Ongoing debate over required I.D. for crossing border

[NWO Fishing Bum]

An article in the Globe and Mail today discusses the ongoing issue, and presents some results of polling people on how likely they would cross the border if a passport or costly special ID was required. This issue obviously has huge implications for the nature-based tourism pursuits offered largely to American tourists throughout NWO (as well as elsewhere). I hope the link works . . .

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060314.wborder0314/BNStory/National/home

NWO Fishing Bum

[jigman 2003]

I know for many this is a huge issue, but for me it really isn't. Most citizens here screamed at how easy it was for the terrorists to come into our country from Canada. Now we finally do something about ease of access and people are all worked up. I know $100 is alot of money to some people, but to me it is one level of pretty cheap insurance.

[2 DOGS]

I look at it as costing me another $10 a year, (passport good for 10 years), pretty insignificant if it keeps one bozo out of the country who has the yearning to blow something up, especially with me in it!
Fishing has become more expensive what with passport, poor exchange rate, $3 dozen minnows, $4 a gallon gas. It's just the price we have to pay to play in the northland. Still cheaper for me than Disneyland, Las Vegas, or Mexico.

[Smarten up]

" . . .how the terrorists came in from Canada" One of the many heavily-advertised thoughts from 9/11 that is rediculous, and heavily speculative. The people are already there, in the US already. Anybody that thinks a measure like this will stop another 9/11 from happening is, quite frankly, naive, and that is being polite!! Think about the magnitude of planning, people, etc. to execute 9/11. Do you really think requiring a different piece of ID at the border will stop something that complex??

Many people on this board (in Canada) will argue vehemently against the gun registry, which they'll say does nothing in terms of getting guns away from criminals, and is just nailing duck hunters! Plenty of people on here will agree with that, right? Well, this border ID is the exact same thing. It will do nothing in terms of stopping the worst individuals from making it across the border, and simply nail the law-abiding people with another money-grab!

As an aside, yet again the US administration appears to have done an excellent job pulling the wool over the eyes of the American public, and have you thinking about border control, enhanced security, etc., and completely ignoring the question that matters, which is WHY! Why would somebody/a group want to attack the US? Why would somebody do something so horrible? Maybe, JUST MAYBE, there is somebody south of the border who realizes the REAL problem, which lies in US foreign policy and the arrogance deeply embedded in the US culture. That is why! And that is what needs fixing . . . not border control.

[Quebecer]

It is a fact that not a single terrorist entered the US from Canada 9/11 or before. There was a border incident a year later on the BC / Washington border and the guy was captured and charged with planning to blow up LAX.

It's funny one proven case of a terrorist border crossing and the public views the border being a sieve.

It's a well established fact that all the terrorists involved in the 9/11 disaster entered the US and were cleared to be there by the US government.

Strange how the truth never gets a play as far as the media is concerned and stranger still that the public accepts all the eroneous reporting.

Even worse is the political mishandling and grandstanding that jeopardizes the future relationships between two strong allies.

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]We went ahead and got passports this winter, because it "should" be smoother going through the border. Not because I think requiring passports will stop anybody from getting across the border, forged passports aren't unheard of. If the US has a border problem, it's the southern border. Our US parks dept employees see hundreds of "foreigners" coming across that border everyday, and can't begin to deal with it. Canadains should be preparing for the influx, :). You can't put 10 lbs. of *@%# in a five lb bag.

Wish'in I was fish'in on Wabby

[NWO Fishing Bum]

I have to agree, if there is a border crossing problem, it's the US-Mexico border!

NWO Fishing Bum

[MTWalleyeHunter]

Get your facts straight....8 of the 9/11 terrorists had origianlly entered the US from Canada.

[MTWalleyeHunter]

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Hopefully you know more about fishing than you do about the Unites State's border/immigration problems.

[Steve of Madison]

Yes, the real border problem is the US-Mexican border. But if we are to protect our borders our citizens that travel abroad or to other countries should have no problems possessing documentation that they are truly indeed citizens to get back in, and that documentation is called a passport. I really can't understand what the problem is? A passport is easy to obtain, relatively cheap, good for a 10 year period of time, and eliminates all kinds of hassels if you travel outside the US. Some of these guys have no problem ponying up $100's of bucks for non-resident licenses, gear, fuel, etc. and have a problem with this. Get over it!

