: Why are SOME people so inconsiderate?
05-30-2004, 08:04 AM
I left my dock Sat. morning from Lake Erie Metropark, ran out towards West sister Island After a great day out there Friday with hopes of another great day. I took a good friend of mine and his 11 year old with me. My buddy isnt much of a fisherman but his son wants to try it so I love to bring kids with me so here we go. I set up way before the pack of boats that had gathered aroound the Island and told my buddy to just keep the boat staight and let me work the lines. All was well until we started to get nearer the boats, my buddy asked me what should he do, I looked around and we were heading in the GENERAL direction of a few boats. I saw 2 boats trolling in the same direction as me, south and 1 boat drifting west I told my buddy to just stay the course that we should be ok. Once we passed these boats I told him we would turn and head the other way. As I passed the boat that was drifting I noticed it was a charter boat with about 8 peaple aboard, I'll bet I was at least a couple hundred yards from him when we passed him but I guess he thought it was a little to close as I saw him have his customers pull their lines. Well you can guess what happened next, Across the back of my boat he went cutting 2 lines I had back about 140 ft. I lifted my arms as to ask him why and I got the one finger salute!!! well I was extreemly ticked but what are you gonna do? Start a fight? I just looked at my buddy and his son and said i'm glad I'm not spending my money on this jerks boat. I explained to the 11 year old that that guy was not the norm but the exception to people that I call Fisherman. We just turned the boat around at that point and I set a few more lines and finished filling our limits. I didnt post the boats name as I dont want to slam a guy who just may have been having a bad day or he had a bad bunch of customers. But if it happens again I wont hesitate to let the public know. Well thanx for letting me vent. By the way the fishing is hot by the island right now!!!
05-30-2004, 11:26 AM
I might want to punch him but I'd get into trouble,Its probably not a lot of money loss but You could get him to waste a day in small claims court if YOU can afford the time,. for your loss,. but don't expect to win because he can say he didn't do it intentionally,.but thats not the point. Lawyers use this all the time. I own property and tenants come up with all kinds of excuses to take to into small claims. At first I couldn't understand why they were doing this for such silly and paltry sums untill a lawyer told me he was going to take me to court and didn't care if he won...Its a pain in the backside to get haulded in there of time and money. What it might do is make him know that he may be repsonsibile for his actions.
05-30-2004, 11:31 AM
Bring a camera and record the event, to serve as evidence should you want to make the guy's name public.
All I can say it is in some people's nature to believe they own the spot that they fish, and have no thought towards another. I had 2 'incidents' this last Friday that tested my calm too.
As we trolled past an entrance to a marina, and a boat pulling 2 air rafts - with kids clinging to them - came head on towards me in idle speed. I nicely pointed towards my bright yellow inline planer boards and made him aware of them, so he could turn away. His kurt response: "you are in the way of me getting in the marina". I had to reel both boards in to let him pass. Sheesh, and we were already 100 yards past the entrance!
Then we trolled the shoreline with one board hugging it. At one point I let the board get 20 feet from it and a fisherman buzzed his boat past between the board and the shore. I had a feeling he did it to scare the fish away.
Really do not think that courtesy will never again be the rule and one has to have great patience and shift with this ilk in order to not have these acts ruin a fishing trip.
05-30-2004, 12:38 PM
youre nicer than me....i had a teenager on board who never caught a fish....hooked into a 20+ king....all boats kept away from my stern area as the king had over 100 yds out...all was going well and a fishing boat exits the ditch...with downriggers and outriggers..so i know he was a fisherman....i was 400 yds east of the mouth of the ditch...yep...he sails w/in 50 ft of my stern...i'm standing on the rear of my stern waving like crazy....he picked up the line...ruined my daiwa 47h because the line just starts peelin off like crazy....i think i woulda boarded his boat and duked it out if i coulda....don't know if i'm still over that one and it was 2 yrs ago!...steve
05-30-2004, 02:01 PM
Carry a camcorder and recored the boat at a wide enough zoom so you can tell how close they were then zoom on the MC numbers and let your local DNR view the tape.
