DWI

[phidelt157]

Is it just a random thing to check people for DWIs at the border? Anyone have any advice, I'm a bit worried about all of this. I don't want to get to Salut St. Marie and get the ax from the customs agent.

[RLR]

I hope someone can tell you if it is random or not because trying to get one of these things resolved is a mess. I am in the process of obtaining a Ministers Permit for temporary entry into Canada. A member of my family has an impaired driving conviction on his record. If it was 5 years or more from conviction you can apply for a rehabilitation permit that lets you in anytime if approved. Must get a Ministers Permit if less than 5 years, which is temporary. You can't imagine all the stuff you have to do, and there is no guarentee that it will be approved by the time I go, which is in Late July, or at all.
You have to have photocopies of your birth certificate, valid drivers license, each court judgement made against you, showing the charge, section of law you were charged under, the verdict and sentence.
Provide state police certificate for each state you have lived in the past 10 years. A FBI police certificate. Fingerprints submitted to FBI with $18.00 with a signed request for a records check. Two passport sized pictures, a personal statement of how you came to be convicted and reasons why you consider yourself not likely to reoffend,and what did you do that led to your conviction. Three type written character references from reputable individuals in your community indicating that they know of your conviction, and their name, address, phone # and occupation. Plus a 2 page application form.
All this just to go fishing. Is it worth it. I guess, because we are in the process now.

[Canadian Guy]

Get the access permit before you try to cross. If you lie when they ask you and they check........you will go to jail.

[Jim]

when you are pulling up to the booth at the border, the officer "runs" the plate on the vehicle as you pull forward and everything starts from there. Whatever "record" the owner of the car/truck has or doesnt have is thye starting point.

[RLR]

Does anyone know if they automaticly check everyone in the vehicle or if the plate is clear you just go through?

[Fuzzy]

That ia what we have been informed. DUI or what ever is no firggin joke in Canada....it's a serious infraction. AND if you get in OK and move about please have a Designated Driver and a short trip. And don't bring any 'toker' buddies across the border either - zero tolerance is zero toleralance. See ya vehicle!

[Matches]

To RLR: In your reply you mention from conviction. I honestly have never had a DWI, but I am wondering if there is a difference between a conviction, and a first offense of a DUI. Or is always considered a conviction? When they run a plate at the border, are they checking both a driving record of the driver of the owner of the vehicle, or/and they also checking a criminal background. How far back does a person have to worry about this on their record? And to clarify, this would apply to anyone entering, correct? Driver or passangers?

[Just Lucky maybe?]

Yes I have had a DUI, some 10 years back, but I also have a clear driving record with no new violations to pop up. I also no longer drink.

I go back and forth from Canada 5-10 trips a year (Including post Sept -11th 2001) being checked either by my plate or drivers license and SSI documents and have never been turned back, either way. I also carry a Canadian proof of insurance card suplied by my insurance vendore that I feel has helped in some way.

Why do they not turn me around when I KNOW they have run checks and have also randomly double checked my vehicle and boat registration? Is there a grandfather clause for old offences that they overlook or down grade there danger level if you have had a clean record for a extended time frame or what?

[phidelt157]

So what's the best way to go about this? We are planning on taking two different vehicles into the country in case someone gets turned back. Should we have the two guys with DWIs ride passenger in two cars or ride together in their own car. And for the permits, I was under the impression that they just "better" your chances of making it through, not guarantee you. Is it worth the money and time/effort? I assumed that if you fill out the permits, it just automatically put up the red flag on the individual at customs. Thanks for the help.

[RLR]

It is my understanding that if your offense is 5 or more years old that you have a better chance to get in even if they check you. Still no guarentees though.
My personal record is clear, but I would not let someone drive any vehicle across the border if they have a drinking offense on their record. I will probably be in this situation this summer.

[Idea]

Why not get a pardon for the offence. When you have an old conviction in Canada anyways you can get a pardon after so many years. It means you get a clean record again. You must have something like this in the States as well.

[Backwater Eddy]

I would be very interested to know that as well? I see a lot of people who have old DWI's afraid to vacation in Canada because of this, even if the offence is 10-15 years old.

Is there is a lawyer in the house who may know how difficult and expensive it would be to get said pardons or wavers, if possible how would you go about it?

