WC Agenda

[Leftie]

Why is it that its OK to rip unions, Bill Clinton, etc... on this site, but any post that could be the least bit negative to the current administration gets dusted?

[Golden]

It's not OK to rip unions, Clinton or anyone.

If it's political, it gets nuked.

If it's bashing, it gets nuked.

We might miss some things since we are not perfect but if we see anything that is out of line, we nuke it.

If you have a different agenda... maybe this isn't the place to post it.

Scott

[Leftie]

Then why were the posts ripping union members at GM and union members in general allowed to stay? Threads the rip Bill Clinton are allowed to stay. Just wondering why?

[Golden]

To my knowledge, there are not any posts online that are "ripping" GM or Clinton.

Can you point one out?

If you have some political message you are trying to get through "leftie"...this isn't the place.

[FreeByrd]

Leftie,
If there is a post you have an issue with there is a very simple thing you can do - HIT THE ALERT BUTTON - this brings up a window where you email your concern / issue to all the moderators. Should take about 30 seconds of your time.

Honestly I don't normally read the "GM / Union / Gas Price - pick a topic to complan about type posts" unless someone hits the alert button. I come to Walleye Central to read and make posts ABOUT WALLEYE FISHING and normally only read those type of posts if ALERTED.

Not sure if the alert feature works if you aren't logged in / registered or not?

Steve Carlson
330 283 2155 wireless
steve199132@yahoo.com

[KP]

Sorry Golden, but I unfortunately agree with un-registered Leftie. Political subjects do eventually get dusted when they get nasty. But the rules of nasty only seems to extend to those posts that bash our current administration. I admit I'm guilty as sin when it comes to that subject. But it's hard to sit and watch what I can only call acceptable, non-conservative bashing. As soon as a response opposing conservative politics is posted, the subject gets pulled.

I'm sure the moderators have more important things in their lives than policing for the rantings of crazy fishermen, severly infected with cabin fever. Maybe it's just poor timing, but it seems to be the norm.

Respectfully,

[Golden]

I guess I thought we did a good job of policing the boards but it sounds like we need to keep a better eye on things and we will.

Our policy is NO political posts because the lefties and the righties just cannot play nice together and they have proven that over and over and over.

Like Steve said, if you have an issue with something that you see as lopsided ... hit the alert button.

We are not perfect, but I just don't think we are puposely leaving one sided political posts on the boards.

I certainly don't try to push my political persuasion off on anyone and I don't expect others to be allowed to either.

Scott

[FreeByrd]

>Sorry Golden, but I unfortunately agree with un-registered
>Leftie. Political subjects do eventually get dusted when they
>get nasty. But the rules of nasty only seems to extend to
>those posts that bash our current administration. I admit I'm
>guilty as sin when it comes to that subject. But it's hard to
>sit and watch what I can only call acceptable,
>non-conservative bashing. As soon as a response opposing
>conservative politics is posted, the subject gets pulled.
>
>I'm sure the moderators have more important things in their
>lives than policing for the rantings of crazy fishermen,
>severly infected with cabin fever. Maybe it's just poor
>timing, but it seems to be the norm.
>
>Respectfully,

KP -
If you have an issue with a post - HIT THE ALERT BUTTON.

Steve Carlson

[jayjay]

Leftie,

You are right on the money, cerain things are a no-no on this board, I can attest to that with my latest response to your message about the cost of gasoline you posted. I answered you but I got nuked!

[pwrfshn]

I'll jump in the fire...I'm one of the mods that would nuke everything that was remotely controversial because there are the FEW that haven't grown up enough to have a civil discussion about certain topics.

As Steve and Scott have pointed out...if you feel that you are not be catered to as you would like, HIT THE ALERT BUTTON. I am personally working a lot more these days and have less and less time to read all the crap I know I won't like much less read the stuff I like.

It isn't hard, we as moderators do not sit and judge the people that hit the button or secretly discuss what their agenda might be...all we do is get at least one or more opinion and then act accordingly.

