Advertising on my Boat.

[sevenmmm]

Last year had a deal with a local marina who sold me a motor at a discount, in return for their name on the side of my boat. The owner seemed happy with the deal through-out the year as I personnally took the time to report on all my tournament experiences.

Today, have approached him about his continuing this advertisement, but since I will not be needing a new motor, or further rigging, have asked for some monetary help.

The problem is, we couldn't quantify what this is worth to him. Does anyone have an idea what a torunament angler - fishing 5 MWC events, and a number of local events - is worth to this Marina Business?

After this, what price should be paid for smaller advertisements?

[sevenmmm]

Last year had a deal with a local marina who sold me a motor at a discount, in return for their name on the side of my boat. The owner seemed happy with the deal through-out the year as I personnally took the time to report on all my tournament experiences.

Today, have approached him about his continuing this advertisement, but since I will not be needing a new motor, or further rigging, have asked for some monetary help.

The problem is, we couldn't quantify what this is worth to him. Does anyone have an idea what a torunament angler - fishing 5 MWC events, and a number of local events - is worth to this Marina Business?

After this, what price should be paid for smaller advertisements?

[DUDE]

Do you have business cards with your name and the marina's name on it? If not get some and make sure you hand them out to anyone you talk to and send to the marina. That way the marina will know how much business you are sending his way. The only down side to this is that nobody shows up with your name or card, and the marina thinks you are doing absolutly nothing for him. So if you do this make sure you talk to people who are interested in anything the marina can offer them....

[DUDE]

Do you have business cards with your name and the marina's name on it? If not get some and make sure you hand them out to anyone you talk to and send to the marina. That way the marina will know how much business you are sending his way. The only down side to this is that nobody shows up with your name or card, and the marina thinks you are doing absolutly nothing for him. So if you do this make sure you talk to people who are interested in anything the marina can offer them....

[Trophy]

When you talk with people tell them to tell the owner that "Rick" sent you there. See how many people actually buy from him, and split the profit somehow on customers that you sent him. You are in effect being a salesman for the guy, and you should get a little piece of the pie. If he doesn't want to work something out, remove his ad.

[Trophy]

When you talk with people tell them to tell the owner that "Rick" sent you there. See how many people actually buy from him, and split the profit somehow on customers that you sent him. You are in effect being a salesman for the guy, and you should get a little piece of the pie. If he doesn't want to work something out, remove his ad.

[sevenmmm]

Good advice.

But can anyone quantify what an ad would be worth, without handing out cards, or personally sending a sponsor customers?

There needs to be some standard that one can plug into in helping to determine a price. Something like buying advertising in a magazine where they charge by the column inch.

[sevenmmm]

Good advice.

But can anyone quantify what an ad would be worth, without handing out cards, or personally sending a sponsor customers?

There needs to be some standard that one can plug into in helping to determine a price. Something like buying advertising in a magazine where they charge by the column inch.

[Burr]

Great question Rick. I don't know if there is going to be a way to provide a real precise answer. Lot's of good ideas, I like the idea of you having business cards to give to people you talk with, to eventually be presented at the marine.

You may already have a way to try to quantify the advertising space. I would start with looking at the discount you achieved last year on your purchase with them. That may be a good starting, or proposal point.

The true value to keep in mind, and discuss with this sponsor, is your desire to have an enduring relationship. To accomplish an enduring relationship 3 items come to mind.

1. Let your sponsor know that you are first and formost concerned with representing products and services you truly believe in - such as his.

2. The relationship must be based on a solid long term formula to work / provide value for both you and him.

3. The best way to acheive satisfaction by both you and your sponsor, is to assure you have good, repetitive, regular communication. If there are ever any concerns by either party, encourage that concern to be communicated promptly so you can work out a solution together.

Your future sponsors will first look to your ability to properly manage a long term sponsorship agreement. The greatest value this sponsor MAY bring to your future will be the sponsorships it will allow you to access. A successful relationship is the most critical issue you have.

Other value considerations concern any time you spend directly representing the sponsor at boat shows and in-store time. You could 'offer' to supply a guided trip the marine could work into their sales program. I.E. All new boat purchasers through June 30 are entered into a drawing for a Customer VIP guided fishing trip with local pro Rick Larson!