What are the chances that if you do get a waver and your USA record sealed that it would pop up on the Canadian end resulting in you being forced to start the process over again with a provincial pardon?

Is there a phone number available for information on this process both in the USA & Canada. If so would someone post it please. It would be handy to pass along to clients who wish to double check there status prior to any entry attempt.

I would think that with the high numbers of prospective vacationers wishing to enter Canada if there was a service to expedite the paperwork ahead of time this would be a well received service if cost effective.

Thank You.

Backwater Eddy.....><,,>

><,SUMO,>

[Frank Walsh]

Check out:

http://www.travel.state.gov/canada.html

[Walizz 1]

I'm not a lawyer but I'll tell you what I know. I work for an express delivery co. in Neenah, WI. and I go to Canada quite frequently. One of our other drivers had a run to Ontario and attempted to cross at Port Huron. They refused him entry based on a DUI conviction when he was 17 yrs. old and he is now about 40. This may be an isolated case or it may not be. A pardon in WI. is extremely difficult to obtain from what I've been told. I've seen fishing parties etc. turned back too. I would say that if you can get the necessary paperwork ahead of time that you do it. I would not depend on the DUI person to be a driver either. Good luck and good fishing.
P.S. If you have managed to get through with a conviction on your record that's all well and good. Just don't be surprised if you get an officer having a bad day and you get turned back.

[bphunger]

There is no need to be jumping up and down about going across the border. We operate a camp on LOTW and help our guests that have problems. It is not just DWI, it is charges that may be felonies. The problem is that everyone is speculating. Your camp owner should help you with your concerns. The other things is to CALL to get the info for your situation from an immigration office. If any of you are going to cross at I.Falls to Ft. Frances just call the office there. The number is 807-274-3815. If your offence is over 10 years old it may not be a problem. Less than 5 years it is a problem.. Between 5 and 10 years get that call made now. Photo I>D> is being requested so it is not just the driver. Passports work best. Canada will also be at many of the sport shows in the U.S. over the next few months. Ask there if you have a problem. And if you call immigration, call at the border crossing you are going to use. There is too much speculation and misinformation going around.

[Baxter]

Here in northern NY there seems to be little if any ryme or reason as to who gets stopped or for that matter turned back at the border crossings. It's a crap shoot.....some guys breeze through, others get the extra questions and the double check. Attitude, appearance, and the mood of the officer all play into what may happen. I have 2 acquaintences that have been sent back home, one having a DWI from 1978 in Albany....so much for the 5 year rule! One thing for certain.....if the liscense # they punch in pops up with a name that matches a DWI, and that person is the driver, you WILL get questioned and turned around. My advice is to take a vehicle that has no priors. Both guys that were turned back have since that time become "Rehabilitated" to the tune of $200....hmmmmm....and as stated elsewhere, it's a real hassle getting all the info YOU (not the police or anybody else!) have to provide to become rehabilitated....imagine finding the judge from a conviction when you were a kid in 1978! My co-worker had to argue at length with a desk Sgt. , who would not believe what he was being told about needing the info to cross the border, this policeman went as far as to say such a denial at the border was illegal, especially after all that time had passed! Obviously, HE didn't need to worry about it. Regardless, everybody should be aware that, when you cross an international border, you really have few or maybe NO rights as far as to what the border guards can subject you to if they so desire.....down to dismantleing your vehicle and possesions and a full cavity search. It can happen on the odd day.

[phidelt157]

Ok, here's another situation: We will go in June and two of the five guys going have a DWI in the past two years. Would it be better to seperate the guys in two cars or have them ride together in case they get turned around they can both go back together. If one rides with me, will I be subject to hassle or even jailtime for transporting a criminal into the country?? Thanks for the responses so far, it's a big help.

BB

[Canadian Guy]

I think that if you knew you were breaking a Canadian law by bringing these guys in.......you should go to jail. Might give you some time to get an attitude adjustment.

[RLR]

Hey Canadian guy! You're really not helping the situation with that kind of attitude. 99.9% of these guys that have questions about entering Canada, are just fisherman trying to have a good time on a fishing trip. They don't want to break the law in Canada. With your kind attitude, maybe all fisherman should stay in the U.S. for a year and see how much money Canada loses on tourism.

