lund crestliner and lowe have been sold [Archive]

non rcl driver

03-07-2004, 05:58 PM

News Release
March 8, 2004
For Immediate Release

MINNEAPOLIS, MN – March 8, 2004 - Genmar Holdings, Inc. (Genmar) announced today the sale of its Aluminum Boat Companies, consisting of Lund, Lund Canada, Crestliner and Lowe to Brunswick Corporation for $191 million in cash plus an additional $30 million potential earn-out.

Irwin L. Jacobs, Chairman of Genmar, stated, “Genmar’s Board of Directors unanimously agreed it would be in the best interests of the Company and its shareholders to put all of our efforts and resources towards the future development and expansion of Genmar’s 13 remaining fiberglass boat companies.”

As previously announced on February 10, 2004, Genmar successfully completed the spin-off of its VEC Technology company (VEC) into a stand-alone company with the new corporate name of VEC Technology LLC (VEC LLC). Jacobs further stated, “After the sale of our aluminum companies is completed, estimated to be late March, 2004, and with the VEC spin-off initially valued at approximately $350 million, Genmar will basically have minimal long-term debt and over $100 million in cash. With Genmar’s balance sheet in the strongest financial condition its ever been, we will have the opportunity to accelerate our implementation of VEC and VEC Shield patented boat building processes throughout our factories and product lines.”

Jacobs continued, “After the sale of our aluminum boat companies to Brunswick, Genmar will consist of 13 of the world’s premiere fiberglass boat companies (Carver, Four Winns, Larson, Glastron, Wellcraft, Hydra-Sports, Aquasport, Seaswirl, Ranger, Champion, Stratos, Triumph and Windsor Craft) with total annual sales in excess of $900 million, 5000 employees, and eight manufacturing locations.”

Finally, Jacobs stated, “Our aluminum boat companies have been an important part and a substantial contributor to Genmar’s growth over the past 25 years. I would be less than candid if I didn’t say that I will very much miss working with all the people associated with the aluminum boat companies in the future. However, I am confident that Brunswick will continue to give the necessary leadership and financial support to Lund, Lund Canada, Crestliner and Lowe in order that they will continue to grow and lead the aluminum pleasure boating industry in the future as they have for many years.”
# # #
Genmar, with approximately 6,000 employees and 12 manufacturing centers in the United States and Canada, is the world’s largest builder of recreational boats and the industry’s technological leader with the development of VEC™ Technology and the VEC-Shield™ finish, the Roplene® process, the Genmar FirstMate™ customer care service and the Genmar Integrated Vessel System. Genmar boat brands include Aquasport®, Carver®, Champion®, Crestliner®, Four Winns®, Glastron®, Hydra-Sports®, Larson®, Lowe®, Lund®, Ranger®, Seaswirl®, Stratos®, Triumph®, Wellcraft®, and Windsor Craft™.

For Additional Information, Contact:

Irwin Jacobs
Genmar Holdings, Inc.
612-337-1801
ilj@jacobs-mgmt.com

T-Mac

03-07-2004, 06:29 PM

Not until now. (Late Sunday).
This is the first I heard about it.

Never a dull moment in the boat biz!
:)

Vikings Fan

03-07-2004, 06:31 PM

If this is indeed true it is suprising news. The topic of aluminum vs. fiberglass which has been beat to death on this board may be resurected. The pioneering work of Genmar with the Vec process may bring rich rewards. The Mercury bashers who own Lund, Crestliner and Lowe products may be singing another tune also. A very interesting development IF true.

Sad day.

03-07-2004, 06:32 PM

This is unfortunate...

Used to be I liked Lund/Crestliner products because I got a choice in engines. I'm guessing this will change now.

I expect Alumacraft to pick up major sales in the next few years as they were already nipping at Lunds heals.

Not sure what this means for Yamaha and Evinrude/Johnson.

Anyway, should be interesting.

olm

03-07-2004, 06:49 PM

Do you really think that engine's sell hull's? If so, why did all of the engine companies jump into the boat business over the years? Think about it!

I can't wait to see how Mercury responds to the pro's who were not loyal to them. It is my hope Mercury gives them what they deserve. NOTHING!!!

Trophy

03-07-2004, 07:08 PM

I'm curious, and not trying to drum up an argument from anybody, but what will that do to The R.C.L. Tour after the contract expires?? I kinda like the idea of the "Brunswick Walleye Circuit" that would allow us Bayliner scums to play at the private party. :+

Alumafacts

03-07-2004, 07:20 PM

Alumacraft has lost market share during the past three years, while Lund and Crestliner have gained market share.

Packer Fan

03-07-2004, 07:20 PM

It is time for Mercury to step up to the plate, get rid of the non-loyalists, let them stay with the engine choices they made a few years back, and then find a new contract.

If Mercury takes any of these guys back, that had jumped ship, it won't say much for the guys who have been loyal to Mercury. Heck, they have already brought Dan Plautz and crew back from Yamaha, to Mercury. Doesn't that look like it was a deal in the making, before the sale.

Let's watch and see where the ball goesw, once thee dust settles. Who knows, maybe they will just take care of the guys the have on staff now!!!

Packer Fan

whatever

03-07-2004, 07:34 PM

So.....What do think it means to be "on Merc's pro staff", or any motor comapany's pro staff for that matter? There is no loyalty from the pros, becuase they don't get anything. 99% of the guys out there get a little discount on their motor that is worth less than $1500. And, to make things worse, they need to buy a new motor every year, or they are threatened with lossing their "spot"...Most pros would be better off finacially, if they only bought a new boat and motor every three years, and payed full retail price for their rigs.

Wellllllllll

03-07-2004, 08:32 PM

Let's hope that Brunswick is not going to do to Lund and Crestliner what AMF did to Harley ... milk it and dump it.

I am concerned about the post that says GenMar saw the future of aluminum boats and bailed out because that future was more similar to Tracker's new hulls than to what GenMar was currently doing.

If Brunswick does not keep develop and research up, Lund and Crestliner may be faced with hard times.

Does anybody know if Brunswick has any experience with boats?????

Simple answer

03-07-2004, 08:36 PM

Motor companies got into the boat biz, back in the day, so they could actually make a profit. There is such a low markup on motors that it is tough to ignore that the majority of the profit on a boat deal is in fact from the boat, trailer and the extras. Especially the extras. A boat motor manufacturer gains in profit margin if they also own the boat brand. To adress the short sighted crack at pros, why does it make someone bad for going to a better deal? Like you wouldnt? Now if a pro is over the top and says stupid things and trashes another line, then runs it for more money, well that is just a lack of ethics and character. But if a guy switches after a long time to anothr brand, it does not diminish the pro much in the publics eyes. You buy stuff on pric all the time and have no trouble changing brands or what store you buy stuff from,it is no different for a pro. Ubless they shoot off their mouth. Very few self important braggards last very long as a pro.

Wellllllllll

03-07-2004, 08:38 PM

>Does anybody know if Brunswick has any experience with
>boats?????

I did a search on Yahoo and found that Brunswick does indeed have boating industry experience. This is what I found ...

