Got pinched on Lake Minnitaki

[5 Stroke]

Just wanna let everybody know to "read the rules"! Was fishing on Lake Minnitaki earlier this week and got pinched by the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources for having LIVE fish in possession (3 walleyes and a northern). No problems with possession or size, just the fact that they were alive. It's an obscure rule which I think applies to Lac Seul along with a few other bodies of water. Once you decide to keep a fish---KILL IT. You will receive no warning, at least we didn't. $50 fine for the infraction and an extra $50 for EVERY fish !! My understanding is that the only live fish you can have is baitfish. And to think that I went out of my way to do a "good deed" and pick up an old propane tank laying on shore. Kharma must be dead.
By the way, they let us keep the fish which I don't understand either. Most expensive meal I've ever eaten. Anybody know a good wine to go with fresh walleye?

5 Stroke

[Terry IA]

how was fishing on the lake how is the water level this year? we fish it in july. great lake for eyes...Terry Iowa

[NWO Fishing Bum]

This is an excellent regulation which makes sense. Obviously, if you are taking the fish home or eating them, they will ultimately be killed anyway. There is no reason to keep live fish in your posession, NONE. Of course they let you keep the fish. As you said, there is nothing wrong with having the fish, just that they were alive. To take them would be a waste. This is exactly why the MNR is out there, to prevent such wasteful actions. They wouldn't take them and release them either, as that is the reason why the rule exists in the first place!! Bottom line, you just got caught in a situation where you didn't know the rules. If you're going to fish, just like anything else, you have to know the rules.

[Ericp45694]

Lighten up

[Beergut]

I agree and you are absolutely correct. The socialists have proven the need for absolute adherence to rules as well as the need for rules governing every living process. Stiff punishment is the only deterence to any kind of rule breaking. No rule is minor!
There is simply no possible reason for breaking any rule. Ever!

Sieg Hiel!

[Bor]

Every trip I go on, I make a habit of asking the bait shop, and the resort owner if I should be aware of any regulation that the DNR (#### Near Russia) my nail us with. The only thing I violate is beer in the boat. Beer and fishing go hand in hand. No drinking beer in Ontario while fishing is about the dumbest rule I have ever heard of. If they put me in charge for a day, I would change the spelling of Fishing to include beer in it. It would be something like "Fishbeering" or "Beerfishing" or "FishAleing". That way it could never be outlawed.

I am sure that people cull half-dead fish because they caught a bigger fish later in the day, so I think this kill all fish rule is a good one. I am suprised that you were not told by your resort owner that there was this rule. A few years ago I went to Lac Seul and the the first thing to I was told by the owner was that you do not have a live-well on Lac Seul. You have a DEAD-WELL that is to be filled with ice, not water.

[retire55]

Let me get this straight. You went to a different country to fish but didn't bother to check out the fishing regulations there (even though the regulations are available on line). You got caught breaking a fishing regulation and you got fined. And you're whining about it? Get over it!

[retire55]

Let me get this straight. You went to a different country to fish but didn't bother to check out the fishing regulations there (even though the regulations are available on line). You got caught breaking a fishing regulation and you got fined. And you're whining about it? Get over it!

[5 Stroke]

Retire55,
Where did you get the impression I was whining???? I admitted that I didn't read (and broke) the rules, and was just "spreading the word" so that everybody is aware! Am I guilty? HECK YES!!!! Did I acccept the punishment? HECK YES!!!! Did you take the post as an informative tool? HECK NO!!! People like you and your attitude are a pimple on the #### of society with your sour attitude. There, I feel better-childish but better. On a serious note read the entire post again---I admitted I was guilty, and tried to make light of it with me "wine joke". Lighten up. I hope somebody learned from my mistake!!!
As far as for keeping the fish alive--I normally throw fish on ice when I have easy access to ice so they don't spoil----we had no access to ice, and I wasn't gonna drive 40 minutes to get ice. Granted it wasn't warm enough for the fish to spoil, but I didn't want them to sit in the water dead. Keeping then alive made more sense.
For what it is worth fishing was O.K.--backtrolling spinners/worms up shallow was best, always caught enough fish for lunch. We fished the standard spots---"the chute", "redpine bay", Minnekau Creek (sp?), Southwest bay. Released a pair of 36-inch northerns caught jigging for walleyes. Just had a great time hanging with the guys. Oh yeah----the lake was definitely UP!!!! Probably 3-4 feet higher than last year. Good luck in July !!!!!
5 Stroke

[5 Stroke]

Retire55,
Where did you get the impression I was whining???? I admitted that I didn't read (and broke) the rules, and was just "spreading the word" so that everybody is aware! Am I guilty? HECK YES!!!! Did I acccept the punishment? HECK YES!!!! Did you take the post as an informative tool? HECK NO!!! People like you and your attitude are a pimple on the #### of society with your sour attitude. There, I feel better-childish but better. On a serious note read the entire post again---I admitted I was guilty, and tried to make light of it with me "wine joke". Lighten up. I hope somebody learned from my mistake!!!
As far as for keeping the fish alive--I normally throw fish on ice when I have easy access to ice so they don't spoil----we had no access to ice, and I wasn't gonna drive 40 minutes to get ice. Granted it wasn't warm enough for the fish to spoil, but I didn't want them to sit in the water dead. Keeping then alive made more sense.
For what it is worth fishing was O.K.--backtrolling spinners/worms up shallow was best, always caught enough fish for lunch. We fished the standard spots---"the chute", "redpine bay", Minnekau Creek (sp?), Southwest bay. Released a pair of 36-inch northerns caught jigging for walleyes. Just had a great time hanging with the guys. Oh yeah----the lake was definitely UP!!!! Probably 3-4 feet higher than last year. Good luck in July !!!!!
5 Stroke