[phidelt157]

Canadian Guy:

Why would you waste your time and my time saying that on here. I'm just trying to find the best way to get into the country without pissing off any canadians with their bogus rules that only provide more revenue for their country. If it weren't for the US, Canada would be in a heap of trouble anyway, but that's a whole other topic. If any one has more advice for my actual question I sure would appreciate it. Maybe I (and others) can work it out to keep Canadian guy's taxes down another year. Sorry to sound so foul, but that really steams me. Thanks again to everyone else.

[Yankee]

Funny thing is, if you had a DUI, you can still go in. IF you want to pay $500.00 the Canadian agent can "streamline" the paper work. (That is God's truth.. it happened to one of our party! We just turned around and went back home!)
So don't act like there is a right and a wrong and all the wrong is with us Yanks.

[Canadian Guy]

You may not agree with the rules.........but they are Canadian rules.......not American ones. Your buddies with recent DUIs are not welcome here. Get used to it. If you want to try and bring them in illegally that is your choice.

[American Guy]

Canadian Guy,
I too was considering a fishing trip to Canada and do not have a DWI or any other convictions for that matter. My only hope is that while up there (and I will be able to cross the border), I don't have any run-ins with schmucks like yourself. I hope you are in the minority.

[phidelt157]

Ok,
back to my question:

We have five guys going two have a DWI in the past two years. Would it be better to seperate the guys in two cars or have them ride together in case they get turned around they can both go back together. If one rides with me, will I be subject to hassle or even jailtime for transporting a criminal into the country?? Thanks for the responses so far, it's a big help.

[outdoor fanatic]

Canadian Guy:

I hope Canada never gets invaded by a foreign country. You might have to eat a little crow and use the US military. Last time I checked, the Canadian Navy consisted of a wave runner and a couple of canoes. Thank God most of the Canadian people I've met have been extremely nice and did not have an "us vs them" attitude.

[Sault Customs friend]

In response to the messages 18 thru 24
Please let me know what day you expect to be crossing into my town so I can fax this thread to my buddie at Sault customs.
Oh you don't want to do that ? Thats because you know you would be breaking a Canadian law, and it doesn't matter if you think its is a bogus law , that's the way it is, respect them or else. Same as if I fly to England I have to abide by their laws and drive on the wrong side of the road. Don't look for loop holes to get around laws.

PS-- as for Us needing USA to protect us from invasion , who is going to invade us. Invasions ussually are by neighboring countries and since your the only one, should we be worried ? Do you want our water our oil, our beer, (oh I forgot you quit) our fish . Our trees (oh I forgot you don't want our lumber because we can sell it cheaper)
get my point , respect us and we will respect you , don't respect us and we bite back.
Now lets get back to fishing ! the great equalizer !

[bphunger]

I guess no one has read my posting. Check it out above. We have a camp in Canada and have no problem with the laws. Canada is NOT a part of the U.S. All these posting are only hurting every one and to my thinking should not even be here. In a recent disucssion with the border folks, I think if your friends has DUI's in the last two years you should not even bother to try. Everyone in the vehicle is subject to photo ID check (going both ways I might add) so hiding him in the back seat may do no good. There are more consiquences for a drunk driver than he or she might think. Sorry. As I said above, call the office where you intend to cross. And, by the way, the processing fee for the paper work to be approved is $200.00 Canadian. All the more resaon to call the number for your border crossing to get the facts as they apply to your situation We are off to do sport shows. Be back in 5 weeks. Have great fishing in Canada.

[phidelt157]

Ok gentlemen,


I didn't intend on starting World War III here, obviously everyone has their differing opinions and if the Canadians don't want our money that's fine. Last I checked, this was a fishing post board not and "my country is better, we have more fish" post board. I was simply looking for advice and didn't want to piss anyone off or have anyone call the Canadian National Guard on me for coming into the country to go on a simple fishing trip. So, does anyone have advice from past experiences of the "rules" and how the customs agents work with this? I have crossed many times before and not been checked, but I have also not been with anyone with a DWI either. Thanks for all the posts and let's get back to talking about fishing. Enough of the "slapping each other with frozen fish." (as an old man from wabashaw once said.) God Bless.

