Negativism towards tournaments

[JJ Mac]

I monitor a few websites for the Bays De Noc and it is unbelievable all the negativity towards walleye tournaments and pro anglers. Is it that bad everywhere, and is this trend on the rise? I look forward to PWT and other tournaments, and learn so much each time. What can be done to educate people better and support the fisheries where tournaments are held?

[Fuzzy]

People are pretty much the same everywhere - some love the idea of tourneys(weigh-in crowds) and some hate everything about it and everyone in it. Maybe it's a jealously thing or they think pros look silly in sponsor boats, patch jackets and fancy pants. Worst yet is that most people really don't care or are even aware of tourneys in their area. Remember that even though our world is getting bigger and better, it is still relatively small.

[ezmarc]

In the last 4 years of traveling around doing tournaments I've had very few negative comments. The only one I can remember specifically came at a gas station in Cleveland when someone complained about me being a gas hog for having a SUV and a 225 motor on the boat. I think my gas bill that day was about 110 bucks so I was a little in awe myself!

It's been very positive everywhere I've gone although I did hear of some PETA complaints at the Dunkirk event last year but I never saw it firsthand. Maybe I have my head in the sand but I think there are just a few load protesters out there but lots of the silent fans.

[Sunshine]

This Thread was posted on Nove 10th.

Now they announce Bay de Noc for the Cabela's tourney and here it is again.

Who's looking for trouble?

Tell me this isn't a troll?

Mr. Moderator, how do people bring back old threads?

[Ron Anlauf]

We've had plenty of negative tournament coverage and commentary here in Minnesota as well but it originates from a very small but loud minority. I beleive some of it is born out of jealousy. Some of it has been earned by a very small number of "Pros" who didn't act in a professional manner. By and large the comments I have personally experienced were extremely positive. Most wanted to know where I've been and how well I had been doing. The best thing you can do for the sport is to always act professionally no matter what the situation and no matter how much money is on the line.

Ron Anlauf

[JLDII]

If more "pro's" were like you, we would not have this problem. You have always set a high standard, Thank You!

See you on the pond!

[JJ Mac]

Sunshine,

I had nothing to do with or made any posts on the Nov 10 topic. I just posted this topic today because of honest concern. I'm not trolling or trying to get a rise out of people.

[The Democrat]

I don't fish tournaments, I just share the water with them, and perhaps that qualifies me to speak for recreational fishermen in general.

Listen, there is no jealousy. Recreational fishermen don't care if you win $50,000, a new boat, or whatever. Lucky you, and more power to you. You paid a hefty entry fee, take fishing seriously, work at it, and you deserve it.

If a tournament puts a dozen 14-foot boats with 25-horse kickers on the lake, there won't be a problem. Recreational fishermen want two simple things, a relaxing day on the water and to catch some fish. When you have dozens of high-powered boats on the water that run-and-gun all over the lake pounding all the spots, this pretty much wrecks everyone else's weekend unless it's a very big lake. The tournament is about as welcome as water skiers and jet skiers, for the same reasons. Jealousy has nothing to do with it.

Let's face it, big tournaments and recreational fishing don't mix, but I have no agenda against tournaments. I'm willing to accept the burden of getting out of the tournament's way and going someplace else to fish. I like solitude. Where most of you fish, there's lots of lakes, therefore no excuse for mixing with a tournament if you don't like fishing in the middle of a tournament. However, if I'm there for whatever reason, I do expect the standard courtesies, which includes not running over me, or cutting in front of me and fishing my drift ahead of me. This isn't directed at tournament fishermen, it's directed at jerks in general, and tournaments don't create jerks. Jerks create themselves.

I fish mostly muskies, and given the low density of this species, ordinary fishing pressure is bad enough. In musky country, I don't just avoid tournaments, I avoid tournament lakes, even when there's no tournament on the water. Given plenty of lakes to fish, I prefer to invest my time in water that is less worked over.

In Washington State, the situation is a bit different. We have some water so big you hardly notice the tournament: Roosevelt Lake is 120 miles long, Banks Lake is 20 miles long, the Columbia River is hundreds of miles long, so there's room for all. In other places, you can adapt. Moses Lake hosts one walleye tournament a year, and you don't have to chose that weekend to fish Moses Lake. Go to Potholes just down the road. If Potholes has a tournament, go to Moses Lake just down the road. If Banks Lake has a tournament, go to Lake Roosevelt just up the road. You can make it work with a small tank of gas and no mental exertion at all.

My suggestion is, if you hear something negative, engage the person and find out what his point of view is. He may have something worth listening to. Then again, maybe not, but here is your opportunity to act as a goodwill ambassador for tournament fishing. Don't argue with the person, but offer to explain how tournaments operate, and take advantage of opportunities to clear up misunderstandings or dispel wrong assumptions. And here's another idea: If he feels crowded off the lake by the tournament, tell him you know where there's fish on a nearby lake and let him in on a couple of your spots there. He'll appreciate it, and after all, you're not going to be fishing those spots that day anyway, are you?

[Roger T.]

I have read that board as well. The main complaints are the numerous boats and high speed as well as pounding the regulars spots, the chamber of commerce delving out twice money to bring in a tournament that contributes to the local fish stocking, than the tournament actually contributed toward the restocking effort, the chamber of commerce claiming the money brought into the area at a half a million dollars (way over inflated), claims (unverified) that numerous walleye were found floating shortly after the tournaments, and a general irritation that the whole tournament scene is pillaging the resource for the sake of big business (sponsors) and to line the pockets of the competitors.

These are not my claims, so don't even bother to go off on me, but these were the basic complaints over the last 6 months and before.

[wheels]

He's been a registered member since Nov 10th. Thread was created on Feb 10th.


"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"

[wowthatsbad]

I have a very hard time with the people who think like that. Your area gets lots of money throwen their way. MEAT hogs, these are not the tour guys but the locals and the guides! We don't care about taking your walleye home we would rather leave them! 160 team events put about 250,000.00 into your local establishments. Then the tours turnaround and put dollars into your resource. HOW can they think thats bad? I don't get it, the problem is old "Joe" thinks that all the walleyes are his and anyone from out of town is the devil.

You guys need to get someone over there that can tell old "Joe" that the good out weighs the bad 100 to 1.

[Sunshine]

JJ Mac,

I apologize for assuming that this was a resurrected thread. Sure sounds familiar.

I don't want the guys heading to Bay de Noc to get the wrong impression from your thread. The people there are the salt of the earth and they have ALWAYS welcomed me with open arms.

I am not in the Cabela's tourney so my reaction is not coming as a contestant in this event. I head up to LBDN (little bay de noc) at least 1/2 dozen times each year. I do a couple of tournaments up there and the rest of the time it’s my fun get away weekends. I've been doing it for years.

I keep coming back because the fishing is great and the people are awesome. I have NEVER seen any negativism toward tournament fishermen up there. The only mention was on a thread from a different web site where I thought things got out of hand by a few vocal individuals that did not represent the majority.