Brunswick Boat Group

© Copyright 2003 Brunswick Corporation
Source All Articles: runswick Corporation

Brunswick 2003 Results to Exceed Prior Estimates

LAKE FOREST, Ill., Jan. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Brunswick Corporation (NYSE: BC) announced today it will report earnings estimated to be between $0.40 and $0.43 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2003 and between $1.62 and $1.65 per diluted share for the year. Previously, the company had estimated diluted earnings per share in the range of $0.28 to $0.33 for the fourth quarter and $1.50 to $1.55 for the year. The full-year estimates exclude an $0.18 per diluted share litigation charge taken in the first quarter of 2003.
The company said that continued strong sales and earnings growth from its Marine Engine, Boat, Fitness and Bowling & Billiards segments, along with the foreign exchange impact of the weakening U.S. dollar and a lower effective tax rate, were the primary drivers behind the better-than-expected results for the quarter.

Brunswick will release its fourth quarter 2003 financial earnings results on Thursday, Jan. 29, 2004, before the market opens. The company will hold a conference call at 10 a.m. CST that same day, which will be hosted by George W. Buckley, chairman and chief executive officer, Peter G. Leemputte, senior vice president and chief financial officer, and Kathryn J. Chieger, vice president -- corporate and investor relations.

The call also will be broadcast over the Internet and can be accessed at www.brunswick.com . To listen to the call, go to the Web site at least 15 minutes before the call to register, download and install any needed audio software.

Security analysts and investors wishing to participate via telephone should call (888) 283-3870 and ask to be connected to the Brunswick call. Callers outside of North America should call 1 (773) 756-4631 to be connected. These numbers can be accessed as early as 25 minutes before the call begins, as well as during the call. A replay of the conference call will be available through midnight CST Friday, Feb. 6, 2004, by calling (800) 839-2380. The replay will also be available at www.brunswick.com .

About Brunswick

Headquartered in Lake Forest, Ill., Brunswick Corporation endeavors to instill "Genuine Ingenuity"(TM) in all its leading consumer brands, including Mercury and Mariner outboard engines; Mercury MerCruiser sterndrives and inboard engines; Teignbridge propellers; MotoTron electronic controls; Northstar marine electronics; Navman GPS-based products; IDS dealer management systems; Sea Ray, Bayliner, Maxum, Hatteras, Meridian and Sealine pleasure boats; Baja high-performance boats; Boston Whaler and Trophy offshore fishing boats; Princecraft fishing, deck and pontoon boats; Attwood marine parts and accessories; Land 'N' Sea marine parts and accessories distributor; Life Fitness, Hammer Strength and ParaBody fitness equipment; Brunswick bowling centers, equipment and consumer products; Brunswick billiards tables; and Valley-Dynamo pool, air hockey and foosball tables. For more information, visit www.brunswick.com .

SOURCE Brunswick Corporation

"Safe Harbor" Statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995: Statements in this press release regarding Brunswick Corporation's business which are not historical facts are "forward-looking statements" that involve risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those contained in the forward-looking statements, see "Risk Factors" in the Company's Annual Report or Form 10-K for the most recently ended fiscal year.

Buchanan Promoted to Vice President - Audit

LAKE FOREST, Ill., Oct. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Brunswick Corporation (NYSE: BC) announced today that John R. Buchanan has been promoted to vice president-audit. Buchanan, who joined Brunswick in 2001, most recently was the company's director of audit.
Buchanan, 41, is responsible for audit activities for all Brunswick business units and operations around the world. He reports to Peter G. Leemputte, senior vice president - chief financial officer, and serves as the primary liaison with the Audit Committee of Brunswick's Board of Directors.

Buchanan has 20 years of experience, mostly in the areas of financial and operational audit. Before joining Brunswick, he held a number of audit and financial positions at General Binding Corporation, Premark International, Northrop Grumman and Arthur Andersen.

A CPA, Buchanan holds a bachelor of science degree in accounting from Arizona State University and an MBA from Chicago's DePaul University.

About Brunswick

Headquartered in Lake Forest, Ill., Brunswick Corporation endeavors to instill "Genuine Ingenuity"(TM) in all its leading consumer brands, including Mercury and Mariner outboard engines; Mercury MerCruiser sterndrives and inboard engines; Teignbridge propellers; MotoTron electronic controls; Northstar marine electronics; Navman GPS-based products; IDS dealer management systems; Sea Ray, Bayliner, Maxum, Hatteras, Meridian and Sealine pleasure boats; Baja high-performance boats; Boston Whaler and Trophy offshore fishing boats; Princecraft fishing, deck and pontoon boats; Attwood marine parts and accessories; Land 'N' Sea parts and accessories distribution; Life Fitness, Hammer Strength and ParaBody fitness equipment; Brunswick bowling centers, equipment and consumer products; Brunswick billiards tables; and Valley-Dynamo pool, air hockey and foosball tables. For more information, visit www.brunswick.com

SOURCE Brunswick Corporation

well

03-07-2004, 08:39 PM

Not always, but you have a very good point there.many pro deals are cruddy at best. Several Pros I know have gone their own way as it is cheaper than being sponsored.

Wellllllllll

03-07-2004, 08:45 PM

I should have mentioned this as the source of that section about Brunswick ... sorry.

www.boatingnews.com/brunswick.htm

Jte

03-07-2004, 09:09 PM

What is VEC technology?

Walleye Express

03-07-2004, 09:17 PM

> I'm curious, and not trying to drum up an argument from
>anybody, but what will that do to The R.C.L. Tour after the
>contract expires?? I kinda like the idea of the "Brunswick
>Walleye Circuit" that would allow us Bayliner scums to play at
>the private party. :+

[b]Trophy.

I'd be curious to see if Dick Webber or Ray Bluth showed up to fish that first Brunswick tourney? I hope they don't do to the boats what they did to the Harleys in the mid 70's when they bought them out.

MN_Moose

03-07-2004, 09:30 PM

Didn't AMF own Crestliner at one time? And wasn't there ownership of AMF by Brunswick???

Trophy

03-07-2004, 09:34 PM

If Dick would "roll"in to some tourny I'm sure he'd "strike" up a conversation that would soon be in the "gutter"

GR8WTHUNTER

03-07-2004, 09:40 PM

If I recall right, it will replace gelcoat on glass boats. It is some sort of an advanced plastic that is lighter and stronger and easier to care for and fix. I hope some one can give a better answer, but this is what I took away from an article I read a while back.

Sad day

03-07-2004, 10:13 PM

That may very well be true, although I couldn't find any 2003 production numbers to see for myself. Seems like I remember Alumacraft at 7.5% of retail aluminum boat sales. Genmar's aluminum boat sales were about 20%...this with multiple aluminum lines.

The point I was trying to make is that this may close the gap w/ those interested in different motors. Choice might be a selling feature...it would for me and many others.

See below:

Alumacraft Boat Co. reports record sales at January boat shows

Boating Industry
Wednesday February 4, 2004

ST. PETER, Minn.— Alumacraft Boat Co. recorded the best boat show sales in its history at the Minneapolis Boat Show and strong sales at the Houston Boat Show, as well, according to a company press release.

Dealers at the show reported quick sales, selling everything from the company's Trophy and Tournament lines, to the mid-sized Navigators and Lunkers, Alumacraft said. Further south, Invader bass boats and the new Bay Invader drew a great deal of interest at the Houston Boat Show, and sales were also good for Alumacraft’s line of jon boats. Sales were good across the board, according to the release.

“We’re very optimistic with the results we’re seeing at these recent major shows," Alumacraft sales manager Jerry Byron said. "The stabilizing economy, our exceptional product value and a strong effort from our dealers all contributed to this record showing. We’re pumped about this season.”

hgmeyer

03-07-2004, 10:35 PM

"This" season and the ones under contract... Do not ever forget that the "RCL" exists as a marketing tool... So, I am sure that it will either become and "all glass" series with a new name or it will "morph" into something else... But, I would bet the farm against two cents that it won't continue as the "RCL". Jacobs is not about to market someone else's boats and he owns the RCL.