[retire55]

It wasn't so difficult to discern some degree of whining from "It's an obscure rule", "You will receive no warning", "And to think that I went out of my way to do a "good deed" and pick up an old propane tank laying on shore. Kharma must be dead." I would also contend that the vast majority of fishermen who fish in different countries view understanding the fishing regulations as prerequisite to their trips. Your experience reconfirmed the old adage "failure to plan is a plan for failure". Of course, you could have been luckier and not met up a Conservation Officer. But then again, you wouldn't have learned from your mistake.

[retire55]

It wasn't so difficult to discern some degree of whining from "It's an obscure rule", "You will receive no warning", "And to think that I went out of my way to do a "good deed" and pick up an old propane tank laying on shore. Kharma must be dead." I would also contend that the vast majority of fishermen who fish in different countries view understanding the fishing regulations as prerequisite to their trips. Your experience reconfirmed the old adage "failure to plan is a plan for failure". Of course, you could have been luckier and not met up a Conservation Officer. But then again, you wouldn't have learned from your mistake.

[roughrider]

Will someone set me straight,I just went thru the regs. booklet and unless this is a reg on that area,I'd like someone to point out what page number that rule about livewells with live fish in them is against the regs.I see nothing about deadwells!

[roughrider]

Will someone set me straight,I just went thru the regs. booklet and unless this is a reg on that area,I'd like someone to point out what page number that rule about livewells with live fish in them is against the regs.I see nothing about deadwells!

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]Minnitaki lake= page 86 right colum "No person shall posess any live fish taken by angling other than bait fish."
Lac Seul is on page 84, says the same thing. There are probably others too, You have to check where you intend to fish.

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]Minnitaki lake= page 86 right colum "No person shall posess any live fish taken by angling other than bait fish."
Lac Seul is on page 84, says the same thing. There are probably others too, You have to check where you intend to fish.

[roughrider]

Thanks for clearing that up,I fish Bay of Quinte.

[roughrider]

Thanks for clearing that up,I fish Bay of Quinte.

[Lizard King]

5 Stroke, every time you make a horse's ### of yourself out on the water, let us know. Maybe your shortcomings will help you and many others pay a little more attention to the fine lines. It's not like you had 20 fish over the limit or used electric shock. You made a mistake and paid the toll. "You will recieve no warning..." - obviously valuable info and a good heads up. "Kharma must be dead" - simply a joke. Some folks turn into the Almighty himself when they get behind the keyboard. If I myself was mistake free, I'd be doing something better with my life than blasting a guy. I wonder how many valuable insights, warnings, and actual experience accounts are never posted because guys are afraid some fool will get on here and rip them to shreads like they upset the entire ecosystem. Please keep on posting and picking up trash along the waters you travel.

[Lizard King]

5 Stroke, every time you make a horse's ### of yourself out on the water, let us know. Maybe your shortcomings will help you and many others pay a little more attention to the fine lines. It's not like you had 20 fish over the limit or used electric shock. You made a mistake and paid the toll. "You will recieve no warning..." - obviously valuable info and a good heads up. "Kharma must be dead" - simply a joke. Some folks turn into the Almighty himself when they get behind the keyboard. If I myself was mistake free, I'd be doing something better with my life than blasting a guy. I wonder how many valuable insights, warnings, and actual experience accounts are never posted because guys are afraid some fool will get on here and rip them to shreads like they upset the entire ecosystem. Please keep on posting and picking up trash along the waters you travel.

[Bill Ludwig]

I am not at all sure what is to be gained by killing the fish you put in the box. If you are going to swap out a bigger fish for one previously caught, i would rather they release a live one back than a dead one. Not that I would do this but you can be assured that some people do. My 2 cents worth.

[Bill Ludwig]

I am not at all sure what is to be gained by killing the fish you put in the box. If you are going to swap out a bigger fish for one previously caught, i would rather they release a live one back than a dead one. Not that I would do this but you can be assured that some people do. My 2 cents worth.

[ericp45694]

here here!

[ericp45694]

here here!

[roughrider]

There are a lot of times where I had a single fish in the well and instead of cleaning a single fish at the end of a day,I put him back.

[roughrider]

There are a lot of times where I had a single fish in the well and instead of cleaning a single fish at the end of a day,I put him back.

[alanexpup]

Then what is the reason for LIVE WELLS? Why are they in almost every boat??

[alanexpup]

Then what is the reason for LIVE WELLS? Why are they in almost every boat??

[alanexpup]

If people want they will throw the dead fish back in the water for a bigger one just as fast as they would throw live one back. or have it for a shore lunch.