Sorry if I sound short, this site means a lot to me personally, it is a refuge from a usually very stressful day, but we ARE NOT PERFECT. Please help, be part of the solution not the problem.

[Golden]

The fact that certain things on this board is a no-no is not in debate here.

Everyone knows certain things are not allowed and if "certain things" are posted they will ALWAYS be deleted.

What is at debate here is whether we are allowing ripping of unions and GM and Bill Clinton etc.. while nuking anything and everything that has to do with this current administration (Bush).

My contention is that we don't treat one political post different than another if we see it... all political posts are nuked..period.

[wheels]

And Jayjay, that is exactly why your response got nuked in the Gas thread. It hit on something political. I don't remember exactly in what way, I believe you said something to the effect that gas was the way it is until the current administration is gone.

"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"

[tbomn]

If you really have the need to talk politics, here is a place to do that, with 100 options from which to choose from:

http://www.rightwingnews.com/special/rank.php

I think this thread is a perfect example of why no political posting is allowed here. When it comes to politics, nobody seems to be able to discuss, it always turns into an arguement, bashing, having to explain meanings, attitudes, feelings, and on and on and on and on.....no one wins....and when it comes to politics, everyone needs to have the last word..:stick:

It makes our job a lot easier if we don't even let it start, but sometimes someone slips something in that is political, then we get blamed for letting something stay. Steve is right, we babysit, because some people just can't follow the rules. Please know that we try to be fair to all posters, but the rules are the rules.......

[karpbuster]

It is a hard job I would imagine and the Mods are doing a great job, IMHO.

If you hit the ALERT Button #1 and #2 Do as my Momma use to say, "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all."

It works for me. Jokes are not always funny, my problem. :)

There are all kinds of internet sites to bash, get political...so I heard - This one is very special and because it is kept clean and fair/unbiased is a refuge as Mexico said.

No agenda here.

karpbuster

[KP]

Knowing that not all of us agree on political issues, I prefer to debate politics with those people that share my interests, are closer to my age, and representatives of the middle class. My feeling is, that demographic can be found here at WC. So I may not agree with an opinion, but at least I'm on more level ground with these individuals expressing their differing opinions.

For the most part, the registered members opinions are those that I value, agree or not. It gets bad when a more extreme opinion is offered from a non-registered response. Maybe it's a member offering a stronger view under guise, or maybe it's someone who does not want to take the time to join our group but has more than enough time to flame someone. I'm sure most will agree, I don't hide with my opinions, popular or not. I do that because we are all able to communicate on a number of issues on this site and know where the thought process is coming from.

I wish we could maintain political debate on this site with our peers as long as your required to reveal yourself. I think the passion of the opinion would still be there but with a measured amount of respect. But I understand the desire to steer away from such issues.

[pwrfshn]

KP,

You make valid points, the problem, and long time debate, is over registration. It is difficult to verify registration even if it occurs...and I have always wanted mandatory registration, but I understand why Scott does not believe it will solve the problems that we have from time to time.

Thanks for your continued support.

[mac]

I agree in part with KP. I like a place where I can find out what other people like me (not like me, wouldn't wish that on anyone), let's say, people who have similir etc's. Mostly what there is to read is from people who are so radical, have their own adenda, are running for office etc. that if I met them in person I wouldn't buy them a beer on free beer night.

Sometimes this site is for me a kind of an oasis in a world gone mad. Please don't sterilize it too much.

[Golden]

OK, what if we put a political forum online and required registered only to post on the forum?

I've tried this in the past without much success because of the amount of time it took to moderate that forum but TBO has volunteered to try it again and if that is something of value I can certainly give it another try.

The difference in the previous attempt would be the "registered only" requirement... that might help things out.

Scott

[Boatnut]

Scott,
I know that there is a "general discussion" area on this board, but, I, Like many others come here to read about fishing and stuff mostly. Yeah there's posts on gas grills , trucks and what not and that's fine. I say keep it way it is...NO political crap at all. hear enough about it on the news.
my 2 cents

[gonfishn95]

I have to agree we do not need a political board, but it does seem some things stay up that should not let say fishing with bluegills in mexico or whereever it was I THOUGHT POLITICAL. But I guess it is in how you perceive it, if you are told to contact your local polititian that makes it political.
and Steve I know your new, But cut the babysitting bull it hurts my feelings.