[Canadian Schmuck]

I dislike foreigners who break our laws because they feel they are above them. I run into them now and again in the bush. They are the same guys who feel limits are not for them, cleaning up their campsites is not for them, get upset when A Canadian CO searches their campsite or their vehicles, they also feel they are doing us the greatest favour by blessing us with your presence. The papers each year here are full of their names. Foreigners charged for almost every fishing violation possible. We welcome responsible sportsman in Ontario with open arms. Responsible sportsman obey all the rules of their host country.........not just the ones they agree with.

[Canadian Guy]

Outdoor Fanatic you are right. Our navy and about 1/4 of our little army is out looking for a terrorist guy and his buddies. All thats left is the reserve. Thats the canoes and the waverunners.

[phidelt157]

Canadian Schmuck:

I agree with you completely, it's just like when you invite someone in your house and the same goes with foreigners in the States. Some of those violations are because some people are not aware of the rules (though they should be.) With that said, DOES ANY ONE HAVE AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION OR THE ADVICE I'VE LOOKING FOR THE ENTIRE TIME? I think we've covered every topic but.

[Importer]

All border checks are random. Your best chance at getting across unchecked for your DUI buddies is at shift change and morning rush hour. Split your buddies up. Two recent DUIs in the same car for a long trip is asking for trouble.

[RLR]

To Canadian Schmuck

I agree with you 100% about breaking the law in another country. The thing you have to remember though is that these fisherman broke the law in the UNITED STATES, not Canada. I am not sure of this, but I would like to know if you had a DWI conviction in Canada, and wanted to come to the U.S. if you would have to go through all this trouble. I seriously doubt it.

[phidelt157]

Importer,

Thanks for the advice, it's been what I've been looking for the entire time and would like to also hear from others. Importer, do you have experience? Travel across the border often?? Thanks again.

[Canadian Guy]

USA does not have a problem letting convicted DUIs in. Impaired driving is an automatic felony in this country. Your country does not treat the offence with the seriousness this country does.

[Boots]

>Is it just a random thing to check people for DWIs at the
>border? Anyone have any advice, I'm a bit worried about all
>of this. I don't want to get to Salut St. Marie and get the
>ax from the customs agent.
About 5 years ago we took in a couple of cases of beer over our quaota and I new we would have to pay duty on it but it was cheaper then paying the high price of Canadian beer but a couple of young female custom agents were pissed we were willing to pay the duty and searched the ##### out of us and could not find anything and then they asked us if any of us ever had a DUI. None of us had but they wanted to get us on something. We only take our quaota now and pay the high price of Canadian beer. In the long run it may be cheaper

[Smuggler]

A few years back, two Canadian customs "women", girls in college it appeared, spent almost two hours searching our van (5 guys and gear) and seemed p.o.'d that they didn't find anything EXCEPT a Penthouse magazine. They confiscated that and said it was illegal in Canada. One of the guys had to "surrender the pornogaphy to the crown" and is now in the Canada database as a porno smuggler. Go figure. BTW, we saw the same magazine for sale in a local store after we crossed.

I'd say travel at your own risk. You'll be at the mercy of the agent at the border crossing. Just hope you don't get some half-wit college interns with PMS trying to make some quota.

[Matches]

I've gotta agree with Canadian Schmuck on message #28. Different Country, Different Laws. We're their guests when we enter the Country. I live in Minnesota, the Land of 10,000 Lakes, but the Land of only 10 great Walleye Lakes (OK, maybe 20 tops!) that can compate to a Canadian Fishing experience. Because of the way our DNR is managing our lakes for fishing (ex: Mille Lacs), I consider it a real privilege to fish in Canada.

[Smuggler]

I agree completely. Their country, their laws. If you don't like them, don't go. That was one of about 20 trip the group had taken. My point is mostly that crossing the border you are at the mercy of the agents. Some are professional, some are morons. Some have common sense, some don't.

But its not just the Canadians. I've had as much trouble getting back in to the US on occasion that getting into Canada. We had trouble once trying to bring back one case of beer for three of us. The agent told us the law states: "one liter of alcoholic beverage per person." He said it didn't matter if it was pure grain alcohol or beer. One liter per person and he wanted us to think he was Santa Claus for letting us back in and not confiscating it.