[5 Stroke]

Lizard King, It was a previous post on S-hooks that led me to upgrade my trailer hook-up and I was just passing the favor along. Don't worry---my enthusiasm to post is not diminished by some of the previous comments posted. Just makes me happy that I am not those people nor do I think like them. I consider myself blessed with friends and family because of my positive, enthusiastic outlook on life. Yes, I can see some people not sharing their "experiences" for the benefit of others after some of the comments contained in this thread. I prefer to concentrate on those that posted a supportive response. My goal was to help make people aware, and I think that we accomplished that!! Anybody seen a garbage can anywhere?
5 Stroke

[5 Stroke]

Lizard King, It was a previous post on S-hooks that led me to upgrade my trailer hook-up and I was just passing the favor along. Don't worry---my enthusiasm to post is not diminished by some of the previous comments posted. Just makes me happy that I am not those people nor do I think like them. I consider myself blessed with friends and family because of my positive, enthusiastic outlook on life. Yes, I can see some people not sharing their "experiences" for the benefit of others after some of the comments contained in this thread. I prefer to concentrate on those that posted a supportive response. My goal was to help make people aware, and I think that we accomplished that!! Anybody seen a garbage can anywhere?
5 Stroke

[Judge]

Now, I have read all of the comments in regards to the message posted by 5-stroke and I myself have come up with an answer to being pinched in Canda. I have read the rules and regulation on Lake Minnitaki and it states you have to kill the fish in Lake Minnitaki as stated above by others who have responded. However, in your haste to slam 5-stroke or stretch your muscles and give the all comment I know everything or you should read the rules. Well look a little closer at the rules people. He caught the fish in Minikua Creek not Lake Minnitaki. Therefore the fish did not have to be killed. It specifically states in other bodies of waters if the creek is part of that same water system. It does not in this case. I e-mailed 5-stroke and got the facts. It was a set up, people. They were waiting at the mouth of the creek to pinch people. Why do you think they put the rule on page 84. It's decieving! If they really wanted people to be aware of this rule, it would also stated in the catch and release column that in some lakes you have to kill the fish you plan to , please check your lake regulations. It should also be posted at all boat launches which it was not. It shouldn't strictly be under live well. Some people strictly use their live well for bait!

[Judge]

Now, I have read all of the comments in regards to the message posted by 5-stroke and I myself have come up with an answer to being pinched in Canda. I have read the rules and regulation on Lake Minnitaki and it states you have to kill the fish in Lake Minnitaki as stated above by others who have responded. However, in your haste to slam 5-stroke or stretch your muscles and give the all comment I know everything or you should read the rules. Well look a little closer at the rules people. He caught the fish in Minikua Creek not Lake Minnitaki. Therefore the fish did not have to be killed. It specifically states in other bodies of waters if the creek is part of that same water system. It does not in this case. I e-mailed 5-stroke and got the facts. It was a set up, people. They were waiting at the mouth of the creek to pinch people. Why do you think they put the rule on page 84. It's decieving! If they really wanted people to be aware of this rule, it would also stated in the catch and release column that in some lakes you have to kill the fish you plan to , please check your lake regulations. It should also be posted at all boat launches which it was not. It shouldn't strictly be under live well. Some people strictly use their live well for bait!

[Bor]

Save you empty milk containers and bring them along on the trip. Fill them and freeze them and they will last all day in you live well.

[Bor]

Save you empty milk containers and bring them along on the trip. Fill them and freeze them and they will last all day in you live well.

[bigfish1965]

THe rules should be posted at boat launches? Seriously? Should they post the Highway Traffic Act at all intersections,too?
It is a good rule. SInce culling isn't allowed in Ontario, an immediate kill helps preotect that rule as well.
Sorry you got pinched,but you took it well. It is a lesson.

[bigfish1965]

THe rules should be posted at boat launches? Seriously? Should they post the Highway Traffic Act at all intersections,too?
It is a good rule. SInce culling isn't allowed in Ontario, an immediate kill helps preotect that rule as well.
Sorry you got pinched,but you took it well. It is a lesson.

[don Scharbarth]

5 stroke and judge, you are both right on as i was in the area when 5 stroke was busted. in fact i was checked by the same wardens and i also had live fish in my livewell. they never asked to see my fish though, only asked to see liscenses and wanted to know if we had alcohol in our cooler. we did have beer in our cooler and it was not confiscated and we received no fine.just warned about it.
the next boat out of the creek also did not have their well checked.
after shore lunch we returned to the creek and met a group from green bay who not only had live fish but also had one in the slot. all the wardens did was make them return the slot fish and kill the others. no fine was issued! shouldn't a live slot fish be a biggeer mistake then having a live legal fish? this is the kind of stuff that gives wardens every where a bad name.(i am not anti warden as my brother is a warden in wisconsin)

[don Scharbarth]

5 stroke and judge, you are both right on as i was in the area when 5 stroke was busted. in fact i was checked by the same wardens and i also had live fish in my livewell. they never asked to see my fish though, only asked to see liscenses and wanted to know if we had alcohol in our cooler. we did have beer in our cooler and it was not confiscated and we received no fine.just warned about it.
the next boat out of the creek also did not have their well checked.
after shore lunch we returned to the creek and met a group from green bay who not only had live fish but also had one in the slot. all the wardens did was make them return the slot fish and kill the others. no fine was issued! shouldn't a live slot fish be a biggeer mistake then having a live legal fish? this is the kind of stuff that gives wardens every where a bad name.(i am not anti warden as my brother is a warden in wisconsin)

[bigfish1965]

Sometimes you get a ticket when speeding, sometimes you get a warning...