[jigman 2003]

I knew I couldn't state a fact based opinion on this topic without it being attacked. If you notice, I said that I don't mind the added cost. I also said that I knew many would object. I really don't know why Canadians would be upset about this. This is the U.S. government telling its citizens how things are going to be. Are you Canadians upset because you think it will cut down on tourism? I don't think that will happen. Guys will complain about it, but when push comes to shove, they'll go buy the passport. And yes, most of the terrorists who flew the planes into the towers crossed into our country from Canada. I am not blaming the Canadians for that, and I know that passports may not have stopped them all. However, if it stopped one maybe that would have thrown a wrench into the works.

[Quebecer]

Now I know you folks really are great fishermen but when it comes to truth and reality there is something lacking. Here's an imformative reference re: terrorist entering US from Canada from your own Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38816-2005Apr8.html

[jigman 2003]

Here's one for our Canadian friends


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/7/4/125334.shtml

Here's another

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ED081302.cfm

Another

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050407-090715-2323r.htm

Another

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001032.php

What's my point? We got issues with our borders. So, let's do something. Little things can add up to success. I am not a Bush fan, nor a Patriot Act fan. However, I don't see why this issue is a big deal.

[Destroyer]

MTWalleyeHunte and Jigman 2003....what can i say, you are complete morons. Why don't you bow down to your idiotic leader G.W. some more and believe everything he and his government spins. They have fooled you and millions of others into thinking your country is unsafe which has put you into a constant state of fear. Grow a brain and realize that not everyone is out to get you and those that are, are doing so for a deep set reasons that smarten up eluded to in an earlier post.
If you came up to Canada and starting spouting that nonsense about terrorists coming in to the US from Canada I would debate the topic with you, which wouldn't work because you are brainwashed by the horribly inaccurate and biased American media, so i would have to punch you in the nose, sit on you and slap you with a leather glove until you smartened up and realized you've been had by the biggest disaster in the history of american politics...G.W. Bush.
Who am i kidding, slapping you wouldn't change you...this post won't change you, and we all know your country won't change...why do you need to, your the best country in the world....WHY would anyone want to hurt us or our way of life..why............Please!!! If you don't know why you never will and that is sad.

D

[Quebecer]

You'll receive no argument from me relative to the need for border security and vigilance. I have enjoyed the open border for many years until the terrorist incident. There is a time now for patience and understanding. Beneficial and clear laws that will aid in keeping our borders open are a good thing. I personally feel that much of what has gone on in the last five years is very much a kneejerk reaction and a pacifier for a problem that is not easy to solve. There will be many negotiated attempts to create a solution for citizens of both nations to continue moving freely (commerce, tourism, etc) across our borders and the final workable reality is still far in the future.

Yes, Canada prior to 9/11 had a very liberal immigration policy but so did the US, in fact we can all trace our roots to immigrants.

Certainly today's global circumstances require a serious handling of the potential threat to our well established freedoms but let's not lay the blame as a result of press, other media or misguided political misrepresentation.

Before stating as fact any conjecture gained from media hype it speaks well for any of us the asertain the facts. Clouding an issue by continually misstating the truth does not help any of us.

It's real easy to "GOOGLE" research and dispell myth, the majority of us have the access but then again the inherant laziness that infects our society makes it easier to accept the sound bites of the 6:00 news.

[jigman 2003]

Destroyer: God, you're an idiot. If you read my post you'd see that I said I was not a fan of Bush or many of his policies. I didn't vote for the guy either time and wish the Patriot Act would go away. I don't like the war in Iraq, but I do support the war in Afghanistan. At least there we are chasing the real terrorists. Your post is the kind of stuff that inflames negative feelings between our countries. Just because I'm an American doesn't mean I agree with all of our country's policies.