Guys, you’ll have a great time in LBDN! Don’t let this thread scare you. The people up there are great.

[stepman]

I only fish a few low dollar local tour. and 1 or 2 of the bigger tourn. and have to agree that most complaints come from meat hunters and a few local wannabes. I consider myself a pleasure fisherman but like the challenge of the occasional tourn. In my area the fishing has become one of the best sauger fisheries in the country and I believe the money generated from the tournaments and reinvested is the biggest reason. Because of my involvement in these tourn. my life and knowledge has been enriched from all the people I've met and became friends with. I'm not saying that all tourn. anglers act professional but 98% do. Almost all tourn. are catch and release so no matter how many fish are caught they are returned to be caught another day. I believe the positives far out weigh the negatives. Remember you dont have to be a professional to act professional. Just my opinion

[jigman 2003]

I would just like to agree that the recreational fisherman's problem with tournaments is that they affect fishing and quality of time on the water. On large impoundments they are not as noticeable, but on smaller bodies of water they do. I personally will not fish the same water the day of a tournament. Too many guys blowing past me at 50 mph and making a calm day one in which it is difficult to maintain anchorage. I would like to see some unbiased research on the kill ratio of fish that are released. Some university undergrad must need a topic of research. I cannot believe that on a hot day in August there isn't a pretty high number of fish that die after being "released". My releases are immediate, not after bouncing around in a livewell for 6 hours. Just my two cents. I just wish that perhaps there were some regulations governing tournaments. I don't want to see them end, just reduce their numbers and possibly restrict the size of the lake they can occur on.

[Big Willy]

I think those release records are flawed too. Lot's of floaters at the PWT on LOTW last year. I revived many fish all 3 days that I grabbed as they floated downstream past the public docks. I was very surprised to see 2 kids of about 10 and 12 manning the final release tank at the edge of the water.

[boatman]

I also saw all the floaters here at LOTW, pretty sad. Seems to me this also happened at Devils Lake not so long ago. I'm not against tourneys I fish a few myself, but there must be a better way to protect the fish from tournament mortality. Unfortunatly it has'nt been figured out yet. My 02 cents

[Terroreyes]

I love when tournaments come to town. I'm on the Detroit River/Erie though, so there's plenty of room in most places. I would see some peoples point if it was on a small body of water. Not too hard for me to spot a tournament fisherman and I like to just hang at a safe distance sometimes and just watch and learn, especially while people are out prefishing during the week. I don't even mind the long wait at the ramp. Get to meet some people, check out the boats, maybe catch a weight-in, and eyeball what the sucessful guys left rigged and laying out :). Some areas do get tight in the spring, but that's no problem because they usually drive the fish out of that area and I'll hang on the outskirts.

One thing that does burn me though is dead fish. Only one tournament was real bad and it did get me ticked. Some low budget walleye/bass combo tournament. I kid you not, just dozens of dead fish everywhere down the river after weigh-in. I'd say 50+ from that one small tourney alone. Most anglers just dumped their fish off the side of the dock, ticked off because they didn't do well, and just walked away. I only saw one angler actually make an effort to get his fish off in good shape.

All in all, I think they are a positive thing for this area. Brings in some dollars locally and the enviromental and recreational impact is minimal here. I don't hear any locals complain about anything more than the long line at the launch. We've got the big pleasure boats to annoy us. Probably a much different story elsewhere.
[br][div align="center"][br][center][br][font color="#3300CC";font face="Roman"; size="+1"][br][br]Terroryes

[Kevin B]

I don't know how much I have said previously about this topic. But I'll say my piece. And it will be a long one.

I disagree with tournament fishing. But it isn't JUST tournament fishing that I disagree with. I'll be clear: My disagreement arises from my religious beliefs. I believe that fish are provided to humankind as food. Just as are cattle, deer, turkeys, lobsters, shrimp -- all gifts from God. I do not fish for "sport". I disagree with "sport" fishing. I fish because I eat fish, i.e., I accept these gifts from God. I do not go out fishing "for fun". Fun accompanies fishing, but it is not my motivation to fish. And believe me, I get plenty excited when I catch a ten. I do not agree with slot limits because I keep the fish I catch to eat (although I realize slot limits serve a purpose, I think the goal can be achieved via other methods). I am not going to put a fish through whatever it is to have a hook in your mouth because I think it is "fun" to catch fish. I do not hunt ducks or deer or elk for "fun" or "sport" but because it is one of the gifts I accept for my table. And, of course, I am as proud as can be when I bring home a pair of Gadwall for dinner. I would not like to entertain any thoughts about being unable to continue being a hunter-gatherer. I am absolutely a hunter-gatherer. In the same breath, I realize that each human being has their own notion of religion, spirituality, God, and the like. You do not have to agree with mine. I can accept our differences on the subject.

But at the core of my disagreement lies something that causes opponents to tournaments to house their dislike: they see no purpose in fishing tournaments. Tournaments are a competition for a natural resource of which the goal is to prove "I can gather more of this resource than you can . . . and I'll bet you $10,000 I can do it". Pretty flimsy. The goal of the tournament has no practical value in the eyes of the public opponents. You can argue that money drives our country & the world, but something just doesn't sit right about "fishing for money". You can use Thomas Hobbes' argument that "Competition is the fabric of mankind" and I will agree with you. But for the General Public (GP), they can't justify extracting fish from their environment for the sole purpose of money (whether that be a modified version of money such as a new Lund Boat or Silverado or prize money itself). Bowling tournaments are unlike fishing tournaments in that there is no natural resource at stake. When "creatures" or "life forms" are involved in the competition, the competition takes on a different ethical perspective. And that is what PETA, the Sierra Club, and the like have problems with. I will give a modified personal example.

Each year, at Christmas-time, my wife invites all the other executive secretaries and a few of the investment bankers from her office to our house for dinner. (I get to be the chef for 9-14 women, ranging in age from 24-60). I serve them a variety of dishes, but always include at least one wild game dish. These are women who grew up in, or currently reside in, middle to higher SES families. Most of them know more about the stock market, mortgages, and money management than I'll ever dream of knowing. All of them know more about fine dining etiquette, fashion, and art than I care to know. Get the picture? These are educated women with high incomes who live in $400,000 houses -- the type of person who donates to PETA & the Sierra Club.
The first year, only half of them sampled the wild game dishes. Now, only the strictest vegetarians of the group DON'T sample the wild gme dishes. Last year, the conversation came up about me -- that I hunt and fish dilligently. I explained that: "I do not shoot any animal that I do not eat. Although I love hunting, you can't take me on a Caribou hunt with all expenses paid because I detest Caribou meat . . . in fact, one of my best friends & hunting partners offered to take me on an all expenses paid trip and I declined." I went on, "I do not fish at every opportunity that presents itself because I only need so much fish to last us through the year." There was not a single female who objected to my hunting & fishing. Not even those whom I know donate to the "antis". (And honestly, I think everyone sampled the wild game dishes this past Christmas).