[bigfish1965]

Sometimes you get a ticket when speeding, sometimes you get a warning...

[Tax man]

Lets face it, its about revenue, not sepcies protection. Dozens of minor changes in the laws on the thousands of lakes makes for a good ticket writing season on fishermen.

If as they claim these laws are there to protect the resources, why are there different licenses? For about $15-$20 additional license fee, you can harvest more fish with the change from conservation to the full seasonal license. Haven't read the weekly license laws changes but if you can take more fish with a different license, why not just offer a culling license? That way you don't have to throw a dead fish back when you catch a nicer one? You can bet guys are tossing dead fish out to replace them with bigger ones.

And to the "holier than thou" crowd that loves to jump on guys like this (guys that are warning others about following the laws, something the the water cops do when the give warnings instead of tickets) it must be nice to fish without a boat since you obviously can walk on water.

[Tax man]

Lets face it, its about revenue, not sepcies protection. Dozens of minor changes in the laws on the thousands of lakes makes for a good ticket writing season on fishermen.

If as they claim these laws are there to protect the resources, why are there different licenses? For about $15-$20 additional license fee, you can harvest more fish with the change from conservation to the full seasonal license. Haven't read the weekly license laws changes but if you can take more fish with a different license, why not just offer a culling license? That way you don't have to throw a dead fish back when you catch a nicer one? You can bet guys are tossing dead fish out to replace them with bigger ones.

And to the "holier than thou" crowd that loves to jump on guys like this (guys that are warning others about following the laws, something the the water cops do when the give warnings instead of tickets) it must be nice to fish without a boat since you obviously can walk on water.

[JohnAB]

Thanks for the heads up on this as I will be on Lake Minnitaki hopefully the first week of August and sure do not want to do anything illegal as I will be fishing with an Ontario CO. Hate for him to have to ticket me right in the same boat!

[JohnAB]

Thanks for the heads up on this as I will be on Lake Minnitaki hopefully the first week of August and sure do not want to do anything illegal as I will be fishing with an Ontario CO. Hate for him to have to ticket me right in the same boat!

[Judge]

Seeing as you're from Ontario of course you're going to have an Opinion. So, have an intelligent one. I know this message board is suppose to be for reporting fishing reports, but I have to respond to the comment about the traffic laws. All the lakes in Ontario are not protected with the culling law. There are maybe a handful of lakes that are protected. So to say they should post all traffic laws at every intersection is just plain _ _ _ _. People spend a lot of money to come up and fish those lakes. Many of the people don't abuse the privledges before them. However, misunderstandings do happen when inconsistancies exist in your laws per lake. That's why it should be at every boat launch and not hidden on page 84. By the way the fine for each fish is $50.00 and it's $50.00 for getting a citation and of course courts fees of $55.00. So do the math on the fine if you keep your limit of 4. Try $305.00! This is worse than getting pulled over for drunk driving. Let me guess the pupose of this fine is about conservation? I'll think twice about releasing trophies I catch on a dailey basis as long as I know this law exists. I will take advantage of the laws that exist about keeping trophies. Trophies taste great as long as you soke them in milk for awhile. I'll say your fish are safe because of this law.

[Judge]

Seeing as you're from Ontario of course you're going to have an Opinion. So, have an intelligent one. I know this message board is suppose to be for reporting fishing reports, but I have to respond to the comment about the traffic laws. All the lakes in Ontario are not protected with the culling law. There are maybe a handful of lakes that are protected. So to say they should post all traffic laws at every intersection is just plain _ _ _ _. People spend a lot of money to come up and fish those lakes. Many of the people don't abuse the privledges before them. However, misunderstandings do happen when inconsistancies exist in your laws per lake. That's why it should be at every boat launch and not hidden on page 84. By the way the fine for each fish is $50.00 and it's $50.00 for getting a citation and of course courts fees of $55.00. So do the math on the fine if you keep your limit of 4. Try $305.00! This is worse than getting pulled over for drunk driving. Let me guess the pupose of this fine is about conservation? I'll think twice about releasing trophies I catch on a dailey basis as long as I know this law exists. I will take advantage of the laws that exist about keeping trophies. Trophies taste great as long as you soke them in milk for awhile. I'll say your fish are safe because of this law.

[retire55]

Judge:

You ought to practice what you preach (i.e. So, have an intelligent one (opinion)).

With regards to your statement "All the lakes in Ontario are not protected with the culling law", FYI, the following response was received 19 Apr 04 from the Ontario MNR:

"We have received communication back from our Enforcement Branch and the Fish and Wildlife Branch. Culling is illegal in Ontario; catch and retain is when you do not immediately or forthwith release the fish. If you catch a fish and put it in a live well, it has been retained and must be counted towards your daily limit no matter when you decide to kill it. This is outlined on pages 5 (under catch and possession limits) and 9 (last paragraph under "Handling") of the 2004 Summary of the Fishing Regulations. Culling is also illegal in tournament situations. The Enforcement Branch has advised the industry that this is an issue, and they are working with them to try and find a resolution to this concern".

