Remaking GM

[wagon]

This is only the end of the beginning, but it's a promising one.

General Motors Corp.'s buyout deal with bankrupt Delphi Corp. and the United Auto Workers is a big step toward solving its perilous Delphi conundrum and averting a strike that could kill Delphi at home, gut the union and tip the world's largest automaker into bankruptcy.

The mega-buyout, the richest and largest in GM's 98-year history, also is the latest in a series of moves over the past year showing that this widely maligned automaker and its CEO, Rick Wagoner, really are methodically remaking the North American business. They have no choice.

There will be tens of thousands fewer hourly union jobs and fewer assembly plants because GM doesn't need them. There will be fewer salaried jobs with less generous benefits and fewer American communities with a strong GM presence. And the chances that there will be a viable, if smaller, GM five years from now are better -- not worse -- than just a few days ago.

This poster child of automotive ineptitude, if the conventional wisdom is any guide, is doing anything but marking time as its shares trade sideways, its credit rating sinks deeper into the junkyard and predictions of bankruptcy and executive house-cleaning grow stronger with each new accounting flap or earnings restatement, no matter how minor.

Consider:

GM rejiggered its product portfolio and turbocharged the launch of its full-size SUVs, mostly to the derision of outsiders looking in. But the Chevy Tahoe and its siblings are proving hot enough with consumers to already warrant a production increase.

GM sold interests in two foreign alliances -- Japan's Fuji Heavy Industries and Suzuki -- that formed a cornerstone of its globalization strategy, even as it sold more cars and trucks worldwide last year than ever before. For the first time, it sold more vehicles outside the United States than inside.

GM agreed to shop a majority stake in its profitable finance arm, GMAC, to would-be buyers; crafted a landmark health care deal with the UAW last fall; radically cut benefits for salaried workers and retirees; announced the closure of 12 facilities and a plan to cut its hourly work force by one-third; and has now reached a sweeping buyout deal with Delphi and the UAW.

Not bad for a bureaucracy derided as congenitally incompetent, unable to change or grasp how quickly the world is moving away from it. These look as much like the actions of a distressed company selling everything that isn't nailed down as they do a stressed company doing what it should have done long ago to fix the business.

It's the sum of the parts

If this works -- and we don't know yet, with certainty, that it will -- it doesn't matter what the motivation was, only that a complex strategy succeeded. Just asking, but might this calm, linear and deliberate execution, done so far without a major labor confrontation, suggest a method to GM's madness?

Maybe. The reality of complex restructurings like those GM and rival Ford Motor Co. are undertaking is that no single event, no widely anticipated announcement and -- gasp! -- no single car or truck spells redemption. Comebacks in the auto biz, at least, are the sum of a lot of parts and, in GM's case, the parts are beginning to pile up.

No, this isn't to say that GM's out of the woods, to borrow the old cliché. Or that Chairman Rick Wagoner's job is "safe." Or that some directors won't panic at the next piece of bad news and pull the trigger inside the boardroom.

Nor is this to say that director Jerry York, agent for billionaire GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian, won't engineer a boardroom coup. Or that gas prices won't soar to $4 a gallon because of a terrorist attack or more hurricanes and stay there, imperiling the whole industry. Or that the UAW and Delphi won't crash and burn later this year (the Wall Street fear du jour), engulfing GM in the process.

But if the bond market doesn't see some good news in this move, it doesn't want to see any. The deal likely will pare tens of thousands from the payrolls of GM and Delphi; for GM, the savings could be as much as $50,000 per person in the first year, and more thereafter. Do the math -- even for GM, that's real money.

Landing the big one

Still, this three-way voluntary retirement deal is merely the prelude to what could be Detroit's Big Bang.

The next one will be bigger, tougher and more wrenching for all sides because they won't be giving away money to go away. They'll be taking money away to stay and do the same work for fewer dollars per hour in a post-bankruptcy Delphi. Big difference.

Assuming Delphi and UAW bargainers can't reach a concessionary deal by next Thursday, Delphi likely will make good on its promise to ask a bankruptcy judge the next day to void its union contracts. The parts giant said as much Wednesday.