So, until the tourney people can present a logical, ethical argument JUSTIFYING fishing tournaments, they will be a hard sell as the GP see no practical value in them.

As for me, I do not intend to launch any anti-tournament fishing campaign. In fact, I search for valid justification to sustain them. My reason to search for a sustenance of them lies in the fact that an awful lot of people agree with tournament fishing -- so maybe I'm not seeing something that they see. Until then, I will hold my belief on the subject.

I expect some counter-arguments to my post. I'm working lots of overtime, so I might not respond lickety-split.

[Reels]

Hey Sunshine, too much cheese between the ears? :-)


<{{}}><

[Toolman]

Back when survival of the fittest was really in vouge it meant being able to gather the most resources. Tournament fishing is a way of celebrating our history.

Why should tournament people have to present any argument-legitimate or not-as to why they should be able to do what they do? As long as it's legal, it's A-OK with me.

I can't disagree with your eat what you kill point, but that's my personal view as well. Some hunt/fish for sport, some do so for food, some for profit. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

Is it spring yet?;)

Tim

[Fishin for fun]

Kevin

I fish over 100 days a year, last year I keep 10 walleyes to eat. I dont beleive that in releasing fish I am going against what my God has told me either. I also fish tournaments, for the sport. I see nothing wrong with your choice, I think you use the resource at its full! My family will not eat the fish I catch, they would rather go to Red Lobster and injoy a plate full of shrimp. All this being said we live in a country that gives us many choices, your choice maybe much different than mine! I do not hunt anymore just because I find that I would rather have a T-bone than a deer steak. I like pheasant but find chicken a good alternative. Once again these are the choices I have made and thou they are much different than yours I see no real difference between us except our choices in life. I cant see how a fishing tournament can hurt a resource, much like most sports people injoy at different levels! Some people would rather spend a day out on the water with their kids and catch fish than sit in front of the TV on a summer Sat. My kids like the fact that we put the fish back to catch another day. I have never forced them to release fish, they just like to do it. They have now made their own choices, so they will grow up with some of my beliefs.

Bottom line is we all have choices in life, mine are different than yours. Who is right, I dont know. I will never judge you, I leave this up to God, so please dont judge me.

[cast_and_blast]

About the hunter/gatherer theory -

As far as hunting goes, I only kill what I eat as well. Just makes sense and there are laws against "wanton waste".

As far as the "gathering" of fish...I have a hard time swallowing it from a pure "I'm not doing this for any sport, just to provide" standpoint.

If you were truely interested only in providing you would not buy a boat, motor, rods, reels, electronics, licenses, etc. You would go to the store and buy walleye at $6.99 per pound and be ahead of the game.

I have no problem with tournament fishing. It's not a matter of "gathering", there is quite a bit of skill involved. I fish local club tourneys, we release fish right away and go off of length.

I respect your stance, I just don't think you are being 100% truthful with yourself.

Scott

[sevenmmm]

Oh yeah, I have spent alot of time in the LBDN area and there is anti-tournament sentiment through-out the county. Mostly it is from the working class folks who can not afford the equipment needed (to fish tournaments).

I have personally experienced this sentiment here, but also during the Lake City MWC event, so lets not isolate the LBDN area as the only place it exsists.

And do think there is potential for these sentiments to increase. With the higher cost of participating in this sport, some participants will go to extremes in trying to win the prize. All it is going to take is one tournament angler racing across the water at 65 mph and hitting a smaller boat filled with children out for a fishing trip with old grandpa - to turn alot of folks against tournament angling - in a hurry.

And as how to educate those who dislike tournaments in this community? Thats a question to hard for me to answer. But do think the expanse of Little and Big Bay, plus the ensuing open waters, does make this a perfect choice to exercise tournament anglers.

As long as the business community embraces the sport, this will be a popular destination for tournament promoters.

[The Democrat]

If you study history, you will realize agriculture allowed a human population expansion and the industrial revolution allowed it to expand even more. If humanity reverts to a hunting/gathering economy, the human population will shrink drastically, because the resource base simply can't begin to support the current population in this way. The truth is, survivalist ideas that tell people to go live in the woods after a nuclear war depend on most of the population being wiped out by the war. Meanwhile, until that day comes, without catch and release many of our waters couldn't even sustain a sport fishery.

[sevenmmm]

Thats way to hard of an idea for these folks to chew on, my friend.
:-)

[nuked eyes]

WOW

55 years after the big ones hit, the Walleye that make through, will be like mutants 45lbs with teeth like sharks and fight like Samon on 6lb lines. Hope some people make it through and get to wet a line to catch them monsters! LOL

[Roger T.]

As I said, "this was the stuff on the boards", so DON"T BLOW OFF AT ME!

[Rambo]

I like the train of thought. But it is important to remember, if much of the population is wiped out, omnly the ones with the guns will have any real power. Why do you think that scares the Gubmint types?

[Escanaba Joe]

"We don't care about taking your walleye home we would rather leave them!"

Leaving them floating after sloshing around in the fishbox all day is not leaving the resource in good condition, but it is leaving them.

"160 team events put about 250,000.00 into your local establishments."

Based on what numbers? These numbers get thrown around like a fart in a wind storm. The truth is that some amount of money is made at hotels/motels, restuarants and at the gas station, but there is very limited spending otherwise. The turnouts for the weigh-in are not that impressive. And frankly, 320 people turning up in the city to stay at hotels, camp and go to restuarants is not really causing an employment boom! The actual money brought into the area is likely well under $50,000 with the chamber spending $10,000 to get it to show up! Also, this is not WI. Dells or Northern WI. where there is little industry. Therre is industry in Escanaba and they do not need to rely on tourist bucks to survive.

"I don't get it, the problem is old "Joe" thinks that all the walleyes are his and anyone from out of town is the devil."

In fairness to local Joe, he does pay the local and property taxes and the out of towners do not. I beleive that is the main reason they feel their say in their local community outweighs the out of towner 100-1!
Then the tours turnaround and put dollars into your resource. HOW can they think thats bad?

When the chamber spends $10,000 to bring in a tournament and the tournament spends $5,000 on restocking efforts, it makes as much sense to have the chamber put it right into the restocking and spend $5,000 on business recruiting. And in the end, fewer fish floating around after the tournament.

[Get Real]

Yeah Rick,

You are so above everyone. You have become a legend in your own mind.

[Heres a thought]

If you truelly want to make an impact in the community to ensure future tournaments, you have to think outside the box...


Yes, there is money comming into the community during a tournament, how? Good question. However, it is a very limited and short bump on the economic graph of the area. So small it qualifies only as a bump and not even a spike of economic activity.

Now, when a chamber of commerce recruits a business into the community, it has long term on going economic impact on the local economy and does make a difference to the community... unlike fishing tournaments. There is no replacing of a resource involved as much as protection of resources. That is a positive to start with.

