Say Goodbye to LOTW ... Indian Netting Resumes Big Time...

[CiscoeFeeder]

Man was I disappointed on opening weekend on the Ontario side of Lake of the Woods.

There were nets strung out in many of the best walleye spawning areas. We talked to some Indians lifting the nets who were from the NW Angle reserve. They had dozens ... and I mean dozens of big walleye in the 5 - 10 pound range. Many not spawned out.

They said the owner of Bell island Resort in Johnson Passage ... a guy in kenora ... has set up a big fish buying businees that is supplying walleye to markets across NAmerica. They also told me they've been netting all winter and spring and intend to continue all summer.

Apparently most of the reserves are getting back into the commercial netting game.

If that is the case ... and from what we saw it is ... you can say goodbye to a great lake.

[Go_ Fish]

That is depressing. We had a group haul out a plane load of Lakers from our fly-in place. It is amazingly devastating to a fishery.

Go-Fish

[rockpt]

It happened in Lake Nipissing - see below.

MNR calls for limits on First Nation commercial fishery

Gord Young

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:00

Local News - The Ministry of Natural Resources says a dramatic depletion of Lake Nipissing's walleye population is linked to a massive harvest last year by a small number of native commercial fishers.

But Dave Payne, the ministry's district manager, said he could not reveal details of that information or how it was obtained.

"The MNR has a number of ways of collecting information. Some are more obvious than others," he said.

A report presented Wednesday to the Lake Nipissing Stewardship Council says the fishery is again in a stressed condition and requires management action to assure sustainability.

The ministry is calling for limits on the First Nation commercial fishery to be in place this spring and a proposal for a winter slot size will likely be brought forward for public consultation as part the lake's new five-year management plan to be completed by Jan. <http://www.ospreynewsnetwork.com>

<http://www.ospreynewsnetwork.com>1, 2005.

"Basically we're back to where we were in 1998," said ministry biologist Richard Rowe, explaining signs of recovery in the lake's walleye fishery over the past five years have reversed in the matter of a year. "Everything changed in 2003."

The report says the estimated walleye harvest of 10 per cent of commercial fishers increased to 35,028 kilograms last year from an estimated 1,373 kilograms in 2001.

"This dramatic and unexpected increase caused a total harvest increase to 101,000 kilograms, which exceeds sustainability and explains adult walleye depletion observed in 2003," states the report.

'This can't happen again'

Rowe said total walleye harvest should never exceed 92,000 kilograms a year and just approaching that number could jeopardize the fishery.

"The commercial fishery has to be managed . . . This can't happen again," he said, suggesting another such harvest would put the fishery on the verge of collapse.

Rowe said about 90 per cent of commercial fishers report their harvests. He said the ministry gathered information on the remaining 10 per cent, which accounts for the depletion in population marked by its latest assessment of the fishery.

Payne said the ministry plans to bring forward a management proposal to Nipissing First Nation within four weeks in an effort to reach an agreement before spring.

He said a series of meetings has been held and that the chief and council are willing to work toward a co-operative solution.

The ministry and Nipissing First Nation have been discussing regulations for the commercial fishery for about a decade, but Payne said there is now an urgency both sides recognize.

Scott McLeod, a Nipissing First Nation councillor, said the native community isn't interested in scrutinizing the ministry's numbers and is more concerned about data which shows a decline in the walleye population and a sharp increase in adult mortality. He said Nipissing First Nation has been developing its own plan to manage the fishery and wants to reach an agreement with the ministry.

McLeod said the community has seen an increase in pressure on the commercial fishery, attributed to the economy and a shortage of jobs.

For more on this story, plus sidebars with reaction from Nipissing First Nation Chief Phil Goulais, see Thursday's exclusive coverage in The Nugget.

[keywest]

best way to stop this is ,people from the states stop goining up to canada fishing , use our resourses , keep the bucks in the usa , the canadian govt. will see the money lost and put a stop to this . the only way to stop it is hurt them in thier pocketbook .intead of goining up there , take a trip to lake erie , lake michigan , and other inland lakes in the usa , or the boundry waters .beleave me , they will stop if they see thier money going south .the camps loose , the stores loose , gas stations loose to name a few , these people will put pressure on the government to stop this . thx. god bless all.