[gonfishn95]

I have to agree we do not need a political board, but it does seem some things stay up that should not let say fishing with bluegills in mexico or whereever it was I THOUGHT POLITICAL. But I guess it is in how you perceive it, if you are told to contact your local polititian that makes it political.
and Steve I know your new, But cut the babysitting bull it hurts my feelings.

[pwrfshn]

I'm with Mike, but I see the other side...as long as I don't have to see all the posts that will be talking about what is wrong with the world or ever asked to moderate it, I think it is fine.

I just don't want to see it...have to read about it enough for my job...the news is NEVER turned on at our house nor do we get a newspaper, I wouldn't do well in the current events class...too depressing since the media feels that unless the news is sensationalistic they won't have an audience and I see why from what gets people excited here.

[pwrfshn]

I'm with Mike, but I see the other side...as long as I don't have to see all the posts that will be talking about what is wrong with the world or ever asked to moderate it, I think it is fine.

I just don't want to see it...have to read about it enough for my job...the news is NEVER turned on at our house nor do we get a newspaper, I wouldn't do well in the current events class...too depressing since the media feels that unless the news is sensationalistic they won't have an audience and I see why from what gets people excited here.

[pwrfshn]

WC has always allowed posts that may be political but directly impact fishermen.

There were legal changes being made that directly impacted fishing, those have always been fine and for legit reasons...this is a FISHING board.

[pwrfshn]

WC has always allowed posts that may be political but directly impact fishermen.

There were legal changes being made that directly impacted fishing, those have always been fine and for legit reasons...this is a FISHING board.

[mac]

I'm just looking for something from Average Joe. Sometimes he is mad as h*** and that I want to hear so I dont think that I'm the only one out there with a gripe.

If you have a political section, it immediately becomes a target for the hacks from both sides whose job it is to post the party line of the day on sites like that.

[mac]

I'm just looking for something from Average Joe. Sometimes he is mad as h*** and that I want to hear so I dont think that I'm the only one out there with a gripe.

If you have a political section, it immediately becomes a target for the hacks from both sides whose job it is to post the party line of the day on sites like that.

[gonfishn95]

No matter fishing or not it is political, I did notice on a couple of other boards they had to go with to post, you must register, and the more I see and I know Scott kicked this around from time to time and hates the idea, but maybe it would stop the ones who bash and run even tho they do not realize they are easy to find.
I just think NO POLITICS at all, if you look at a lot of post they go from 3 to 6 and 4,5 got dusted, I am writing a book so could all of the moderators send me post they dusted might make a good read.
Come to think of it isn't this post becoming a political one.

[gonfishn95]

No matter fishing or not it is political, I did notice on a couple of other boards they had to go with to post, you must register, and the more I see and I know Scott kicked this around from time to time and hates the idea, but maybe it would stop the ones who bash and run even tho they do not realize they are easy to find.
I just think NO POLITICS at all, if you look at a lot of post they go from 3 to 6 and 4,5 got dusted, I am writing a book so could all of the moderators send me post they dusted might make a good read.
Come to think of it isn't this post becoming a political one.

[Box]

My two cents: I like hearing what other WC'ers have to say about "political" stuff as well as fishing stuff, and I often browse through them a bit, until they get long ;)

I think most of us can discuss in a civil manner, and a test of the "Political" board would be interesting.

But, I also am a firm believer that this site and forum is not a democracy and shouldn't be or be asked to be. I will never complain when something gets dusted, as that is Walleye Central's and its mods' decision. I have no problem. They do a great job. (Even without being a democracy, here is Scott asking for our opinions - I love it!)