What can the tournament folks do to have a lasting, ongoing, long term impact on a local community?

I think you have to look beyond a few thousand in a restocking program, floating fish and a temporary bump in the economy to please locals beyond their thoughts of it being allot of hoopla about nothing and a rape of the resource for economic gain by outside companies.

What types of things you ask? Perhaps instead of awarding $450,000 dollars to a tournament winner, the sponsors should be spending $100,000 on the resource in the community of the tournament and cut the winners takings back by a substantial amount. After all, the spirit of the competition is really what tournament fishing is all about.

At LBDN, they (sponsors)could easily dump far more than 5 grand toward restocking.

And then there is the potential for bringing business expansion into these communities as well. A factory? Manufacturing facility? Some type of resouce educational facility or natural resource college or even a substantial donation to one?

Just a couple of ideas, but the main point is that instead of appearing to spread their name, they appear to spread the wealth to the local community, then perhaps the locals can see things in a different light.

[stevefellegy]

I have to jump in here...and I won't debate the fishing aspect of this thread. BUT....your view of the tournaments being a "very limited and short bump on the economic graph of the area" is WAAAAY off base in countless examples around the country. Spring Valley, Ill., Port Clinton, OH., Bay de Noc, MI., Augres MI., Mobridge, S.D., Devels Lake,N.D., Baudette, Mn. and so on...are ALL experiencing tourism booms directly related to the major walleye tournament circuits of the past 20 years. The facts...and crowds are real. And the dollar/impact amounts are real! The marketing of this walleye tournament industry has been responsible for multi-millions of dollars to MANY! The impacts of the fishing industry reach to SUV sales, clothing sales, motel projects and countless indirect "bumps" to yours and many other economies, in countless ways. The money the chamber spends on tournaments is well spent! The ripple effect that happens in marketing from major magazines, television shows, pro seminars and sportshow appearances and so on are priceless compared to the direct local investment.

Put the positives and the negatives of tournament fishing on a balance beam...see which way it swings....and think about how YOUR fishing equipment and thought process related to fishing has changed in the past 10 to 20 years and ask why!

Can we do better on behalf of the locals and walleye tournaments and the resources? You bet..and we will continue to try!

I am not gonna debate here....just offering my two cents worth. I appreciate all concerns , either side, on these issues.

[Big Willy]

Tourism growth in Baudette is in no way related at all to tournaments of any type, bigtime or not. The tourism industry has been doing fine and growing steadily for years. Economic boost while big tourney is in town? Try again, all the rooms, cabins, and campsites would have been reserved by regular joe tourist types last May.

That arguement holds no water and is WAAAY off base, at least up here. Perhaps these alleged facts are incorrect in other locals as well.

[get it right]

I was at the MWC last year my partner and I spent well over $1,800. I dont know where you think we stay and eat or the guys that go out and have some drinks. Maybe next time I can stay at your house I'll gladly pay you the 312.50 that you think is spent per team, oh by the way you cook, and put gas and bait and lunches and everything eles I need in my boat! All those floaters your talking about, where are they? Day one we stayed in Little bay, day two was nice so I cant see how fish got lost. If ten fish were floating that was a huge loss to you! Wonder what its like in july when we are not there how many floaters then?

Your Chamber would'nt want us if there was not a very good profit in it for the businesses around town! Your the reason that people get MAD because your so misinformed!

[little willy]

Willy

Before the PWT started going up to LOTW how was that Sept. dead time? You got put on the map because of all the great press!

I remember fishing So. St. Paul on the Miss. river 12 years ago if you saw 10 boats on a very nice day in March it was packed. NOW I will not even go! Same thing at LOTW PRESS PUT YOU ON THE MAP! Huge baskets from the PWT was all it took to get your ball rollin!

[another thought]

Fishing tournaments in no way should be responsible for moving big business into your town. Without the resourse you would'nt even be on the map! This is sad but true, without the fishery your area would have been dead along time ago! I love you guys that come on here and preach about a 2 or 3 day event KILLING all your fish! Your a joke, opening day alone you and your freinds kill more fish than anyone event could! I'm sorry you think we are rapeing your system but that sir is far from the truth!

[what]

Joe

Your over thinking yourself! The area businesses put up the money and then get it all back in return and then some. Ask your chamber for the list of area businesses that gain from us being there! Go to each place and get some numbers. You have a fine fishery and a nice area but your kidding yourself. So you never go to another state and fish or hunt? I pay much more in taxes than you and I dont mind when people fish our waters! Your logic on this matter is way off! You should go to your Chamber with your BS and not here because we no much better! I spent over $14,000. last year fishing and 1 cent in my own state! I know you dont care but your town does!

[tunnel vision]

"Yes, there is money comming into the community during a tournament, how? Good question. However, it is a very limited and short bump on the economic graph of the area. So small it qualifies only as a bump and not even a spike of economic activity."
The same can be said of ANY event there, including the UP state fair.


"What can the tournament folks do to have a lasting, ongoing, long term impact on a local community?"

Just what they are doing now, promoting the daylights out of the area. Not only do the tournaments bring in all the anglers and support, but many anglers fish there for a week before and a few weekends besides leading up to the tourney.

Then you have all the guys up there in the spring and the fall fishing for the fish that are there, and that are known about due to the tournaments being there.

You have blinders on if you think your area needs no tourism. I bet you wouldnt tell the people that live or die by tourism the same garbage you spew here. It used to be the Hotels and restaurants were only hopping in the winter with the snowmobiliers and again in the summer around the State fair.

Now many hotels and resorts will tell you they can still exisist due to the fishermen, and not just the tourney giuys but the fishing club guys and the backbone of our sport, the average angler.

These last few winters have been terrible for the hotels and the like as there has been such lousy snow cover. I have had 2 different hotel owners and one chamber person tell me if it wasnt for the anglers keeping them filled from Sept till ice up, and again for opener, they would have gone under.

Wake up and smell the coffee my friend.

[Umm]

Back up your wild hypotesis with facts. call your CVB or Chamber and ask them why the upswing. They know why, you don't.

[Just ask]

Just ask the locals in the Chamber, or the locals in the Fishing Club that do the stocking what they think. Ask the fisheries biologists about the fisdh that are there because of the MWC, the fishing club and mead paper. You are all wet.

[Then again]

"are ALL experiencing tourism booms directly related to the major walleye tournament circuits of the past 20 years."

That does cover the point: Escanaba does not rely on tourism dollars for an economy. And with an influx of tourists you feel the locals should be excited. This area is NOT LOTW where you rely on tourists. Get excited about the tourists coming to LOTW, then stop and think about why you guys are experiencing fish population problems and regulation.

A fishing tournament is not going to cause an Escanaba man to run down and buy a vehicle if he didn't already have the thought to do it for other reasons.