The curious part of the deal is the future of Lund, Lund Canada, and Princecraft. Lund and Princecraft are "head to head" competitors. BTW, You can get a Princecraft with any motor the dealer rigs... I imagine that will be the same for Lund, Crestliner and Lowe at least into the forseesable future considering that Merc was never an exclusive requirement on a Princecraft...

RonM

03-07-2004, 10:40 PM

Brunswick owned the Fisher line of boats in the 90's didn't they? What ever happened to that company?

gotta luv it

03-07-2004, 11:05 PM

VEC is still fiberglass, but molded by machines rather than hand laid.

VEC: Virtual Engineered Composites™: The new standard in fiberglass

Genmar is the leader in developing and acquiring advanced technology for boat manufacturing. Most notable, perhaps, is Genmar's exclusive and revolutionary Virtual Engineered Composite fiberglass molding system, better known as VEC®. Unlike traditional labor-intensive fiberglass open molding, the VEC system is a computer-controlled, automated closed-mold system. Production takes place in a self-contained cell, and the completed hulls—incorporating the entire stringer system and boat floor—are so precise in material portions, bonding and thickness, they are both stronger and lighter than conventional versions.

The new VEC Shield™ process incorporates a thermoplastic shell in conjunction with VEC™ Technology, Genmar’s patent-protected, closed-mold manufacturing process. The VEC Shield™ finish provides a finish that is non-brittle, non-wavy, fade resistant and dramatically increases the gloss and finish over the marine industry’s present standard gel coat process.

Boats manufactured with the VEC Shield™ finish can be made in a wide range of colors, including but not limited to high chroma and metallic finishes, and are scratch, stain, and UV resistant. Long-term tests have shown no fading or color changes after the testing equivalent of four years of service. Most minor dings and scratches can be simply buffed away, and typical gel coat warranty problems related to cracking, fading and clouding will be virtually eliminated. The VEC Shield™ finish is also remarkably lighter than conventional gel coat, making the boat more fuel efficient.

Current brands using VEC are all Genmar: Four Winns, Glastron, Hydrosports..... and others.

At the upcoming dealer meetings in September, Genmar will roll VEC production into most brands. What might consumers see during the 2005 boat shows with VEC hulls......
A new 17' Champion walleye hull with a Yamaha 150 four stroke selling for less than a Mr. Pike?????
A new 21' Ranger Deep V Apache with a 250 HPDI for thousands less than a Warrior or Lund Tyee??????

Genmar would not sell these aluminum brands unless the believe they have an ace in the hole. And VEC may be like holding 4 Aces....this is gonna be big.

gotta luv it

03-07-2004, 11:23 PM

Brunswick sold Fisher and Procraft to Tracker Marine.

Now they are both Tracker's problem if you know what I mean. Tracker went and bought controlling interest in Travis Boating Centers to help sell these two lines.....

And they still only build a few boats each week...

Skeeter, Triton and the FLW boys have pretty much made sure they won't lose any market share, at least not to Procraft.

And when was the last time you were out walleye fishing and found yourself wishing you owned a Fisher????

THILL

03-07-2004, 11:26 PM

PackerFan, When did you hear Dan P. was going to Mercury ? That was news to me. Just have to say Dan helped me get started with Crestliner and tourn. fishing and was very nice to me (a new guy). I hope he is with Mercury, he's a good pick up. TIM

hgmeyer

03-08-2004, 12:02 AM

Yeah,

I don't thonk Jacobs woke up "stupid" one morning last week. I am dying to know if there is a non-compete clause covering Jacob's entry into the metallic hull business. Or, does he have an "idea" up his sleeve...hmmm

tuner

03-08-2004, 06:46 AM

Irwin has flooded the markets with tin boats, from here out his sales numbers are only going to drop. Why, well just take a look at the classifieds here for your answer. The RCL was very successful in selling boats and there are glut on the market from "pros" wanting to to pay to play another year. Brunswicks history with purchasing companies is never pretty, look at the Pinpoint line for a recent example. Zero RD and terrible service. Does Irwin care, heck no why should he, he just maxed out on an investment. Now his job is to glut the market with another brand.

CrappieKid

03-08-2004, 07:06 AM

AMF owned Harley Davidson at one time too. That was a disaster for the brand for years.

The Kid

Wondering

03-08-2004, 07:09 AM

Will the RCL change? I think it will eventually. Does Irwin own the RCL? I don't think he does, isn't it owned by FLW Outdoors. What boats can the bass guys run in the FLW series and the BFL and Everstart series? The RCL may change to some new name and open up a bit. I think RCL was just the major sponsors.

CWS

03-08-2004, 08:14 AM

RCS (Ranger, Champion, Stratos)

Otter

03-08-2004, 08:39 AM

It wouldn't surprise me, as Irwin Jacobs is one sharp businessman. If it is true, I hope that Lund doesn't get handled the same way Pinpoint did.

Dave Landahl

03-08-2004, 09:07 AM

Wondering,

Irwin Jacobs certainly does own the RCL. He owns FLW Outdoors the parent company for the RCL.

As far as what boats the bass guys on the FLW can run, well they can run whatever boat and motor they like. There is just a priority entrance to Ranger, Champion and Stratos/Javelin.

The anglers who make it to the semifinals and finals have to fish out of FLW sponsor boats with FLW sponsor engines and FLW sponsor logos, just like in BASS.

The difference with the FLW is that you cannot wear any non FLW sponsor clothing while you are on camera and BASS allows you to wear your sponsor gear on camera even if it competes with their sponsors.

Dave Landahl
Operations Manager
Walleye Central

Mark Klossner

03-08-2004, 09:15 AM

Brunswick Agrees to Acquire Three Aluminum Boat Brands
LAKE FOREST, Ill., Mar 8, 2004 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Brunswick Corporation (NYSE: BC) announced today it has signed a definitive agreement to acquire the Crestliner, Lowe and Lund aluminum boat brands from Genmar Industries, Inc., for approximately $191 million in cash.

"These brands are an ideal complement to Brunswick's line of fiberglass runabouts, cruisers and yachts, as well as our line of aluminum boats in the Princecraft brand," said Brunswick Chairman and Chief Executive Officer George W. Buckley. "This acquisition will expand our offerings to include a broader array of products in the important aluminum boat segments, in which we have little presence."

The agreement covers the purchase of Crestliner, Inc., based in Little Falls, Minn.; Lowe Boats, Inc., based in Lebanon, Mo.; Lund Boats, Inc., of New York Mills, Minn., and Genmar Boats Canada, Inc. (which produces the Lund brand in Canada), of Steinbach, Manitoba. Each of these companies produces numerous models of aluminum fishing, pontoon, deck and utility boats ranging from 10 to 25 feet. Combined, these entities had sales of approximately $311 million in the year ended June 30, 2003.

Commenting on the earnings impact, Buckley said, "On an annualized basis, these businesses would add approximately $0.14 per diluted share to the company's earnings. How much of that we would realize in 2004, however, will depend on precisely when the acquisition is closed." Subject to governmental approval and other customary closing conditions, the company said it expects to complete the transaction by the beginning of the second quarter.