05-30-2004, 04:29 PM
You've described an event I seem to hear about, or experience myself, annually with Ohio-based charter boat captains. Last season I had a boat (who I identified here on WC) run across two of my Offshore planers WHILE HE WAS ON PLANE returning to port. Never even once looked up at us.
05-30-2004, 05:28 PM
I had a regular on my message board who would post his reports on depth and lure colours, etc. This was all on LAke Ontario so the information was good without giving away too much info. He started getting slack from a few charter guys on another board and then one day one of these fools altered course to come across his lines at half throttle. Thye then yelled that maybe he ought to not post so much info on the internet anymore. Apparently these idiots felt that the info was hurting business.They cut his lines on two other occasions and now the guy won't even turn his computer on anymore.
Now these guys wouldn't do it to me since I do volunteer work for the MNR and am often in uniform...but I wish like heck they would try it sometime. I can think of all kinds of charges for that! Not only that but the internet is a powerful tool to keep idiots like this in the harbour.
05-30-2004, 07:21 PM
I work out of Customer Service for a Major Utility and believe me people can be really really strange. In the old days Evolution would clean up a lot of or most of these issues but today it's a different story. A cold winter back then cleaned up the substandard providers or the non team players.
05-30-2004, 10:12 PM
Let's take this issue out of the fishing/fisherman/water context and look at the larger picture.
Not everyone's values are the same as everyone else's. Not everyone's opinions are the same. Not everyone's judgement is the same. Not everyone's respect for life and property and the rights of other people is the same.
Once you realize that, it is easy to understand that some people can be jerks some of the time or even all of the time.
That is why we as a society band together and give up some of our individual freedoms in exchange for protection by our government. The government provides these protections from MAJOR misbehavior in the form of constitutions and laws that run the gamut of misdemeanors to felonies. Somehow we have not gotten around to organized approaches to handling jerks, so we have to take individual approaches to defend outselves.
Documentation with a cam corder is a great idea. Reporting registration numbers to authorities is another. Reporting their behavior to friends we might have in common is another ... sort of like the old "banishment" punishment if the behavior is bad enough. Most of the time, though, if the behavior is not repetitive, we just have to broaden our shoulders and live with it.
All over some freakin fish? The guy was wacked! Just goes to show you that any boob can get a Captains license, but they can't teach civility and common sense. The guy should have his Captains license jerked!
05-31-2004, 06:52 AM
Actually if you have credible evidence, and it's overwhelming, in your favor, you can report the actions to the Coast Guard. If they feel it that the actions of this guy is out of line, and he has broken issues like Rules of the road, and is considered a hazard, they can have inquiry and if they feel he is definatly in the wrong his license can be revoked.
05-31-2004, 07:27 AM
My dad made sure I grew up to be a sportsman and also to treat other people in the field and on the water as I would like to be treated. Look far enough back and the jerk had a jerk for a father ect,ect.
05-31-2004, 07:29 AM
Well I knew I wouldnt be the only one that this happened too, I guess thats why I started this thread so we would have a place to vent. The funny thing is I did have the camcorder with me but it happened so fast and unexpectedly that I didnt have time to record it. I guess I'll have to be more concerned with this kind of stuff in the future. I usually stay away from the packs anyway just to avoid the morons, but with a couple rookies in the boat I let my guard down a bit. If it happens again maybe I'll be ready for it and I wont hesitate to use any lawful means to let the public know and law enforcement will be notified. Thanx again guys. Jeff
05-31-2004, 09:46 AM
My buddy and I had similar experience Saturday at an area we've fished in the past, this time of year with much success. Last year, we really thumped the eyes trolling for three weeks on an underwater structure. We pretty much had it to ourselves last year, and this year except for two charterboats when we arrived Saturday. We immediately had two nice 4-5 lb eyes on after setting our boards. For the next 20 minutes, we moved around, not in anyone's way, and plotting our course for trolling. After we boated our 5th fish, we soon found that more and more charters were showing up. This area doesn't get much pressure because it's so far from docks on shore. It's a long way for charters, or anyone for that matter. As time went on the charters would catch one casting now and again, we caught over thirty in three hours catching and releasing. We never got too close. But, the casting charters were drifting. Several times while we were trolling, they either ran plenty close to the outside boards and then shut down in front of our troll. I could name names of boats...but the fact is they have a pack mentality and will stick up for one another. As far as I'm concerned...they were embarassed because two guys caught more fish than 60 paying clients. They didn't have the character to take it. I'm finding more charters are like this when walleyeing and are even worse when I'm bass fishing. As far as I'm concerned, they are glorified trailer trash with captain's lic.
