I have a question about consistent lure depths running big boards. How do you guys compensate for the difference in height off the water between the line closest to the board and the line closest to the boat. I usually run 3 or 4 lines per side and the line closest to the boat is 6' or so above the water. That means that there's 14-18 ft of line out of the water. So if I let out 14-18 ft more of line when setting the last line out so it's running the same depth as the outside line, when I have to move it down closer to the board as we catch fish, it means the lure is running deeper than it should. Any suggestions?

Ricky,
You are right that when using the big boards if you have the same lead lenghts the outside lines that have the release closest to the water will be running deeper than your inside lines that can have as much as 30 feet of line in the air. Best bet is to pay attention to which lines seem to be taking fish and adjust accordingly if needed. Also better to be 10 feet "too high" in the water column than 10 inches "too deep" Depending on your setup you may be able to use something to pull your towline down closer to the water to minimize the difference if your boards will pull out enouth to keep the towline from drooping in the water. But the difference isn't necessarily a bad thing - you will be covering more depths - just try and pay attention to which rods fire to know what to adjust.

Good Luck,
Steve

In makes absolutely no difference in the heigth of the rod off the water according the Romanack's a Holt's Trolling books. What that means is if you let out 150 feet of line and put your release next to the BIG TOW board and that line is pinche to a release on the surface of the water, the same crankbait with the same pound test line of 150 feet of line will run at the same depth even though it is pinched to the release closest to the boat at a distance of 6-10 feet above the water. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE to what depth the lure is running. Get their book and read ALL ABOUT IT.

FREEBYRD


You are 100% ABOSOLUTELY WRONG. The outside line/crankbait with the same amount of line out is running at the same depth as the inside line with the same amount of line out!!!!!The reason you are catching fish on the outside line is NOT because it is running deeper it is because your outside line are where the fish are located that have veered away from the boat. As your boat goes through the water, fish veer away from the boat. THAT IS WHY WE USE PLANER BOARDS TO GEt THE LINE AND LURE AWAY FROM THE BOAT AND OUT WHERE THE FISH SPREAD TO. Before you tell somebody about how a trolled lure runs, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT or better yet buy Holt an Romanack's Trolling book and get some knowledge.

I just looked through Precision Trolling and Mark's "Trolling Top to Bottom". Neither one of them stated that rod height made no difference. The reason I looked is because I know it is false. Where the line enters the water to the lure should be the same if you want to run the same depth (assuming same line, etc., etc.). Rods that are higher, the line simply enters the water further away. There is no way the lures can run the same depth.

Mig,
Freebyrd has probably taken just as many 'eyes as anyone that fishes. HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!!!

Stormsearch,

Ok smart Guy. Go ask Romanack or Holt. The 1-800 number is available on this website. You are 100% wrong. I know both these guys from early MWC days when there was No
PWT and I have asked them personally and they said rod position makes abosolutely no difference to the depth of the lure. I have been using their book since they researched the first edition and unlike what Mike McClelland said when his first crude crankbait depth chart came out, rod position is NOT a factor in making the lure run deeper or shallower. Mark even said you can put the rod tip under water for the length of the rod and it DOESN'T matter. If you think it made a difference don't you think they would have told you so???? Stop and think about it. Rod position is NOT a factor and I don't care how many walleyes that Freebyrd has caught.

Quoted from:

Precision Trolling 1996 Page 19,

"If we actually look at the expanse of line between the rod tip and a trolled crankbait, we see that the majority of the line lies surprisingly close to the surface of the water. At about 2/3s back the line begins to bow into a more than verical descent toward the lure. As the crankbait dives deeper, it pulls more of the line under water into this vertical attitude."


What he said was that the rod height on the boat for the first 2/3s of the line out DOES NOT AFFECT THE LAST 1/3 which is the amount of line the lure needs to dive it's particular depth. I guess if you run a real super ridculous short lead off your inside line while running BIG boards it would make a difference but most people run the shallow running lures farthest away from the boat and as you get close same book. This concludes this argument because without a doubt the height of the rod in the rod holder HAS NO EFFECT ON THE DEPTH THE LURES achieves with the SAME diameter line and line out. If you have ANY proof to the contrary I would be glad to look at it but Mark and Steve have more knowledge than anyone and they say IT DOES NOT MATTER. That being said, I believe Mark and Steve are the experts on this subject contrary to how many zillion walleyes Freebyrd has caught. Where does FreeByrd get his facts to support his argument??????