"The goal of the Brunswick Boat Group is to offer our dealers a full line of products in all major powerboat segments," said group President Dustan E. McCoy. "Currently, we do not participate in the aluminum segment in any meaningful way in the United States. The addition of these quality brands represents a significant step in our effort to 'fill the white spaces' in our product line-up and to offer dealers a full range of products to meet their customers' particular boating needs. In addition, this acquisition supports our effort to provide consumers with products that benefit from an integrated approach to boat and engine manufacturing, allowing the efficiencies, product planning and integration to deliver a more satisfying boat-owning experience."

The company said the agreement contains provisions for additional consideration of up to $30 million to be paid in three years based on the achievement of certain financial targets over that time period.

Forward-Looking Statements

Certain statements in this press release are forward looking as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements involve certain risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations as of the date of this release. These risks include, but are not limited to, the effect of a weak economy and stock market on consumer confidence and thus on demand for marine products; the impact of interest rates, fuel prices and weather conditions on demand for marine products; the ability to maintain product quality and service standards expected by our customers; the ability to successfully integrate acquisitions; the ability to maintain effective distribution; competitive pricing pressures; and the financial strength of dealers and independent boat builders. Additional factors are included in the company's Annual Report on Form 10-K for 2003.

About Brunswick

Headquartered in Lake Forest, Ill., Brunswick Corporation endeavors to instill "Genuine Ingenuity"(TM) in all its leading consumer brands, including Mercury and Mariner outboard engines; Mercury MerCruiser sterndrives and inboard engines; Teignbridge propellers; MotoTron electronic controls; Northstar marine electronics; Navman GPS-based products; IDS dealer management systems; Sea Ray, Bayliner, Maxum, Hatteras, Meridian and Sealine pleasure boats; Baja high-performance boats; Boston Whaler and Trophy offshore fishing boats; Princecraft fishing, deck and pontoon boats; Attwood marine parts and accessories; Land 'N' Sea marine parts and accessories distributor; Life Fitness, Hammer Strength and ParaBody fitness equipment; Brunswick bowling centers, equipment and consumer products; Brunswick billiards tables; and Valley-Dynamo pool, Air Hockey and foosball tables. For more information, visit www.brunswick.com .

SOURCE Brunswick Corporation

http://www.brunswick.com

Trophy

03-08-2004, 09:31 AM

Guy's... Contrary to belief, life will go on! Instead of wondering about business strategy, how it will effect the 3% of the fishing public, and other things out of our control, let's worry about how we're going to afford gas for the boats we already have. I feel sorry for the guy's who dock, and are at the mercy of the dock pumps.

sevenmmm

03-08-2004, 09:52 AM

No doubt this man, Jacops, Irwin (reverse is intentional), is a very good businessman who just made a bold move making his company alot of money.

By reading the report, he is going to direct the money towards debt reduction and the new VEC technology. This will make his company even stronger and he will take market share from his old boat lines (as well as others).

As far as tournament fisherman are concerned, they will continue to buy whatever he offers in an effort to gain the top tournament prizes. So he will continue to dominate these buyers as well.

Kudos to this man, as he has pull all these broken pieces of the puzzle together to finish it (the puzzle) - and the picture that shows so clearly?

MONOPOLY!

another tracker line

03-08-2004, 10:01 AM

>Let's hope that Brunswick is not going to do to Lund and
>Crestliner what AMF did to Harley ... milk it and dump it.
>
>I am concerned about the post that says GenMar saw the future
>of aluminum boats and bailed out because that future was more
>similar to Tracker's new hulls than to what GenMar was
>currently doing.
>
>If Brunswick does not keep develop and research up, Lund and
>Crestliner may be faced with hard times.
>
>Does anybody know if Brunswick has any experience with
>boats?????

You mean build them all under one roof and slap a lund sticker on a Princecraft line boat?

Terroreyes

03-08-2004, 10:56 AM

Sounds like they took a page from the auto industry. A company I worked for was the pioneers in that process from the automotive end. Also did the same process for American Pleasure Craft, but they do it in an open mold.

I'll bet the VEC process is almost identical. They take a negative mold, apply the paint or outer coating first. The mold is usually heated and at this point the coating is partially cured. The mold is then closed, injected with fiberglass maretial and resin into the cavity. The whole piece is allowed to cure and cool. End result is a virtually flawless piece with the glass and outer coating physically bonded together as one. The quality and appearance of the finish is dictated by the surface of the mold, not by whether a human painter did a good job spraying and sanding.
[br][div align="center"][br][center][br][font color="#3300CC";font face="Roman"; size="+2"][b][br][br]Terror - [font color="red";font face="Webdings"; size="+3"]NN

Genmar Press Release

03-08-2004, 11:40 AM

http://www.genmar.com/pr/news.cfm?id=272

T-Mac

03-08-2004, 11:43 AM

Lots of discussion and lots of interesting posts. :)

Folks..... don't expect much change with Lund and Lund Canada, at least.
Lund and Lund Canada are profitable, extremely well "branded", and have a great following. A company like this is appealing for anyone who could afford to purchase it. Especially appealing to an outfit that owns many other boat lines.

Congratulations to the new owners! You bought a great company with the best doggone employees in the biz.
and... picked up some good dealers, too ;) ;)

Guest1

03-08-2004, 12:23 PM

I believe they did it the boats used to say 'AMF Crestliner"

Rake

03-08-2004, 12:40 PM

What about the motors? Do you forsee still being able to put any motor you want on a Lund. Or will you be forced to run a Mercury since Brunswick owns them too?

MarkG

03-08-2004, 01:07 PM

Hey,maybe our "pre Brunswick" Lunds will now appreciate in value when
Brunswick runs the the brand into the ground. In 5 years they might be building them in China!

BeenThereDoneThat

03-08-2004, 01:26 PM

>Folks..... don't expect much change with Lund and Lund Canada,
>at least.
>Lund and Lund Canada are profitable, extremely well "branded",
>and have a great following. A company like this is appealing
>for anyone who could afford to purchase it. Especially
>appealing to an outfit that owns many other boat lines.

T-Mac,

That is a brave face. I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. I worked for a family-owned chemical company that was sold to a huge French oil company. Then THAT oil company was taken over forcefully by the other even larger French oil company. As a survivor of all those restructurings and changes in ownership and leadership, I have a great deal of experience in what Lund and Crestliner are facing.

The bottom line is that the employees of those boat companies will dance to the tune of the parent company. Period. Those that don't will be fired. The boat companies' business philosophies will be those of the parent company. They will treat their customers according to the management dictates of the parent company. If that does not happen, there will be a change in management of the boat company until it does happen. Period.

According to my business training classes and the training I received as part of the buyout experiences I went through, takeovers and buyouts are a wrenching experience that fails about 65% of the time because of cultural clashes and poor management. AOL-TimeWarner is a very good example. AMF-Harley is another.

In a situation like this, all a boat owner and dealership can do is hope for the best and be alert regarding the changes that will come. The past performance of Brunswick after buyouts is a very good forecast of what the future will bring for us boat owners. I have not looked into that past performance enough to make a prediction, but as a Lund owner, I am certainly going to now.