05-31-2004, 11:18 AM
Does reporting these incidents to authorities really make any difference? So they get a complaint,.maybe several about the same guy, what can they do? WILL they even talk to them? If so your authorities do better than around here. I think the small claims idea has some merit. Not that I like to see suits but imagine (esp) if two or more people (if thats possible in your state) did a collective small claims action against one of these "captains" and . If you were a judge and saw this to be a regular pattern from this guy. He might not do well there.Too bad there wasn't a separate web site that you could post anyone interested in joining on a complaint against xxxxx. In this way you are minimizing any strong unfair flame against the man. (maybe you have a personal issue with the guy or even a competing boat). But then you can be contacted and discuss details and at some point that person would have to sign a complaint with their name for a court hearing. Maybe/maybe not IF a judgement was ordered no matter how small (again the money isn't the point) that could be posted. Maybe thats not even necessary. Just hauling him for half a day to sit around with some of the dregs of society (ever been to one?) OK any good person can be named in a claim by a bad person ,but often you see the same faces of the people that are generally nasty there. My job requires me to go court for these,.I don't like it much but when we do take someone to court and they try to argue with me because they shouldn't pay their rent because the screen was ripped (by them breaking into their own apt when they forgot their keys) and for 3 days flies came in, I tell them,."well THAT'S what judges are FOR, you tell your story and we will tell ours." I once asked a small claims judges about trivial suits (they do them to US) and he said well when you first had a conflict didn't you get upset and at some of the people didn''t you want to punch them in the nose? well thats one reason why we are here. Thats why people don't punch other people in the nose much anymore. It saves people from much bigger legal issues...
06-01-2004, 08:08 AM
That's a good thought, but everything changes when in Canadian waters. I'm contemplating starting a website and start showing pictures, video and naming names and times of charters who act like flamming Aholes. I know it's not all of them, but it's a good number of them. Last year, I had one of the big head boats from PC run over the back of my lines, while running between me and another boat. I through my hands up in the air in disgust, and the first mate, riding on the side/bow flipped us the bird. Now, I'd really like to get that punk in the parking lot and show him a few things. In hindsight, I wish I had reeled up and followed that clown and made an #### out of him in front of all his clients. I've done that with a guy who anchored on me bass fishing . I mean he backed right in on me. He then let the Fbomb go and I told him.....you talk like that in front of my kids (his client had two on the boat), I'd kick your backside pronto. The ironic thing, I ran across him at the Cinnci sports show the next spring. To say I played mind games with him is an understatement. If he's reading this....I'm really sure he knows who he is......
Miss Adventure Guest
06-01-2004, 10:10 AM
I have had some of the same problems on Lake Erie. Biggest problem comes from the MC number on the front of the boat. Seem like some Ohio Charters take offense of Michigan boats in "their waters". The Ohio DNR does the same thing. I had them pass buy dozens of OH number just to stop and chech us to make sure we all had OH licenses.
I do not fish inside packs and try to stay outside and find my own school but have had Ohio charters shut down in my trolling path and than start waving us over. What ya gonna do???
Miss Adventure II
06-01-2004, 11:55 AM
I think the best thing to do is point it out to them while on the water, while they have clients on board. If they aren't smart enough to see they've hired a horse's #### for a capt., it's their problem.
The irony of all of this is the last two times I've had this happen to me, there were guys on our boat who regularly book charter boats for business clients. Now, you tell me wiseboy charter drivers....do you think they will call you on their next go around? You boneheads are cutting your own throats.