A clock is ticking for all sides. Nothing their leaders say -- short of "we've got this fixed and here's how" -- will end the countdown to a) a UAW strike this summer against Delphi that shuts down GM and leads to b) a GM bankruptcy that half of Wall Street thinks is likely or c) a GM management shakeup that slakes an intensifying thirst for change but doesn't guarantee success.

There's already a template out there for how the union's lower-cost deal with Delphi might look. What remains is finding a way -- with or without the help of GM -- to cushion the blow for the Delphi workers who can't afford to leave.

Two years ago, the UAW detailed an agreement for new Delphi hires that recognized the market rate for union jobs at major suppliers operating in the United States. The union said new workers would start at $14 an hour, would see their pay grow to as much as $18.50 an hour and would contribute to a 401(k) retirement plan, instead of receiving traditional pensions.

Replicating that deal for veteran Delphi people accustomed to richer pay and benefits won't be easy, clean or identical for Delphi or UAW bargainers, likely to face member backlash amid a coming leadership shakeup at their convention in June.

Despite Wednesday's buyout plans, a strike still is distinctly possible. But the model is out there, and these sides are nothing if not creatures of habit.

[great]

Great start, now lets get the global economy in some sort of check, as in level the playing field. This move sheds some excess weight from the life raft to keep afloat for another day, but until there is direction established to get to shore, and a slow down in the waves, of uninhibited imports from cheap 3rd world labor if you will, they might just make it. Just hope they don't end up on a desserted island, as in their customer base won't be there anymore, have to many lower cost options to buy, or inevitably able to afford them anyway (the friends and family of future $10 / hr employees).

[MN_Moose]

Should you have acknowledged that this was written by Detroit News staff? (© Copyright 2006 The Detroit News. All rights reserved.) Just asking???

[OK]

What they didn't tell you was if you DON'T have 30 years with GM, your buyout DOES NOT INCLUDE healthcare insurance. All this lump sum garbage is subject to taxes and a check of 140,000 will get you 90,000 after taxes. Did you think all this money was NOT subject to taxes?...think again GM/Delphi workers.

Do you think GM wants to pay you 3000 per month PLUS your healthcare if you don't have a 30 years senority? That is NOt the way the program works folks.

Ok, If you are 50 years old and have 30 years in at GM BUT you have kids in high school or college, still have mortgage and toy payments and your monthly GM/ Delphi income is 5000.00 or more per month. HOW IN HADES IS a drop to 3000.00 per month A GOOD DEAL????????????????????? The papers just here in Michigan reported that a gal with 28.5 years at DELPHI can't make it on a retirement pension of 2850 per month with 1 kid in high school and another in college even WITH health care provided. She and MANY other like her are financially screwed BIGTIME with this plan and also what happens in the future.

Does anybody here know what it costs for a private health care insurancepolicy equivalant to what GM and Delphi employees have employer provided NOW?????????

Try a minimum of 2500.00 per month and up for a family of 4. If you still have a house payment and have kids in high school or college, you are going to be in a WORLD of HURT with this GM/Delphi buyout garbage. After Delphi goes through bancruptcy and GM gets through with 2007 labor negociations, the remaining GM employees will be hurting BIGTIME. The worst place you can be right now is have less than 30 years seniority while paying for a kid(s) BIGtime COllege bill plus a house and toy payments and be 50 years old.

This is NOT a voluntary program GM/Delphi has offered folks. You have 52 days +/- to make decision one way or another. IT is also a forgone conclusion that all GM skilled and unskilled workers have seen the last days of 27-34.00 per hour plus 30 and OUT plus the UAW welfare program called the Jobs Bank AFTER the 2007 UAW labor agreement expires. The UAW knows it and that is why they are jumping all over this buyout program because they know after 2007 there is going to be many causalities for the remaining employees that couldn't and/or /wouldn't take what is on the table NOW!!!!!

Did the papers tell everyone that the Delphi flowback to GM people are going to be FORCED to go to ANY available location GM has a job opening????? Nope....they never told you that did they?
Up until now they couldn't force anybody to take a job far from you current plant. Now, If you live in Michigan and you flow back to GM you will have to uproot your family and sell your house to take ANY job GM has to offer.