The actual dollars brought into a single area during a tournament is not that great and does represent a bump on the graph. The ripple effect is in the area of tourism which is not the bread and butter of Escanaba as it is for true resort towns. The ripple of tourists coming to town to fill the multitude of new hotels going up is a hoot. They don't fill the existing hotels now and nothing new is going up. Casino gambling has a larger effect to the area and fills more rooms AND is a permanent fixture to the community as well as supplys jobs.

As for equipment, I have to consider that many of the Rod, Reel and tackle improvements were made as a result of inovation by average fishermen who brought forth ideas and inventions to enhance their fishing. Many of the pro's simply picked up on them and use them, in most cases after a product is already up for testing at which point the pro is asked by a sponsor to field test a product and feature it in the tournaments. They can spend the same money running ads on tv to get the things marketed.

But, getting back to the point you clearly AGREE with - yes these tournaments are quite a commercial venture at the expense of the local resource and while the local guy might well benefit from a fishing gadget improvement or invention, a sale at the local car lot, or a few rooms filled at the local hotel, the fact remains that it is at the expense of the local resource that locals attempt to enjoy while the sponsors loot profits from the entire venture.

Perhaps if those sponsors put manufacturing facilities and stores in those different communitys, the story would be totally different.

But, the last I checked, only WalMart was in Escanaba. No RCL facility, no Cabelas and etc... and only a few local tackle producers who are NOT sponsors of the tournaments (nor receive any exposure outside of the pros who buy a lure). And no, a local marina or boat dealer does not count any more than any other products sold from manufacturing outside of the area.

[YES]

"I remember fishing So. St. Paul on the Miss. river 12 years ago if you saw 10 boats on a very nice day in March it was packed. NOW I will not even go! Same thing at LOTW PRESS PUT YOU ON THE MAP! Huge baskets from the PWT was all it took to get your ball rollin!"

YES, that is exactly the point... now you won't even go out because it is too crowded, and the local guys are supposed to be happy.

These tournament backers have to realize that there has to be a balance between the exposure wanted and the exposure needed.

If your economy is a manufacturing economy, then NO you do not need a boat load of tourists in the area.

If your economy is tourism, then yes you do need the tourists in the area.

But, how many? Too many and the lakes are packed, the spots are taken and the resource gets depleted.

I think that all tournaments should be run out of big cities like Milwaukee, Chicago and Minneapolis so that the tourists can find a place close to home that can be developed into a great fishery instead of taking from the great fisheries that already exist!

[Actually]

Two guys spend $900.00 a piece INCLUDING the tournament fee (which leaves the area in the pockets of the winners) and the out of state fishing license fee (a very small portion of which will go to improved fishing in the area). After that you are back down to a few of hundred bucks that got spent at a hotel, diner and at the chain owned gas station.

Throughout the tournament the hotels add perhaps 2 people to the work schedule during the increased influx. However there are numerous guys who camp, some in the Walmart parking lot in their motor-homes to avoid the cost of a camp site.

And please get real about the weigh-in spectators. It isn't a huge turnout by any facit of the imagination. And many that are there are family and friends of the pros anyway.

If you want the tournaments to truelly impact the local community, consider tournament SPONSOR INVESTING in the local community and then watch the attitudes change. When the impact is long term (like generations) then it will be accepted as legitimate and not a resource rape for money.

[Actually]

Yes, the businesses will gladely assist you in pilaging the resource. That is why they spend $10,000 on the tournaments, get $5,000 toward the restocking program and the local restocking program is out begging for more money from the local fishermen in order to keep the resource up.

The excessive exposure is depleating the resource and yes tourism is up, on week ends. But local manufacturing is going to have the lasting effect to the community, not tourism. When the economy goes down (and it is currently up), so does the tourism. Then the locals have to rely on manufacturing, which is where the chamber should be pumping the bucks, not on tourism. But yeah, they know how to get a "quick buck" in their pocket! Also, don't forget that public taxes support many chamber programs by way of the local municipality contributing to the cause. And the local municipalities want manufacturing, not a new hotel, or new gas station or new Mc Donald's. Thoses businesses do not generate enough take home pay to make a difference in the community. They assist a local economy, they do not drive it! Now YOU "no" better!

[Get real]

"This is sad but true, without the fishery your area would have been dead along time ago!"

Actually it is there due to mining and shipping as well as manufacturing paper. The fishery was a side benefit to the area. It does not drive the economy today any more than it did yesterday. But in the interest of keeping your fishing honey (money) hole alive, I am sure that your skewed vision of what a tournament means to a community will not change.

If the tourism goes down the tubes, it is a slow year and yes those businesses that rely only on tourism will suffer.

However, when the local paper company shuts down, don't pretend that the fishing tournament and the tourism is going to save the community!

Dream ON!

[Get real]

As I said...

Actually it is there due to mining and shipping as well as manufacturing paper. The fishery was a side benefit to the area. It does not drive the economy today any more than it did yesterday. But in the interest of keeping your fishing honey (money) hole alive, I am sure that your skewed vision of what a tournament means to a community will not change.

If the tourism goes down the tubes, it is a slow year and yes those businesses that rely only on tourism will suffer.

However, when the local paper company shuts down, don't pretend that the fishing tournament and the tourism is going to save the community!

Dream ON!

[Get real]

As I said...

Actually it is there due to mining and shipping as well as manufacturing paper. The fishery was a side benefit to the area. It does not drive the economy today any more than it did yesterday. But in the interest of keeping your fishing honey (money) hole alive, I am sure that your skewed vision of what a tournament means to a community will not change.

If the tourism goes down the tubes, it is a slow year and yes those businesses that rely only on tourism will suffer.

However, when the local paper company shuts down, don't pretend that the fishing tournament and the tourism is going to save the community!

Dream ON!

[Get real]

The point that was made is still valid.

If the fishing tournaments want to be more accepted in a community, the tournament sponsors MUST do more than send a tournament to town and expose it to tourism because the effects are short term.

Bring more to the table than a promise of more tourism. Remember, tourism was alive and well before fishing tournaments. If that was not the case, you would never have seen the multitudes of resorts in the Northwoods. However, tourism is down tremendously from years ago and it is not becuase there was not a fishing tournament in town to "bring them in".

The alure of the North is gone today. It is a video game, internet and tv society that spends more time on gadgets than time with nature. The kids think that indian tom toms and moccasins are lame and do not care about folk lore at all. The average guy's vision of getting back to nature is a trip to the Milwaukee or Minneapolis Zoos. They get back to nature as they run from town to town for business purposes. These are a few of the reasons why tourism is down.

Yes, fishing and tournaments may bring exposure to the area, but it will NOT sustain a local economy that is already based on manufacturing.

You want the locals on board... To quote Jerry McGuire "Show me the money!" Do this in a lsting way by locating some facilities into town that will effect generations of citizens! You will not likely hear complaints then!

[what]

Your right and there will be no pleasing you, the guy with all the answers! I'm checking into your resource for over the past 30 years as we speak. Looks again that you dont know what your talking about!

