Tournament Cancer

[Jigman 2004]

Wondering if I need to join a tournament to fish the Winnebago system in 2004? With only 2 or 3 weekends tourney-free on the system, the only species more prevelant than sheepshead will be "tournament-drum".
Looking forward to the clogged boat landings, excessive wakes and smell of money that these events bring to our beloved resource.
Maybe I need a jet-ski?

[hhj]

I would like to thank the tournament fisherman who bring awareness to catch and release, a practice not known to a lot of our local fishermen.
And how about the people of Walleyes For Tomorrow, which consist of a lot of tournament anglers. The walleye population is stronger than it has been in years. Portions of Tournament fishermen's money is put back into the resource through conservation efforts and is showing great results here on the Winnebago System.

hhj

[JIGMEISTER]

>Wondering if I need to join a tournament to fish the
>Winnebago system in 2004? With only 2 or 3 weekends
>tourney-free on the system, the only species more prevelant
>than sheepshead will be "tournament-drum".
>Looking forward to the clogged boat landings, excessive wakes
>and smell of money that these events bring to our beloved
>resource.
>Maybe I need a jet-ski?
Yes its a shame, no one owns the lake therefore anyone can fish it/do whatever they want. Its called recreational sports and everyone is doing it, including me . We all pays our taxes and dues , so why can we not have fun like you and everyone else? Don't get me wrong, I just don't get people thinking that they own Lake Winnebago.Duh, well maybe I would just like to go for a cruise without these pesky little jet ski's and other's with their oversized yachts that try to run you over as if they own something? Get real! Well these tournaments bring money to our cities and help with causes you have no clue on, so please check with your local tournaments if you need more info. we are all here to have fun! No one owns anything , not me ,nor you. Have a great day!

[jerry]

As I page through my online map of Lake Winnebago and the chain, I see no less than 25 launches. Are you trying to tell me you can't find anyplace to launch your boat? You're not looking hard enough.

The other comments covered the rest of your statement. This fishery has never been better and continues to grow due to the work of Walleyes for Tomorrow, the WDNR, and other organizations which include tournament fisherman.

[T-T0dd]

If you call that tourney cancer the the slaughter of spawning females during the run on the Wolf must be an uncurable TUMOR!!!!!!!

[Jigman 2004]

People you miss the point.

The resource that WE ALL share is being preyed upon by groups that have NO interest in the fisheree!
Do you think for a minute that ANY proceed$ from PWT, MWC or RCL go back into the Winnebago system?
The few dollars that you all preach about may come from Otter Street or WFT, but none of the aforementioned groups have done a lick to help our system!
As for the comment about the slaughter of female fish on "the run", we'll see how many PWT "professionals" release, or beat to death in their "live" wells.

[Reality Check]

It always make me wonder when I hear this thing about killing fish while being a tournament angler versus a "recreational" angler. Is the fish a tournamnet angler kills more dead than a fish you kill while "recreating"?

I don't know about WI. and the Winnebago system DNR stats but I DO know that the "tournament cancer" in Minnesota accounts for a VERY small fraction of one percent of the walleye kill/harvest according to Mn. DNR. The rest? Well....

Reality check

[Numbers Nelson]

So for every 100 fish caught in tournaments only 1 die's?? I don't think I trust that number.

[fishhunter619]

I don't think that is what he said, for every 100 fish killed only one was becouse of a tourament fisherman, and I would be willing to bet it's mor like 500 to 1

Larry Manning
#371

[stevefellegy]

I read that "reality check" post as meaning overall harvest for a total season or year on any given body of water, not a per tournament percentage.

An example of general, overall catch and release mortality rates by the everyday angler, based on a recent study on Mille Lacs, is about 6-10 percent depending on time of year. Of course, that figure would grow if those fish were held in someone's livewell and culled later. But not much, according to DNR info I read. I think these figures are in line with overall tournament release figures too. BUT....as in any case, there is the exception to the rule or averages, based on present weather conditions and the fishery itself.