By the way, Where is GM getting all this "goodtime" Santa Clause $$$$$?????? If GM thinks it is going sell me its OVERPRICED GM products to finance this lottery windfall to its employees, GM better re-think its monetary strategy because I'm Going TOYOTA and I will NEVER consider a GM product ever again. I won't finance the UAW monetary GOODTIME vacation while I still have to work.

The GM honchos have a name for me......Disenfranchised customer. That is why GM owns less than 30% of the market and is why they are in the situation they are now. Poor products over the last 30 years and better products by foreign competition is the problem.

By the way.......how many people here could EVER draw 3000 per month on their current employers's pension program fully funded by their employer? That is a 36,000 per year UAW PENSION WITHOUT working at GM/Delphi. The average working income in the U.S. today is less than 30K. Do you want to buy a product the is priced to include paying UAW RETIRED people 36,000 per year PLUS healthcare when YOU can't even come close to make that WORKING???????

Think about it before you sign the papers for a 5 year loan for you next GM vehicle. When your GM car or truck is falling apart at less than 100k miles, think of the UAW people enjoying YOUR hard earned dollar while YOu slave your life away. Personally, I'm fed up GM's crap overpriced products and an arrogant pompous UAW "gimme mo mony" attitude.

[Sickofit]

Nobody cares. No such thing as an American made car.
It's about time this mess gets straightened out, it's been
nothing but a union vs. management pissing match for
too long. Let the people that know how to build good cars,
make a profit, and pay their people a decent wage take
care of my transportation needs. Toyota, made in America.
We don't need G.M. any longer.
P.S. Guess who taught the Japanese their business plan?
Answer: Henry Ford

[HF]

LOL you just said there are no american made cars then you say your toyota is american made!

where is your brain, man

[Sickofit]

I was being facetious. :stick:

[Sunshine]

You said:
Ok, If you are 50 years old and have 30 years in at GM BUT you have kids in high school or college, still have mortgage and toy payments and your monthly GM/ Delphi income is 5000.00 or more per month. HOW IN HADES IS a drop to 3000.00 per month A GOOD DEAL????????????????????? The papers just here in Michigan reported that a gal with 28.5 years at DELPHI can't make it on a retirement pension of 2850 per month with 1 kid in high school and another in college even WITH health care provided. She and MANY other like her are financially screwed BIGTIME with this plan and also what happens in the future.

I say:
This means that you are making $60,000 per year and they will give you $36,000 per year if you retire with health care provided. If the $36,000 was forever, I’d take it and run very fast. I would then look for another job that would pay me $24,000 a year. I’d be making the same money and be guaranteed the retirement income. I would think it would be very easy to find a new job that would pay me $12.50 an hour. That’s all I would need to break even. Heck, I’d look for a part time job and semi-retire. What am I missing here? Or what concept are you missing here?

[ArtCO_unlogged]

Henry Ford??? Correct me if I am wrong. The Japanese business methods were taught by Mr. Demming..

Art

[Sickofit]

You are wrong, and you have been corrected.
Henry Ford was the major innovator of lean
manufacturing, before it was labeled as such.
The japanese studied, embraced and improved
upon those concepts. They are using those concepts
today, to kick the arses of the "Big 3".
Lean Manufacturing is Toyotas Business plan and
their religion!

[six sigma]

You are correct!

A better foreign education has equaled a better and lower cost product with great monetary rewards.

[six sigma]

Much of the credit for Japan's flight to quality and the making of its world-class reputation goes to quality guru W. Edwards Deming. Deming urged companies to concentrate on constant improvements, improved efficiency and doing it right the first time. Deming was a professor of statistics at New York University when he was invited to Japan in 1950 to run a seminar for business leaders. Since the 1930s, Deming was interested in using statistics as a tool to achieve better quality control. Essentially, his idea was to record the number of product defects, analyze why they happened, institute changes, then record how much quality improved, and to keep refining the process until it is done right.

Deming owes at least part of his legendary status in Japan to a professor named Genichi Taguchi, Japan's home-grown quality management expert, who credited many of the American's ideas for his so-called Taguchi method. Taguchi and others would go on to influence a generation of Japanese engineers who would become the backbone of the nation's growing manufacturing prowess.