Where in any of my posts did I mention fear? What I talked about was taking measures to prevent any future difficulties. Your post is contradictory. First you insult Americans for thinking others are out to get us, but then you tell us we need to watch those who would like to harm us. If you think I don't know why the world hates Americans, you're wrong. We're an arrogant bunch. We stick our nose where it doesn't belong. We spend billions on wars and little on teaching less developed countries how to live well. With that being said, yes, we are still the best country in the world. It would appear to me that Canadians must feel that way too. After all, 90% of Canadians live within a two hour drive of the border.

Finally, I've gotta tell you. Your acne covered face and puny little body are lucky they can hide behind a computer and insult me. At no point did I insult Canada or Canadians. Just the opposite actually. If you would like to discuss slapping me, punching me, or sitting on me in person we can certainly do that.

[jigman 2003]

Given the article from the Post, I will accept as fact that the 9/11 terrorists didn't cross from the Canadian border. You are correct that the majority of Americans get there news and opinions from places like Fox News.

Bottom line is, yes, many of the things we have done in the last five years are "knee jerk" reactions. However, while some of the measures taken are probably foolish and uncalled for, others seem to make sense. Could you imagine traveling to Europe, Asia, or Africa without a passport?

[Quebecer]

Thanks jigman, now how can we get the other 390.000,000 people on both sides of the border involved.

You're quite right about the passport issue. Our governments will probably attempt a simpler solution to meet the cost issue. Regardless the outcome we will have to endure more BS until a workable document is brought forth.

My main concern is all the doom and gloom posts that feed the misinformed. Our two great countries need to come to some sort of a compromise soon - the costs of lost business and delays are soaring.

After 9/11 I wrote an editorial about the true target being our economies. to date that has been proven true. The quicker we can resolve the documentation the better for all.

[Destroyer]

Jigman, my post was mostly intended for MTWalleyeHunter and not yourself. I shouldn't have lumped you in with the likes of him.
You make some good points and have a realistic view and i hope you can share them with many of your fellow americans that i have discussed these issues with.

Where are you MTWalleyeHunter???


D

[MTWalleyeHunter]

As a US Border Patrol agent having worked both on the Mexican border and the Canadian (currently) all I can say is stay home if you don't like our rules. British, Italians, French, and 100's of other countries' citizens have to have passports to enter the US why should Canada be different? You have know idea what goes on around the border, except for what the biased media of both countries tell you, which is 80% false. And while we are posting links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4722409.stm

Also, if you want to debate this issue more, feel free to email me. A public forum for walleye fishing is not the place.

[Bor]

I think it is funny that Quebecer is defending Canada. I thought people from Quebec want nothing to do with Canada.

How confusing will this get when we have two contries north of the border.

[FlyBoy]

It seems our boys north of the border are a little green with envy. Not to mention anonymous. Real heros guys, try registering - and be accountable for your foolish mouths.

We are an arrogant bunch down here, but we must be doing something right people can't get here fast enough.

EVERY year, Canada does something to make it more difficult for us to visit and enjoy your great country. It won't be long and a lot of people aren't going to think its worth it anymore.

"Sir, you can't help your friend replace the front door on his cabin, only family members can help him, no friends".

After I picked my jaw off the floor, I went and helped my friend with is cabin!

Flame away.

-John

[Quebecer]

Here's another piece of nonsense, sorry Bor - won't happen.

Again the stereotype!!!

[Bor]

Not a stereotype. I know it is rare for someone from the US to pay attention to Canadian politics, but has there not been a large Quebec Separatist movement in Quebec?

[Quebecer]

Not as large as the majority. Being a democracy the one and only close call was voted down.

This in no way lessens the fact that we Quebec residents do get lumped in to the separatist line. My estimation is that the politicos make a lot of hay with the movement both pro & con.

Is it good for Quebec? In my estimation no but there are others who argue that the additional concerns created keeps the feds on their toes.

Other than France, that wart on the top left of the European continent no other democratic government gives the movement any credability.

Guess they still hurt from their loss to the British - way back when.

[Quebecer]

To: MTWalleyeHunter

I quote your 1st post

Get your facts straight....8 of the 9/11 terrorists had origianlly entered the US from Canada.