Sadly, I think this dead fish thing is too often put on tournament anglers. My take is that the recreational fishermen, who, for the most part, use all the various info and equipment that has a tournament base, kill and eat many more fish than they would have without the tournaments taking place. Is that bad? No!!! It just means more fishery management to compensate for the general public's ongoing growth, becoming better fishermen. If there is ANY negative, if that is what you want to call it, to having tournaments ongoing, it is the increase in the general public's ability to harvest more fish, based on the constant stream of info and equipment upgrades that are drivin by competitive fishing. Also...remember....that the "pre-competitive" fishing era had ZERO catch and release culture among the recreational fishing public. And another "also" is the wake issue. The percentage of wakes on a body of water, even as a tournament is ongoing, by tournament boats, is quite small compared to waves NATURALLY produced by the rest of the angling public. No!...I'm NOT saying or defending a tournament boat for making a wake in the wrong place at the wrong time should NOT be frowned on. I'm just saying that it does happen MORE often, by just sheer numbers, by the recreational angling public. Just trying to level the "negative" playing field.....


So...there are two sides to the discussion. Both should be on the table with hopes that facts and not politics or mis-perceptions, drive regulations. I think many more positives than negatives come, for a fact, from tournament fishing. At least that what's my balance beam shows when it's all put to a "weight" test. One more thing on this worry about too many tournaments.... With the exception of the top level events such as RCL/PWT/MWC,(which only happen one week per year/per fishery, on a total of less than 20 lakes nationwide) this tournament pressure is by a fishing public that is VERY localized and would be fishing anyway. Look at the entry addresses....

Good healthy discussion!

[oops my bad]

Sorry Steve, I reread the 1% post and now I understand what he meant. I thought he meant a 1% mortality rate in tournament fish caught. Sorry.

[rangerstorm]

Jigman 2004--all of the afore mentioned groups have in fact contributed a great amount of money and information to the DNR and Walleye for Tomorrow.Money has been donated to WFT and Wildlife Forever,which in turn gets put towards helping the DNR,study the sauger,reefs on Winnebago and the Bay of Green Bay which people really love to condone Tourney's on those waters,if they cancel the tourney's will they take the reefs and developments that tourney money built back out,no these things are there fore ever and for everyone to use.You and anyone that wants to can fish any of these waters and that is why IMPROVED PRODUCTIVITY is Walleye for Tomorrows motto. The DNR is at tourney's taking info from the fish caught and the tourney held at Spring Valley Illinois in fact puts more fish back into that system than you or anyone else can ever catch in a lifetime.The fish caught in Spring Valley are well cared for,transported to DNR hatcheries and raised to fry and returned to the system.Can you find anything bad about that.Tournament fishing has been around for a long time and will be around for a long time,it is a way of life for some people.I need to ask you this question.Are you a member of Walleye for Tomorrow?

[bigfish1965]

If the figures given by the original post are correct, I can see his concern. I wouldn't care how much money a tourney brings to the area if it meant I had to deal with that many boats every weekend. I haven't been on the lake in question and it may be that the additional traffic is inconsequential, but really there ought to be limits placed on tournies.
Not everyone on the lake owns a business, in fact most wouldn't. So the economical argument is pointless to many. People live on a lake for a certain lifestyle. If that lifestyle in interferred with on every weekend but 2 or 3, then it will become an issue.
There are a hundred thousand lakes in North America.No need to beat up the same ones all the time.
I love the argument 'someone else would have caught the fish anyway'..thats priceless.

[stevefellegy]

The lake/river system in question is over 150,000 sq. acres, which includes a lake that is about 27 miles long by 12 miles wide. The majority of the fishing is done in the open water, with countless miles of rocky areas that get trolled or anchored on as well. The river system is made up of three additional lakes and includes 20 or more miles of river channel to fish. 50-150 tournament boats can hardly overwhelm this system on the water or at the boat ramps.