Mig I don't see freebird arguing anything at all, one post with his observations. One thing that is funny is I saw on a TV show with a former poster from this board talking of how much easier it is to use small boards for night fishing the sag because with the short leads in shallow water with big boards it was very hard to determine the running depth on the high or inside lines with them so high off the water. Makes sense to me if you are running a crank 25 ft back and it is 6 feet above the water it is not going to run as deep as the same lure with 25 feet in the water. I know this may be a ridiculously short lead, but for our spring and fall night trips that is normal with sometimes much shorter drops.

Scott

Well......Why would anybody run BIG boards at night in the first place????? I have NEVER heard of anybody running BIg tow boards night. The line sag is a pain in the butt anyway on big boards even in the day time to get a "clean release". I wouldn't have a notion why anybody would even THINK about TRYING big boards at night. It is a mute point on the small boards because the line attachment point is alway ON the boards at water level. The point I was trying to make is THE ROD POSITION MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN HOW DEEP A CRANKBAIT DIVES. FOr all pratical purpose there is really no situation where you would run extremely short leads on the lines closest to the boat with BIG TOW boards with 25 feet of line out. That is why running the deepest running lure is always closest to the boat. If you can visualize the set-up looking at the rear of the boat it would be "V" shaped. For example: If you wanted to run 6 Hot-n-Tots there would be a 15 foot line out difference between the one closest to the board and the second one from the board to keep them from tangling on turns. I don't even run Big tow boards any more because it works alot better running 6 inline boards with 3 on a side. The statement that Freebyrd made saying the identical crankbait that runs on the tow board runs deeper then the one closest to the boat with a rod holding the line 6 foot oof the waterhigh with BOTH having the same amount of line out is FALSE.

Mig Man,

I believe you are correct and maybe misunderstood each other. I agree with what you are saying if the amount of line out is beyond obtaining more lure depth, where it is attached will not make any difference. Say 200' back, another 50' on a Deep Jr. is not going to matter that much unless running a very small diameter line. I also agree that a line attached 6' higher will not necessarily cause a crankbait to run 6' higher in the water column.

But if we look at the dive curve of a Deep Jr., let out 100', attach it to the planar board line and slide it down as the outside line, the lure will reach roughly 14'. If I setup an identical rod, let out the same amount of line, attach to the same planar line, except now that line is riding 6' out of the water, the line will enter the water guestimating 30' back (probably more but I rarely use mast & ski's). You just lost 30' of line the lure can use to dive. You have 30' of line out of the water compared to rod #1 which has its full 100' of line in the water. Looking at the charts again, that lure will run roughly 12.5'. I agree that it will not run 6' shallower, closer to 1.5'. The main factor why that happnes is because water resistance plays a much bigger role than air.

Now take into consideration using bb's and spinners. There is no longer a bow (or very little) in the line and the depth differences are determined based on where the line is attached. But the main argument was with regards to crankbaits and not bb's.

If I remember right, I read somewhere where all of the dive curves were obtained with the rod tip 1' above the water line. Can anybody confirm? It's not in their PT book.

MIg man...I don't think you understood my original post. Read it again. Freebyrd's answer was 100% right. I never asked about rod heigth above the water. That would be irrevelant with big boards since the line is attached to a release on the planer board line.

You might try a little more subtle approach next time if you have an issue with what someone has posted.

Ricky,

I think Mig Man is on the pipe again!

Tim

I agree Toolman. One thing for certain, he can't read. But, he seems like a great troller to me, he got all of us biting :-)


rod bender bob

He sure did bob oh. I've not noticed any previous posts from him. Has he used a similar approach in the past?

Woooow! The pipe and too much HATER-AID!!!!!

Good luck and be safe...See Ya! :)

Hi MIG Man,
People run big boards at night because thats the way they are comfortable with.What works for you does not work for everyone.We run big boards and love them.I run all my leads the same lenght.Catch a fish on the outside or middle one and you just run the other ones out.I run hard line on my boards so I can tell if there is a fish or weeds on the line.The outside line does get the most hits.I can't say whether the outside inline board gets the most hits as I don't use them but I suspect they do.To make things short I have not troubled myself with worrying about the height of the lines coming off the mast.My main problem is finding the fish.I will finish in saying that I would be happy to fish with FreeByrd anytime.





May I be fishing somewhere Tomorrow

Boy I bet it would be FUN to fish with the anonymous MIg Man.

I don't have any arguments - but I guess my "evidence" would be my cooler/livewell. I'm probally just really lucky - and that is OK - might name the next boat "blind luck..."

Back to RickyP's original question - in most situations we keep most of the lead lenghts on one side the same to avoid any tangle issues. Might experiment with a line or two and usually do run a high "feeler" line on the outside when first setting up just in case.