As I have said many times before about this, even with some occasional squabbles, WC is the one of the best forums around in many genre's of forums, with the best and most knowledgable people coming to it. I try other fishing forums as well, but they don't have th etraffic or quick responses from the members. I don't want it to change too much, and would hate to see required registration for the mainstream forum sections. Fine for Swap Board and tournies and "political" to require registration, I would just hate to lose the input of some of our great un-registered regulars or guests.

ok, so that was 10 cents ;)
-Box

http://www.walleyecentral.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=103808

[Box]

My two cents: I like hearing what other WC'ers have to say about "political" stuff as well as fishing stuff, and I often browse through them a bit, until they get long ;)

I think most of us can discuss in a civil manner, and a test of the "Political" board would be interesting.

But, I also am a firm believer that this site and forum is not a democracy and shouldn't be or be asked to be. I will never complain when something gets dusted, as that is Walleye Central's and its mods' decision. I have no problem. They do a great job. (Even without being a democracy, here is Scott asking for our opinions - I love it!)

As I have said many times before about this, even with some occasional squabbles, WC is the one of the best forums around in many genre's of forums, with the best and most knowledgable people coming to it. I try other fishing forums as well, but they don't have th etraffic or quick responses from the members. I don't want it to change too much, and would hate to see required registration for the mainstream forum sections. Fine for Swap Board and tournies and "political" to require registration, I would just hate to lose the input of some of our great un-registered regulars or guests.

ok, so that was 10 cents ;)
-Box

http://www.walleyecentral.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=103808

[ArtCo-Unlogged]

My take.. fish, fishing, and fisheries all revolve around "Politic's". I found out first hand last year when Colorado was considering changing reg's. Let me tell you first hand, Politic's come first, then what's good for a fishery second. As you can see, I am now unlogged but I would not mind if one had to register to gain access to this site.

Art

[ArtCo-Unlogged]

My take.. fish, fishing, and fisheries all revolve around "Politic's". I found out first hand last year when Colorado was considering changing reg's. Let me tell you first hand, Politic's come first, then what's good for a fishery second. As you can see, I am now unlogged but I would not mind if one had to register to gain access to this site.

Art

[ebijack]

for me ...any non-member that gets off on any tangent..we should dust it.. i don't till a couple of us agree bout dusting it/sending to boneyard, but it sure seems the non-registered users have been doing more bashing than anyone over the past 10 (?) yrs... and i sure DON'T need/want political stuff here on a walleye fishing board.. way to many other places to have "more than you can handle"

[ebijack]

for me ...any non-member that gets off on any tangent..we should dust it.. i don't till a couple of us agree bout dusting it/sending to boneyard, but it sure seems the non-registered users have been doing more bashing than anyone over the past 10 (?) yrs... and i sure DON'T need/want political stuff here on a walleye fishing board.. way to many other places to have "more than you can handle"

[Leftie]

Scott, Moderators, & Members, I appreciate your candid thoughts here. I, too, enjoy coming to this website to take advantage of the AWESOME collection of information available. Reading threads that go for days bashing union members, teachers(my wife is a teacher), made my wonder why these were allowed to slam on, but mine "counter"-posts, much tamer than these, were always nuked immediately. If the intent really is fairness to all, I'm sure on board. Thanks for the response. :-)

[Leftie]

Scott, Moderators, & Members, I appreciate your candid thoughts here. I, too, enjoy coming to this website to take advantage of the AWESOME collection of information available. Reading threads that go for days bashing union members, teachers(my wife is a teacher), made my wonder why these were allowed to slam on, but mine "counter"-posts, much tamer than these, were always nuked immediately. If the intent really is fairness to all, I'm sure on board. Thanks for the response. :-)

[pwrfshn]

Leftie,

I was out of town from 3/20 until 4/3...and was not on the site.

If those types of posts were not deleted, then it was because nobody alerted them and those of us who can't stand that junk didn't see it.

Again, I invite you to hit that little button in the bottom left corner that says ALERT...that is why it is there.

[pwrfshn]

Leftie,

I was out of town from 3/20 until 4/3...and was not on the site.