[sevenmmm]

>If the figures given by the original post are correct, I can
>see his concern. I wouldn't care how much money a tourney
>brings to the area if it meant I had to deal with that many
>boats every weekend. I haven't been on the lake in question
>and it may be that the additional traffic is inconsequential,
>but really there ought to be limits placed on tournies.
>Not everyone on the lake owns a business, in fact most
>wouldn't. So the economical argument is pointless to many.
>People live on a lake for a certain lifestyle. If that
>lifestyle in interferred with on every weekend but 2 or 3,
>then it will become an issue.
>There are a hundred thousand lakes in North America.No need to
>beat up the same ones all the time.
>I love the argument 'someone else would have caught the fish
>anyway'..thats priceless.


Knowing the hard effort - including the time and money spent by tournament anglers - it is very difficult for the tournament contestants to admit there may be people who do not like this practice.

But let me side with the originator of this post and bigfish. If we haven't already reached a saturation point of too many boats on the water, we will very soon.

The contributions tournaments have to the local economy are obvious. But just for a real 'reality' check; let me remind you there are no white and yellow lines painted over the surface of the water. No stop lights. No road signs. No parking stalls. No boater licensing requirements. No speed limits. No horsepower limits. None! Now do any of you really think there isn't a safety issue here?

It is not much of a leap to blame tournaments for the growth of more and bigger boats on the water. And mixing this with all the jet skiers, pleasure boaters, and the like, tournaments and their participants will be lumped into the general category of those prohibiting the common fisherman - out in a small boat - hoping to catch his family a meal of fresh fish.

[WInnebago]

Prohibiting? Even with 300 tournament boats out there, there is an expanse of water that holds fish where there are no boats, or very few. This isn't a 2500 acre system, it is absolutely huge! Many landings, and lots of fishing spots.

Unless the boats are marked with a logo from the event, it can be tough on any given day to tell who is a tourney angler and who is not. The SYSTEM and weather dictate what is a safe sized boat out there, not any tournament.

Recreational boaters are there in numbers too, if the weather is nice. If you want a TRUE experience with crowded conditions, try fishing a walleye tournament on the Fox Chain in Illinois on a warm Saturday.

The tendency is to speak in absolutes and look to the far left or right on the issue. Reality is usually somewhere in between, which applies nicely in this case.

[sevenmmm]

Not 'prohibiting' in the sense of gated launches. But more in a sense of noisy motors disturbing the peace and making big wakes to rock these small boats, making it difficult for these people to have a quiet fishing day on the water.

Do you like the word better now, or should I change it to "disturbing"?

[Winnebago]

The word is what it is, 'sense' or not. 'Wakes and noise'honors go to the cigarette boats and the big cruisers on 'Bago, not even a challenge.

BTW--A small fishing boat can make a big wake, and a big fishing boat a small wake. Depends on the driver.

What you are talking about is courtesy and giving each boat on the water their 'space'. There is LOTS of space on 'Bago. And, lots of courtesy, most times.

[Arnie]

Man, are you off base. Until this year the MWC hasn't had a tournament on Winnebago for a long time. When they did have tournaments there, they donated money from every entry fee to the fishery. There's even a reef on the lake named after the MWC honoring them for their conservation donations. Check it out with Walleyes for Tomorrow. You just sound like a sour grapes guy---my lake and my fish.

[bigfish1965]

Let's not forget to put ourselves in the postion of the homeowners. For larger lakes there's no real additonal traffic created by a tourney, but for the mid-size and smaller lakes, lets try and be somewhat sympathetic.
If you owned your retirement home on one of these lakes and you looked forward to summer to relax and fish, try and imagine how you'd feel with 7:00 am shot-gun starts and 200HP motors buzzing up and down the lake all day.
You wouldn't give a rats patootie what the tournies gave back, nor would you care about how much cash they dropped while in town.All you'd know is that nearly every dang weekend you can't enjoy your home like normal. Now if we had lear jet races over your neighbourhood at 7 AM you'd probably get steamed and wouldn't care how much jet fuel they bought from the local airport.
It's not their lake, but if the local residents (tax payers and voters) in favour of us get outnumbered by those against, we'll soon be out of places to go.Municipalities can shut us out real fast.
A little empathy goes a long way.