Mother

03-08-2004, 01:35 PM

Hmmm

Very interesting news indeed.
Bruns/Merc owning Lund/Crest and a boat co. to be named later.
Smart move by Merc, what a great way to counter the market gains
earned by Yamaha(now being sued by merc) and Suzuki - package the
their motors and not allow the 'Dumped' Yamahas to end up transoms.
Well is'nt that just a little to tidy. The pot calling the kettle
black. What a scam, buy boat manufacturers and the dealer network
and force them to peddle your motor at a 'discount' and only
offer the 'competing' brands when dragged kicking and screaming by
consumers who wish to a have a CHOICE (remember that) Not everyone
has the Merc blind loyalty - PackerFan, rube. Loyalty, tell me a
story about corporate loyalty, Uncle Packerfan
That maybe the shortest list ever compiled.

Irwin, what a shark, he could'nt get his engine company so he
peddles his alum. brands to put all his eggs in the VEC basket and
to improve the companies long term debt position. And some praise
his business acumen. With the low-manpower VEC sytem patented and
producing multi styled/sized hulls, he'll fire large amounts of the
precious "Hand Laid" Ranger craftsman (personal chuckle) and countless
others because they're not needed any more. With his labor halved
and lowering his benefits/overhead, he is now positioned to sell the
hulls at any price he demands because he can produce them cheaper
than anybody else - Is he gonna pass the savings on to us the 'sheep'
a um I mean consumers at great savings or just under cut the competion to beat them out. Or sell the whole thing to the highest
bidder, who will of course have to charge a smidge less than the
competion to make the payments to the banking consortium that
financed the deal.Even though he can make them for peanuts !!

Hopefully the sale of Lund/Crest will allow Bruns/Merc to build a
formed hull line of hi perf Lunds without hurting the brand and it's
legendary rivets (about freakin time) Oh well, at least it can't get any worse -it only took thirty + years to recess the throttle !!

Either way we still the dirt end of the stick but, maybe I'm bitter and cynical of big business or do I have vision by taking off
my Merc and Lund colored glasses ?

And finally

Will Tracker offer multi-brand motor packages to be more consumer
friendly ??? We can only hope.

Sunshine to all

Mother

Todd_NE

03-08-2004, 01:40 PM

Mercury, I believe, has a higher or similar NATIONAL marketshare than Lund does in Minnesota YET people assume Mercury will somehow mismanage the companies they just bought. In some states, Mercury has 70+ percent of the marketshare, maybe - just maybe - Mercury can even make Lund, etc, better. Who knows until this all settles out. You know Mercury wants to make Lund, Crestliner, and Lowe perform even better or they wouldn't have done this.

I'd sure rather be bought by a recreational US company looking out for fisherman and investors than broken up, sold to a foreign competitor, or possibly start to be neglected.

Looks like a win-win to me.

Hang in there owners and dealers, I'll bet this all turns out pretty good.

Todd

Vikings Fan

03-08-2004, 02:00 PM

Your post has a very interesting slant. Did you come up with all that sober? I think you missed the point why this sale took place. You can say what you will, but ultimately we consumers will benefit from the VEC technology. Vilifying Irwin Jacobs for once again being the leader in advancing the marine industry will not lessen the fact that the bar has been raised. Some people have to be led kicking and screaming into the future and reading your reply, it sounds like you are both kicking and screaming.

Vikings Rule in 2008!

Todd_NE

03-08-2004, 02:03 PM

By the way,

On boatbiz.com Brunswick states that they expect dealers to continue selling other motor brands.

I do feel bad for the dealers who have went away from Mercury in the past for whatever reason, it will probably lead to some tough discussions out there.

One thing a lot of manufacturers of boats and motors do is try to drive dealers to be sole brand providers, in this arrangement dealers many times get purchase incentives.

Todd
Oh yeah... I stuck her good... Feel that head shake...

end of dinosuars

03-08-2004, 03:39 PM

It sounds to me like Irwin is betting against the long term potential of Aluminum V hulls as they currently exist? Can you say "formed hulls"? Can I get an "Amen" from the people in the congregation with Tundras?

Rippin_Eyes

03-08-2004, 03:46 PM

WOW!!! I am shocked!!!! It will problably fine and dandy for all those companies involved until there is some bad managment on someones part. I am one for small business as that is what made the United States what it is today. I hate seeing small companies ate up by the big guy . I hope that all the people of Crestliner, Lund, and Lowe, keep there factory jobs. In towns like Little Falls, New York Mills, and Lebanon I'm sure that they are a huge labor entity for those communities . I wish them the best of luck but I hope they look out for everyone involved in the company!!!!

HeyNow

03-08-2004, 04:20 PM

>Hey,maybe our "pre Brunswick" Lunds will now appreciate in
>value when
>Brunswick runs the the brand into the ground. In 5 years they
>might be building them in China!

You know, that might be like the "pre-1964 Winchesters", huh???

greenfish

03-08-2004, 04:32 PM

This is the same guy that with all his wisdom scheduled the flw champ on top of the bass master classic. check Timtuckeroutdoors to see a list of his & flw's list of dumb bass awards.

Trapper

03-08-2004, 05:43 PM

Mother,

I haven't seen the news of "and a boat co. to be named later". Where did you see this information?

lone ranger

03-08-2004, 06:00 PM

Since i posted the original message and now proved to be right.Here's
the rest of the story.Brunswick lost market share to yamaha.The
quickest way is oem lund with mercs.Make no mistake down the road
if you want to buy a lund,crestliner or lowe you will be hardpressed
to put another make on the back.Princecraft dealers pay a premium
for a boat without a merc on the back,same will be true with these
boats.Brunswick is a profitable public that pays its shareholders
dividends.

hgmeyer

03-08-2004, 06:04 PM

Wow...

"Princecraft dealers pay a premium for a boat without a merc on the back..."

That is some ominous news...

not logged Mother

03-08-2004, 06:07 PM

Irwin the innovator - hardly. He has a long and distinguished resume` of slash and burning co. for profit. Fine. Cold calculating
businessman -yes. He saw the handwriting on the VEC wall.
He gambled a bit on emerging and developing the technology, along
with making the patents "iron clad" to make sure his risked venture pays off. Fine. Biz is biz. But to think he's doing it for our
collective good - oh well- He's making MONEY, nothing more nothing
less. Fine, the American way, the better mouse trap.
He needed some serious capital to go full production so, he sold off
the labor intensive boating companies. Simple.
Did he innovate LUND or Crestliner - a tweak here and there and
a 'padded' hull after over ten years of ownersship and lets not
forget the recessed throttle after nearly twenty years. Whew,
really put the whip to your engineers !! Got a hack saw and an hour to waste.

The sale may spur a shift in Alum hull technology for Lund and the new ownership. To be competative they will have to be cheaper to make and perform closer to "glass" No rivets, formed hull Lunds !!!!
and that may be the greatest benefit along with the new VEC hulls
We get better products by dogged competition. I only hope bruns
does push a new hull technology.

Mother

AhHa

03-08-2004, 06:14 PM

>The quickest way is oem lund with mercs.Make no mistake down the
>road if you want to buy a lund,crestliner or lowe you will be
>hardpressed to put another make on the back.Princecraft dealers
>pay a premium for a boat without a merc on the back,same will be >true with these boats.

You know, I was thinking about this very development last evening when the news started to break. I would not be surprised to see this actually happen.