Check your email.

[Jigging 5]

Rick,
That is a tough question. Do you think you will draw some business for this dealer? If so I would say it would be worth a couple entry fee's. The lettering on your boat will cost you something. If it were me I would be passing out some business cards with my name on them also. You have to make it worth every penny he gives you. I have started small and worked up with some of my sponsors. The key is to prove you are a viable representative for them. Then things will became easier to obtain good sponsorships. Sorry, I couldn't help more.

[JLDII]

Rick,

Consider this, as opposed to asking for money, which most people don't want to give out anyway, discuss with him the idea of an even better deal on your next motor. Maybe a motor at his cost. Maybe a service package for the motor included. If you got your boat from him, you could think about him maybe including a detail job on the boat when you want to sell it. I think you understand where I'm going with this. There are many things a dealer will usually be happy to do for a good rep in leu of money. Be open minded but, don't let him sell you short of what you are worth to him.

Good Luck,

[brand names]

In all honesty it is worth something if your name is "hosehold" problem is it really will give the owner nothing. A sticker on the side of a boat that no one knows is really worth nothing. Now if your truck and boat were wrapped in the dealers names then even if your not a household name the product is very visable, people cant help but look. This dealer gains nothing by you informing him of you tournaments. Unless you can pull your boat on stage if you cash a check. In a parking lot full of nice rigs, sticks on the side are not going to stand out! Full wraps standout!

[Fishtail]

How many boats did you help him sell?
Thats what he's looking for.

[Rob-eye]

It really comes down to how much business did you or will you bring to him. How many boats did you sell for him? If that answers is none, I would question if the name of the motor is worth anything to the dealer at all. Name on motor does little for me in getting my attention as a consumer. Business card idea is right on and the advertising wrap idea very good. You need to start bringing the dealer some business to justify a cash sponsor in my opinion. I like JLD's idea if you can't quantify business you have brought to him.

[Toolman]

I may be a little off track here, but I think most of you are comparing the monetary value directly to name recognition, wins on the "big" tours, etc. Being a "top" name would certainly command more $/sq inch for ad space. Rick may be asking how to quantify a monetary value based on a a sign on a nice looking rig that will be seen over thousands of miles in 4 or 5 states and maybe even on TV a couple of times in the MWC. Even if he isn't a "household" name in the walleye world advertising on the side of his boat is worth something.

I drive by billboards along the road daily. It seems the space on them is certainly worth something, or the property owners would not lease the land to the billboard companies to put up the billboards in the first place. In essence, Rick's boat, even though it doesn't belong to one of the "top" names, probably still looks pretty nice and is certainly visable.

I do agree with the others that a business card to hand out to people that you talk to about the engine haning on the back is a good idea. maybe work a deal with the dealer that he would give a small discount if the customer presented the card at the time of sale.

You might call an ad agency and see if they have a rate for advertising on something you could compare (airplane banners, small roadside signs, etc) to give you a start.

Tim

[early007]

Hi Rick, I run a business that gets sponsorships request quite often and here is what I usually tell them. You need to show me that you are giving something to me first. Too many anglers just want handouts. Every angler thinks they should be paid for slapping a sticker on the side of their boat. Nobody outside of your small tournament circuit has any idea who you are. Money contributions are few and far between even for the anglers on the major circuits like the PWT and RCL. Offer to take time out of your schedule during his busiest weekends to help sell boats for him. Anglers that get monetary sponsorships usually spend a lot of time working, in a sense, for the companies. The business cards and asking for deals on upcoming boats and motors is good advice. Good Luck!

Jason

[sevenmmm]

Ok, am getting the message that some believe it is not worth to much just for a sticker on the side of the boat. However, do think there is some value to this on its own merit.

Toolman has come closest to answering my question. If there is value to putting a sign on a billboard, there has to be value in an advertisement on my boat. Even more so - as the fisherman I know have their head on a swivel gawking at every boat cruising down the highway.

Now, am not asking what value I have (or lack thereof) in this equation. Just looking for some answers as to what a pure advertisement will have and how can this be justified to a potential advertiser?