In general unless your setup is very unique and your towline is WAY off the water then don't get too caught up with it - BUT keep it in mind especially if the guys you exchange fishing info with are all using little boards. If you are using long leads - around the maximum for a particular lure then the effective diffference in depth between a line closest to the boat with a lot of line in the air compared to a line at the end of the towline with most all the line in the water the difference probally isn't as extreme as say running a 20/30/40 jet with relatively short leads like 30-50 feet.

If someone wants to believe there is no difference in the depth obtained with a 30-40 foot lead between the outside rod that basically has all 30-40 feet of line out in the water and an inside line that may be 10+ feet above the water and at least 15 to maybe 20 feet of line in the air, I'm not going to attempt to change your opinion - I don't really care one way or the other. The depth difference isn't a bad thing.

If you haven't tried short leads off big boards...well you might consider it at certain times. Again my "evidence" would be my cooler.

Maybe I am 100% wrong - and if so I'll just stick with being 100% wrong and lucky.

Perhaps a poll is in order - who would you rather fish with?

Have a great day!

Steve Carlson
steve199132@yahoo.com
330 697-1499 cell

Freebyrd,


The question remains is that FREEBYRD made a statement that the line closest to the BIG Board runs a deeper crankbait than the line closest to the boat on a rod holder above the water. I said you were wrong if the line was the same distance out with the same pound test diameter. You made an incorrect statement because you don't know what you are talking about. LMAO.....running Big boards at night is one of the not so smart things I have heard lately. How in Hades could you see the bow in the line if you have a lttle fish on that didn't release!!!!!! I know you use a BIG spotlight????? Big Boards at night is NOT the way to GO and is NOt recommended by the more knowledgeable trollers for nighttime walleye...PERIOD.


FreeByrd Says in first response,


Ricky,
You are right that when using the big boards if you have the same lead lenghts the outside lines that have the release closest to the water will be running deeper than your inside lines that can have as much as 30 feet of line in the air.


The simple fact still remains that Freebyrd has been proven wrong 100% and IF you think rod position matters then CALL up MARK Romanack or Steve Holt and ask them if it does!!!! Then come back here and tell all the fine folks that MR Walleye Jesus FreeByrd is WRONG. I have used big boards since the late 1970's before Freebird was around and my cooler has got a ton of walleye, salmon and trout in it too. While the bigboards take fish, most serious guys running 6 lines don't use big boards any more due to the advantages of inline boards over Big Boards. I sold off all my BIG BOARDS stuff years ago. You just can't get a clean release no matter what equipment and releases you use running tow boards and I have used EVERY release on the market. Small fish won't release and light releases release in rough water. LINE BOW is THE Big problem.

Your 100ft Deep Jr it would make no difference because the last 30 feet is the only part of the line that is concerned with the 14 feet deep that the Deep JR runs. The first 70 feet of line, even if it is 7 foot above the water on a trolling rod, WILL HAVE NO EFFECT on the last 30 feet. Seems weird but that is what MARK and STEVE have observed in scuba gear watching crankbaits run on crystal clear Higgins Lake in Michigan. The question I propose to everyone......If the height of the trolling rod made a difference in how deep the crank bait runs...DON'T YOU THINK MARK AND STEVE WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU SOMETHING ABOUT IT IN ALL THEIR TROLLING BOOKS!!!!!!! The fact is the height DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE and if you don't believe me CALL THEM AND GET THE TRUTH. I AM TELLING YOU WHAT THEY TOLD ME.

Mig Man,

Not sure what your beef with Freebryd is but...I doubt that Freebyrd will respond to this thread again-I wouldn't if I were him. What he stated about which lure runs deeper is absolutely true. If you can't figure out the difference in line out and the effect on a line being held progressively farther above the water, well, I guess that's your problem. Why don't you log on with a registered name and contribute something positive to this site for, say, 2 or 3 years (like Freebyrd has) then someone might listen to you. You do have a name don't you?

Tim

Mig Man,

Not sure what your beef with Freebryd is but...I doubt that Freebyrd will respond to this thread again-I wouldn't if I were him. What he stated about which lure runs deeper is absolutely true. If you can't figure out the difference in line out and the effect on a line being held progressively farther above the water, well, I guess that's your problem. Why don't you log on with a registered name and contribute something positive to this site for, say, 2 or 3 years (like Freebyrd has) then someone might listen to you. You do have a name don't you?

Tim


Freebyrd was caught giving out false information based on him not knowing how crankbaits are trolled. I don't know who Freebyrd is nor is my real name important to the question we are discussing here. IF I were FreeByrd I wouldn't respond either because anybody that knows what I am talking about KNOWS I AM 100% CORRECT. Thus making FreeByrd look not very well informed on how the trolling depth game REALLY WORKS. YOU NEED TO CALL THE 1-800-353-6958 and get the FACTS for YOURSELF. Call me any names you like, but before you do... CALL the 800 number and get some 100% good information. The fact remains is that the 6-8 feet rod height above the water has no depth affect on a trolled crankbait. SHOW ME WHERE I AM WRONG?????