FisHn2DMax

03-09-2004, 12:12 AM

You can bet Brunswick did NOT buy the three primarily "Outboard" powered aluminum boat brands with the intent to let them be powered with anything other than Merc products! It makes perfect business sense to buy similar companies, intergrate, consolidate and standardize. This allows for reduction of overhead and leveraging suppliers ( internal & External) with higher volumes and lower component cost used in Manufacturing. This will increase profit margin and lower cost of goods. It doesn't take a MBA to know these brands will all be wearing black motors in a few years!!! To prove this, try to go out and buy a volvo stern drive on a SeaRay, Maxxum or Bayliner. Brunswick will market the aluminum line in the same basic fashion as they have with their Glass boat lines. I can see the marketing as follows in the near future: Lund & Sea Ray = premium label , followed by Maxxum & Crestliner= midline and the Bayliner-Lowe= value. Each line offers features and values for their perspective price points. In doing a first blush of the financial details of the deal, Brunswick just guaranteed their future market share of their Outboards and at the same time, negotiated one #### of a good deal for the three aluminum boat companies. Even though I'm personally worried about future lack of motor choice, I have to admit, from a purely marketing prespective, it was a brillant move on the part of Brunswick. As far as Brunswicks/ Merc's claims of unfair motor dumping by the Japanese, it's purely a smoke screen intended to de-focus the competition and put the Japanese motor companies on the their heels, all the while Merc was securing more North American future market share. Wow, I'll bet Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki are all seeing red today. Think about it, they get dragged into defending themselves for putting out quality and then potentially lose a significant portion of the future aluminum outboard motor market to Merc as a result of this sell.

My concern is for the affected dealerships that now offer motor choice on these brands will be hard pressed to do so in the future. Moreover, existing Brunswick glass boat dealers will likely (in the future) be allowed to offer a corresponding "Brunswick" aluminum boat line. There is no question in my mind that some of our current and beloved Lund, Crestliner and Lowe dealers will be placed into a very tough situation in the coming years.

fishhunter

03-09-2004, 05:51 AM

When I bought my Skeeter I could have put any motor I wanted on it, BUT if I wanted anything but a Yamaha I would have to pay at least $2000 more for it. You will be able to run any motor you want but its going to cost you. On the same note having the boat and motor owned by the same company will save you money, One less middle man.

Vikings Fan

03-09-2004, 06:30 AM

Still kicking and screaming? Capitalism is a wonderful way to make a living. We are all trying to make a profit. What is wrong with that? It is the American way. That is why Brunswick bought Lund, Crestliner and Lowe. In the pursuit of profits, Genmar (Jacobs) has brought many new innovations and advancements to the marine world and there are more coming. Attempting to demonize a person for their acomplishments is just sour grapes. Or is it the "Grapes Of Wrath?"

Genio in duluth

03-09-2004, 06:35 AM

Genmar sells Lund, Crestliner boat lines
Mike Blahnik, Star Tribune

March 9, 2004 GENMAR0309

Lund and Crestliner, two of the most popular boats on Minnesota's 14,000 lakes, have been sold to an Illinois company.

Genmar Holdings said Monday it has sold the two Minnesota boat-builders plus its two other aluminum boat companies, Lund Canada and Lowe, to Brunswick Corp. for $191 million in cash so Genmar can focus on its fiberglass boat business.

A Brunswick executive said no job losses are expected in Minnesota, where 1,200 people work at Lund's plant in New York Mills and Crestliner's facility in Little Falls.

Lund and Crestliner each began as small companies in the late 1940s, and each was acquired by Minneapolis-based Genmar more than 20 years ago.

"These companies have been major contributors to Genmar for many years. In good times and bad times, our aluminum group has been stellar performers," Genmar Chairman Irwin Jacobs said.

"These people have become part of our family, so from an emotional point of view, it was the most difficult decision I've ever had to make in the boat business. But on the business side, it was absolutely the right decision for lots of reasons."

The four companies being sold had revenue of $311 million in the year ended June 2003, Brunswick said. Privately held Genmar doesn't disclose earnings for the companies, but Brunswick estimated they'll add earnings of 14 cents per share, or about $13.1 million in annual profits.

The deal, which is expected to close this month, will bring Genmar an additional $30 million if the brands hit certain earnings targets over the next three years.

The initial cash allows Genmar to pay off existing debt and have $100 million to fund expansion of its revolutionary VEC (virtual engineered composite) manufacturing technology.

"That's a major game-changing technology. We can build a boat in 45 minutes that takes 20 hours [using conventional technology] today," Jacobs said.

"There's a whole fundamental change that's taking place in our product lines today, and we have to spend the time, money, effort and resources where we need them. This gives us the opportunity to make lots of decisions right now rather than over the next several years."

(Last month Genmar spun off a company named VEC Technology to develop the process for uses other than boats. That new company, with an estimated value of $350 million, is taking on strategic partners such as Interplastic Corp. of St. Paul.)

Genmar owns 13 fiberglass boat companies, including Larson, Glastron, Four Winns, Ranger and Carver. The remaining companies have annual revenue of more than $900 million and about 5,000 employees. Genmar has about 16.9 percent of the fiberglass boat market share, just behind Brunswick's market-leading 17.5 percent, according to industry figures.

Sea Ray, Bayliner and Maxum lead Brunswick's fiberglass lines.

Brunswick's only current aluminum line, Princecraft, has an insignificant presence, while the acquired companies account for about 20 percent of the highly fragmented aluminum boat industry.

"We've had a long-stated strategy of moving into white space: segments that we're not presently in, and aluminum was a major piece of that," said Dustan McCoy, Brunswick Boat Group president.

"This allows us to begin to operate the Brunswick marine businesses in a much more integrated fashion. We are very focused on enveloping our dealers in products and services, and in order to accomplish that we need a full product line, and aluminum helps us fill that out."

Brunswick shares rose 96 cents, or 2.4 percent, Monday to close at a 52-week high of $40.29.

Genmar had offers from other companies, Jacobs said, but chose Brunswick because of the success it had in selling its Hatteras yacht company to Brunswick in 2001 for about $110 million, including $20 million after Hatteras hit its subsequent earnings targets.

Jacobs said company executives met with employees in the aluminum boat factories on Monday.

"Everybody was told there's no reason to panic," Jacobs said. "They bought it because of who we are and what we are; they didn't buy it to change it. These are absolutely star performers in the industry."

JLDII

03-09-2004, 08:17 AM

This might also bring about a quiet out of court settlement in Mercury's lawsuit against Japanes outboard motor makers dumping on the market. Remember, it was Irwin Jacobs that tried unsuccessfully to buy Merc a few years ago, and then turned and bought and sold OMC to Bombardier, and signed his marketing deal with Yamaha.

Giving Brunswick a larger segment of the market, might bring that case to a close since Brunswick will have about the same market share advantage as the Japanese companies. In other words, a more level playing field.

Interesting thought

03-09-2004, 08:44 AM

This will sure put the hurt on the smaller boat companies, like Warrior, Yar Crfat, Patriot, Tuffy, who have for so long, played a part in the fishing world. The new VEC building concept, will eventually put these companies out of Business, as they will not be able to compete with the VEC process of building boats. If I were them, I would call Irwin, and ask if he is interested in purchasing another boat brand, timming is right for this to happen, but not the right time to buy into or but from a small company as such as those listed above. Just think of owning one of these, and then them going out of business, where would that put your warranty?

Make the right choice, when buying your next bought, check out the strength of the company, and see if they will be arounf
d in the future. Just food for thought!!

Have a nice day!

bigfish1965

03-09-2004, 08:50 AM

Okay...

People will always buy non-RCL boats. Why...cause RCL's are over-priced...sorry 'too expensive for the average buyer'. Lund has been loosing market share in canada for awhile as the alternative guys make better and better boats at a price thats a it more reasonable.