[get it right]

ONCE again my partner and I SPENT over 1800 dollars in the area! NOT THE ENTRY> I have the receipts to prove this. You sure know alot, well really not much! Area hotel are booked up and ever go to the BUCK to eat? It's very easy to spend alot of money in your area. I like going there. WE are not, in 1 week hurting your fishery! This is the last I will respond to your misinformed posts. YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT then run your under educated mouth.

[jigman 2003]

Local communities and the economic impact tournaments have on them is certainly worth discussing. However, isn't it really the resource we need to discuss? I have seen several posts indicating that tournaments are directly responsible for adding fish to the lakes they fish. It would be interesting to me to see some unbiased reports showing the number of fish the tournaments add in relation to the kill ratio of "released" fish. I did not see any tourney fishers respond to my post on dead fish. Some input from them would be nice. Do they think all fish released survive? I would like to see the factual reports from the DNR's of these areas.
Here in WI we are looking at eliminating fish rearing facilities due to a lack of funds, the taxpayers will have to step in if we don't want to lose these facilities. Perhaps the MWC and PWT could put their money where their mouth is and start a fund raising effort for these facilities.

[orchard frank]

I came to the LBDN area as a tourist a few times and liked it so well that when my wife and I started to think about retirement this area was our choice. I joined the GLSF to meet people who fish and get involved with the community. I haven"t fished any tournaments other than small local ones. I have volunteered to work at several since moving here. I know that every effort is made to preserve fish and the ones that do die are not wasted. Efforts are also made to minimize interference with sport fisherman, including parking at ramps. I have not heard as much negetivism at the ramps as I have on websites. My personal experience has been that the tournaments are fun, and family oriented. I was at a talk given by a DNR biologist who stated that the fishery is in such good shape that the slot limit could be removed without any harm. I have also witnessed rivers in the spring literally clogged with walleyes. I do not think that the harm to fishery is a valid point IMO. I can understand however that it can be a little inconvenient to fish during the tournament, but the crowding issue is nothing compared to early season.

[No way]

Only where they hold the tournaments and it is only a pittance of what they pay out in winners fees. Big exposure for the sponsors, the local and cost to the resource locally. Don't expect them to kick in to the numerous fish hatcheries for a broad area.

[Actually]

When you are right, you do not allow your point to be bulldozed by someone who is wrong. So, no I will not be pleased by your inaccurate observations but beleive me, I am open minded, I just don't agree with you.

[Escanaba Joe]

And you imply that everyone blows money like you guys did? I highly doubt it. However, you did say you and your partner spent $1,800. Did you also save his receipts? I'm skeptical, but it doesn't matter as you are not likely the norm on the spending issue.

[truly]

truly ignorant.

I'd be willing to bet the average angler, in an MWC OR PWT tournament spends about a week pre fishing. The guys with the big boats spend 100 dollars everytime they fill up thier tanks, both boat and truck, on average.

They drive down to cedar River and across to Nama and the like to launch and pre fish. The money gets spread around.

They eat at least one big meal a day and breakfast. Lunch is usually taken in the boat, the food comes from C stores and places like elmers.

Tackle is bought, bait is bought and it costs well over 90 bucks for a room for 4 days.

If you consider 1800 dollars spent to be "blown" you show 2 things, extreme jealosy and you cannot afford to do the same thing. Not everyone spends a week or 1800 dollars, but I regularly spent 300 dollars there on the tournament weekend, and I live an hour a way and my partner lived in Escanaba and I stayed there. In an average MWC or Merc National per fishing I would spend 5 to 600 dollars, and I am on the low side!

You truly are misinformed and have an agenda, you are fooling no one but yourself. before you post and make yourself look even dumber, go to the chamber and ask them where they got the numbers. Stop at The Buck in and ask how much extra business comes their way during a tourney, or Bayview resort, or Sleepy Hollow or any other popular spot.

Until you, Mr Joe, have your facts straight, you'll need to stop yapping.

[what]

Joe

7 days of fishing out of town @ 125 ea. is not alot of money when you look at it. I find it hard to beleive that most people can go any where and fish much cheaper! We have all the receipts! I injoy going to your neck of the woods, but now feel VERY unwelcome!

If you are true and feel this way I truely feel sorry for you! Instead of telling us that we are not welcome maybe you should be telling your Chamber! Or better yet get involved with the bays area management. Your water ways have much less fishing pressure than many others! On openning weekend alone on say a Mille Lacs which is a much smaller fishery you can expect 6-10 thousand anglers. Cleaner waters and more forage have a huge impact on your fishery! A couple of tournaments a year on a body of water that size will never hurt it. Informed anglers that respect the waters and injoy fishing them cannot hurt the system. You can blame fishermen for all the bad days you have fishing, but maybe its you that needs to adapt. Next thing you are going to blame last years low waters on the tournaments.

[sevenmmm]

Very good post Orchard Frank.

This debate will never die. At one extreme are the tournament anglers who have a perception that everyone should love them and how dare anyone have the audacity to question his/her right to fish tournaments.

Ot the other (extreme), we have those who are insanely jealous of the (tournament) anglers pulling into their town with those big colorful fancy rigs and catching their fish - all for the sake of winning money. We could go on about some other of their thoughts, but that would dilute my point of the sides being equal. ;-)

These perceptions are real in the minds of these opposing factions and will continue to bring interesting debate to message boards.

[Fuzzy]

Our ecomony affords a hunting/fishing population to enjoy such as a recreation. Humanity is hardly ever going to "revert to a hunting/fishing economy". C'mon Democrat - you are better than that.

[Rick Stange]

Well,
I don't claim to understand all of the economic ramifications a major tournament has or doesn't have on any local economy. I can tell you that I personally have spent my hard earned money in cities that I otherwise would have never been to if I had not been fishing MWC tournaments. Example: my average expenditure in the cities of Gladstone & Escanaba for the Bay de Noc tournament averaged $482.06 per year in lodging, fuel, food, bait, license & misc. expenses. This comes from the expense reports I fill out for each tournament over the last five years. Is $2,410.30 enough for anyone to retire on? No, but times that by the number of anglers who are in those cities each year for tournaments. Adds up to a pretty goodly amount.
My question is this. I pay for a Michigan non resident license. If I choose to use that license to legally fish tournaments, why does anyone have a problem with that? I'm not there to take YOUR fish. (OK, I have to admitt, each of our three teams that work together keeps two fish during pre-fishing so that we can have a Saturday night fish fry) As tournament anglers, we do everything in our power to keep fish alive. Where does the anomosity come from? I am no different then a local, non tournament angler. In fact, most weekends that is exactly what I am on Minnesota waters, with the exception that I rarely keep any 'eyes for table fare. Catch & release isn't just to avoid the dead fish penalty during a tournament, it's an everyday occurence in my boat. I am no different then any angler, tournament or non tournament. I just happen to enjoy competition while fishing once in awhile.
Rick Stange

[Local Economy]

Well alot of the area business is either the paper industry or car (http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw)" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A> parts (machining), so if you look at the Cabelas catalog, printed on high gloss paper, and the MWC pamphlet also, it could be a Mead product. By being the paper that they specialize in, it is creating a market demand, even if it isn't Mead's product, it is improving the market and creating local job (http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw)" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||job|AA1VDw">job</A>s!!! Car parts are simple, they have to travel (http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||travel|AA1VDw)" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||travel|AA1VDw">travel</A> to get here. You are obviously very ignorant to economics. People spend money, everyone benefits, some more directly than others. Try to think past your mailbox.