I quote your second post

As a US Border Patrol agent having worked both on the Mexican border and the Canadian (currently) all I can say is stay home if you don't like our rules. British, Italians, French, and 100's of other countries' citizens have to have passports to enter the US why should Canada be different? You have know idea what goes on around the border, except for what the biased media of both countries tell you, which is 80% false. And while we are posting links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4722409.stm

Also, if you want to debate this issue more, feel free to email me. A public forum for walleye fishing is not the place.

The issue is not whether alien visitors require a passport to enter the US but that US citizens will require a passport to return home. Canada has not stipulated anything to the fact that a US resident must present a passport to gain entry to this country.

If you are in actual fact a border patrol officer then it would certainly be more credible for you to have your facts straight referencing your first post.

I think that most Canadians are very aware of the border issues and the extent that border agents whether they be customs, immigration or other face uncommon and dangerous situations on a daily basis. This applies to those who faithfully carry out their functions on both sides of the border.

In summary, you misrepresented a well known fact and now want to hide behind an email process - I think not.

[Trailerguy]

>Yes, the real border problem is the US-Mexican border. But
>if we are to protect our borders our citizens that travel
>abroad or to other countries should have no problems
>possessing documentation that they are truly indeed citizens
>to get back in, and that documentation is called a passport.
>I really can't understand what the problem is? A passport is
>easy to obtain, relatively cheap, good for a 10 year period of
>time, and eliminates all kinds of hassels if you travel
>outside the US. Some of these guys have no problem ponying up
>$100's of bucks for non-resident licenses, gear, fuel, etc.
>and have a problem with this. Get over it!


[font color=green size=3][b]
1) Here in Iowa,Passports take 4-6 weeks to obtain, "if" you already have the certified birth certificate and ect.
2) As the country of my birth, the United States cannot refuse me or any other legal citzen entry. They can however detain you for a long time while they play their little mind games.

Just last summer my future son-in-law had a last minute opportunity to joint us at the cottage for a vacation. The passport requirement would have stopped that from happening. There are many group trips that gain or lose members at the last minute, over the course of the year. That is one of the reasons Canadians fear a loss of commerce. Nobody will ever convince me that passport requirements will stop terrorists. Like any criminal they will find a way if they choose to.

Wish'in I was fish'in on Wabby

[Destroyer]

"EVERY year, Canada does something to make it more difficult for us to visit and enjoy your great country. It won't be long and a lot of people aren't going to think its worth it anymore".

Hey Flyboy....maybe you personally should get the hint and stay the #### out of our great country!! There is no place for you and your foolish brain up here. I have lots of american friends and quite a bit of family living down by you so don't think my attitude is across the board. You just have a walnut for a brain with a chip implanted in it that is controlled by George W. He presses his little button and you say in a montone voice..."yes sir...what should we all think now....tell us o great wise leader"....makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!

D

[MTWalleyeHunter]

Quebecer:

My original post is FACT. I did not say the terrorist entered the Unites States from Canada just prior to completing their horrifious acts. All I said is that 8 of the 10 had visited Canada and entered the US from Canada at one point in time and we let them in. And if you have ever read the 9/11 commission report, page 178 will tell you that one bomber even was in posession of a Canadian passport. They all had valid passports from various countries at the time even though they were frauduently obtained. Belive me sir when I say that I know more than you do on this subject and it really sets me off when people start talking politics with know real world knowledge of their own. I'm not "hiding" from my original post. So why don't you stop hiding behind your phony name and come up with some real facts.....not crap from the biased Washington post, or other slanted newspapers.

[Quebecer]

MT, you are not carrying on in a very respectable manner. Smoke and mirrors will never take back what you so bluntly stated. I am in serious doubt as to any credibility you may have.

Anybody who has been on this board for any length of time knows exactly who I am. I'm not hiding from anything so change your tune and hum something truthful for a while.

I have the time to debate or research any subject in as great a depth as required. This whole thread has taken a turn that isn't necessary. The concern is the future requirement for ID crossing the border. The initiatives are US driven. Canada is supportive of creating a method that will continue to keep the border traffic flowing while impeding any illegal traffic. Misleading statements that are completely untrue aren't necessary, especially from someone who should be well informed.

