO STEP TO THE SIDE OF THE SONAR ,CAN YOU SEE THE SCREEN FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES( DUPLICATING THE REAL WORLD ON A BOAT) OR DO YOU HAVE TO BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF IT? CAN YOU SEE THE SCREEN WEARING POLARIZED SUNGLASSES? DO THESE TESTS "YOURSELF!!!!" BE A SMART SHOPPER AND COMPARE DIFFERENT SONAR UNITS APPLES TO APPLES WHEN IT COMES TO VIEWING A SONAR IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT. AFTER COMPARING, "YOU" CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION ABOUT WHAT FITS YOUR NEEDS( PARTICULARLY IF YOU FISH IN AN OPEN BOAT) BASED ON TESTING THAT "YOU" HAVE DONE. DICK AT GENETRON

[Todd_NE]

I agree, but with one caveat. The angler should look at the units ON the water with the units mounted where they would be mounted in his or her boat.

Todd
"If you're gonna fire a coach, you better have one already hired. And he should be better than the one you fired." The advice of Frank Broyles. Did NU AD Steve Pederson miss that memo?

[Tennessee Jed]

>"If you're gonna fire a coach, you better have one already
>hired. And he should be better than the one you fired." The
>advice of Frank Broyles. Did NU AD Steve Pederson miss that
>memo?

I wish y'all HAD taken Houston off our hands!!! Frank must have said that quote 30 years ago, because he hasn't said anything nearly that intellectual in three decades!

Tennessee Jed, an Arkansas resident and Razorback fan.

[bladerunner]

What does this have to do w/ his post??? Your speaking of him being "rude/ignorant", yet you don't even put your user name in your response to his post (it's called gall or audacity). Someone is being rude alright. Thanks for the info Dick.

p.s.
At least have the nerve to put your name if your a registered user. Besides, the man shouldn't have to explain himself. Nit-pickers like you burn me up....


My sincerest apologies to the moderators for my derogatory response.

[Atomic Eye]

Todd,
Info on PinPoint. PinPoint has introduced a new sonar unit this year. It goes by the name,"PR 320." I don't have any info on it. It's listed in the new Bass Pro catalog, but without specifications / features mentioned. It's probably a lot like the 7520, but has some different connectors on it. This is supposed to be the only PinPoint unit manufactured this year.

PinPoints have no problem in discerning fish in shallow water. If anybody is interested, I can try to e-mail them a file I transferred from my PinPoint 7520 into my PC of a moving fish, I guess it to be a carp, in ~9' deep water. PinPoint has a feature wherein you can electronically store up to 6 screens into memory. If you get the optional ViewSaver interface, you can either download these pictures from your sonar screens into your PC or upload files, like Precision trolling tables, into the sonar unit for reference.

Seeing fish in shallow depth is not an issue for PinPoints. However, they have had problems with screen darkening when they get overheated by very bright sunlight. This has been my only source of frustration with my PinPoints.

The screen on my 7520 is sufficiently wide that I usualy use it in a split screen mode with 1/2 screen showing only that 10' of depth that I'm interested in seeing in zoom mode. If I had mounted a 2nd transducer on the bow mount electric, I could display the outputs of both in my bow & console screens without having to rubber neck to try to see the other one. This is a nice feature.


Atomic Eye (New Mexico) -- "Gone Fission!" ~~~<}}}:>

[Atomic Eye]

QUESTION:

Which other sonar units, besides PinPoint, are capable of downloading into a PC so that the screen pictures can be e-mailed to others. This provides an independenat assessment on what can be seen. I don't mean photos of sonar units with a digital or regular camera, but actual screen captures.

To me, this is the direct comparison of "... what you see on the water (Dick's original intent in this thread) vs what you've paid for."


Atomic Eye (New Mexico) -- "Gone Fission!" ~~~<}}}:>

[perchjerker]

An x-15 will. My buddy emails me them all the time.

[New units]

Was on Mille Lacs last summer fishin a flat, I was about 50 yards behind I guy I know I was moving faster than he was so I was gaining. I got 15 or yards from him and could read his 104 like it was in my boat this was on a very sunny day! I am ordering a new boat as we speak, I have to have that unit! I was able to get him to give me a really good look at it, I was so impressed I never even asked him the cost! I see the cost now and I did'nt even blink after seeing it run on the water.