[mr.sunshine]

the nettings never stopped over here. where have you been fishing on lotws you can tell the fish arent bitting people are complaining about the nets. plus almost all of the WALLEYES netted on lotw are shipped to the good old US OFA. so i guess the only way to stop the netting is if you quitt eating them at yoyr local restraunt.lotw is 56 thousand miles of shoreline do you really think there are no walleye left? I hope when you do go to lotw next time you hire a guide ,cause if you cant catch a walleye mabey you should take up lawn darts.

[oldlogin]

Would you mind telling us on what part of the Woods you were fishing and where you saw the neting?

[snaggletooth]

We found a net last August in Sabaskong Bay, right off of the NW side of Hay Island. I snagged it with my crankbait. Had to go unravel my lure from it to get it back. It was blue mesh and about 20 to 50 yards long.

The owner of the resort where we stayed told us we should have sliced it to pieces with our knives. I told him I was not going to get involved in any disputes between residents and natives over netting. On a different evening, we saw boats harvesting fish from the nets.

Funny, we didn't see them harvesting the nets until after dark. They must all have day jobs. ;-)

[Walleye_Slayer]

mr. sunshine

go sit sunny side down enough energy wasted toward your sorry butt


A Bad Day Fishing is Better than the Best Day at Work

Best Reguards
Walleye_Slayer

[alanexpup]

well you know how it is. some people are created more equal than others. when we practice catch and release and all that other good stuff, I guess the question we have to ask is WHO are we really practicing it for? I guess we know the answer now- The commercial fisherman. I guess the canadian government figures they bring more money to canada than the sport fisherman that spend at least $1000 a week times 16 weeks times how many fisherman. It would be interesting to know. maybe the commercial do bring more money!

[rockpt]

After my post above I did some research. As I understand it, the Canadian Supreme Court has held that natives have ancestral treaty rights to fish for "subsistence" but that right is defined more broadly than just catching enough to eat. So, I'm not sure the nets are illegal. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this. Whatever the case, it doesn't do anybody good to overharvest the resource. The economy of NW Ontario is heavily dependent on the sport fisherman. It seems the gov't should do more to control native netting in order to protect the resource and benefit the economy. Also, I understand the MNR and the Nipissing First Nation recently reached an agreement to prevent the overharvest of Lake Nipissing walleye.

[fishnmagicin]

Here it goes again. Living in northern ontario and inbetween 3 major reserves, I see this all the time. There is nothing we can do about this situation. I some cases the police and even the CO's have escorted the native's to their own nets because the locals were pissed and were threatening to harm them. In one case, the indians even had servailence on their nets because of constant damage to them. There is nothing anyone can do except watch. Natives are just going to have to learn how to self govern themselves!!!!!

[Ole Bin Loggin]

Same as American District courts....They "Never gave up their aboriginal rights to fish for subsistence".

From that point, everything beyond has been because of extremely liberal interpretations of the English language.

[cheddy]

That's too bad. It doesnt take long to do major damage to huge fisheries when your taking the breeders. Ask anyone who's fished the southern end of reservoir Cabonga in Quebec. Was spectacular fishing for years Then gill nets show up and within a few years its slim pickins and NO little walleye just a few hogs.

[rebelrn2001]

More likely they just got up after another long night with the fire water.

[alanexpup]

I thought that the canadian government gave the indians their own country up north a bit. why dont they all go up there and net every last fish out of their own lakes if thats what they insist on doing.

[bander6]

I find it interesting that the treaties were drawn up well before halogen lights, plastic nets, motorboats, fish locators, aluminum canoes, GPS's, and everything else they think they should be able to use to "subsist".

[Binder 7]

I find it interesting treaties were misunderstood and misinterpreted for 135 years in the United States (and probably in Canada) UNTIL "The Great Society" (late 60's &early 70's) provided free eager beaver young buck lawyers "jobs" (on the govenment dole) to take up the torch for any and all whom possibly had an axe to grind. All the "re-interpretation" of treaties took place when liberals ruled court systems. I guess the people penning the treaties were illiterate and didn't really understand what they wrote or even what they meant back in the mid 1800's?
The arguement was that the natives did not understand what they agreed to.
Prove it!