[jigman 2003]

Flyboy-this is NOT a Canadian issue. The Canadians are arguing AGAINST the passport requirement. If you are irritated with this requirement you should be talking to your representatives in Congress.

[Atlanta Dave]

At ten bucks a year I dont see what all the fuss is about.As already stated if it stops one terrorist it will be a plus.

Atlanta Dave

[fishanytime]

Regulation and law enforcement rely on paper trails and this likely increases the possibilities that a paper trail will exist when something or somebody breaks the law. It not really about catching someone at the border, these trained professionals know what to look for now.

I not a fan of more regulation, so lets keep it simple find ways to get fishermen across the border in a cost effective way. I have a passport but hope we don't require that from everyone. While we have differences, most of us look at our neighbors as friends and a few emotions expressed here won't change that for me.

[Trailerguy]

> They all had valid
>passports from various countries at the time even though they
>were frauduently obtained.


[font color=green size=3][b] And that is exactly why passports are only for honest people and will not keep terrorists out of our country. The whole passport thing is a knee jerk reaction, fostering a money grab by the government. Nobody was supose to notice that passport prices nearly doubled as soon as this issue was discussed by the adminestration.

Wish'in I was fish'in on Wabby

[FlyBoy]

Destroyer:

How would you have any clue as to my position with W or our government? My post sure said nothing of it.

I see you are maintaining your hero position of being anonymous. Don't worry, registration here isn't anything like your gun registration you and your great government are pulling off. How much have they spent on that now? 100x what they projected? Oh yeah, and they aren't done yet.

I call Canada a "Great Country" because the land and water are second to none, and 95% of the canadians I've met up there have been fantastic. Your government on the other hand (not sure which government you claim to be part of, the big one or the little one, I'm guessing the little one) seems to enjoy squeezing us for no apparent reason. At least the locals realize we are their economy and treat us as such. I don't mind paying $4.00/gallon of gas, but at least sell it to me with a smile!

Be careful what you hope for, if we stop coming, the southern 500 miles of canada might as well get annexed into the USA.

Flame away.

-John (not anonymouse)

[FlyBoy]

Jig:

I'm not complaining about the passports at all. I would be happy to get one. I agree with others, it won't stop another attack, but it won't hurt either.

I only chimed in because of a couple of anonymouse bone heads that think they know what they are talking about. And I tried to point out that the money grab goes both ways.

The funny part is we could all probably sit down and have a beer then go walleye fishing?!!?


-John

[MTWalleyeHunter]

>
>
>> They all had valid
>>passports from various countries at the time even though
>they
>>were frauduently obtained.
>
>
>[font color=green size=3][b] And that is exactly why passports
>are only for honest people and will not keep terrorists out of
>our country. The whole passport thing is a knee jerk reaction,
>fostering a money grab by the government. Nobody was supose to
>notice that passport prices nearly doubled as soon as this
>issue was discussed by the adminestration.
>
>Wish'in I was fish'in on Wabby


Yeah, but now the US has technology to detect fraudulent documents. This did not exist in 2001.

[MTWalleyeHunter]

Whatever Dude

[MTWalleyeHunter]

"2) As the country of my birth, the United States cannot refuse me or any other legal citzen entry. They can however detain you for a long time while they play their little mind games.
"

You are absolutely correct, however the burden of proof is on you to prove that you are a US citizen. What is the best way to do this????? A passport.

Also about the price of passports....I totally agree that they are too expensive. If the Gov't is going to mandize them then they should make them more affordable, but there is a general accountabilty office (GAO) report out there that shows the average cost to produce a NEW US passport is more than what we actually pay. If you do a Google search you might be able to find it. This sounds crazy, but they are full of secuirty features and are machine readable which will help against the fraud part hopefully. Don't believe me, just shine ultraviolet light on your passport sometime.

[Quebecer]

WOW, that comeback took the same amount of thought that your original post did.

[MTWalleyeHunter]

Your comedy is worse than your research skills. Look outside sometime. Take care

[Quebecer]

Good luck to you too.