[Greg Walters]

Mexico,

I still come by here to check for questions on Humminbird products but don't have the time to look through all the new posts like I used to. I usually just do a search and try and answer those that come up that way. I had a little free time before a meeting this morning and looked a few posts that I normally don't have the time to look at and had to post a few comments of my own.

Dick (Genetron) has a very good point about looking at the displays of your electronic equipment (not just sonar units) outside in the real world sunlight. A point that he may not be aware of is that many companies run their units differently while in the simulator mode. This is done to impress the consumer who is looking at it in a store with lighting that we all know isn't equal to good ole Sol (Sunlight). As others have stated, the best place to see how the display will look in full sunlight would be on a boat, in the same operational mode and lighting conditions that you would use while fishing. This is THE TEST to perform if you really want to compare units. There was a link in another post that went to an article that compared the viewability of different color units in the simulator mode under a T-top - not the way I would have done it.

Having said all of that, I can say that I have had our color unit out on the water in full sunlight and could see it in all directions and oientations except for when the sun was being reflected directly back into my eyes - polarized glasses or not, it was always viewable. I would like to hear from any that may have this unit that have not had the same experience.

Greg Walters
gwalters@techsonic.com

[Mexico]

Greg,

Thanks for letting us know.

You've always done a good job at helping people out.

One question I have for you that seems tough to find in the literature from almost anyone is what is the widest cone angle that any Techsonic unit will produce and still yield good target identification? One of the biggest reasons I like the Genetron is that it yields a very wide cone angle and enables e to identify targets high in the water column and also in very shallow water.

When I had my Legend (Zercom) units, I was very happy with them, but they obviously had there limitations once you start comparing them to higher priced units, apples to oranges.

Thanks,

[Guest II]

Dick,
Lets cut to the chase here. Do you in your honest opinion think that your unit is better than the 104 [my choices have been come down to your unit and Lowrances 104], and if you do, what are the reasons behind your decision in stating that it is. Give us a comparison between the two that we might make an informed decision in our choice in making a purchase.
Another thing is, I've emailed you 3 times asking for a brochure and or any information you might have in my process of choosing a unit this year.
I have yet to get a response back from you about your product.
Let me hear the deal closer here from you in representing your unit in retrospect to Lowrances, I'd like to make my decision this week.

Still hopefull in NY

[Greg Walters]

Mexico,

"good target identification"? While there are several factors that can change what an individual may perceive this to be while on the water, the widest cone angle we currently make would be in our Matrix 37 unit - 90 degree coverage side to side. This is accomplished by using a multiple beam transducer.

Humminbird has been specifying our transducer beam angles at the -10db point because that is what we have measured as the more realistic beam width that fishermen see targets at. Why spec a -3db or -6db beam width when your product can show targets out to the -10db point? I'm not saying that we are any better than other manufacturers (they don't buy me any of the competitors units to play with), I'm just saying that I feel we use a more real world specification for this.

Greg Walters

[Mexico]

Guest II,

I can tell you that my biggest "like" for my Genetron is the 74 degree cone angle. You can look at a lot of other factors, but when it comes down to you picking a "fish finder" the more area you cover the better the unit, IMHO.

I'm not trying to close the deal for you, but calling Dick out like this may not be the best way to find your answers.

If you need some more specific info on the Genetron, I have collected a lot over time and would be happy to fax it to you.

Good luck,

[Mexico]

Greg,

Before we get too far off the topic here, this post is about to go down in flames, I'd like to start another post asking you to explain how cone angle can affect a sonar and also explain what my thoughts are.

Maybe we can get some goo facts gathered that I have had a hard time finding.

Thanks,

[DICK AT GENETRON]

GUEST11. FOR STARTERS, IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, I AM GOING TO REFER YOU TO THE NEW MARCH 2004 ISSUE OF CONSUMER REPORTS PAGE 18. I AM GOING TO START A NEW POST REGARDING THIS INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF DISPLAY SCREENS RATHER THAN BLOWING OUR OWN HORN AND SAYING WE TOLD YOU SO YEARS AGO. DICK GENETRON

[hawg]

In Lowrance ads they refer to the 104 as a full TFT screen. The smaller X100, the one in my price range is a 1/4 TFT. Any comment on what that means?