[love them eyes guy]

Ask the dealer what a ad costs in a local magazine like Outdoor news or Midwest outdoors. Maybe you can do some slick talking, and get him to give you that amount! One month in the publication reaches so many people, you might get that many people to look at your rig over the course of the year.

The biggest problem is that when your going down the road the only ones that will even care are fishermen, so really 1 of every 100 cars woulds even see the sticker. You would be worth more to the dealer if you game him hands on help or at the very least some good referals of customers.

[sevenmmm]

>Ask the dealer what a ad costs in a local magazine like
>Outdoor news or Midwest outdoors. Maybe you can do some slick
>talking, and get him to give you that amount! One month in the
>publication reaches so many people, you might get that many
>people to look at your rig over the course of the year.
>
> The biggest problem is that when your going down the road the
>only ones that will even care are fishermen, so really 1 of
>every 100 cars woulds even see the sticker. You would be worth
>more to the dealer if you game him hands on help or at the
>very least some good referals of customers.



Exactly right!

What better way for an advertiser who targets fisherman to get their message out! The occupants in the other 99 cars have little interest...

[rangerpat]

Rick, just about every response you received answered your question, not just toolman. Maybe they didn't answer it with what you wanted to hear but their answers are very accurate.

If you want cash be prepared to donate your time & your boat. It is easier to get product by being a person with the gift of gab, but even then they usually want commitment. It will start out being lopsided to their advantage until you are a drawing force. Then after however long a period of time it takes for you to turn heads, things hopefully will start to swing your way. Pat

[early007]

Depending on the decals you have in mind for your boat, your sponsor may only be willing to pay for the decals the first year, the following years maybe more. Really a relationship needs to be established between you and your sponsors. If you scratch their back they'll scratch yours. My advice is take what you can get and don't ask for too much. Advertising has different values to every business. It depends on where they get their business from and who they cater to. One of the anglers I sponsor on the PWT has my decals on his boat. He spends a little time at my business and will make an appearance or two during the season. I will give him maybe $200-$300 this season. That is what happens even at the highest level. I hope this gives you a clearer picture. Good Luck.

Jason

[billboards]

The value of billboards does very little to help with this. Billboards are priced at about $0.05 per thousand impressions...and that's for a billboard 15 feet high and 50 feet wide.

[sevenmmm]

Yeah yeah Pat, do see their point and will agree with most of the answers. Just so you know, my thoughts have been provoked by a recent thread discussing "impressions".

Now, I am only trying to establish whether there is value in just the advertising on the boat without alot of personal involvement. 'Me is beginning to think' that I'm barking up the wrong tree on this. However, there has to be some value to businesses in having a rolling advertisement on a boat that will turn heads. And its just not for a main sponsor like the Marina I ask about, but with other businesses in the area. You know, like a smaller ad spots you see on many of the big time personalities vehicle and boat.

So just for the sake of asking, how about asking 100 bucks for a small spot on my boat to advertise their business - a fair price? And is there any information I can point to that will qualify these impressions with my advertising customers?

Wouldn't it be swell for there to be a standard for us newbie anglers to look too and help establish us with sponsors?

[more power to you]

The sticker boats are a thing of the past! People laugh when they see that stuff anymore. Sponsors want more these days. Please dont embarass yourself and posible sponsors with little sticks all over you boat. Sponsors like it when they are visible, sticks all over give them zero exposure. Billboards target 1 sponsor because they get the total billboard and not just a liile corner mixed with others. Market yourself not your boat thats how its done these days.

[JLDII]

Rick,

One thing that I have learned is the value of being involved with good causes, which in turn increase your value to a "sponsor". This year, I am going to be contributing to the Cerebal Palsy Telethon in Green Bay, and answering phones this weekend,( everybody please read the pinned posting Dave Landahl has given this cause please!!) Alzhiemers Foundation, Childrens Miricle Network, Camp Confidence (Confidence Learning Center). All these causes give my sponsors great exposure which they appreciate and welcome. WHY? Because of the association it gives to both me, and them as my sponsor. That opens a different market than most forms of advertising a boat and motor would reach, and those you are reaching respect you for your efforts, and thusly respect and appreciate your sponsors.