Mig Man-

Whether you think Freebyrd is right or wrong is no reason for you to resort to name calling. All it does to an observer like me is to discount your comments as its from someone with a personal axe to grind, true or not.

Its not the policy of Walleye Central to allow these types of personal attacks and childish name calling.

You could have easily stated your opinions as others have without being nasty and turning an interesting thread into something very ugly. Hopefully this does not turn off RickyP and others from asking questions in the future.

If this continues I will have no choice but to lock this thread.

Mig man,

Are you telling me that if I were to put 2 identical crankbaits out with identical length leads and set one in a holder with the tip at water level and one straight up in the holder (say 10' above the surface) the two baits will will run at the same depth? Please explain this to me. I really don't know much about crankbait trolling either and this is too puzzling for me to comprehend. ;)

Tim

BTW-knowing "who you are" has everything to do with credibility.

That is what it sounds like he is saying. Now I'm all confused, but I feel "luckier" after reading all this. LOL

And I thought my original post was pretty clear. mig man took it to a whole new level. LOL

I do have another question for you guys about big boards. What kind of line do you use for your mainline? I am currently using the flourescent orange dacron(?) line. I see some charter captains and others who use very heavy mono, maybe even weed wacker line. I assume this would be stiffer and have advantages over the softer braided line I am currently using? Thanks.

RickyP,
A lot of Lake Erie charter Captains use 500 pound test spectra braid line as their towline. Made by Western Filament. HiWay Bait in Marbelhead and Fisherman's Wharf in Port Clinton sell it in 300 feet spools. It isn't cheap but it works good. About $25 per spool. The releases seem to slide down it better than the standard yellow or orange dacron line that come on most board reels. It also seems to flex less and the boards just seem to pull better. I've heard of people using weed whacker line but haven't seen/done that myself.

By the way - my biggest point in the previous response - that more than likely got missed with all the other posts - was be aware of some difference but don't worry about it - it is basically a good thing.

Good Luck,
Steve

I vote for Migman to fish with. I want to see who this clown is. Sorry Steve you came in a close 2nd. Takes grapefruit sized ones to act like this towards one of the biggest Walleye central, lake erie contributers. I want to see if I drag him behind a dipsey rod with the tip at the water line will he get water logged the same as if he was 10 high off my planer mast but that would have to be during daylight because it is scientific fact that one could not use his planer mast to drag someone off of during the night right? Or am I just confused????

Scott

>I vote for Migman to fish with. I want to see who this clown
>is. Sorry Steve you came in a close 2nd. Takes grapefruit
>sized ones to act like this towards one of the biggest Walleye
>central, lake erie contributers. I want to see if I drag him
>behind a dipsey rod with the tip at the water line will he get
>water logged the same as if he was 10 high off my planer mast
>but that would have to be during daylight because it is
>scientific fact that one could not use his planer mast to drag
>someone off of during the night right? Or am I just
>confused????
>
>Scott

Scott,
Figured I'd respond to your post here before this whole thing get's nuked - but THANKS for the call yesterday afternoon. We were struggling but did pull a few more after I turned the direction you mentioned when you called. Deep on the Dipseys.
Steve

I used to run weed wacker line. I had a set of Wille reels that came with it. It was great in my opinion.

I tried to rig my new big jon reels with weedwacker line. I had no idea how hard it is to find old fashioned weed wacker line. Don't try the new square stuff. Nothing will slide down it and it has too much wind drag. I finally found some round line that was larger in diameter. It had too much blow back as it caught the wind and I couldn't get it to knot the way I wanted.

I ended up spooling back up with yellow dacron. I eventually got down to pick up the line Steve recommended, but haven't spooled it up yet.

I currently have two sets of big jon reels one with orange line and the other with yellow (both 200#) plus a set of otter boats for sale on the swap board.

Thanks Steve. You've been very helpful as always.

Nuked?

No.

Locked? you guys are in control of that

;)

Hey Mig Man I'd be delighted to show you where you are DEAD wrong, but I won't bother until you get the kahoonaas to sign in.

The question was not about rod heigth or angle. It had to do with height of the release on a towline using big boards.

Steve's follow up hits the nail on the head.

If you'd notice, those of us with a lick of sense, sign in and have our email addresss right there. Good luck and good fishing.

Sorry I wasn't around to stand up for you Steve!!!