"I'm very impressed by the way the Japanese admire [Deming]," said Gregory Clark, president of Japan's Tama University. "They keep on talking about him as if he's a god."

Scholars note that Japan was also receptive to Deming at a time when America was not, in part because Deming's ideas dovetailed with many of Japan's own traditions. Japan had long held hard work and quality craftsmanship as important virtues, and its technology even during the war surprised many Americans. Deming preached that companies must treat workers as associates, not hired hands, and he blamed management if workers were not motivated to work well.

[sickofit]

Lean Manufacturing started as the Toyota Production System (TPS), developed by the Toyoda (now Toyota) Motor Car Company. Toyoda started by the manufacturing of looms for manufacturing cloth, then branched into bicycles before WWII.

In time, Toyoda (now Toyota) started to manufacture engines, small delivery vehicles, trucks, and cars. Poor management decisions almost put the company into bankruptcy. Losing face, the Sr. Management resigned, and/or changed their ways. They changed the name of the company (Toyoda to Toyota), granted workers life-long employment, and went on an aggressive improvement program to try and work their way back from near oblivion. The motivations for TPS were now established. Soon the tools and techniques started to emerge that eased the frustrations with the old, inefficient ways, and allowed Toyota to achieve its TPS goals.

Toyota's engineers looked to Henry Ford (inventor of the assembly line), Taylor (inventor of Modern Management techniques and Industrial Engineering), and Dr. W. Edwards Deming (Father of Modern Quality Management). Based on these early beginnings, the techniques were refined, honed, and improved in all areas.

[wagon]

First pain, then gain
Friday, March 24, 2006
* E-mail this

Michigan, GM likely to be stronger after buyouts
Nick Bunkley and Sharon Terlep / The Detroit News

Buyout packages being offered to workers at General Motors Corp. and Delphi Corp. could result in the elimination of thousands of Michigan jobs, but economists say the state ultimately should benefit from the companies' deal this week with the United Auto Workers.

Local retailers could see a short-term boost if workers who take lump-sum payments of between $35,000 and $140,000 spend a portion of that money. For employees who were already planning to quit after at least 30 years on the job, the incentives are an unexpected windfall on top of regular retirement benefits.

On the downside, the payouts could prompt some retiring workers to flee Michigan's sour economy and start over elsewhere. Many GM and Delphi employees started their jobs right out of high school and aren't ready to stop working in their late 40s or early 50s.

Those who stay put could further strain Metro Detroit's job market, increasing the competition for already elusive jobs.

But in the long run, experts say, the buyouts should help GM and Delphi become stronger, which is unquestionably positive for a state whose fortunes are so closely tied to the auto industry.

"This deal gives GM a better shot at returning to profitability and generating bonuses for line workers and their salaried workers," said Dana Johnson, chief economist at Detroit-based Comerica Bank. "What we should all be rooting for, no matter where we work, is that the Michigan-based auto sector becomes more competitive and more profitable."

Together, GM and Delphi employ nearly 50,000 in Michigan. Although the companies have said they don't know how many of their workers here will accept the incentives, it's almost certain to be in the thousands. The loss of those jobs is another jolt for a state that lost 11 percent of its industrial work force between 2001 and 2005, according to the Michigan Manufacturers Directory.

It also solidifies public perception that the state has a dim future. Three out of four voters polled recently by Lansing-based Marketing Resource Group said Michigan is headed in the wrong direction, and state Republicans claim Michigan is mired in a "single-state recession."

GM's and Delphi's plans to close plants and cut jobs, which come as no surprise, will dent the state's economy, but the buyout offers to encourage voluntary departures will soften the blow.

"These are job cuts, but they're happening in a rather humane way compared to what could have occurred," Johnson said. "They were going to happen anyway. Now those people have more of a cushion with which to make adjustments in their lives."

Michigan could take a hit if many of the workers who accept the incentives feel like Cece Miller, a Delphi production worker in Flint with nearly 26 years on the job. Miller is eager to leave the state, although she's not sure whether any buyout she might get would be enough to make a move.

"I want to retire and go to Arizona or Nevada where we vacation," she said.