One of the biggest factors for most people willing to consider sponsoring a fisherman is, "Who or what can this person do for me that the next guy can't, or won't do for me?". Set yourself apart from the rest of the field.

[hugh]

Just an opinion or question of sorts. How long have you been in the tournament game, and have you ever won anything? I think it is not only important for the slick talkers as you guys say, to get sponsors, but the guys who can actually fish. The sponsorship pond is getting rancid because of all the slick talkers running around telling people how good they are and they have 2yrs under there belt as a tournament fisherman, and have never even come close to winning anything. Or even being consistant for that matter. you should really have something to bring to the table prior to asking for the hard earned cash.

[JLDII]

Hugh,

I'm assuming your question was intended for Rick, but if in case you were asking me, I'll answer. I started tournament fishing about 15 years ago. I've had several wins, and many top 10 finishes at the local, and state levels, as well as 1 top 10 finish at the National level. At one time I fished as many as 12-14 tournaments a summer, but have reduced that to just 2-4 a year now because of my focus being on guiding and time with family.

That being said, I still use sponsorships as much as I can, but for different reasons than Rick would. As a guide, I am pretty much centrally located within a market segment, or area. I spend an average of 120+ days a year on that water. My work gives sponsors the chance to have their products used by potential customers on a daily basis, much like test driving a car. They understand the value of that exposure. Much of my "sponsorship" is product in lue of money, which makes my keeping an inventory to work with much easier, and much more affordable.

Rick on the other hand, is pursuing the dream of being a touring pro, and his needs from a sponsor are much more centered on the financial aspects. As for your comment about the sponsorship pond becoming rancid, you have a valid point. Sponsors want people out there that can sell their product, and many of these so called pro's are given the chance to do that, but they spend more time trying to sell themselves and validate their being there instead of their product line. Those that are successful at the game are the ones who focus on the job the sponsors expect of them, and let their tournament records speak for themselves. There are more than a few PWT pro's out there that have not had a win, but they still are highly respected and sponsored, because they know how to play the game!

[sevenmmm]

Ok Hugh, have never won a tournament, nor do I think that the odds are in my favor of doing so in the future. So does that exclude my boat from ever being an advertising billboard? Does that mean I can not sell product?

Somehow, your post is what has a rancid taste and me thinks you are only afraid that someone may leapfrog over your imagined seniority in this tournament game of contests.

Also, many here are assuming that my reason for fishing tournaments is to someday become a Kavajecz-like promoter who makes a living in the industry. It is not.

Aside from these petty pretenders playing fast and loose with their typing and words, my only desire is to have some experiences entering these contests. From the beginning, when I fished NAWA events as an amateur in the middle nineties - and as now - my sole desire is for recreation only.

Now don't get me wrong here either, if there is a chance to make a buck - like I believe can happen asking for some advertising money - I'll ask for it and hold out my hand for payment.

And one other thing, will never think like alot of tournament anglers who believe the only real part of tournament fishing is winning. Thats NEVER! Will always want to have an attitude of doing the very best I can and let the fish decide who will be the lucky angler for the day!

iftherewasasmilyfacewithit'stongueout,youwouldgeti trightnow!

[Fuzzy]

As fishtail pointed out - it is all about the Benjamin's baby. The dealer isn't in the 'I sponsor Rick' busniess. He wants to move boats, motors and gear. You help him move at least one boat per year and you have his attention. It sounds like he did you a solid for the discount for the advert spot, but what have you done for him lately?
I suggest you help him sell boats and work with him, at some point in the future you may want a new sponsor and you may need to use him as a reference.

To answer your questions, a 5 event MWC boat decal isn't worth all that much, not really worth quanitifiing...but I guess it was worth the value of the motor discount he gave you.

[hugh]

Ok Rick, lets just look at what you said and take it as you have said it.

To start you say you have never won a tournament so does that exclude my boat from being a billboard. Well, we all know that you obviously dont need to win to be a billboard.

Then you stated that people on here assume that you want to be a promoter in the highest sense of the word, like P&K. Well, only you know what it is that you want to achieve.