Lastly, the Ontario MNR neither seeks nor requires your approval for their fishing regulations or the enforcement of same. If you find the fishing experience in Ontario as distasteful as your post implies, just stay away.

[retire55]

Judge:

You ought to practice what you preach (i.e. So, have an intelligent one (opinion)).

With regards to your statement "All the lakes in Ontario are not protected with the culling law", FYI, the following response was received 19 Apr 04 from the Ontario MNR:

"We have received communication back from our Enforcement Branch and the Fish and Wildlife Branch. Culling is illegal in Ontario; catch and retain is when you do not immediately or forthwith release the fish. If you catch a fish and put it in a live well, it has been retained and must be counted towards your daily limit no matter when you decide to kill it. This is outlined on pages 5 (under catch and possession limits) and 9 (last paragraph under "Handling") of the 2004 Summary of the Fishing Regulations. Culling is also illegal in tournament situations. The Enforcement Branch has advised the industry that this is an issue, and they are working with them to try and find a resolution to this concern".

Lastly, the Ontario MNR neither seeks nor requires your approval for their fishing regulations or the enforcement of same. If you find the fishing experience in Ontario as distasteful as your post implies, just stay away.

[Wooglin]

Thanks for the heads up, I will be at Lac Seul in less than two weeks, and its always nice to get a friendly reminder....no matter what some people are saying to you (on this thread).

$h1t happens.

[retire55]

Is this "The stove calling the kettle black"? And are your comments (i.e. That way you don't have to throw a dead fish back when you catch a nicer one? You can bet guys are tossing dead fish out to replace them with bigger ones.) indicative of the American sportsman attitude?

[retire55]

Is this "The stove calling the kettle black"? And are your comments (i.e. That way you don't have to throw a dead fish back when you catch a nicer one? You can bet guys are tossing dead fish out to replace them with bigger ones.) indicative of the American sportsman attitude?

[Harold]

Have you ever, EVER, tossed a fish back in the water to keep a better fish? I bet you can't say no.

Also, one bad egg cannot tarnish a whole nation of fisherman. Your question is completely irrelevant.



> Is this "The stove calling the kettle black"? And are your
>comments (i.e. That way you don't have to throw a dead fish
>back when you catch a nicer one? You can bet guys are tossing
>dead fish out to replace them with bigger ones.) indicative of
>the American sportsman attitude?

[Harold]

Have you ever, EVER, tossed a fish back in the water to keep a better fish? I bet you can't say no.

Also, one bad egg cannot tarnish a whole nation of fisherman. Your question is completely irrelevant.



> Is this "The stove calling the kettle black"? And are your
>comments (i.e. That way you don't have to throw a dead fish
>back when you catch a nicer one? You can bet guys are tossing
>dead fish out to replace them with bigger ones.) indicative of
>the American sportsman attitude?

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]
Harold,
You're arguing with one of two canadian users, that seem to have an axe to grind with americans about anything and everything, who post on this site. If you ignore them they go away.

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]
Harold,
You're arguing with one of two canadian users, that seem to have an axe to grind with americans about anything and everything, who post on this site. If you ignore them they go away.

[Beergut]

For those 9 million other places where people fish for recreational enjoyment.

[Beergut]

For those 9 million other places where people fish for recreational enjoyment.

[retire55]

Harold:

To answer your question, quite simply no. In Ontario, when a fisherman catches a fish, he has to decide immediately (say within 30 seconds) whether to release that fish or retain that fish. And once such a fish is retained, it can not legally be unretained in favour of another fish. Although I may not like some of Ontario's Fishing Regulations and I may not understand the rationale underlying some of them, I do attempt to fully comply with all of them.

I didn't ask the question to offend anyone but rather in the hopes of generating a response from more responsible sportsmen. Perhaps it would have been better to comment that I was hopeful that the posters comments were atypical of most American sportsmen.

[retire55]

Harold:

To answer your question, quite simply no. In Ontario, when a fisherman catches a fish, he has to decide immediately (say within 30 seconds) whether to release that fish or retain that fish. And once such a fish is retained, it can not legally be unretained in favour of another fish. Although I may not like some of Ontario's Fishing Regulations and I may not understand the rationale underlying some of them, I do attempt to fully comply with all of them.

I didn't ask the question to offend anyone but rather in the hopes of generating a response from more responsible sportsmen. Perhaps it would have been better to comment that I was hopeful that the posters comments were atypical of most American sportsmen.

[Tax Man]

To answer the obviously prejudiced question/statement put forth by Retire55 that it is an attitude of US fishermen, I'll simply say that I have witnessed irresponsible fishing actions by Canadians as well as Americans. And I believe that these irresponsible anglers from both sides of the border will be more likely to return a dead fish to the water when previously it may have been alive at the time of culling. But I believe that some culling will continue.

Yours is a "typical" Canadian condescending attitute towards the "typical" US fisherman. All Canadians are perfect and all Americans are barbarians, eh?

[Harold]

No offense, but try to remember your previous post when you speed on the HWY - it is illegal, but you do it from time to time.