Michigan already is notorious for its declining population as workers seek financial stability in more prosperous areas such as Chicago or New York. Michigan's seasonally adjusted unemployment rate rose in February to 6.6 percent, well above the national average of 4.8 percent.

Those who stay in the state after graduating from college or losing their job often spend months searching for work. State officials fear that an exodus of factory workers who are young enough to begin a new career will only add to their woes.

But some jobless workers worry about a flood of people looking for work.

"There's going to be a trickle-down effect," said Debra Brown of Detroit, who visited a job fair Thursday in Southfield. She was laid off in 2001 from a job doing logistics and human resources. Though she has no connection to the auto industry, Brown worries about what GM's downsizing will mean to the region's already-strained job market. "The more people we have out of work out there, the more people will be looking for jobs."

At the same time, economist Ilhan Geckil with the Anderson Economic Group in East Lansing said the buyouts could open the door for unemployed Michiganians to get jobs with GM and Delphi, albeit for lower wages and less generous benefits than the people they replaced.

"Those people are in the labor market and looking for a job but haven't been able to find one," Geckil said. "If I look at the big picture, it's a good thing for the Michigan economy and the auto industry overall."

You can reach Nick Bunkley at (313) 222-2293 or nbunkley@detnews.com.

[OK]

60K....are you nuts? An unskilled line worker averages 78K per year. The 40 hour work week is non existant at the Big 3 automakers.

These people don't have the skills to apply for a 12.50 per hour job if there were any available. Plus, when employers see that past work experience includes working for a long periods of time at GM as an unskilled UAW person,....the application goes straight into the garbage can. These UAW people and their attitudes have earned them an unsavory reputation as whiners, buffoons, and other arrogant lazy malcontents that no employer wants or should have to deal with.

[REW]

The pain of GM and its current employees, is being shared by corporations across America as the reality of the Global economy comes true.

The reality of the global economy is that corporations take jobs - any where in the world, where the quality job can be done for the fewest dollars.
First it was America, Then canada, Then Mexico, Then Japan, Then Taiwan, Then China - now other countries in the middle east, russia and Africa.

The logical decisons that board rooms around the world are making is that in order to survive the global realites of todays world, things must be manufactures as good as possible, as fast as possible and as cheap as possible - not nesessiarily in that order.

Why, for example - would a responsible board chairman pay a union worker in detroit - $62 an hour with benefits - when the same exact job can be done in China for $6 per hour? It doesn't make sense to do that from a corporate level.

The same thing is also happening in my computer industry. American programmers have an average annual salary of $80,000 per year.
The average salary in india is $36,000; the average salary in Hungary is $12,000; and the average salary in China is $9,500.

So, how can my board chairman keep the jobs here in the US - when the :same code???: is being generated in another location for 1/10th the cost. Of course, arguments are made that it is not the same code, the time is not the same etc. However, these folks are very intelligent. They may not be quite as quick today with their code generation, but they lear very quickly. So, if they aren't quite as quick today, they will be soon. So, our and other corp. are paying to educate these new "stars" of the computer labor force of tomorrow - at the expense of our high priced american jobs.

The world is changing and we had better hop on the train, or we will get run over.

---------
We talk about St. Croix and Loomis rods. Great rods, that are still made here in america - mostly.
I was over at one of the box stores today - looking at all of their new spring rods. I expect that every one of them has been imported from another country. I was also looking at the new reels.
I have to be honest and say that I saw several rods that were under $40 - that appeared to be very sensitive, had exactly the right action for the job and were very nicely constructed. Are they as good as a similar rated St. Croix or Loomis rod? I have to say - I don''t know. Will one of these imported rods for $40? You bet, and many many folks out there will happily buy the $40 rod before ever thinking about buying the $200 rod from one of the other rod companies.

I also looked at several of the new 2006 bait casting and spinning reels of various manufacturers. I was very suprised at the evident quality of some of the reels.
In particular, I noted one reel that had a selling price of $10. It was a nice spinning reel, with 4 ball bearings, non slip clutch and a reasonably good drag system. The weight was also similar to some of the other $100 reels. Was this $10 reel as good as the $100 reel. No, but I have to admit - it wasn't bad, and it would certainly catch a bunch of fish for a lot of folks.