[Kevin B]

I oppose tournament fishing philosophically, not practically. So do the antis. Nobody has posted a logical, philosophical argument supporting the justification of tournament fishing. It is this type of argument which the antis will use against you -- and win in court. Merely saying "I don't have to justify tournament fishing ..." will be a downfall as tourney fishing will sooner or later come under legal scrutiny.

If your comment is "it ain't illegal..." My response is: "No, not yet." Coyote hunting competitions (tournaments) are now banned in lots of states. Trapping is all but banned. (I used to trap). I think tournament fishing is next in line. I explained why it is next in line in my above post.

True, our society is no longer agrarian -- and that's a big problem! When we lived on farms, hunting & fishing was normal behavior. Now, it is seen by an increasing population as abnormal behavior -- or at least unnecessary behavior. We have moved from an agrarian society, to an industrial society, to a high-tech-electric society. As this trend continues, "creatures" will be afforded more "rights". As people are farther removed from the "soil itself" they will lose touch, and all concern, for a hunter-gatherer relationship with the earth. As the populations of hunter/fishermen continue to decline, the power of the vote goes to those who are not hunter-gatherers. Wanna guess how they will vote on tournament fishing?

I did some time in law school. Now I'm completing my PhD. I analyze public policy. Believe me, those who want to keep tournament fishing had better come up with a solid, logical, philosophical, reason to justify tournament fishing. Practical reasons will only fend off your opponents briefly. At best, practical reasons will only result in more restrictions (laws). Better come up with a sound theoretical reason for tournament fishing.

[my turn]

Kevin

Since you said you have studied Law, there are always two sides to every story. You now must prove to me that I hurt a fishery by simply fishing in a tournament. You don't care for tournaments and that is your right. I dont care to keep fish and that is my right. Funny thing about the government is money talks, MANY industry companies will fight very hard to keep the money flowing. These boats of today are directly related to tournament fishing. Same goes for motors and electronics. These companies have deep pockets when its going to hurt them. You and 10 of your buddies out for a weekend of fishing will more than likely kill more fish than a 100 boat tournament. I fish lake Mille Lacs, the DNR is finding out now that the kill rates are much less than they thought in the past. Holding pens are being use to do this massive study.

Over the past 5-6 year the tours are going to water at specific times of the year, they do this so they get the best LIVE release rates. This is a resorce and it will continue to be used until the end of time! No one group should have the right to govern our waters! People that just fish or people that just boat, have no more right to the water than the other. You kill fish, you have no right to tell someone that they may not fish unless they adhere to your beliefs. I would hope none of this stems from jealousy, as others had brought up. I am not jealous of the guy on the lake down the street with the 38' cabin cruiser. WE ALL can share the great waters we have available to us. I will fish for the rest of my life as my father did and his father, I will also fish tournaments until I am no longer physically able to. IN NO way do I disrespect the waters that I fish, I'm sure that a select few do, I'll also very sure that many non-tournament fish over harvest and dis-respect the waters. All the fish in the water were not automatically created to caught and then filleted, its my right as a licensed angler to use the waters as I see fit within the laws provided. I have never seen a law on the books that tells me I must keep what I catch. I will never see this law!

Please tell use all how we hurt your fishery, I'm interested? Im sure I alone can get a few of the millions in my state to show support. REMEMBER all this would have to be put to a vote, most all sportsmen will vote the reality! ONCE they take a bite they want the whole thing, we have been regulated to death as sportmen for the last 20 years! Some how and at some time, we are not going to stand for this anymore. I feel sorry that think for 1 week that 200 or so anglers can hurt a fishery. Wonder what it looks like on opening day on your home waters?

[sevenmmm]

Kevin B

Really liked your post and believe in what you write may be in our future. The arrognce of those at the top of the tournament pyramid, is immense. What they fail to realize is these tournaments are held on public water subject to the rules of society, which may deem these tournaments as a hazard to the general population (read: not the fish).

If tournaments are banned, it will be a function of these anglers in their conduct on the water.

As to a philsophical ideal. Much like any sport, it is the thrill of the competition. If man is ever rid of the many emotions felt 'in the heat of battle', there would be nothing. There would be no Nascar races, no footbll games, no Olympics, no sports, nothing.

We are by nature endowed with an emotional response to our enviroment. Either by feeling the pain of a fishless day, or the sense of accomplishment of a successful catch, to the wild excitement realized with a tournament win - these emotions are in us, driven to be felt (sorry, this is very hard to do).

Now whether the public will allow this sport to continue will solely be a function of the tournament promoters, anglers, and the fans who support them. It will be HOW these people meet the concerns of the rest of society.

It doesn't look to good at the moment. Arrogant greedy old men encouraging self-important young men to race about and around the fishing public will be the ruin of the sport.

Plan to enjoy it while I can...;-)

[justa fishermen]

I want to see all sides to this debate, but I'm having a hard time! Seems the people in the Bay de Noc area that are on here fighting for their cause are kind of over stating a few things.
I went back through last years totals for the MWC, they are as follows:

155 teams entered=310 anglers total
1,553.59 lbs of fish weighed divided by the 310= 10.02lbs of fish per team over 2 days. Thats 2.5 lbs of fish per man per day.

2.5lbs of fish and we are here debating- arguing, come on people! I cannot see how any one that had any common sense would see this as hurting a fishery of that size. Even if some of the teams kept some fish during prefishing and brought it up to 5lbs we are not talking about alot of the fish in this system.

I can however see how some would like to see growth in the area. However what does that have to do with a tournament? The whole idea of your Chamber is to get people to come to your area! I'm sure your Chamber would love to have "Big Business" come to town but if they are'nt they must find other avenues. Tournaments are not responsable for for your areas growth, they do a good job of bringing in people that would otherwise not be there. Some get impacted directly from tournaments being there, other such as local land owners may not. You pay your taxes and Lic. to fish the waters, when we come to town we must also pay for a lic. I have 5 out of state lic's. Ranging from $15-$45, I must have these lics. to fish the waters. Every state needs out of state fishermen, look up the #s of dollars that are received in your state every year for these lic. I'm am sure that your DNR would hate to see these funds lost.
We as tour anglers feel that a great resourse such as yours, are great places to visit and fish. Tons of water,good fishing and a very nice small town atmosphere. Please allow us this one little priveldge to use a great resourse, we are not there long and are really not there to hurt you or your great fishery! In most cases if you come up and talk with us you will find we are much like you, we have a strong passion for what we do and where we are. We are'nt in your town to take over anything, we are there to fish and compete! We never really want to feel not welcome, and never want you to feel that we are there to take over. Please come sit down and talk to us, we don't bite. I think that if you gave us a chance we might change your minds on a few things.