If those types of posts were not deleted, then it was because nobody alerted them and those of us who can't stand that junk didn't see it.

Again, I invite you to hit that little button in the bottom left corner that says ALERT...that is why it is there.

[GF]

Why does that button work and not the IP.

[GF]

Why does that button work and not the IP.

[bigfish1965]

My Amsoil question got nuked too. Can we put up an Amsoil forum?
While I'd like the opportunity to discuss political matters, unless is was done under a strict debate format, it would get ugly fairly fast.The room leans to the right pretty heavily.

[bigfish1965]

My Amsoil question got nuked too. Can we put up an Amsoil forum?
While I'd like the opportunity to discuss political matters, unless is was done under a strict debate format, it would get ugly fairly fast.The room leans to the right pretty heavily.

[KP]

I enjoy the political discussion on this board when the subject leads to it. Many subjects that have been posted like "the price of gas", "license fees", "tollway costs", "heating a home", etc. start off as a venting on the issue and then escalates eventually into harsh political opinions.

Lets face it, politics has a lot of effect in our fishing life and every day life itself whether we like it or not. I like seeing what other people have to say on these issues, offering my own warped opinion, see how out of control the subject gets, and move on to the next topic of interest like "gas grills". However, I really have no desire to go directly to a political board where all the loonies and radicals will hang out just to push other peoples buttons. There's plenty of other places for that.

You moderators have the reigns. You do what you see fit. It's all worked pretty darn well so far. You've created an addiction for many of us. Political conspiracy maybe??? I know when I'm taking my opinion too far and few will see what I have to say once word gets out. It might piss me off for a moment, but I'm back fairly quickly to find out everyones opinion on compound miter saws, prop selection, and hot spots.

[KP]

I enjoy the political discussion on this board when the subject leads to it. Many subjects that have been posted like "the price of gas", "license fees", "tollway costs", "heating a home", etc. start off as a venting on the issue and then escalates eventually into harsh political opinions.

Lets face it, politics has a lot of effect in our fishing life and every day life itself whether we like it or not. I like seeing what other people have to say on these issues, offering my own warped opinion, see how out of control the subject gets, and move on to the next topic of interest like "gas grills". However, I really have no desire to go directly to a political board where all the loonies and radicals will hang out just to push other peoples buttons. There's plenty of other places for that.

You moderators have the reigns. You do what you see fit. It's all worked pretty darn well so far. You've created an addiction for many of us. Political conspiracy maybe??? I know when I'm taking my opinion too far and few will see what I have to say once word gets out. It might piss me off for a moment, but I'm back fairly quickly to find out everyones opinion on compound miter saws, prop selection, and hot spots.

[pwrfshn]

Well said...this has been one heck of a day considering...I'm ready to cash in my WC retirment, collect my WC Rolex with embossed walleye with the diamond eyes and call it a day.

[pwrfshn]

Well said...this has been one heck of a day considering...I'm ready to cash in my WC retirment, collect my WC Rolex with embossed walleye with the diamond eyes and call it a day.

[Buckeye]

I got no time for politics right now.....The fish are biting out front. Time to put "Shut up and fish!" into action.


See you out there.

[Buckeye]

I got no time for politics right now.....The fish are biting out front. Time to put "Shut up and fish!" into action.


See you out there.

[jayjay]

Sorry I offended! Just that it irks me when someone compares the cost of water to the cost of gasoline. Members of my family to not have to drink 80 gallons of water per week in order to get to work. They do have to drive though and it is eating out of our/their budget. Besides, like a good samaritan, I was just passing on what was on the news last night. I guess the topic really has to affect you before you can feel the pain.


(swearing is against board policy, thanks for understanding)

[jayjay]

Sorry I offended! Just that it irks me when someone compares the cost of water to the cost of gasoline. Members of my family to not have to drink 80 gallons of water per week in order to get to work. They do have to drive though and it is eating out of our/their budget. Besides, like a good samaritan, I was just passing on what was on the news last night. I guess the topic really has to affect you before you can feel the pain.