[Farmer Fred]

I allays liked my acres ta be SQUARE, too Steve. :)

[Little Jim]

Big Fish
Get Real. Just because you buy a lot on the shore of a lake you still do not own the lake... The lake is still Public (open to the enjoyment of all)With more and more people fishing and enjoying recreational areas,when you buy a home close to this you better expect it.
Little Jim

[bigfish1965]

Jim;
Don't forget that the guys who own the shore pay the property taxes. It wouldn't take much for them to lean on town council to put some kind of limits on tournies. It's already happening.
If I own the shore, I don't own the water, but I pay for the roads to get there.

[sevenmmm]

Bigfish, these young self-important jacks just need a little coaching is all. These guys should realize they may have the privilege of fishing public waters - on their own. But when we speak of tournaments, we are talking of an organization who is using the public domain in an effort to make money.

As such, these organizations are subject to the whims of the general public.

So, if these young guns continue to pound their finger in the chests of the general fishing public, fishing guides, pleasure boaters, and property owners, in an attempt to imtimidate these users, more than just their fingers will be smashed by the strong arm of public opinion.

At some point it is a hope to think these young'uns will take a cue from you and others and change their tactics to putting their arms around the complainers and with a soft smoozing voice get to understand these concerns.

[Winnebago]

I am not young, nor am I pounding my fingers.

You are what, a couple years into this game?

The general public fish these waters at the pleasure of the Department of Natural Resources and pay to do so, just like you. And the general public are tourney anglers too. They are guides. They are marina owners, bait shop owners, factory workers at Mercury Marine, visitors at resorts (OH MY GAWSH, those resort owners are making money from the resource, bringing in the folks from out of the area, and encouraging them to catch the walleyes) property owners who work in the area, folks from Milwaukee, up North, and from other states.They are attendees at Walleye Weekend, the largest festival of it's kind anywhere. They live and work in an area that wouldn't be what it is if there weren't dollars created by that big old lake. Thank the DNR for their hard work, Walleye's For Tomorrow for their vision, Mercury Marine for the local manufacturing economy, (gee, they promote their support of competitive angling pretty strongly, as does Bombardier, yes?) BIG PICTURE, RL. Lake Winnebago and most other lakes in the state are a commercial enterprize from the word go.Is it fair that lakeside property is taxed so much higher than off the water? Is it fair that fishing is NOT a right, it is a privelege? AND, I have to pay for the privelege? Sure it is. Get over it, all of it. You might as well denounce the Pioneer Inn for it's Marina, they actually CHARGE folks to have boats in a slip on that public water that are BIG, and disturb the peaceful contemplation of the angler in his little boat!!

[Hangman]

Good post Winnebago. You make some great points.

[Steve Fellegy]

VERY,VERY well said. The real world....oh my.

Thank you!

Now let's end this forever ongoing concern/discussion. We ALL need to be on the same page....we ALL come from the same mold in the end, when it comes to the public resources.
Steve Fellegy
#49

[sevenmmm]

Winnebago

Sure, it's all an enterprize. But you can not take away the fact there are those who do not like the practice of tournament fishing and work to restrict and/or end its practice.

Winnebago, you can hollar 'til the cows come home about the "rest" of those who use these waters and it will not change this. Matter of fact, it is my contention that strongly worded arguments towards those who oppose your thinking will only tend to incite these folks to furthur action.

And it does not matter how long anyone has been "in this game" either. Because I point out and want to sympathize with what you perceive to be an enemy, does not disqualify me from having this opinion.

Your post does nothing to change this.