[Brett F]

I have been going to LOTW for 15 years. I have saw nets many times over those years. The natives were netting from shore on the banks of the reservation as long as I can remember. We took a trip to the Big Island about 5 years ago and a native had a couple of nets set up, the logde owner said that it was completly legal. I don't think this is that huge of a problem or is anything that is new. The fishing now is alot better than it was 15 years ago an the nets have been going the whole time. Just my thoughts

[alanexpup]

yes I can remember when I was younger than a teeager getting my line caught in a net that when i pulled it up extended for probably 20 yards in both directions and had all kinds of fish stuck in the netting and even at that young age felt badly for all the wasted fish that was rotting in the net because whoever had this net did not have the respect for life that they should have and just left the net there to catch fish and have them die. how many nets are up ther that were never found? Some things never change because a couple of years ago on LOTWs I ran accross a similar net with more fish and they too were rotting in the net. This time I cut that net up as much as possible because whoever had it surely did not deserve anny respect or anything else. in fact I would think that who ever had it should have lost their rights to ever fish like that again. canada better get their act together or they wont have any sportsmen coming up there spending millions of dollors every year. just my 2 cents......

[G.A.Custer]

As usual, the sportsmen practice catch and release and the Indians practice rape and pillage. I say kick their butts and send them packing. We did it once, with a few setbacks, we can do it again.

[Whit]

here's the guy you need to go after>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"They said the owner of Bell island Resort in Johnson Passage ... a guy in kenora ... has set up a big fish buying businees...."

[T-Mac Wannabe]

I am as displeased with the Indian netting issue as everyone else but it appears to me a major player in this specific posting is being overlooked?

The original post indicated... "They said the owner of Bell island Resort in Johnson Passage ... a guy in kenora ... has set up a big fish buying businees that is supplying walleye to markets across NAmerica. They also told me they've been netting all winter and spring and intend to continue all summer."

I'm not sure if this guy is an Indian - doesn't matter - if this is true, we need to focus on him.

Without the Chief, the Indians aren't worth much!

[T-Mac Wannabe]

ttp

Correct, focus on the "Chief"

[rpieske]

Custer:
Your history is as faulty as you tactics. You lost the big battle and you didn't send anyone packing. Rape and pillage were more often suffered by the indians than performed by them. I believe we find an accomodation that benefits the indian and makes it attractive for them to give up their aboriginal rights under treaty. Sustenance netting is allowed by the indians. If their level of sustenance (job availability, etc.) were adequate, they wouldn't have to net fish to support themselves. Lets be honest about this. The indian is not getting rich off this. Education, job opportunity and alternate means of supporting themselves might make them more ready to negotiate the netting issue. We don't need to bash the indians or any other minority who are operating fully within the law. If the story about the owner of Bell Island Resort is true, he is cutting off his own future means of supporting himself and his family by expediting the netting.

[Canadian Guy]

There's nothing you can do. It's their right. I'd be real carefull fooling with their rigs. Lots of those boys carry rifles in their boats. More than one fisherman has been shown the business end of an Enfield while he's been "doing the right thing" cutting up the guys rig. As far as I know no ones been shot but it could happen. Report it to OMNR and call it a day.

[Canadian Guy]

Excellant post rpieske. The Natives netting out in the Bush are not city Indians waiting for a handout. These boys are doing what they have to do to get by. Theye are aware of their rights and will stand up to you. Mr Custer would get another good beating with that attitude and I think I would want to give those boys a hand if if they wanted it. They probably wouldn't need it. I work with a number of Native Canadians and they are excellant people. The rebuilding of opportunity for these good people is working but it will take more generations of understanding and commitment.

[Custer]

Some of you guys need to lighten up.

But my feelings for the Indians (I consider anyone born in America a Native American, that's why I always check the Native American box anyplace they ask) are obviously different from yours. I believe they should have equal rights, not special rights. They demand all of the benefits of "civilization", but also demand and get special consideration on too many issues.

The rape and pillage comment concerns their actions towards the natural resources today, not history. Their opportunistic pillaging of the environment and the natural resources is the main thrust of my comment.

Like I said, sport fishermen are much more concerned with the environment than the netters. When the fish stocks are depleted on LOTW, they'll move on to another body of water where the sportsmen have worked for years to increase the fishery. If you think this is fair and just, good for you. I know its legal. That doesn't make it right.

I find it curious that when a "non-native" kills a 10 lb. walleye to eat that so many of you are ready to lynch them but if an Indian kills 1,000 10lb. walleye, you feel sorry for them and run to defend them. Maybe in your world this makes sense, not in mine. They can take tens of thousands of fish of any species, anytime of year, any size and this is OK, but if I take one out of the slot, you're ready to take my boat, rods, money, etc. Yeah, this makes sense.

[fishanytime]

Sustenance is one thing, dozens of five to ten lb walleyes in nets over a short peroid of time is another issue if this is repeated year around.
I let every big walleye go, why aren't their some standards for netting.
Laws are changed all the time to respomd to a changing environment.