06-01-2004, 02:23 PM
Actually there are inconsiderate people on both sides = drifters and trollers. I'm basically a troller and I was probably in the same pack as you Sat. and I saw fellow trollers almost hit boats with their boards !!! And, I also saw drifters who went out of their way to harrass trollers.Some in both camps seem to feel that their way is the only way, too bad. Also same for captains -- i've ment some who couldn't be helpful enough, but othres who were a-holes -- but wait isn't that the same with all groups -- some good, some not so godd ??
06-02-2004, 09:01 PM
You know what amazes the fact that no one charter from ohio came on this thread to defend himself? Guess they think they own the lake over the imagnary line!!! thats alright mi. seasons open since tuesday and I really have no reason to join the a holes over there. When they get this thread or word of it they will respond. At leasst I would if that was my lively hood. Any way this is my last response to thius thread so let me thank all who let me vent and the quilty ones know who they are and I hope there efforts are rewarded with empty coolers and po'd clients God bless the real fisherman and #### help the morons!!!!!!!!!!! Jeff
crispy on 68
06-03-2004, 11:47 AM
Well crispy, I'm an Ohio charter and I'll respond. I don't need to defend myself because I don't cut off other people's lines, set up a drift in front of a troller, troll so I interfere with a drifter or another troller, or believe that I own any part of Lake Erie -- nor do any of my charter friends. Sure there are a--holes who are charter capts. just like their are regular fishermen who are a -- holes. Like Erie Bud said there are bad apples on both sides. I've got to wonder what your attitude was on the water since here you attack all Ohio charters, label them morons and wish them bad luck.
Couple of weeks ago I was drifting near A can, fishing off the bow and this small boat trolls past. All of a sudden I have a strike and set the hook. But wait, it wasn't a strike, I had hooked one of the trollers lines -- he trolled too close or I drifted too close to him (I think I was on drift first but who was keeping score)??? There on his boat was that MICHIGAN registration and here I am -- an OHIO charter. Know what, he reeled in his line, untangled the lines tossed mine back in the water and said "sorry". I nodded, smiled and said OK. Neither of us had to draw a gun so there must be intelligent life on both sides of the border (even making an exception for Supertroller).
So, put away your gun, go fishing and don't sweat the a--holes. They're always gonna be around and if they get to you that's EXACTLY what they want.
rod bender bob
06-03-2004, 12:05 PM
Right on! You have no reason to join all the a-hos over here when you have so many right there where you're at! ;)
I built a pond so I can fish in it all by myself because I can't get along with others. Maybe you should do the same. :) Lighten up dude.
06-07-2004, 05:36 AM
I went with a different buddy this last Saturda, and an open mind, but got the same results. I very nicely invited the charter to get a little closer so we could show his clients where and how to catch fish. We were getting 6 to their one, so the perick tries to run our outside board over. That's when we made the invite. For all the charter boat associations around, you would think you guys could police each other. Every time I've had this crap go on, at least a half dozen other boats are there (charters) and know exactly what is going on. I had to nearly fight with my buddy to keep him from doing a "fly by" plowing water around the charter last Saturday. BOB OH and other legit capts on here, you need to start taking it to guys in your business that arepulling this crap. A lot of guys cannot seperate the few bad versus the mostly good charters.
06-07-2004, 06:22 AM
I had two problems this weekend myself. If you were listening to channel 9 on Saturday, and heard "Slippery Joe you are an axxhole". That was me. He passed right in front of me by 30', buried my nose in his wake and pumped for 3 minutes to get the water out. The other time a boat turned 270 right towards me, had to reel in my one side, when they passed said they were very sorry. I smiled back and waved and asked how the fishing was going. Things happen, some people accept responsibility better than others.
But, I have to say the vast majority of the boats including charters were very cooperative. There was plenty of fish there and everybody just wanted to catch fish and stay away from others as much as possible. I noticed there seemed to be more of a mix of trollers and drifters working the same area. A good recipe for disaster.
I would love for somebody to put up a sight for pictures/stories/names. I would have added Slippery Joe to the list and also the US Coast Guard. They nearly sunk me in the river two years ago. They were drifting along the edge looking for suspicious boats at night. I was handlining along the edge and when I passed them, they opened it up to catch a boat going down the channel. Night spring fishing on the river becomes scary when your back-end gets swamped. It took out my radio, to make a call for help. Fortunately, my main motor didn't miss a beat. I notified them the following Monday and simply said they were doing their best since it was just after 9/11.