[MTWalleyeHunter]

Quebecer and other contributors:

I just finished re-reading this post and have determined that I have made some comments that may have come across unprofessionally. I would like to appologize as this is not how I wish to portray myself. While there are some obvious disagreements here it is important that we keep things professional. I have nothing against Canada or Canadians and hope that I did not offend anyone personally. So who wants to go fishing?

[Quebecer]

MT - you have a seat in my boat anytime.

Respectfully, I don't envy your job and admire your willingness to make things right. Your credibility is without question now, at least from me.

Personally it's the "Law Makers" I have a problem with, not the enforcers.

You're on the front line and deserve better.

[jigman 2003]

Yes, the computers we use to communicate fail to show a key part of communication: non-verbal cues. We all have far more in common than we have to argue about. Bottom line, our governments will do things we don't agree with. We have lots of rules and regulations on the books that are not very effective. That doesn't mean we get to break them. This passport thing is pretty ridiculous for us to argue about. If someone were to look back at my first response to this thread, they'd see I predicted this onslaught. They'd also see that I said it was foolish to argue about.

[NWO Fishing Bum]

Yes, I am who I am, and I was born where I was born. Why should I have to pay $100 just to prove I am me. Trailerguy has it right; there is no way a passport will stop the people it is intended to protect the US from. It's an "unprotected" border . . . honestly if somebody doesn't like the response they're getting at the border crossing, walk a mile into the forest, then cross the border. It's beyond stupid to think somebody THAT bent on attacking the US will just forget about it because they don't have a passport. That will be GW's next brilliant proposal . . . "let's build a 5000 mile 10' high fence, because no terrorist is going to bother scaling a fence that high . . ." GENIUS! It's mind boggling that you can pick one person from over 300 million to be president, and you chose this guy!!

And the biggest point is being lost, as seems so often the case with the larger issue here. This is not an enforcement issue, not at all! 9/11 wasn't about the poor US security. It was not about showing how vulnerable the US is to attacks. It was all about making a statement that the US does not control the world, that the US does not decide world policy, that the US can't pull the old "you're either with us or against us" tactic (the chosen targets, if nothing else, should make that perfectly clear). It was an attack on the political and cultural arrogance woven so deeply into the American sociological fabric. And the US still didn't get the message, which has been clearly illustrated since 9/11 (for example, going against the UN, and thus most of the world, by going into Iraq, because GW and company are convinced that the US is best at determining how life should be in Iraq). And what do you think is motivating the ongoing daily attacks in Iraq right now? It's the exact same thing! It's not about how to make the border safer. It's about conducting yourselves (from families, to communities, to states, to a nation in the international arena) in such a manner that nobody wants to attack you. It's a massive shift in political and cultural philosophy that's required. If nobody has a reason to attack you (as in if they consider you friends) there would be nothing to worry about. But the powerful people in the US have kept the general public from questioning themselves and their attitudes, and discussing nonsense like 'secure plastic' to enhance border security. The problem runs much deeper than passports.

NWO Fishing Bum

[Whit]

bum, over half of the americans voting in the last election voted for bush. does that mean that half of us are idiots? or are we just not as enlightened as our liberal northern neighbors? in my opinion, our foreign policy is right on track. it is difficult and expensive to lead the world. it's easy to be a follower and easier yet to set back and be an enlightened intellectual sniper. american politics are absolutely none of your business. just as canadian politics is none of mine. canada is not in a position to be a world leader and never will be in my opinion. in case i may be wrong about that and assuming you all get your kick at the cat, i wish you luck. we are not going to make a massive shift in our political or social philosophy in this generation or the next, so get over it. you are welcome to hate us if you like, look down on us if you like. just stay out of our way, because we are leaders, not followers. we defeated the nazis. we defeated the communists, and we will defeat the terrorists. it will cost us a lot of american dollars and a lot of american lives, but we will prevail. and in the long run, the canadian people will better off for it. no thanks will be necessary though, because we are americans and that's what we do.