Thanks for some time

Gordy Powers

[Big Willy]

>Willy
>
> Before the PWT started going up to LOTW how was that Sept.
>dead time? You got put on the map because of all the great
>press!
>
> I remember fishing So. St. Paul on the Miss. river 12 years
>ago if you saw 10 boats on a very nice day in March it was
>packed. NOW I will not even go! Same thing at LOTW PRESS PUT
>YOU ON THE MAP! Huge baskets from the PWT was all it took to
>get your ball rollin!

Sorry the Ball was rolling many years before the PWT was even organized. September has always been a quite month, still is, kids back to school and the hunting seasons have'nt started up yet. To say this area was put on the map because of tourneys or press is complete hog dung.

[Sunshine]

Gordy,

That was well written and nicely said. I’m going to address a concern about the perception of the Bay de Noc area.

Up front I want to say that I'm not doing this tournament (wish I was :-( ). I have no vested interest in its outcome except the fact that I have a few friends in it and hope they do well.

What concerns me the most is the fact that some people may get the idea that they are unwelcome there. A very very small vocal minority is speaking out and I'm afraid that those of you who are preparing for this tournament will get the wrong idea about this community and its people.

Like many people on this board, I fish between 8-14 tournament days a year. I also guide fulltime in the summer months. Anyone want to take a guess where I go for "fun fishing"? When I get a chance to sneak away and relax I head up to the Bay de Noc area. For me that's about a 4 1/2 hour drive to God's country.

Now, do you want to know why I go? It's not just for the great fishery (although it is awesome under the right conditions). If I was looking for “just” the best fishing, I would head in the opposite direction and in about the same timeframe I would be in the Lake Erie region. No, I head up there because of the people. IMHO, they are the nicest people in the world. They are nice, friendly, God fearing folk that share the same ethics and have the same moral beliefs that I try to uphold. People walk around with smiles on their face and they will lend a hand to stranger in need. Every stranger is a friend in waiting. I’ve been going up there for enough years to witness first hand acts of courage and good faith. I forward to getting off the water and interacting with the community just as much as I look forward to getting in the boat and interacting with ten pound fish.

I know that those of you who are the lucky chosen ones who will be fishing this tournament will come back with great stories about your experience. Enjoy the trip, the community, the scenery, and the food. It will be a great experience. And remember that you are ambassadors for all of us, so behave, I want to be welcome when I come back.

[justa fishermen]

Thanks Sunshine;

I too have felt welcome in the Bays area. I just feel that those few that visit this site(as well as others) are missing out on a few of the facts. I really like the area, even though I have not done well there. I look at this post and see SOME dont care for us being there. I am just trying to understand why? ALL the people that I have met from that area were very kind and freindly. I want to know why some would come on here not posting their names and bash the tour people? To my knowledge we have never done anything to them, other than fish the same waters. This board is a great source of info. on all the best fisheries avalible to us! Whenever I see these neg. comments about fishermen I wonder where they start? I consider the aspects of their community and fishery to one of the best in the upper Midwest. I know that some will always want to stir the pot, but we as fishermen would rather have some facts that would back some arugements. I like the fact that the bays area Chambers feel some need to bring us into the area, I hope they feel they get what they expect while we are there. In large we fishermen are a group with the same passion whether we fish tournaments or are just out for the weekend. "WE" as sportsmen need to bind together for the common cause, the priveldge and quality of the great fisheries! I would be proud to bring my family to the area on vacation, there are many things to see and injoy, fishing is but a small bit of the areas treasures. I just cant see how I would help the Bays area by not going. The tours bring many good anglers to the area some will return to fish other wont, some will spend alot of money other wont. Either way the guys are there, some have traveled lond distances to injoy the areas fish. 15% of them will go home with some money in their pockets, the top 10 might even come out ahead. ALL the others such as myself will go home with nothing but memories, good ones at that! See I did not lose money I gained memories that will last a short life time.

Thanks

Gordy Powers

[sevenmmm]

Good stuff Gordy.

The few who do not like tournaments are vocal and may discourage a few, but by and large it really will only ever be a debate if all that is tournaments treat everyone else living around these fishing destinations well.

And as far as LBDN, it truly is a beautiful area with the opportunity to catch huge walleyes!

And Sunshine, there are some nice people too...;-)

[JIGMEISTER]

Your just as guilty as everyone else, but trying to glorify it! Hmmm....

[bay de noc regular]

These threads made for interesting reading, but the facts speak for themselves. The walleye population on the Bays de noc is severely depleted! I have found that I have to go a little further south, eachn year, in order to catch decent fish. Oh, now and then you will have a nice catch, but tournament fish always come from adjacent waters, usually 25 to 35 miles away!

[waterways]

The only reason for this is tournaments? The super clean waters from zebra mussels has nothing to do with that? Forage is the main reason why walleyes are else where! Walleyes from tournaments are released right into the bay, but they leave because the forage is not there!

Tournaments have nothing to fish populations in Little Bay de Noc.

[justice]

Are you out to persecute the guy? You’re a troll! I don't agree with 90% of what he says but he's entitled to his ridiculous opinion, just like you.

[bay de noc regular]

I am not blaming the lack of fish on the tournaments....I fish them too! I am informing the NTC participants that they will have to travel great distances, in order to compete. An example would be the Bay de noc shoals (this is where the last PWT was won)....a full 35 miles from the Gladstone launch! Big fish..big travel..BIG SEAS!

[JDN]

I fished in a tournament last year at LBDN. I can promise you I did not kill any fish!! I had a heck of a time just collecting my fish out of my livewell. They were just as lively or more so than when they hit my baits. I take great care with my fish up until they are weighed. After that they are in the hands of the folks running the tournament.

I spent about $800 while I was in town and did not keep or kill one walleye. I watched lots of locals in Black bottoms keeping every 15 to 17 inch walleye they caught. That does not bother me either. Good for them. If the Michigan DNR says its ok for fisherman to catch and keep walleyes from LBDN then have at it.

There are a lot better places to plan a vacation for fishing than LBDN in my opinion. If you ask me the tournaments have already inked LBDN to be way better than it really is! Thats what tournaments can do for you, mislead us into thinking LBDN is a really great walleye fishery.

[tmn]

Big Seas is right.

I will have to say that the chop at the mouth of LBDN is the worst I have ever navigated. If you think the western basin of erie can get bad then you have never been in the chop between LBDN and BBDN!

[wiredog]

We don't want you on Mille Lacs or leech or Winne or any other Minnesota lake. Take your tournaments and go away.

[wiredog]

The problem is not just one turny on the lake per year. It is a turny almost every week of the summer.