Obviously, they didn't do it on purpose since it would be counterproductive on their part. It is the people that do it on purpose when I will post names on here.
well if you can prove what they did and can avoid a civil suit for slander, then I say post the names of these charter captains and hope people read the list and boycott them until they clean up their act
but in posting names you have to be able to prove what they did to protect yourself from a law suit
06-07-2004, 08:54 AM
Careful what you ask for. I didn't name names because I've been told twice there is a group getting a site together for photos and video clip links. I feel bad for the legit captains...because there are several bad ones that are going to make it tough for all of them.
06-07-2004, 03:30 PM
As stated before, this captain is just causing himself trouble. When he ran across the back of you, did he have any lines down or did he cut you off with his prop? Pretty stupid either way. Maybe he's pulling the prop off as we speak and pulling out line. Do you use superbraid?
If I were a paying passenger, regardless of how close you came, that charter Capt. would have been taking me back in and refunding my money so I could spend it on his competitor. Completely unprofessional and dangerous. Perhaps his passengers felt that way too. I doubt they'll go out with him again.
Whether I'm on the road driving, or out on the water, that's not the time to act tough. Road and water rage is getting worse and worse. You've heard the stories of people shooting at each other fighting over a gas pump. Who wants to get in a lawsuit? I try to avoid these encounters as much as I can. What's important for all of us to realize in these situations is how you react after it occurs. Sometimes you can't avoid getting crowded or tangled up with another boat, whether it's you fault or theirs. It's happened before; it will happen again. The one thing you can control is your temper (rage) and how you react after it occurs. Obviously, the charter captain chose the incorrect reaction. You on the other hand, had enough respect not to post his name, but have brought the issue up so that hopefully others will learn and raise their awareness. You also taught an extremely valuable lesson to that young man on your boat, and isn't that what it's all about?
06-09-2004, 07:20 PM
OK Well 1st time on line since last post and this thread gets more attention then I thought it would. I appreciate all your replys both positive and negative. thank you Bob,oh for your input, I know all charters are not a holes and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Matter of fact I have hired a few for salmon fishing and had a blast along with duck hunting charters who were very professional and hard working guys. I just ran into one of the few bad guys that day. Last Sat. me and another buddy went out to around same spot and had a problem of our own and the few guys that were around were very considerate in my dilema including an Ohio charter captain! I set up way in front of the pact again and as I was letting my boards out one of them broke, the rod that holds the 2 together I lost the clip and the boards slipped of line, well luckily the boards float so I could retrieve them but I had to turn around and I ended up close to a few guys who seen my situation they gave me room and were very understanding, No waving fist or one finger salutes!!! I was able to pick up my equipment and carry on tho 1 board short. Still managed to get 2 limits and had a great day. So I guess the idiot that crossed my path a week earlier just struck the wrong nerve and I had to vent. And yes JJmac the youngster that was with us the week prior learned that it is better to walk away then to make matters worse. So for that I'm happy I was able to keep my temper in check.
06-10-2004, 04:44 AM
My problem has been something different from any time before on the water .BIG GIRLS on PWC I don't know if they are checking me out (OLD FAT GUY )because I am by myself or what but they are coming within serveral feet of the boat . I guess I need to quit smiling at them .
07-13-2004, 10:06 AM
You need updated on the law. As long as you form your statement in the form of an opinion you can SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT ABOUT ANYBODY. Example: IT IS MY BELIEVE THAT JOE BLOW CHARTER CAPTAIN IS THE WORST LOW LIFE, LINE CUTTING TRAILER TRASH AND ANYBODY WILLING TO PAY MONEY TO FISH WITH THAT IMBECIL IS STUPID. THAT STATEMENT IS NOT SLANDER OR LIBEL. IT IS YOUR OPINION AND YOUR OPINION IS GUARANTEED BY THE 1ST AMENDMANT IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THE U.S. IF YOU NAME A LIST OF CHARTER CAPTAIN JUST STATE YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE SCUM. YOU DON"T EVEN HAVE TO HAVE A REASON.