(swearing is against board policy, thanks for understanding)

[GF]

Consider this the average person consumes or uses approx 80 gallons of water a day, Now of course that is a statistic. Based on toilet flushes, showers, drinks, ice cubes for those who like it cold, laundry, I think the average household is supposed to use somewhere around 250 gallons a day, So lets all find the right friend and conserve water.

[GF]

Consider this the average person consumes or uses approx 80 gallons of water a day, Now of course that is a statistic. Based on toilet flushes, showers, drinks, ice cubes for those who like it cold, laundry, I think the average household is supposed to use somewhere around 250 gallons a day, So lets all find the right friend and conserve water.

[Juls_OH]

Only moderators can see IP's. The alert button is for everyone to use.

Juls

[Juls_OH]

Only moderators can see IP's. The alert button is for everyone to use.

Juls

[Tom B]

I suspect that one of the reasons the threads bashing unions and such don't get dusted is because noone hits the alert button and moderators don't have the time or inclination to read through the same whiney crap again and again.

There are some types of posts that I never read, if I did, I would probably nuke them all and that is not the way Scott wants moderators to work.

My favorite boards have a policy that politics gets deleted immediately, 1 board will even ban a person for posting politics.

That's just fine with me.

Tom B

[Tom B]

I suspect that one of the reasons the threads bashing unions and such don't get dusted is because noone hits the alert button and moderators don't have the time or inclination to read through the same whiney crap again and again.

There are some types of posts that I never read, if I did, I would probably nuke them all and that is not the way Scott wants moderators to work.

My favorite boards have a policy that politics gets deleted immediately, 1 board will even ban a person for posting politics.

That's just fine with me.

Tom B

[Terroreyes]

I don't think it has much to do with WC or the moderators.

It boils down to the fact that probably over 90% of the WC members are staunch right-wingers who will defend this administration to their death. Of course they're not going to hit the alert button on a Clinton, GM, Union posts, etc. That's up to the 10% minority to do, which obviously didn't happen. If someone in that 10% does hit the alert button, it will probably be dealt with accordingly. Vice-versa also. I the 90% sees something discrediting Bush or a republican, you've got a whole bunch of people hitting the alert button and the mods respond. Plain and simple....... you are out-numbered by the members. No WC agenda on the management's part. The members??....... that's a whole different story.



Visit DOWNRIVER TACKLE in the Walleye Central Directory
http://www.walleyecentral.com/wcdirectory/yellowresult.php?goal=Detail&ckey=47&primaryField=description&category=Bait+%26+Tackle%3A+Manufacturers&textToFind=

[Terroreyes]

I don't think it has much to do with WC or the moderators.

It boils down to the fact that probably over 90% of the WC members are staunch right-wingers who will defend this administration to their death. Of course they're not going to hit the alert button on a Clinton, GM, Union posts, etc. That's up to the 10% minority to do, which obviously didn't happen. If someone in that 10% does hit the alert button, it will probably be dealt with accordingly. Vice-versa also. I the 90% sees something discrediting Bush or a republican, you've got a whole bunch of people hitting the alert button and the mods respond. Plain and simple....... you are out-numbered by the members. No WC agenda on the management's part. The members??....... that's a whole different story.



Visit DOWNRIVER TACKLE in the Walleye Central Directory
http://www.walleyecentral.com/wcdirectory/yellowresult.php?goal=Detail&ckey=47&primaryField=description&category=Bait+%26+Tackle%3A+Manufacturers&textToFind=

[rspahr]

I think that this site is highly skewed to the left. If it were any more leftist, it would be based in Canada.

But then again, this is a political thread and probably should be nuked.

Yet another anonomymous poster. Could this be Moosehead, Al Gore, Lieberman, or Kerry:) This person is probably from Canada criticizing how we do things in the US.

The righties get posts dusted also. The lefties tend to WHINE about it more.

I think that the moderators are doing a fine job. Some moderators are quicker to send posts to the boneyard than others.

:popcorn:

[rspahr]

I think that this site is highly skewed to the left. If it were any more leftist, it would be based in Canada.