[bigfish1965]

Your statement that it wouldn't be what it was if it weren't for the tournaments speaks volumes. It is precisely this arrogance that has started a groundswell of opposition to tourneys up here. They've now formed a committee to oversee tournaments and tourney anglers in Canada and we can thank the people who believe that since they have money, they spend money, they can do as they please.
The fact is a lodge owner has one vote. A completely annoyed community has many more.
Never in your posts did you try and empathize with the land owner from the original post. Never did you ask him what specifically he didn't like so that maybe we can find some kind of compromise.
Municipal governments can and will shut down the tourney train if the residents feel too put upon. Like it or not, it is their community. We are guests, not great benefactors.Stop waving your wallet around as if it can hypnotise the locals.
In the vast majority of towns, the tourneys are welcome. But in the ones that don't like them, diplomacy is the only course.
Most Canadian lakeside communities are either weekend residences or affluent retirees. They don't need our money. They already have lots.They prefer the peace and quiet.

[Winnebago]

Bigfish,
If you are responding to me, I have a couple points.
1) I can't find this anywhere in my post: ( Your statement that it wouldn't be what it was if it weren't for the tournaments speaks volumes) So, I would guess that I am not arrogant, since I never said that. What do you think?
2)I also was not speaking about Canada. I was addressing this area and the many tournaments here, as that was the original question.
3) I never suggested that diplomacy was NOT critical. However, diplomacy in any debate demands that both sides not rely on hypocritical viewpoints or the argument is just noise. Does the water belong to the property owners? No, it belongs to us all here in the US, and as long as that fact remains, there will be arguments about use. Most States already require permitting of tournaments, that is a good thing. Our fisheries biologists have alot to say, also.
4) Many property owners on the lakes here are NOT rich folks who are living on the lake for the quiet and solditude. Many are blue collar working class folks, and believe it or not, many fish tournaments. It would seem even property owners can disagree amongst themselves on usage. I REALLY deplore the use of jet skis, as thay are IMHO horribly noisy, polluting machines that NEVER are shut off while on the water. I, however, do recognize their priveleged use of the waterways, just as they must recognize mine.
5)As use increases from all sources, more regulation is inevitable. Disagreements are not. My points, had you recognized them, were designed to ask you to see that a very large section of the local economy runs smoothly on the dollars Lake Winnebago generates. Is it not hypocritical to single out one, and only one enterprise?
6) To use 'making money' as an argument against tournaments must then add resort owners, marina owners, boat dealerships, hotels, motels, the Chamber of Commerce, restaraunts, guides, powerboat associations, snowmobile clubs, etc. to that list. Will laws be passed to severly restrict only one group without restircting the others? I would hope that the principles of democracy here in the US would not allow that to happen.
7) A single marina can field as many as 150 huge powerboats on ANY one day on Winnebago, and those guys don't shut their engines off much. They DO buy lots of gas, though! The folks who have their 26' to 50' cruisers there may not be property owners either. That marina makes money every single day off the public waters; how is one to address that issue? Mille Lacs, another huge lake in Minnesota, has numbers of huge launches that take tourists out to catch walleyes, and dozens and dozens of guides doing the same thing every day. Direct money into the pocket of the guide or launch owner, added traffic, noise, big boats in the way of the locals ripping the fish, it just never ends.... And those fish have ZERO chance of survival, as they are filleted. we won't even address the massive ice house cities, rentals, etc catering to folks who live elsewhere all winter long.

Alright, I hope I clarified my argument. I do not disagree that there are folks who do not like tournaments. I have no problem with those folks at all, they have every right to their opinions. So do those who enjoy or support tournaments. We are not 'enemies', we are simply people who live in the same country and obey the same laws. If a law needs be changed, then our process of law will see to that.

RL,
Please note that my 'strongly worded argument' was not with the opposition to competitive angling. It was with your comments, and still is. Since you fish tournaments, I assume you support them, but are sympathetic to those who oppose them. I will step out on a limb a bit here and even contend that post number 3220 BEGGED strong response due to a somewhat condescending disconnect from reality there.

Sympathy towards a stance or platform does not make that stance ot platform righteous.

Those who oppose competitive angling have every right to do so. The arguments they might use will be debated by those who support competitive angling, and the wheel will continue to turn.