More and more folks are expecting pretty good quality for a very modest price. These imported products are meeting that need. Is it made in america? NO. Is it as good as made in america? In some cases - yes, and in some cases NO. However, the quality is getting better and better each day but the prices are staying low, due to the much cheaper cost of labor.

The grim reality of today's economy is that for many folks in america - they are going to suffer a severe reduction in their earning capacity, and their standard of living is going to suffer.

Conversely, folks in other parts of the world are going to have an ever increasing wage and an ever increasing standard of living, until the world wide labor market tends to equalize across all global barriers. At that time, the corporations of the world will be able to locate their factories at will with similar costs for labor, and the laborers will have similar standards of living.

The day is quicking approaching that America with only 10% of the world's population - ceast to consume 25% of the world's natural resources. The cold economic facts will be that America simply won't be able to afford the price. Conversely, the other parts of the world who now consume less of the worlds resources - will be in a position to consume their share.

Think ahead and figure out how you are going to deal with the realities of today and tomorrow.

Take care
REW

[Mostlymuskies]

Where GM and the rest of the Auto Industry is headed is to consessions we had to give up 10 years ago at DuPont.We started paying a share of our Health Care and it gradualy worked to where we are now paying 50% of the cost,with less coverage on top of that.Even the Retirees have to pickup 50% and get only the Low Quality Health Plan as well.We started getting our Annual Raise cutback to a little over 1.3 %.now we don't even get a raise at all.Then came the Lower Pay Scale for some jobs as well.We have been loosing our Benefits one by one for the last 15 years.They even changed the formulas around on the Retirement Pension Plan so you can't make as much as you planned.Yes,we are lucky if we will see $2500 a month before taxes and health car are subtracted and that is with Income Averageing,Age 58 with at least 27 years.After Medical and Taxes we might have $450 left a week.

[GM 2004 TRUCK]

The metal is so thin on the bed of this truck if you set say a 5 gallon palstic bucket of drywall mud on the edge of the bed it will make a crease in it . If you put your knee on the edge of the bed it will put a dent in it . The dash is peeling the 4 wheel drive sounds like it is going to fall out but it has sounded like this since day one,they said that is normal . The transmission comes out of gear when you are doing 70 or 7 mph it still says it is in gear but it won't go . The anti lock brakes come on while you are stopping if you hit a bump at the same time and they will not stop you once they come on . My nephews silver 2004 truck had all of the above problems PLUS the whole body was rusting due to the global warming they say , he sold his after the headliner fell down the 3rd time . JUNK JUNK JUNK . If it wasn't for the Jap cars USA cars still would be rusting apart before your 5 year loan was up and they would never ever of made one that could go 100,000 miles . The only reason I buy GM is my dad gets GM discount he worked for 30 years at GM and NEVER owned one NEVER to this day has he owned a GM made car or truck . JUNK JUNK JUNK There is no doubt in my mind that it is all due to upper management and the unions . Honda and the other JAP companies are using all American workers and their stuff is lasting . The only thing different is who is running the show .

[fourize]

>These people don't have the skills to apply for a 12.50 per
>hour job if there were any available. Plus, when employers see
>that past work experience includes working for a long periods
>of time at GM as an unskilled UAW person,....the application
>goes straight into the garbage can. These UAW people and their
>attitudes have earned them an unsavory reputation as whiners,
>buffoons, and other arrogant lazy malcontents that no employer
>wants or should have to deal with.


I just happen to be "one of those people". Until you've worked on the assembly line, like I have for 29 years, you have no idea what you are talking about. You wouldn't last 5 minutes. As for the name calling, it just shows your low level of intellegence and just how misinformed you really are. So sad.

[ebijack]

and yet another one posts under a "no-name"
wow..don't ever buy a Gm product again..go buy a japanese one..you, your nephew and your dad.. even though GM put bread on your dad's families table for 30 yrs it's something to know he wouldn't support the company that sustained his family for that many years and he still had a job working for them.. yes we all get paid for our work, but it still takes support to keep any company in business. and it isn't likely any company putting out thousands of units of product never makes a bad one... even popcicle sticks have bad ones in the bunch...