Don't think I am trying to condone breaking the 'dead fish/live fish' rule, because I am not, but the point I am trying to make, is that it happens. And to point your comments directly to U.S. fisherman is an insult to many, if not most of the Americans on this board.

>Harold:
>
>To answer your question, quite simply no. In Ontario, when a
>fisherman catches a fish, he has to decide immediately (say
>within 30 seconds) whether to release that fish or retain that
>fish. And once such a fish is retained, it can not legally be
>unretained in favour of another fish. Although I may not like
>some of Ontario's Fishing Regulations and I may not understand
>the rationale underlying some of them, I do attempt to fully
>comply with all of them.
>
>I didn't ask the question to offend anyone but rather in the
>hopes of generating a response from more responsible
>sportsmen. Perhaps it would have been better to comment that I
>was hopeful that the posters comments were atypical of most
>American sportsmen.

[Harold]

No offense, but try to remember your previous post when you speed on the HWY - it is illegal, but you do it from time to time.

Don't think I am trying to condone breaking the 'dead fish/live fish' rule, because I am not, but the point I am trying to make, is that it happens. And to point your comments directly to U.S. fisherman is an insult to many, if not most of the Americans on this board.

>Harold:
>
>To answer your question, quite simply no. In Ontario, when a
>fisherman catches a fish, he has to decide immediately (say
>within 30 seconds) whether to release that fish or retain that
>fish. And once such a fish is retained, it can not legally be
>unretained in favour of another fish. Although I may not like
>some of Ontario's Fishing Regulations and I may not understand
>the rationale underlying some of them, I do attempt to fully
>comply with all of them.
>
>I didn't ask the question to offend anyone but rather in the
>hopes of generating a response from more responsible
>sportsmen. Perhaps it would have been better to comment that I
>was hopeful that the posters comments were atypical of most
>American sportsmen.

[retire55]

Taxman:

I don't know if you're reading something between the lines of my posts or if you're just bringing your own preconceived notions about Canadians to the discussion. I have refrained from making accusations in favour of asking questions. I can assure you that I don't think all Canadians are perfect nor do most Canadians believe Americans are barbarians. However, there are times when disrespect for our laws, whether expressed explicitly or implicitly in this forum, should not go unchallenged. I don't view such action as condescending nor is it meant to be. I concur 100 percent with your comments that Canadians are also guilty of irresponsible fishing actions, and no doubt, culling (throwing away dead fish in order to keep another) will unfortunately continue, hopefully for the short term only.

The Ontario MNR was aware that fishermen were culling live fish in order to keep better fish. They were also aware that a percentage of fish released did not survive. So what to do? So the new regulaton - no live fish in your boat. Is it the perfect answer - maybe not. Its impossible to estimate how many fishermen will act irresponsibly and throw a dead fish back. However, I would suggest that the underlying rationale for this regulation is the continued health of the walleye fishery and not increased revenue.

[5 Stroke]

Retire55,
You have no right accusing or questioning people whether they are reading between the lines of your post. If you think back all of this started when you read between the lines of my post! Also, you state that you have refrained from making accusations "in favour of asking questions"----you called me a whiner, didn't you? Huh? Remember? I didn't appreciate your comments slamming the Americans either(slamming people seems to be what you do best). The vast majority of Americans are upstanding citizens as are Canadians.

Your posts have a lot of animosity to them. You started off with me. I've sat on the side following this thread, had a lot of good laughs (as I hope everybody has had). But your posts are so full of--is it--hatred? despise? revulsion almost? There is something wrong going on here. Why the anger and frustration? I was the first one to feel your barbs. I posted to help make people aware and you skewered me.

On the way home I stopped by the offices of the Ontario MNR to talk to somebody about the citation. We had a very pleasant, far ranging conversation. One subject we talked about was this regulation and its origin. If I remember the facts correctly, the regulation was intitiated through the actions of some kind of citizens' advisory panel (which made the recommendation to the Ontario MNR-it was not initiated by the Ontario MNR). It was the citizens that were the push behind this regulation.

I do want to thank you for helping to make this such a lively post. You certainly helped me with my intentions---to help somebody avoid the situation I found myself in. Mission accomplished !!!

5 Stroke

[bigfish1965]

There are different laws in different jurisdcitions no matter what you are doing and where you go. I spend quite a bit of time fishing in NY and I have to read the regs for the state and any local regulations which may apply as well.
I happen to think the kill law is a good one and would support it in a wider scope as well. I have been killing and icing fish for about 3 years. I find it improves the quality of the fish, but this is very subjective.
While I don't agree with Retire55's animosity, I do understand it's origins. It comes from a sense of proprietorship. Just because I kick my car,doesn't mean you can do it too. Canadians are nearly manic about the protection of fisheries and waterways. It is part of our heritage. We are upset when one of our own defiles our resources and even more upset when an outsider does it.We also become upset with responses like "It's a cash grab." Those are statements made by guilty people. Break the law, pay the fine.
5 stroke, I found your post refreshing and informative. You accept responsibilty and attempt to educate others to not make the same mistake.
Yes our regulations are too complex at times. But with so many waterways and such a variety of strains of walleye and other fish and pressures varied and often based on the 'Hot Lake of the Moment',it seems impossible to make sweeping regs for a province larger than most countries and the largest jurisdiction of fresh water in the world.
If you wish to eat fish..excellent...enjoy it. But, like most laws, these were put in place to control the minority that would do harm. Unfortunately it happens that normally very civic and conservation minded people slip up and have to pay the price.
Thank you for the heads up and the reminder that when we travel we have to remember that things are usually different and when you pick up that rod you have a responsibility to ensure you are in compliance.The governement puts out the regulations, it's up to the angler to ensure he reads them.