But then again, this is a political thread and probably should be nuked.

Yet another anonomymous poster. Could this be Moosehead, Al Gore, Lieberman, or Kerry:) This person is probably from Canada criticizing how we do things in the US.

The righties get posts dusted also. The lefties tend to WHINE about it more.

I think that the moderators are doing a fine job. Some moderators are quicker to send posts to the boneyard than others.

:popcorn:

[GF aka gonfishn95]

So on other sites they just show up so why not make it obvious, would stop the person who you told to use same name on TB INSTEAD OF different name each time.The IP'S are no biggy

[GF aka gonfishn95]

So on other sites they just show up so why not make it obvious, would stop the person who you told to use same name on TB INSTEAD OF different name each time.The IP'S are no biggy

[Juls_OH]

I agree.:)

[Juls_OH]

I agree.:)

[Education is expensive]

Joe,
One aspect of your posts inflames. Your signature is political. I resent that. Here is the case:

Who primarily receives the benefits of education? The student and the student’s family.

Now, who pays for this education? Taxpayers.

Taxpayers subsidize educational spending, much of which is waste. Now, if education was SO valuable ....and SUCH a great investment, I propose that students pay for 75% of the total costs [investment] of their education beyond grade 9. If they do not have the money, we loan it to them. They can repay it after graduation.

Virtue: students will work more diligently in school, or they will take the jobs that illegal immigrants now have. Net result, I will not have to pay for duck-duck-goose any longer. If you like to subsidize such activities, fine. I do not. I do not ask their parents to pay for my golf, fishing, or computer. They should not MAKE me pay to education their kids.

EDUCATION is expensive and it is an investment that parents and students would not pay for themselves, but they want TAXPAYERS to pay for this largess. That is why I resent your signature.

[tbomn]

Thank you for your opinion.....I am not going to debate my signature line. I am sorry if offends you....as you will notice, it will stay, as long as I am a member of this community.

[bigfish1965]

>
>Joe,
>One aspect of your posts inflames. Your signature is
>political. I resent that. Here is the case:
>
>Who primarily receives the benefits of education? The student
>and the student’s family.
>
>Now, who pays for this education? Taxpayers.
>
>Taxpayers subsidize educational spending, much of which is
>waste. Now, if education was SO valuable ....and SUCH a great
>investment, I propose that students pay for 75% of the total
>costs [investment] of their education beyond grade 9. If they
>do not have the money, we loan it to them. They can repay it
>after graduation.
>
>Virtue: students will work more diligently in school, or they
>will take the jobs that illegal immigrants now have. Net
>result, I will not have to pay for duck-duck-goose any longer.
> If you like to subsidize such activities, fine. I do not. I
>do not ask their parents to pay for my golf, fishing, or
>computer. They should not MAKE me pay to education their
>kids.
>
>EDUCATION is expensive and it is an investment that parents
>and students would not pay for themselves, but they want
>TAXPAYERS to pay for this largess. That is why I resent your
>signature.
>
>

You will pay far more for the welfare, incarceration and drug treatment of those who cannot receive an education under your plan. Joe's signature is quite correct.

[Sportdog]

This post reminds me of a TV political nightly program that reads letters from viewers near the end of his program. The left wingers think that he leans right and the right wingers think he leans left. All of us have social and political views that differ, so what. This is a fishing site and in the years that I have visited this site I can tell you who leans which way and why but have yet to hear of any discussion that made any kind of difference to the political combatants viewpoints. Other than frustrated venting on both sides nothing of value comes out of these things so keep the political BS off this sight. I don't think that the lack of political debate on this site will turn off the people that come here for the intended purpose of the board. If it does than you don't really visit here to interact with your fishing breathern. Please keep the site "as is" and don't cave in to the people that are more interested in "Point-Counter-Point" than fishing.