Next you stated that your desire is to have experiences by entering these contests, and your sole desire is for recreation only.

And last but not least you stated, however, if there is a buck to be made.

Well, you are all over the map when it comes to what it is that tournament walleye fishing coupled with sponsorships are gonna do for Rick. You stated that winning is not everything but money is involved in winning. I would believe that winning does mean something because there is a buck to be made.

Rancid, heck yes, this is exactly why that pool is getting bashed.

Until you look at it from the business owners view and see exactly what it is he is getting for his money, you are destin to get new sponsors to fund ,your stated, "hobby" of fishing.

All tournament fisherpeople have something to offer business', just dont run out thinking they are going to pay you because you fish. They need value return on there investment.

[sevenmmm]

Hugh,

What you state in your post is the obvious. Beyond this, if you think it isn't worth much to an advertiser to use my boat as an advertisement, then just say as much. To go on about the lack of winning does not answer my question and can be taken as a flame.

If you are sincere, then be aware I have no long-term goal to make a living in the fishing industry. Am only playing a game that may not be available for me to play in the future.

Another thing, this Marina operator does not sell a tournament-type walleye boat and do not think he can benefit by my presence. He views me as a long-time customer (I bought 2 new boats and 7 new gas motors from him over the last 10 years) who wants to keep me around - thus the discount. And for that matter, probably could have negotiated a discount at any boat and motor retail outfit, not just with him.

So my question is asked with a pure heart. How much is it worth to an advertiser to advertise on a fine-looking boat rolling up and down the highway - and on the water - as I go to participate in these tournaments?

And really, am very friendly at the ramps, gas stations, and anywhere else I have been approached and asked questions about the rig. So there has to be some value in that too!

[answers]

Rick
All the posts gave you the answers you were looking for, now its up to you! The stick on your boat is worth nothing, if you can sell someone something for nothing go for it!

[sevenmmm]

Now thats a very smart answer! Thanks for sharing your brain power! :-)

[skor]

Amen to that!!!

[hugh]

Now Rick, that I totally agree with. he must not have had his wheaties this morn.

[Pay before]

Maybe I am way off but I believe that a sticker on a boat is pure and simple - advertisement (some can call it sponsership) but it is only putting the name of the Marina in front of thousands of people. In my books all advertising should be settled up front, agreed upon by both parties. Not based on how many boats are sold via you. You dont lease a billboard for a year and settle up later based on the hits from it. The marina is taking a chance of not benefiting at all from your boat sticker, so it is his choice of making wise business choices. Dewalt doesnt pay for their NASCAR stickers based on the amount of drills they sell the following Monday after a race. As far as how much, as long as both parties are happy and can settle on a price, well, should be all peachy :)

[answers]

Rick

Thats the reality of it! Everyone here has given you some sound advice, now its up to you! Figure what you think its worth then go for it.

Gordy

[Juls_OH]

It might be worth one or two entry fees into those local events you mentioned. After all, a marina owner is not going to get any business from the other states your visiting, fishing the MWC. He might from the local events though.

You said he doesn't sell tournament style boats, so I'm confused as to what you think he expects to gain from you? Like you said in another post...he gave you a discount last year, because you have been a good customer for years. I can see him doing THAT for you, but now you're asking for cash. Cash comes out of his pocket..the discounts don't. The analogy of a bill board came up...a bill board is stratigically placed to get the most bang for the buck for a company. Your sticker two states away isn't going to do diddly for your sponsor back home. Know what I mean?

You can't promise this potential sponsor that you will have MWC TV/Cable coverage, because you just don't know if that will happen. You can't promise that you will get his sticker, or name, in a publication, because you just don't know if that will happen either. Only promise what you can deliver, and deliver what you promise. First and foremost, ALWAYS be honest with a sponsor, and be yourself.

By the way, how big/small is this sticker you're talking about? Does it jump out at a person, or would it be easily looked passed if the rig was just going down the road at 65-70mph?
Can you describe it? Where is it on the boat? How much space on the boat does it take up?
Just wondering...