[hawg]

In Lowrance ads they refer to the 104 as a full TFT screen. The smaller X100, the one in my price range is a 1/4 TFT. Any comment on what that means?

[Sunlight Sam]

Greg Walters: "and could see it in all directions and orientations except for when the sun was being reflected directly back into my eyes "

You will find that all color is based on temperature of light wave striking the color object. What is red in high reflective tempurature (bright light) may be orange in cooler reflective temperature and brown in colder reflective temperature and etc...

The same holds true for everything in cluding grey which becomes black in even lower reflective temperature.

Same type of thing occures in the water with lures, as you all likely recall. However, to better understand the phenomenon, consider your computer monitor. It produces light at temperatures of between 6500k and 9300k. Sunlight is 5800k on average. However, your monitor similarly your locator basically shines light onto a surface that absorbs and diffuses light. As this occurs, different colors emerge based on temperature of light waves as they relate to diffusion.

Now consider that you are "splashing" direct sunlight onto the surface of the same diffusing object... the screen. When that happens, the screen is receiving varying temperatures of light from the front and rear of the screen. Superheating the screen so that at varying angles it appears as different colors. Even works this way with grey shading.

The point is, that "in direct sunlight" is a mis-statement as no screen is readable in direct sunlight short of having a shade mechanism to reduce or remove the excessive light. In some cases, this is built into a screen by various processes. But the actual "direct sunlight test" will be failed by all screens that experience "true" direct sunlight without shading. Not to be too technical, but for more information on sun and temperature, read on:

The surface of the sun is at about 5300K. The effective colour temperature of sunlight is a little higher than that for a variety of reasons, but is about 5800 to 6000K by the time it hits our atmosphere. Scattering in the atmosphere makes the sky blue instead of black, and this blue light, when mixed/added to the direct sunlight lifts the effective colour temperature further. General consensus holds that the mean median sunlight temperature is 6500K (D65). This temperature can rise hugely to over 40,000K if there are thunderclouds in the sky. I suggest you look at Wysecki and Stiles, Section 1.1.

Here are a few crude, perhaps simplifying, comments on the issue of duplicating natural light.

The sun radiates like a blackbody at about 5800K. There is significant energy from 0.2 to 2.0 microns. We see from about 0.4 to 0.8 microns, which spans the peak of the blackbody curve. When sunlight hits the Earth's atmosphere not much in the visible range is absorbed, but it is scattered, and the scattering is a function of wavelength.

Rayleigh scattering:

Rayleigh scattering occurs when the scatters (air molecules) are smaller than the wavelength of light. It turns out that the phase function of Rayleigh scattering preferentially extracts the blue wavelengths from the collimated sunlight and makes the sky appear blue and the sun appear yellow to an Earthbound observer. So a white piece if paper appears white because it is illuminated by the direct yellow solar beam and the diffuse blue light. The illumination therefore is what you would get if you had a 5800K source. This is the nominal case for clear skies in midday.

On the other hand, if the solar beam is blocked by a sharply-defined cloud (like a thunderhead) the remaining illumination will have a larger proportion of blue. From a radiometry standpoint it is simply a 5800K Planck blackbody curve with the longer wavelengths filtered out. Photometry is a shamelessly autocentric system that weights the radiometric quantities by the human eye's response. Using this system one would need a blackbody illuminant of much higher temperature to get the visible blue-to-red ratio of the blocked beam case, 9000k-40,000K sounds quite plausable. This could be accomplished by filtering a practical source. Note also that since most of the light energy is in the nonscattered solar beam, when it is blocked, the remaining illumination is much dimmer (i.e. shade).

Nonselective scattering:

If it is overcast, then the illumination is pretty much back to the 5800K illuminant situation because the water droplets in clouds are much bigger than the wavelength of visible light, and therefore scatter nonselectively. Cloud cover is illuminated from above and scatters and absorbs the blue and yellow light equally. The light is dimmer, but white.