[NWO Fishing Bum]

Alas, I fear you are right. I guess your thoughts say it all. You clearly fail to realize that your actions to 'defeat terrorism' are creating the war in the first place. But that's my opinion. And I'm not hating or looking down on you, but just expressing my opinion of why I think you're in the current situation and why I don't think enhanced border security will solve the problem. I only expressed my opinion because of the manner in which this thread developed. What I really care about is the affect this measure (which I don't feel will help the true problem in any way) will hurt cross-border tourism on both sides. There are poeple with similar thinking on both sides, and the article I posted to start this thread indicates their concern is very justifiable.

NWO Fishing Bum

[north_alabama_unlog]

NWO Bum,

That is a very good summary (though I'm not convinced that the people are that arrogant, but the government sure seems so at times). The attitudes of a lot of my adopted neighbors here in the south (I'm a transplanted Illinoisian) is downright scary.

We're spending a lot of effort attacking the what but ignoring the why. But the why will continue to produce the what until the why is eliminated.

Whit,

If our politics are none of the Canadian's business, why are Iraq's politics our business?

[Trailerguy]

[font color=green size=3][b]NWO,

I'm not the first to point out that your politics could use some work.
Canada has had some real sweethearts leading their country in the not to distant past as well.
I voted for GW the first time.... my bad. It didn't take long to realize my error. Apparently a lot of others have come to realize the same thing. We now have a lame duck who's bungled policys are likely to push his party out of power in the upcoming congressional election. That's pretty much what happened in Canada's last elections,eh? That's the problem with Democracies, you screw up enough and all the little guys you hurt bind together and show you the door.

Wish'in I was fish'in on Wabby

[Guest2]

what you clearly fail to understand is that the terrorist have been killing US around the world for the last 20 years and not until they hit us on our own soil did we finally start to face the problem. They hate US for the freedoms we have that are now allowed in their Mulsim society and our helping Isreal who they want exterminated. they have basically hated us forever.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

[jigman 2003]

North Alabama, your last statement is definitely one to make a person think. I certainly wish that the US could stop being the world's policmen. It would be nice if we spent the billions we're spending in Iraq on addressing our own issues here at home.

[Destroyer]

To Whit: Is it hard to talk when your brain is the size of a walnut?

....you say the U.S. is the world leader, why, because you want to kill anyone who thinks otherwise...because you pump trillions into the military and use it to bully the rest of the world...or is it to peacekeep....nope its to have everyone doing just what you would like them to do.
The world does not need a designated "leader country" That's what Germany wanted to do and you (apparently without any help) defeated that country that wanted to take over the world. And now look, you are trying to do the same and some other countries don't like it. If Russia or China or any other country for that matter tried to tell you proud american what to do and how to do it and do it now what would you do? You'd get all your buddies and round up some guns (should't be hard to find) and hide out not go down without a fight...and curse the leader of this country who thought he knew what's best for a country he doesn't even live in.
If the U.S. government and its people were more quiet and unassuming do you think there would be any terrorist attacks against your country? Why don't we in Canada get attacked? Now you say you won't change your way of life or your attitudes so you must accept your fate....which is the potential for futher attacks from those you rub the wrong way. Is that better than simply toning down the arrogant we are the best and have to rule the world attitude? It seems simple enough to me.
I don't know why i even try, this won't sink into your skull and likely never will. Hopefully as the next generations grow up in your country they will form differnt opinions, that is of course unless people like you keep telling them that "we are the best country in the world son, everyone is just jealous of our freedoms" pardon me while i puke!! Lying to a child is pretty low. And if you believe that statement to be true then boy you have no clue whatsoever.

To Trailerguy:

You may fell that we don't have the best track record as far as our prime ministers go but at least they haven't been responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in wars that have no purpose or end.

Innocent men and women in the military are dying(for no reason), your economy is terrible, no health care, need i go on. Anyone who is ok with what has happended under the Bush administration either has no brain, doesn't care, or doesn't know.

This whole thread makes me angry so i better not post anymore about this.


Glen

[FlyBoy]

Why don't you go to a Canadian walleye website?

Oh that's right, we lead in that catagory too.

Register or go away.

Here I come bone yard!
(I can't believe this has made it this long already!)


-John