[red2]

Bigfish 1965, Yours my friend was very well said! I have followed this post the last couple days and found it very interesting to say the least. I use to go to canada every year for about 25 years in a row, I still do every once in a while, but I stopped going regulary cause I felt like they were picking on americans. I felt like they were just looking and hoping they would fine something wrong so they could fine you. Going there as much as I did I knew the rules and never got in trouble but it just felt like you weren't very welcome by the M.N.R. I not complaining about canadians the regular people allways treated us just fine but I allways got and uneasy feeling about the M.N.R. This is an interesting post thow. Tim

[roughrider]

On the issue of the many regulations involved in fishing Ontario,I posted a thread in this forum about transporting eyes taken in slot regulation lakes.I found 3 responses,0ne did not know,second and third guy had different answers.When reading on - line regs,"fish must be readily measurable,except when transported over land".I take that to mean they can be filleted before transporting home as long as each fillet is identifiable with skin patch. I would like some input from our Canadian participants in this discussion on this issue. I would prefer to fillet my fish as to gutting and freezing them,thank you ahead for your input.

[Voice of Reason]

While we are debating the virtues, or lack thereof, of American anglers in Canada - lets be fair. Keep on pounding on our ethics while importing your hippie lettuce into the states!!

[bigfish1965]

Except for July and August, my lettuce all comes from Florida.

[5 Stroke]

Those of us down here in the United States have a vested interest in the health of the Canadian fisheries as well as our own, so I hope that we also have that sense of propietorship. I personally demonstrated it by picking up that can of propane, as well as leaving your country with less than my legal limit of fish (had a couple of excellent shore lunches--mmm,mmmmm). Personally I think retire55 is an ill-tempered person who LOVES to make his opinion known!
5 Stroke

[Canadian Guy]

From todays paper............fines during a three-day fishing enforcement blitz on Lake of the Woods.

From June 10 to 12, nine conservation officers and two deputy conservation officers from Sioux Lookout, Dryden, Fort Frances and Kenora district offices checked 818 anglers, 649 of them non-residents. 93 per cent were law abiding, but 31 were charged, 29 of them non-residents. Another 23 warnings were issued.

[local yocal]

and this also.

Fish poachers busted on border
Journal Staff Report

Friday, June 11, 2004

U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers in International Falls searching vehicles returning to the U.S. from Ontario on Saturday and May 25 found numerous fish exceeding the legal limit.
On Saturday, Minnesota Conservation Officer Lloyd Steen of Ray, was called to U.S. Customs to process an illegal importation of an overlimit of northern pike from Ontario.

Five men from California were apprehended smuggling 43 northern over the limit in their duffle bags, suit cases, and sleeping bags. A $1360 bond was collected.

and:


On May 25 CBP officers notified Steen that a Missouri pickup, with two adult males and one adult female, came through the primary inspection line with a declared limit of fish. The group was referred to the secondary inspection line for further examination.

A thorough search of the luggage and a cooler revealed a legal limit of 12 walleyes and 12 northerns (Ontario limit is four walleyes, four northerns each).

But a look under the hood caught Steen's attention.

"The CBP officer looked in the engine compartment and noticed two large yellow plastic bags and a bottle of alcohol on top of the engine," Steen said. The contents of the bags consisted of 41 frozen and partially frozen walleye fillets and 12 northerns.

Steen went inside the CBP office and talked with the owner and driver of the vehicle who claimed they were all fishing at a camp located on the English River in Canada.

"He said he was the one who hid the fish under the engine hood and he should be the one held responsible," Steen said. "I explained to him that they were all in possession of the fish and I found it hard to believe that his partners didn't see the fish being placed under the hood of the vehicle."

At this point, the other male passenger said, "Well, we told him not to do it."

Dennis A. Berger, 45, Blue Springs, Mo.; David E. Holley, 44, Lake Lotawana, Mo. and Brenda S. Bowen, 46, Browning, Mo., were issued citations for possessing an overlimit of walleye from Ontario, Canada, importing them into Minnesota and fined $880.

"In light of the recent overlimit case discovered during a traffic stop by the Lino Lakes Police Department, this is another good example of our working relationship with Federal agencies as well," Steen said. "You just can't have enough eyes and ears when it comes to protecting natural resources."


And then in the Intl. Falls these guys were caught and they really hammered them with a proper fine. Funny thing the fine is massive compared to the fines given to the fish poachers that did the poaching on the Canadian side.

COs seize 67 Rainy Lake walleye as result of tip
By Laurel Beager, Senior Writer
Monday, June 14, 2004

Sixty-seven Rainy Lake walleye were seized Friday from two Illinois men as a result of a called-in tip from concerned anglers.
Todd A. Gross, 38, Springfield, Ill., and Robert C. Rogers, Carlinville, Ill., 35, were charged with possession of an overlimit of walleye and possession of walleye over the slot limit.