[kliph]

>60K....are you nuts? An unskilled line worker averages 78K
>per year. The 40 hour work week is non existant at the Big 3
>automakers.
>
>These people don't have the skills to apply for a 12.50 per
>hour job if there were any available. Plus, when employers see
>that past work experience includes working for a long periods
>of time at GM as an unskilled UAW person,....the application
>goes straight into the garbage can. These UAW people and their
>attitudes have earned them an unsavory reputation as whiners,
>buffoons, and other arrogant lazy malcontents that no employer
>wants or should have to deal with.

I find it amazing that it`s down to worker aganst worker.
I was a tool and die maker for GM for 15 years before we were
sold to what is now American Axle. I had to have eight(8) years
experience to get the job at GM. How many years of training does
it it take to be a teacher or a lawyer? I thought it was my obligation
to me and and my family to get the highest paying job in my field.
And we don`t cost the tax payer anything.
Not everyone workers on the line. And many that do work the line
are very hard workers.
Remember the workers don`t design the cars.

[Disgusted]

You LAZY hypocrite. You say your dad worked at GM for 30 years and never bought a GM product. Sounds like your LAZY A** dad and your whole LEECH family was on the GM welfare program for about 29 more years than what he was worth. People like you make me want to vomit.

[Tom S.]

You slimy piece of hippo dung !!! You know not of what you speak. You must be related to that other scumbag whose father worked for GM for 30 years and never owned one.

[Democrat UL]

America doesn't have 10% of the world's population, we have 5%, but the 25% consumption figure is correct.

As high-paying U.S. jobs continue to disappear, the market for Rangers and Lunds has to shrink. People who make $6 an hour can't buy $50,000 boats.

[Mostlymuskies]

I'm a Republican and I even believe in Unions,without Unions we would not have safe working conditions,any medical insurance at all and lower wages then they are tring to get us to now!

[Right on]

Any investment banking person will confirm that unions are the reason why America can't compete with the rest of the world. Teacher unions have dumbed down our students and unions like the uaw are the reason why car companies can't survive. This uaw thing is a good thing for the future of America-it will finally give good people like our President Bush the power he needs to pass a law ridding America of all unions. I don't support arresting union members, most of them are being duped by the union bosses. Without unions like uaw, America will be #1 again.

[sad]

Thats a VERY sad future you paint for the peolple of the US REW!!

[EIB Network]

>Union membership should be outlawed in America. There are
>AMERICANS, and there are UNION MEMBERS, but there are no UNION
>MEMBERS who are true patriotic AMERICANS.

SOunds like good ole' RUsh "Oxy Cotin" Limbaugh, the $100 MIllion dollar man from the EIB (EXPIERIMENT IN BRAINWASHING) Network has chimed in on WC. Let me guess, all low life middle class workers should go to work for 10 bucks an hour and that is going to make this country better?

NOt everyone is a sit on their can blow hard sharehold, some of us were brought up to work hard to get ahead. The union leveled the playing field and balanced out the take, between the workers who made the products to sell and the management and more recently shareholders who in the case of the share holders got to get rich off someone elses back.

[Ok]

I did work on the GM engine line lifting 800-1000 V8 crankshafts per shift in 1977-79. I was smart enough to get a degree and get out of the stupid manmade Hades rife with people thatr didn't have the brains to grab their hinnies. You wouldn't last 3 hours in the job I did. I wish I had a nickel for every defective crankshaft that was scored or under tolerance that went into some smucks truck that paid good money for a screwed up product.

[sky jumper]

>Any investment banking person will confirm that unions are
>the reason why America can't compete with the rest of the
>world. Teacher unions have dumbed down our students and unions
>like the uaw are the reason why car companies can't survive.
>This uaw thing is a good thing for the future of America-it
>will finally give good people like our President Bush the
>power he needs to pass a law ridding America of all unions. I
>don't support arresting union members, most of them are being
>duped by the union bosses. Without unions like uaw, America
>will be #1 again.

Any AMerican with an ounce of common sense, will say it was the banking and investment firms that pushed business in this country to get more profitable by any means possible. Just so they on commish from their no face global clientele can proft off the backs of others more effectively.