I'd say either follow the regulations for entry or find a place in the states. I wouldn't drive 16 hours (from here) hoping not to get caught. You might do what we did after the "porno smuggling" incident. Go to the Gulf of Mexico off of Mississippi and do some salt water fishing. We may not go back to Canada after that episode. If DUI is bad, I have to wonder what they would do about the magazine issue if he is still in the computer.

[Matches]

Smuggler: What a GREAT point! I couldn't agree more about the US agents. Some are cool, and some seem to enjoy hasseling you. WITHOUT A DOUBT, over the last twenty years, we have had many more hassels when re-entering our own country!

[walleyechieftain]

well i guess 9/11 has spooked everyone. the lodge we go to in canada has got nervous nellies about re-bookings this winter. apparently they're nervous. if this dwi business becomes a widespread routine the lodges may as well forget winter bookings. i wouldnt put any significant deposit down not being sure about what was up. ive been going to ca for 11 years with groups as large as 12 and as small as just 2 of us and we never got asked once about being hauled up in front of a judge. where all this is coming from is beyond me. I dont know if any of the lodge owners read these pages but if this starts expanding (justified or not) business will drop off a lot. and forget about that startup money you need for the openings. as it is 9/11 is going to impact us all and looks like it might hurt us all. sad isnt it?

[Smuggler]

Maybe its just me, but with the over-zealous enforcement of the drinking laws in the US in the past few years, I think it might be difficult to put together a group of 5-6 or maybe more men that one of them hasn't been busted for some drinking offense over the past 20 years. How many groups will that stop from going north? I'm not sure, but I think one in our group was busted DUI aobut 10 years ago. If so, this will keep us from going again.

I realize Canadians takes a different view than most Americans on this issue, but how many years do they go back? Do they put DUI's in the same category as murder? They could use some discretion and simply not allow these individuals driving privledges in Canada and accomplish their intended goal of public safety. Again, if this is their policy, so be it but I think it will end up hurting their outfitting and tourist business eventually.

[BIG AL]

I believe the reason for alot of this harassment is "REVENUE ENHANCEMENT"... TIGHT LINES ><> ><> ><> AL

[Jiggin' Machine]

Al, I tend to agree with you. If this was not revenue enhancement why would immigration start enforcing a law that has been in affect for a long time without notifying anyone? We had two in our group of 12 that had to pay the $200.00 at the border. Between all of us we have crossed that border probably about 10 times a year for the last 20 years and last year was the first we had ever heard about this law.
Cananda can do what it wants in it's own country but if you ask me they put a gun to everyone's head trying to cross the border last year. Of course you are going to pay the $200.00 if you already have $400.00 and a days worth of driving invested.

[phidelt157]

Thanks for all the responses.

I would also like to hear from anyone who is planning (or has recently went already) on an ice fishing trip into Canada from the States or any outfitters that may have insight on the topic. Also, the $200 fee I assume is in Canadian dollars correct? Thanks again and keep em coming.

[Matches]

To JigginMachine: What Immigration law are you talking about?? Please explain to those of us who never heard of it either. Are you talking about the DWI law they have? Are you saying two of your guys had a DWI record and they were fined at the border and allowed to go in and complete their trip??
Thanks

[Peanut]

Yikes - my Canadian brethren sure got their backs up on this one. Relax guys - he only wants to come fishing - he's probably not even gonna rape or pillage anything.

I am a lawyer, but this is a little out of my area. For what it's worth here's what I understand:

A DWI (or DUI) from a foreign jurisdiction (ie:USA) is treated in Canada as an indictable offence (the equivalent to a felony in the US). The general rule of thumb is that people are not allowed to enter Canada with a felony criminal record, unless they get permission, in advance, from our government. It's not, as has been posted, that we're all afraid of someone with a 10 year old DWI coming up here and running amok. The problem is, our law in this regard applies equally to an old DWI guy as it does to those convictions we usually regard as more "serious". The results of the entry request may differ, but the same rule and same process apply to both.

Now, this process, the cost, etc. is a pain, and has been described on WC in a number of threads. There's not much you or I can do about that - our feds run the show. It they can make a buck, they will, and as for the gross inefficiency of the whole thing - it's a government ageny - what else is new?