[Sportdog]

This post reminds me of a TV political nightly program that reads letters from viewers near the end of his program. The left wingers think that he leans right and the right wingers think he leans left. All of us have social and political views that differ, so what. This is a fishing site and in the years that I have visited this site I can tell you who leans which way and why but have yet to hear of any discussion that made any kind of difference to the political combatants viewpoints. Other than frustrated venting on both sides nothing of value comes out of these things so keep the political BS off this sight. I don't think that the lack of political debate on this site will turn off the people that come here for the intended purpose of the board. If it does than you don't really visit here to interact with your fishing breathern. Please keep the site "as is" and don't cave in to the people that are more interested in "Point-Counter-Point" than fishing.

[JLDII]

I really don't care if there is a political forum or not. I won't find much need to go there. What I have to say can usually been done on one of the exsisting forums.

Consider this, require registration, but also post the IP address with each post. Why you ask....in time non members with certain agendas will find there way here and try to push their agenda's insistantly and possibly use numerous handles so as to hide the fact they are all the same one or two people, or organizations.

If we get as much traffic on this site as is stated, and we open a political discussion forum, how long will it be before this site is monitored by the FBI and the Homeland Security Service?

I know that Vetspet and Democrat are probably drooling right now with anticipation!!:shame:

[JLDII]

I really don't care if there is a political forum or not. I won't find much need to go there. What I have to say can usually been done on one of the exsisting forums.

Consider this, require registration, but also post the IP address with each post. Why you ask....in time non members with certain agendas will find there way here and try to push their agenda's insistantly and possibly use numerous handles so as to hide the fact they are all the same one or two people, or organizations.

If we get as much traffic on this site as is stated, and we open a political discussion forum, how long will it be before this site is monitored by the FBI and the Homeland Security Service?

I know that Vetspet and Democrat are probably drooling right now with anticipation!!:shame:

[Education is expensive]

Sorry Bigfish...my plan would cost less, produce better results, and create economic growth. I spent more than a decade in the trenches. I know about what I write.

To repeat, if education is such a good investment, let the parents pay. There is, of course, no corollary. If the students DO WELL with their education, they take the profits from the investment. IT is not returned to the taxpayers who made the investment.

You know the story: kid from rural city makes good in the big city. Who paid for capital improvement or capital investment: the taxpayers in rural city. Who benefits: Big city, the student and the parents. It does not take a rocket scientist to observe the facts.

Just saying that a reduction in taxes for education will increase crime does not make it so. We are already paying for liberalism. If the end result is the same, let the parents should expense. I guarantee student achievement scores would rise.

Finally, observe states with high SAT scores. Are these states engines of economic growth? NO. There is NO relationship between economic growth and student performance. Look at states with low test scores. Is Alabama growing faster than MN or WI. Of course. And, their taxes are lower. There has even been a net out-flow of college grads from WI and MN to states that tax and spend less.

Educators are fond of critical thinking....unless one critically analyzes the cost/benefit relationship.

[gonfishn95]

Jack they are all ready monitoring this board, as in the famous words of a midnight marauder, they are everywhere, they are everywhere.
ON the otherside does Cabelas out in Rogers have kaboom, The salmon are hitting on them at Superior.

[Dodge1]

I’ve got to agree with Leftie and KP. This board needs to be more unbiased, like all the major news networks are.

[rebs]

in the first place this is a fishing site not a political site. I for one come here to read and share information about fishing and fishing related subjects. I can see for myself what is going on with gas prices and politicians etc..
This site is where I come to enjoy and relax, not get all bummed out about the problems with society, gas, politicians etc. Gripes about boats, motors and fishing related items may help some of us avoid future problems with these type items. This site should be about commeradery and support for each other.
Bring on the fishing talk and post the other junk somewhere else
just my 2 cents

rebs

[GF]

I agree but this is the general discussion board that is why there is a strictly fishing area now that is for relaxing.

[JLDII]

Yes, they have "some' but not all of the line. You can also check Sportsmans Warehouse. They carry a large selection also.

[JLDII]

Instead of giving parents a standard "deduction" on their taxes for each kid, they should remove the deduction and dedicate those funds directly to education at the STATE level, not the Federal.