Mie scattering:

Finally, if there are dust particles in the air that are about the same size as the light wavelengths there will be Mie scattering. The amount of Mie scattering has a complicated dependence on wavelength and can generate the spectacular colors of a sunset: with the long path length through the atmosphere. Sunsets occur more strongly after fires and volcanic eruptions when there is more dust. The equivalent photometric illuminant temperature during a sunset could be lower or higher than 5800K. I have seen many red, but also purple sunsets.

Let's outline what one might see from a plane at 35000 feet ~ 10.7 km on a clear day. Look up and away from the sun. One sees a bright blue sky - even though the air is much thinner. To my eyes, the sky is just as bright as it is on the surface - maybe a little brighter. Look down and away from the sun - or any other direction for that matter - again - to my eyes - even at the most oblique angles, there is no bluish tint except possibly over water or above the horizon - even though the air has far greater density below than above.

Molecules of nitrogen and oxygen are not very polarizable and the quantity of blue light scattered through large angles will be small. The usual explanation of why we see a blue sky despite this is that there are a lot of air molecules and the sun is bright. OK - then why do we see the brightest blue when we look up (where the air density is low) and virtually none looking down in any direction (where the air density is far greater)? It would appear that most of the blue light is scattered from the most rarified portions of the atmosphere.

An alternative explanation is that fluctuations in density are the source of a large fraction of the scattering. These become most pronounced at large (delta N)/N. Such a quantity increases at higher altitudes. Light scattering from density fluctuations occurs near critical points. Is it unreasonable to suppose that fluctuations can scatter light from the upper atmosphere? After all, there will be a lot of fluctuations and the sun is bright... :-)

[hawg]

WOW!

[Sunlight Sam]

Now that you have a better understanding of light diffusion and temperature variance, consider the varying forms of screens that get touted as better or best.

The more sunlight that stikes a light gun projection system on the screen, the less you will see as the temperature of the reflective screen is effected by both sides and changes its color appearance if you can even see anything at all. You all know what your tv looks like when the sun hits it through the window, correct? The same holds true for any tv/monitor type of locator.

LCD and plasma screens work similarly in that in a Liquid Crystal Display, the solution is heated to temperatures that create the needed light temperature to illuminate the colors they want to display including grey and black.

Plasma is a similar process that is heating a gasous atmosphere instead of a liquid atmosphere.

Direct sunlight also effects these screens in the same fasion as it overtakes the atmosphere produced by the unit.

However, remember that at varying angles, the screen is reflected to you at different temperatures which allows some proper display at various angles... which is why when the screen is facing the direction of the sun, you get inbetween the sun and screen to produce the shade, or look from an angle and partially see some of the screen.

The newer technology today depends on the ability of the screen to provide and shading mechanism to create a natural shading barrier built into the screen. Still, it the anlge is adjusted to high, the direct light will still wash out the screens appearance to you.

Pun intended, they are ALL in the same boat! No one excessivly better than the other.

[Pete L.]

Perhaps if the moderator were impartial to the subject, the thread would not go down in flames. You do own a Genetron. Perhaps a different moderator should decide the fate of this thread.

[FlyBoy]

What he said.

[Pete L.]

Internet Explorer: Tools - View - Test Size - Large. Its that simple.

I always wondered why he needs to type in caps to see what he types while he can read responses in regular type successfully. Not cutting on him, just curious how?

I believe in a post some time ago it was explained that someone else reads the responses to him, not sure though. Still, if he is typing his own responses and can see the caps, then changing the text size to large on his browser is a must!

[Pete L.]

Actually that should have read:

Internet Explorer: VIEW - TEXT SIZE - LARGEST

[Jim Ordway]

Pete L. and others,
Lets just drop the pick on DICK AT GENETRON. Dick has explained the reason for caps for years and years. We all understand. Move along and just listen to the message. Everytime someone shows up new, we end up with the same PC rubbish. Get over it and leave DICK alone. Even thought many may not use or care for his product, he is always good enough to share industry information and a few good fishing stories. I never see him chiming in complaining about housekeeping issues.
I am not sure why I felt compelled to write this, but I do feel better.
Take care,