So, where does that leave you with your two buddies? Well, as stated, you can go through the permit process.

Backwater Eddie asked about pardons. A pardon must be requested from the jurisdiction in which the conviction arose. So, you could not get a pardon in Canada for a US DWI. You would have to go through whatever process your home jurisdiction has for this. See your own lawyer about this - he should be able to help. The pardons that I have assisted on here were, primarily, to facilitate foreign travel, so, if you can get a pardon, they also work.

Your final option is to drive in, and take your chances. If you are caught at the border, you may well be turned back - this is a crap shoot, as has been mentioned here many times. The border is likely your greatest risk, but, if you were to get stopped in Canada, or get in an accident and have to get hospitalized or something where they would run your name, you can still get caught and booted out. Basically, our laws treat you as being in the country illegally.

Another piece of advice - if you're gonna roll the dice at the border, best have a driver other than the "felon", and don't take vehicles registered in their names. It does not always matter either way, but, like in craps, you're playing the odds.

Lastly - you may wish to talk to your lawyer at home or in the Canadian province you're going to. They may be able to set you up with a Canadian customs/immigration lawyer who can help with things. As always, get the cost of any services quoted up front.

My two cents - if it were me, I'd want to know we'd be allowed in when we got there. I would not want to spend the whole US leg of the trip stressed out over the border crossing. But that's just me. Best of luck in your plans, and I hope things get worked out. Don't worry too much about the sniping you've been getting on your thread - our National Junior hockey team lost the World Championship gold medal game to the Russians last Friday, so we're all a little testy.

Take care,

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[phidelt157]

I appreciate the comment from a lawyer who knows the law. Here's my follow up to you: If the guy does get a permit from the Canadian government, is his entrance guaranteed? I've heard it both ways. Thanks again for the explaination.

[big indian]

Some interesting info so far. i was one of the two the jigging machine
was talking about. the officer miscalculated the length of time since my offense,being only 4 instead of 5 years. but he didn't miscalclate
the $200.00 (canadian) for the temporary pass. Also the gentleman
with had a dui 11 years ago and had to pay the same thing. i thought
it was mighty convienent they accepted credit cards,maybe it is a
revenue generating program. i think it is double jeopardy, i paid
my fine, did the programs, and the probation i don't feel i should
have to pay again. i enjoy the canadian expeince but it will take
alot of time and effort to to get rehabilitaed , as if some minister
can wave a magic wand and exonorate somebody.i would like to know if they know so much,why we have to submit all this info,if we're that
dangerous, you would think they would have called the fbi by now.

[walleyechieftain]

my guess is that this is going to get nastier and nastier in the coming years. the attractiveness of going to canada for a wilderness trip will be less and less appealing from a cost point of view. will we keep doing it? i would guess my group would pay the pain one time and then that would be it. we've gone for years but this is something canada must decide not us. for years they encouraged us citizens to visit and we all down here watched their fishing-lodges and hunting lodges expand and grow...particularly on the internet. i plan to inquire about the situation at the shows and honestly folks...they're are some provinces more friendly about this then others and maybe it's time we found some new `less canadian' friends up north...if you get my drift...

[Matches]

Great comments. I have to ask one more question. Do I have to now worry about buying a used car from someone that had a DWI? Meaning, how fast our their computers updated, and will the plate number alone be a red flag to delay my entry? Is that plate number forever stored in their computers as a red flag???

[walleyechieftain]

well, we know that not all the provinces agree eye-to-eye on a lot of issues, it may come to this-that we'll have to start hunting for the ones that are friendly to us (as fishermen) and deny those that aren't our tourist dollars. i remember one year we went with 12 people. it represented about $8400 USD to the lodge, plus the travel and purchases we made along the road. those were bigger USD's too because the exchange rate was much lower. if some provinces feel $200 or $400 is worth jeopardizing $8400 in tourism dollars so be it. i intend to discuss this with the `provinces' represented at the local shows and voice my feedback. willie boy was wrong about many things (er most things) but he was right about the economy and let's (US-tourists)not be stupid about it...if the US sneezes...Canada gets the flu! and one last point..sorry to be long winded..it's hard enough getting young people to go along on these trips..these days it's disney disney disney.....so there is the future to consider

[Smuggler]

I think that if some of the outfitters start to feel the pinch of lower bookings, you can expect some of them to at least offer to pay the border fee. I feel like you, we have been there with groups of anywhere from 4 to 10 and each spends an average of about $1,200 by the time all's said and done with meals, fly-ins, licenses, etc. I think most outfitters will ante up a few hundred Canadian dollars to get $5,000 - $10,000 US dollars.