[sevenmmm]

Sorry you feel I have a "condescending disconnect from reality". This still does not change the fact tournament angling needs to be restricted and the anglers who fish them policed.

There are too many tournaments on the Winnebago chain and most of the users can recognize when a tournament, or sometimes the many tournaments, is in play, by the amount of large fishing boats noisily making there way acrossed the waters in all directions.

That is not to say there are a few far corners of Winnebago that are peaceful, but by and large the publicly know spots that normally hold fish is imandated with these tournament contestants, and this is leaving a bad tatse in the mouths of the pleasure anglers.

No doubt you do not like these words, but they are fact.

I wonder something of you Winnebago. Are you one who has alot to gain by furthur growth of tournaments?

[Wondering]

RL you would have a little more credibility if you wouldn't fish tournaments yourself. You want them policed but you want to fish them. You need to practice what you preach or sit down and be quiet for awhile.

[Ongoing]

If you haven't noticed, he does this constantly. He loves to get the pot stirring. Some people get a high off that.

If he experienced any financial gain from tournaments maybe his thoughts would be skewed a different way. He doesn't and probably won't.

So, his credibility is shot because for 1. He fishes tournaments and 2. He creates debate in any topic, not just this one.

[Wondering]

Yeah I noticed. I think he is going for the world record in posts, like a couple of others on here. They just have to answer every post whether they even know anything about that subject or not.

[sevenmmm]

Pffft.

Silly people! You just can't get your mind beyond the simple. Do you really think that tournament anglers will enjoy a lake with a 1000 contestants on it in the same time frame?

If you don't think that number has any reality to it, just add the growth over the last 10 years then project it to the future. You will find it quite possible for this to be reality, soon.

I know its difficult for the black and white minded to think I fish tournaments (and very much enjoy it) and also side with those who aggree to restrict it's growth - especially on Winnebago during June weekends.

But you'll just have to get use to the idea because I will not back down from your bullying tactics. So either get over it, or give me some solid reasoning as to why you think the system can continue to host ever more tournaments.

Just consider answering this question: is it really to much to ask to place a rule restricting summer weekend tournaments, in total, to say, 500 boats?

[Winnebago]

Bet you don't know what competitive angling restrictions are in place on Winnebago right now, do you, RL? And no, I don't stand to gain a cent if tournaments are expanded, nor will I lose a cent if they are restricted more than they already are. And, you WERE condecending, actually a bit rude, and definitely disconnected from reality with the 3220 content now that I re-read your post. Here, let's refresh, shall we?


(Bigfish, these young self-important jacks just need a little coaching is all. These guys should realize they may have the privilege of fishing public waters - on their own. But when we speak of tournaments, we are talking of an organization who is using the public domain in an effort to make money.

As such, these organizations are subject to the whims of the general public.

So, if these young guns continue to pound their finger in the chests of the general fishing public, fishing guides, pleasure boaters, and property owners, in an attempt to imtimidate these users, more than just their fingers will be smashed by the strong arm of public opinion.

At some point it is a hope to think these young'uns will take a cue from you and others and change their tactics to putting their arms around the complainers and with a soft smoozing voice get to understand these concerns.

Rick Larson)

You continue to dodge the facts and the debate. You insult, insinuate that those who disagree with you are "young self important jacks" and "young guns". Spare me, please. That isn't reasonable debate or discussion, that is drivel. 'Soft smoozing vioce?' What are we to be, Jedi Knights? Melodrama might read well, but will not stand up well in an honest debate of the facts.

We are NOT all that subject to the whims of the general public, thank goodness. We ARE subject to the rules and laws written by those who represent us all. If enough of a majority wants to further restrict events on Winnebago, then it will be so. Try to get these folks away from their TV to show up at a fact gathering meeting. Guides??? Whoa, let's just TRY to set guides against tournament anglers in a public debate. What about the guides who ARE tournament anglers? Double jeopardy, for sure. Bad idea. I think I covered this before.

Well, I think I have made my point.