Diesel Dave

03-09-2004, 09:03 AM

All this talk about VEC and here I was flipping through a Walleye Mag last night and I come across a Triumph boat that they are claiming to be industructable and low and behold there is Genmar at the bottom of the page. I was wondering if that is the direction they are going?

greenfish

03-09-2004, 09:42 AM

Your thought process is correct if your talking pleasure boating.
Really only 1 boat left for the fishing world under Genmar (Ranger).
Only so many people that can spend 50k on a rig then turn around and loose 20k when they sell.

Market all you like but you'll find very few people ready to go walleye fishing out of their Triump or Glastron.

hmm

03-09-2004, 09:58 AM

Doesn't Genmar also own Champion and Stratos? These are walleye boats...

boating world

03-09-2004, 10:10 AM

I have a few thoughts on the sale!
1st Genmar made tons of money on the sale!
2nd how would you like to be the owner of a new Ranger? Your boat will be worth about 15k less in a year when the new models come out.
3rd I hope that Merc has no say in the way the boats are made, they have shown in the past few years that they don't care what they put out on the market. I hope they keep the people that have gotten these brands where they are now!
4th I can now see the new Merc walleye tour, you must run a Merc and one of their boats.
5th Merc will be as they called it (Yamaha) dumping motors at their new brands. They must not have much faith in the lawsuit anymore, so they went out to do the same thing.

I will never buy another Merc! They are the company that puts bad product on the market, then tells everyone how good their service is. I will not own one of their boats in their line if I have to put their junk on it! If they try to sell their packages under what I can buy another motor I will buy another boat. I understand about buying a USA motor but until they have a product that rivals what I have, they will not get a dime of my money! I can only hope they don't get into say Lund and start there cuts like the Opti Max!
I know this all comes down to making money but making the best product has not hurt companies like BMW or BENZ. People will pay for high quality products that will hold up!

T-Mac

03-09-2004, 10:22 AM

We can still put whatever engine we like on them for at least a couple of years. I have no "crystal ball", but I can tell you what I have been told:

It is "business as usual", folks.

I am impressed that there is so much LUND interest by the frequenters of these boards. (There are two other boat companies involved, too).

Thank you. All of you.

JLDII

03-09-2004, 10:37 AM

Your anger is very badly misplaced. Mercury has absolutely no say about any of this. They are owned by Brunswick. They don't tell Brunswick what to do. If for some reason it does come down to the scenario you described, it will be Brunswicks decision, not Mercurys.

Father

03-09-2004, 10:42 AM

Simply another misconception he has. There is no other company to be named later.

Fishing Insider

03-09-2004, 10:46 AM

This changes a lot of things.

1) a don't see a lot of changes in quality to the boat brands in the near future.

2) I don't see Merc starting their own walleye circuit for only Merc Owners, however I am sure it has been discussed.

3) I do see that it would be more difficult in a couple years to get a Lund, Crestliner or Lowe with anything other than a Merc on the back. (Yamaha owns Skeeter, just try to get a Skeeter with Merc on it.)

4) I see the RCL changing to become Rangers, Champions and Stratos. Champion is now working hard on building a serious walleye boat, something they have never had. Wouldn't surprise me if Stratos is adding a new walleye model or two.

5) I see problems for the RCL leagues. Take out the Lunds and the Crestliners and you don't have much. There will be no Lund or Crestliner bonus of course. There may be no League at all.

6) This is the best news the PWT and the GNWC ever heard, I bet they are dancing in their offices today!

greenfish

03-09-2004, 11:13 AM

Those are BASS boats.

huh

03-09-2004, 11:22 AM

Champion has a walleye boat. They use to be the official sponsor of the PWT.

Wisc Jim

03-09-2004, 11:58 AM

I find it interesting as to why you would think that a new Ranger would be worth $15,000.00 less in a year. What would make you even come up with such a stupid statement as that. I would think it would be more prudent to think that with all of the negativity related to the postings about Merc. that if you purchased a Lund, or Crestliner, (I won't even think Lowe)that they would be worth less. This should have No impact on the value of Ranger. If the technology changes it will not have any bearing what so ever on the value of a recently manufactured Ranger Boat. They have and always will continue to have one of the highest quality products made. The only individuals that continue to have an opinon and make statements such as yours are those who cannot afford to purchase a Ranger. Get a clue!

walleyes133

03-09-2004, 11:59 AM

How can you say that about Rangers? They can't change them that much. They hold their value better than most other boats. It sounds like you are quite upset about the deal and what to take it out on somebody else.

greenfish

03-09-2004, 11:59 AM

They really sold well in the walleye market. See them everwhere and Skeet Reese is the best walleye angler I've ever heard of.

Champion and Stratos may get some marketshare but it will be at Ranger's expense.

Most boat buyers start in tin and sometimes move to glass. The biggest % of that future glass buyer now owns a Lund or Crestliner and they just got run over by Genmar. Don't like guys are going to get in line to domat to the Irwin fund this time around.

Two sayings that are very true.

90% of fish are in 10% of the water.

Screw me once shame on you. Screw me twice shame on me.

Satch

03-09-2004, 12:53 PM

Gentlemen, I'm sure in the future there will be many changes coming to the aluminum boat industry, most of which we can only guess at. My co-workers and I sold boats last week in both the Lund and Alumacraft factory booths during the Minneapolis Sportshow. On Sunday morning around 10:30 the rumors began to fly through the show about the pending sale announcement and by 5:00 those rumors had been confirmed. The last hour observations I made while wandering through these two manufacturers booths were just that "observation", but I believe they reflect what a lot of the people involved are feeling.

1--Most if not all in the Lund booth are concerned about the future.

2--The Pro-Staff of other boat companies are glad to be where they are

3--The customers are worried about a lack of choice, but many believe
Merc makes a quality product and/or they have other quality boat
choices with the engine they want.

4--The non-effected boat manufacturers seemed "Giddy"

5--There are no signs of the aluminum fishing boat industry slowing
down in this market.

Marble Eyes

03-09-2004, 01:03 PM

Hey flatmans that sounded like a threat. Perhaps if you are that tough of a fella you'ld use your real name on that post.

Just in case you loose your temper, someone ought to know it was premeditated! :)

Jim Carroll

03-09-2004, 01:04 PM

Using VEC to lower production costs will give Genmar more pricing flexibility...but do you really think they will pass all those savings on to the consumer? Also there will be a significant investment in VEC technology to pay for. Maximize profit is always the goal and price your product at what the market will bear is the rule. I doubt boat prices get much cheaper without stiff competition between companies. Sounds nice for us consumers, but I'm skeptical. JC

Tom B

03-09-2004, 01:10 PM

I do not see VEC technology decreasing any boat prices. Go price a Larson I/O. There are comparable Larsons available in handlaid fiberglass and VEC. The VEC hull's are generally 2-3,000 move than non VEC.

Vec hulls are nice, but the tooling to build a VEC plant are very expensive. Right now, the only VEC plant that Genmar owns is in Little Falls used to build Larsons and Glastrons.

Genmar will use to increase their profit, not to decrease boat prices.

Tom B

Bob 0

03-09-2004, 01:11 PM

Wake up! Not everyone can afford glass boats and not everyone can afford the molded designs. So it stands to reason that there will still be a healthy market for standard aluminum boats.

At some point the RCL could change format or even be entirely done away with. Genmar has likely figured out that every guy just cannot buy a new boat every 3 years and that the turnover rate on boats is not what they had hoped.