So the not so supergenius management of the day got out the P&L sheet and said ahaa, cut wages and benefits. Better yet exploit 3rd world country as a labor pool we'll transfer the jobs over there and ship product to here.

FUnny thing is our (middle class) pain is now, yours will come later. Better get yourself a parachute, because this monetary euphoria won't last and when the bottom falls out, there will plenty of investment banker types leaping from the upper stories....hahahahaha!!!!

WHen that day comes, don't ever dare ask why or shift the blame...

[Ok]

Let's talk about the skilled trades people namely the tool and die makers. Would you care to comment how GM's tool and die makers work very little for the first 40 hours so management is forced to schedule overtime to get done what should have been done in the first 40 hours. A common practice that has been defended by the UAW for a billion years so the overtime costs go through the roof. The most worthless skilled trades job at GM today is a Millright. The guy is lucky to do 15 minutes of work per day and most of what he does was stolen from the machine repair people. I wouldn't give you nickel for the skills of a GM or Ford millright. A tool and die maker that got his journeymans's card at GM doesn't have the skills to survive on the outside. His tool and die skills with 10 years experience would barely qualify with the skills obtained by a 3 year apprentice working in the real NON UAW world. The best skilled trades people at GM and Ford are skilled trades people that got their journeyman's card and skills BEFORE they hired into GM or Ford because they sure won't get those skills by working at FOrd Or GM.

[OK]

If what you say is true then how come a lazy union member is paid the same as a union memebr that want to do an honest 8 hours work?

Unionism is nothing but socialism wearing a skirt. The union bosses are only bosses because they want to do little work and make the BIG money while being a "paid" mouth.

[OK]

People with $20.00 an hour jobs can't do it either and still pay the mortage, heat, lights, gas and grocery bill.

[Skirt]

>If what you say is true then how come a lazy union member is
>paid the same as a union memebr that want to do an honest 8
>hours work?
>
>Unionism is nothing but socialism wearing a skirt. The union
>bosses are only bosses because they want to do little work and
>make the BIG money while being a "paid" mouth.


Speaking of a Skirt, I think some of these posts are being made by Dave B. the bubble boy, you know the be all and end of investment banking, wearing well you know some sort of an alias skirt....hahahahaha!

Take your elevator down a few levels and actually go work in a place where things are produced, before your so quick to jump on knowing it all.

[kliph]

>Let's talk about the skilled trades people namely the tool
>and die makers. Would you care to comment how GM's tool and
>die makers work very little for the first 40 hours so
>management is forced to schedule overtime to get done what
>should have been done in the first 40 hours. A common practice
>that has been defended by the UAW for a billion years so the
>overtime costs go through the roof. The most worthless skilled
>trades job at GM today is a Millright. The guy is lucky to do
>15 minutes of work per day and most of what he does was stolen
>from the machine repair people. I wouldn't give you nickel
>for the skills of a GM or Ford millright. A tool and die maker
>that got his journeymans's card at GM doesn't have the skills
>to survive on the outside. His tool and die skills with 10
>years experience would barely qualify with the skills obtained
>by a 3 year apprentice working in the real NON UAW world. The
>best skilled trades people at GM and Ford are skilled trades
>people that got their journeyman's card and skills BEFORE they
>hired into GM or Ford because they sure won't get those skills
>by working at FOrd Or GM.

Why are you so angry? It sounds like you know somone who is a Millwright. And he makes more money than you. My union is not the UAW.
Every person in the shop was a journeyman tool and die maker before
he started at GM. And we haven`t worked overtime in two years now.
BTW, i`m a union member and I vote Republican.

[fourize]

>I did work on the GM engine line lifting 800-1000 V8
>crankshafts per shift in 1977-79. I was smart enough to get a
>degree and get out of the stupid manmade Hades rife with
>people thatr didn't have the brains to grab their hinnies. You
>wouldn't last 3 hours in the job I did. I wish I had a nickel
>for every defective crankshaft that was scored or under
>tolerance that went into some smucks truck that paid good
>money for a screwed up product.

I apoligize then. You did not state in your original post that you were once "one of us". I go to work everyday and do the best job and build the best quality car that I possibly can, as do my other UAW brothers and sisters...people that I highly respect. Maybe it's a good thing you did leave...you sound too much like management.