[sevenmmm]

>Bet you don't know what competitive angling restrictions are
>in place on Winnebago right now, do you, RL? And no, I don't
>stand to gain a cent if tournaments are expanded, nor will I
>lose a cent if they are restricted more than they already are.
>And, you WERE condecending, actually a bit rude, and
>definitely disconnected from reality with the 3220 content now
>that I re-read your post. Here, let's refresh, shall we?
>
>
>
>
>You continue to dodge the facts and the debate. You insult,
>insinuate that those who disagree with you are "young self
>important jacks" and "young guns". Spare me, please. That
>isn't reasonable debate or discussion, that is drivel. 'Soft
>smoozing vioce?' What are we to be, Jedi Knights? Melodrama
>might read well, but will not stand up well in an honest
>debate of the facts.
>
>We are NOT all that subject to the whims of the general
>public, thank goodness. We ARE subject to the rules and laws
>written by those who represent us all. If enough of a majority
>wants to further restrict events on Winnebago, then it will be
>so. Try to get these folks away from their TV to show up at a
>fact gathering meeting. Guides??? Whoa, let's just TRY to set
>guides against tournament anglers in a public debate. What
>about the guides who ARE tournament anglers? Double jeopardy,
>for sure. Bad idea. I think I covered this before.
>
>Well, I think I have made my point.


Well Winnebago, the only point you have made here is some well written verbage that could have been easier summed up by just using a few choice words in your description of my opinion. One that comes to mind is "idiot", or "stupid". Ok, I've been called worse and your entitled to this opinion. So lets move on.

You really are quite good at confusing fact with fiction, so allow me to continue this debate with a bit more of the facts:

There are times when there are to many tournament boats on the Winnebago system, and there needs to be some reasonable restrictions in place.

The terms "young guns" and "self-important jacks" (jacks as pictured in a deck of cards), are good descriptions of a certain type of tournament angler who believes they have MORE right to the water than any of the other users. It is real, I have witnessed this while tournament fishing.

Debating your point from a position of intimidation is never good diplomacy, and the advice of using a "soft smoozing voice" is a rather good tactic in helping to come to a resonable solution.

If the people would rather watch TV than fish - thats their perogative. If one more than 50% of these voters wish to restrict all tournament fishing, then it will happen.

AND, it's my opinion that fishing guides are ALOT less obtrusive than any tournament you can point to. They do not all leave at the same time, they do not group up with the same numbers on spots, they DO provide a very personal and reasonable service to those who use it. AND they work very hard for their money.

I am sorry, most tournament anglers will never reach the level of personal service the average fishing guide provides.

The truth is (ok, I might as well just say it - YOU don't have any idea of the truth), tournaments, and the anglers who participate in them, are on the front lines of those who feel like there are to many boats on the water (by the way, most of the boats on Winnebago are fishing). So they had better be on their best behavior lest the new restrictions on the system are BECAUSE of their behavior.

Now, can you type to these talking points?

And there is something else that really bothers me. Its very bizarre that you have nothing at stake in terms of whether tournaments need these rules, or not, yet you are so willing to type posts that ridicule my opinion. So it is a reasonable conclusion to believe you have something against me personally.

Just what is this?

[Trophy]

Rick, your right on all accounts. For the guy's who claim you to be an antagonist they are a little correct, however the only difference I see between you, and them is you put your name behind what you say. The remark you made about the "all about me" attitude in the competition fisherie's is right on the money. It's the nature of the game from the actual events, to beating somebody out of a sponsorship deal. I do know this much though, some, and I repeat SOME of the competition guys are really jerking the general public the wrong way, and if it continues to fester, you'll see ordinances, and laws passed to restrict, or even eliminate competition events on some popular waters. I am really shocked that on some waters they haven't enacted speed, and horsepower restrictions during certain events due to some guys boating techniques. As for the remark about guides, the difference between that industry, and competitive fishing cannot even begin to be compared from the thought process, community service, or cooperation to fisheries management. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING IN THE SAME BOAT (no pun intended).



Kevin Moses
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