Again, my opinion is that it MIGHT be worth one or two entry fees into your local tournaments.
Whatever you do, don't burn a bridge with him if he doesn't give you anything. It's not personal, it's just business. Keep it friendly, because the next time you talk to him, he might be in a better financial position and help you out. Ya just never know!


Juls

[sevenmmm]

Hmmm, this answer Juls is getting closer, but not quite what I need. Am friends with this Marina owner, and can even go back to knowing him back in High School.

This question I ask is one that we (Kent Anderson and I) have discussed and neither could answer. Now, any answer that I can justify to him may, or may not be to his liking, but still need a figure of some kind. If not him, then maybe for another, right?

Or maybe it is best just to continue to build good will in hopes he agrees to deal with my next motor.

Also Juls, take into consideration they have a small tackle shop and campground. The area boasts of great Salmon and Trout fishing and many from Minnesota (Leech Lake & Praire du Chien events) do come to visit for this fishing opportunity.

Otherwise do like your idea of these local events and will discuss this further with him. But still would like some figure as to what this advertisement is worth.


Here is a Walleye Central Picture of my boat that Dave Landahl took at New York: http://www.liveleaderboard.com/2003_PWT_Dunkirk/day3_am/pages/DSCF0011.htm

[SUPERTROLLER]

Just a quick comment. Since you're still running the same rig as last year, both you and the Marina are still reaping the same benefits as last year from the initial deal you both worked out. You've still got a discounted motor and slip and he's still got you with a sticker on the boat for advertisement. Now you're asking for more but he gets the same deal and actually pays you more to get it. I think maybe you need to quantify your time that you spent selling his services and sending potential sales his way. Did you work any shows for them to advance his sales? This can be a good way to show him your time and usefulness. Have you spent time around his tackle shop just to smooze customers and help them out with their fishing questions and thus help push products out the door? This type of stuff would help you put a value on things for both sides to see.

[fire baller]

I don't know if you'll ever come up with the magic number you're looking for. You're looking for a standard number for your own unique situation. Here are two suggestions, if there is a metro transit (city bus) office in your area, call them up a see what bus side advertising costs and scale down from there. I live in the Twin Cities, a lot of courier companies with "dock trucks" sell the space on the sides of their trucks to advertisers (car dealers come to mind). Call one of those companies and see what it costs. Somewhere between zero and what they tell you is your answer.

[Dana C.]

Hey, "you the man".
Don't mind your response but next time you give someone a hard time and try to put them down the least you could do would be to use proper english. (your should be you're)

I think this speaks volumes about the type of person you are.

[sevenmmm]

>Just a quick comment. Since you're still running the same rig
>as last year, both you and the Marina are still reaping the
>same benefits as last year from the initial deal you both
>worked out. You've still got a discounted motor and slip and
>he's still got you with a sticker on the boat for
>advertisement. Now you're asking for more but he gets the same
>deal and actually pays you more to get it. I think maybe you
>need to quantify your time that you spent selling his services
>and sending potential sales his way. Did you work any shows
>for them to advance his sales? This can be a good way to show
>him your time and usefulness. Have you spent time around his
>tackle shop just to smooze customers and help them out with
>their fishing questions and thus help push products out the
>door? This type of stuff would help you put a value on things
>for both sides to see.



Ok, thats a good answer. It may be there can never be a standard pricing for a pure adverisement on my boat. I don't know.

But one thing that has become very clear, not many have considered their boats can be an advertisement without a personal involvement. My opinion is; what better way to draw the attention of those who like to fish, than to have a boat as an attractant? Why would an advertiser not agree that anyone who is interested enough to look, has already been qualified as a potential customer?

Well anyway, maybe I should just go ask potential advertisers. Who knows, maybe somebody will offer a candy bar!

[sevenmmm]

>Hey, "you the man".
>Don't mind your response but next time you give someone a hard
>time and try to put them down the least you could do would be
>to use proper english. (your should be you're)
>
>I think this speaks volumes about the type of person you are.
>
>



Ah heck, it made me mad for a bit, but guess it comes with the territory. If I had one wish, its the moderators of this board would clean this stuff up. It belittles those who are being slammed and the whole message board..