The actions resulted in seizure of the fish, a $3,950 penalty, revocation of the men's fishing licenses and seizure of a boat, motor and trailer.

About 30 of the confiscated fish were within Rainy Lake's protected slot limit, according to local conservation officers.

The case stemmed



from a telephone call made by concerned anglers to the local Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Fisheries Office, where Minnesota Conservation Officer Lloyd Steen happened to be visiting.

The cell phone caller told Steen that she and her friend had watched from a boat as two anglers cleaned fish on Deer Island for 45 minutes. The caller said the men were loading back into the boat at the time of the call.

Steen asked the caller to follow the boat and report back. In the meantime, Steen contacted Conservation Officer Dave Rorem and the two met at Tilson Bay public access where the anglers were unloading their boat.

The conservation officers interviewed the men and searched their equipment.

The men had 19 walleye over their limit, with 10 walleye over the allowed slot size for Rainy Lake, reported Rorem.

One of the men admitted that they had more fish at the motel in International Falls they had been staying at for one week.

At the motel, Rorem and Steen found 40 additional walleye, with 20 of those fish over the slot size.

Seizure of the men's fishing equipment is the first local use of the state's gross overlimit law, which was approved by the Legislature a few years ago, said Steen.

Kevin Peterson, DNR area fisheries supervisor, said recent overlimit charges against several anglers is shocking.

"It's hard for me to understand people that greedy," said Peterson, whose job involves managing the fisheries.

Peterson pointed to the tip call as an example of how law abiding anglers can help ensure a healthy fishery.

"This is a good example of how private citizens who make a phone call can help," he said. "Without that call, these men would have been back in Illinois with a freezer full of walleye."

Local yocal

[Limiterr]

Our fines in Ontario are all over the board. It depends on the judge doing the fining. We have a judge in Thunder Bay who is viscious to poachers. I've seen $2500 fines and loss of equipment for 10 fish over. Other times you see a $50 per fish fine. I like the automatic loss of all equipment for blatant overfishing. This includes boat motor and all fishing gear.

[local yokel]

I agree the fines have no consistency. The poachers who took 53 fish extra from Canadian waters and were caught at the American border were fined $800.00, which is about $15.00 a fish. CHEAP FINE!

The poachers who took 55 extra fish from the American side waters were fined $72.00 a fish and revocation of the men's fishing licenses for five years and seizure of the boat, motor and trailer. EXPENSIVE!

Why make the fines this much different. Maybe because Canadian fish are thought to be limitless? Funny how even the Minn. Government views our game laws. No I understand why so many people who got caught at the border were only ticketed for 1 fish in the past. Because they were let off by the customs. In reality they were caught with a lot more, just the charges were lowered because the fish came from Canada.

A permanent game and fish check station along the Canadian highways is coming to lower the boom on poachers. I would bet it could pay off our national debt quick. Our game wardens could use some fancy SUV’s to drive around and seizing them on the spot makes sense.

Local Yokel

[Limiterr]

Excellant post.....

[Bor]

Last year at Lac Seul, the eight guys from my neighbor cabin caught their limit on the first day and froze the fish. Each guy kept one over the slot and the three under. They had an elaborate shore lunch box, and bragged every day that they each had two walleye for lunch every day, and four days they had walleye for dinner.

That means that they killed 32 a day.

I pointed out to them that if they had their limit in the freezer, then they should not have shore lunch or dinner walleye because they were then over the possession limit every fish they ate. They thought that I was joking and laughed.

I kinda pointed out to the resort owner their practice, and he chewed them out. He was more mad theat they kept over slot fish than he was about the number of fish they killed. (they had a 29" in the freezer)

5 guys in that group were from Canada, one was from Newfoundland (they said Newfy's do not count as Canadian which I don't understand), and two were from Kentucky.

It does not matter what the rules are, or where people come from. There are idiots everywhere. I just wish the true idiots got caught more often, and the minor offenses got slaps on the wrist.

[JeffUSA]

Seems to me that this issue is getting alot of attention. Is fishing that slow guys?

[Judge]

It's stuff like this that makes me sick!!!!!!!! I do have a fishing report for just south of the border and the walleyes seem to be biting better on leaches than worms on my lake. Water Tepm. 68

I hope we can move on to fishing. Has the fishing picked up on Lake Minnitaki?

Tite Lines

[JeffUSA]

I totally agree with strict fines for poaching. I am from Minnesota and I am sick of hearing people complain of the strict limits for fish in Canada. What would be so great about coming to Canada if they were overfished like almost every lake in Minnesota. Most lakes in Minnesota are stocked to try to keep up with the tremendous burden people put on them. I applaud Canadas conservation efforts. I want to come and catch and release tons of walleyes for decades to come. Why would anyone who goes through such effort to fish in Canada want to spoil the quality of the fishery they enjoy so much?

Canada could increase the speed limit a bit though.

[Suzuki]

Ditto. Thank for the heads up. I don't undertand what all the other posts are about. Everyone makes mistakes and I appreciate you sharing yours with us. Wierd law.