Those boat building companies that sold to Genmar did so for a reason. Yes they made money, but frankly it was more likely that between expense and turnover rate, they just could not sustain a regular output of boats and afford expenses.

Genmar, no matter how big or how shrud, will also experience the same pressures. They cannot support one branchs loss with another branches profits. That would make a company weak and eventually devour it. Each branch has to stand alone. At some point Genmar had to realize that they were effectivly, competing against themselves as they had cornered the market in many respects. something has to give... in this case they unload a few lines.

Mother

03-09-2004, 01:36 PM

To all

A boat to be named later is just a play on the old
baseball trading axiom - A team will usually throw in a
'garbage' pick, a nobody player that is inconsequential
to a deal... LOWE boats.

Another thing, "Vikings Fan" who seems to worship Irwins ground he walks upon-Do you live next to him on lake Minnetonka ???
Irwin likes to pull in a bottom of the ninth deal, so I feel all is not done with this. Wait till late summer, if nothing happens by then the deal should be done.

I'm torn ? Do I hold out for a Vec Hulled wally/musky boat ?
or Tundra or wait a long time for Bruns/Merc to introduce a Lund
formed hull ?

Well, I think I'll go for door # 2, # 1 is a close second and by
the time # 3 happens - I'll be to old to go # 2 and # 1 will
"depend"

Mother

ps - relax Francis, geez it's only a boat. Grist for the mill

show goer

03-09-2004, 01:39 PM

Did see a 19ft stratos - new model w/ 150hp priced at $20,000 at Crystal Pierz booth. Boat looked very fishable and ready for big water.

aar7

03-09-2004, 02:18 PM

As a veteran of several mergers I can honestly tell you that one of the biggest lies of all time is the phrase "Everything will be the same after the merger".

Companies buy other compnaies for typically too much money because they believe that they can shape them into something that is even better. The business world is littered with examples where it doesn't work and has very few examples where it does.

I hope that this works well for all parties involved but trust me . . . everything will not be the same after the merger.

Inside Scoop

03-09-2004, 02:51 PM

Formed hull? Forget it. That is a Tracker Boat process which has nothing to do with Brunswick.
Furthermore it is unproven in terms of long term reliability, despite what some people want to think.

fishhunter

03-09-2004, 04:27 PM

Im with JC on the pricing, its not going down.

BOB O if you can afford a lund you can afford glass, lund is in some cases higher than the top end glass boats.

People, this isnt the end of the world as you know it. Companies are bought and sold everyday.

For the guy who said Champion and stratos are Bass boats, what do you think Ranger started as. I would be willing to bet that they still sell way more bass boats that walleye boats.

Ranger Elf

03-09-2004, 04:34 PM

What will we do for work if the mean troll Jacobs obsoletes our
hick craft for the annointed anglers, um ah.
I mean those who will throw obscene money into a fictionally
better boat oops !! What I meant is, now all the
"precious" Rangers will be built the same way as all the other
boats and they will still pay thousands more Hehehehe "doh"

Need your shoe cobbled ?? I know people.

Ranger Elf

Ps- Oh well, time for me and some of the crew to buy that beach front in the Caribean and go over the options list for the VIKING 46ft Sportfish were gonna slum in. Paid for from our over-paying for a Ranger trust fund we set up about ten years ago.
Hi ho it's off to tan I go !!!

Fuzzy

03-09-2004, 04:47 PM

Elfie-

maybe you should double up on the prozac for a few days - wow - that is a lot of displaced hostility and makes little sense

boats

03-09-2004, 04:58 PM

wis Jim

Since your running your mouth, I'll ask what you dont understand? When the new Rangers come out with the new hull(Maybe this one will run right in rough water) then the value of the old boats with layed glass hulls will DROP LIKE A ROCK! Your ignorate if you think that will not happen! Look at the 692s when they came out with the 620 and those 00' 620s with the gas tank up front, guys have to give them away to get rid of them. VEC will leave guys like you wondering how your gonna tell your better half that your gonna take a 10k hit to get into that new one. Common sense will tell you that your not thinking!

Yup

03-09-2004, 05:27 PM

The biggest single positive factor with the VEC technology is styrene emmissions; there are virtually none. Expensive to implement? Oh boy, bet your socks on that. Better quality product? Sould be, based on 'consistency' of plus or minus 16 oz. in a 1000 part run. Is there competing technology on the way? Yes.

A little company in Madison, WI is building boats using a 'green' technology that will build very consistent product.

Resin Transfer Molding. Winds of change....

I have seen Ranger change hands now, what; two times? Skeeter three? Crestliner three? Lund two? Lowe four? Princecraft one? Tuffy three? Yar Craft three? The more things change, the more they stay the same. The very fact all those brands are still built and someone found them desirable to buy indicates a certain ataying power.

Interesting JDII

03-09-2004, 05:31 PM

JDII

Wonder where you get your Info, Irwin, trying to buy Mercury, then, not being Mercury's decission. Do you work at Mercury, or are you one of their spokesmen, or are you with Irwin?

If you answer no, to all of the above, then I would believe, that you don't know as much as you say you know.. One last question, are you in a Lund, Crestliner, or Lowe? If no, then you must be in one of those company's, that won't be around for long, the little ones, Tuffy, Warrior, Yar Crfat, or Patriot.

MarkG

03-09-2004, 06:37 PM

Seems that generally,many are concerned more about what it means for Lund,than what it means for Genmar,or even Brunswick. I certainly am! It is unlikly Genmar sold it for anything other than "profit taking",not because of any idea that aluminum doesnt have a future. Brunswick bought it,and smartly so, to somewhat resolve the loss of market issue,by a gaurantee of all these boats to a Merc engine. This is not a win/win situation,except for big business. Definitly a loss for the consumer.If he chooses any of these boats,he surrenders his right of choice for a brand of power,and worse,to a brand who's reputation,for reliability and service has fallen below par compared to the competition. Some tough choices may lie ahead for Lund devotees.I would think that there would also be concern with what Brunswick will do to the quality of Lunds. My fear is they would eventually be "cheapened up" in order to increase profits. Many already say that if you buy Lund,you are paying for the name. As a current Lund owner who has owned several different major brands I know its more than that,but maybe in the future,"just paying for a name" may become a true statement?? New formed hull techology?Unlikly. You have a better chance that the weanie bean counters at Brunswick corporate office will close down the Lund factory and build Lunds in the Lowe factory.

the word

03-09-2004, 07:03 PM

You have not heard? JLD is a Merc pro and a Yar-craft pro! I can only assume he will be runinng a Brunswick boat with the new Merc 4stroke.

Bob 0

03-09-2004, 07:27 PM

Are you trying to convince me that a top of the line lund is higher priced than a Ranger? Stop smoking the funny weed!

The point I was making is simply that they have to phase out lines over time in order to focus on their primary product, or else face competing with themselves... which is a marketing waste. They have likely decided to focus on their primary market which is the big ticket glass boat. They sell the other lines to other companies. They drastically cut their marketing costs and allow for stronger focus on the primary product. Yes they have competition again from thsoe products lines new owners, but it makes difference to them as it is no different than when they competed against themselves anyway. They have likely found out that their glass lines will stand up to any test by the competition. At the same time, the company has managed to cut a ton of overhead and improve their bottom line as well as pack away a healthy profit. That is smart business.

And it is great for the consumer having these product lines out from under one owner as it will stimulate healthy competition and lead to better pricing and package schemes.