In any case, this should make for interesting conversation at the upcoming sports shows.

BTW, the $200 that's being discussed, is this a one-time, one-use deal or is this a lifetime pardon from the queen or whoever's in charge up there?

[RLR]

Does anyone know why they let some people just pay the $130.00 U.S. and go in and turn some others away. Is there any criteria. Looks, attitude, ect? If someone has a DWI and tries to cross, what are his actual chances of being turned away or paying the fee and being allowed in?

[walleyechieftain]

i think we should all make it a point to stop by the `provincial tourist booths' be they whatever province and make our concerns known. as i said in previous posts it is a lot more difficult these days to get family and kids churned up enough to go to canada fishing instead of disneyworld or the carribean. if things are going to get progressively worse at the border why bother with it? also tell the lodge owners what you think whether you book with them or not. some lodges offer discounts if you put 1/2 of the total up front - it also helps them gets started for the season. others give discounts for booking before the new year begins. some of the expensive fly-ins require ummpha money up front. how can you take that risk that if there's a chance of losing it because of the dui thing? canada seems to do a lot of weird things to its people. some citizens ive talked to say it's a city versus rural tiff...who knows..we have the same infighting down here too...

[Backwater Eddy]

Peanut thank you for your informed take on this situation.

Is said "Fee" a one shot deal and is it refunded to you as long as you don't terrorize the country in a drunken stupor on your visit?

This "Amnesia Fee" to me seams a bit bogus, like the church selling "Get into heaven free cards" in the days of old before Luther stirred the pot in Europe.

But Eh, as a good friend frequently reminds me on our trips up North, "In Canada Eh they do things different, not wrong mind you, just different".

:D

Thanks again Peanut!

><,SUMO,>

Backwater Eddy.....><,,>

[Jiggin Machine]

Yes, That is exactly what happened. They call it a one time temporary pardon. The great part is that when you get home you can file for permanent pardon for another $200.00. Sure seems financial to me.

[Peanut]

Been a few posts since mine yesterday, so I'll try to deal with them all - I just moved this baby left a ways to give myself a little room.

First, please remember my comments are not in defence of or in support of a position unless I say that I am - I am just trying to pass along what (little) I know on the subject.

1. The fee - I think there is a misunderstanding here about what this fee does. If you remember from my last post, a person with a felony record must ask permission (ie:apply) to enter Canada. Right or wrong, our government has chosen to charge a fee for processing this application. This is the $200 you pay. It does not guarantee a result, it is not meant to be a form of admission charge. Your $200 gets your application in front of a person who can determine whether you can enter Canada or not - that's all. Whether you are approved depends on your circumstances.

I would suggest that those who said the process is automatic are thinking of offences like DWI's, which are not high on our danger list, and almost always are approved. It is the situation, not the payment of a fee, that determines whether you are approved. A person with a manslaughter or drug conviction could also pay the $200 and apply to enter Canada - but the results may well differ. RLR, that's why some get in and some don't. You hockey fans may remember several years ago when due to his legal troubles Bob Probert was not allowed into Canada even to play hockey. At that time, his application was rejected. So, the short answer: is it an automatic acceptance - No, but for relatively less serious offences, it is fairly routine.

2. Lobbying Provinces - I think it's always good to let your views about your government be known - especially in a civil and constructive form. But, do not be surprised if you have trouble getting more than a sympathetic ear. These laws are Federal, meaning individual provinces do not have the ability to change them. So, it is unlikely that you will find one province with more relaxed rules than others. For change to occer, Ottawa must be persuaded to exempt certain "minor" felonies from this process, and I think that you guys have identified several strong arguments that support such changes.

3. Used Cars - Here when a car is sold, the seller takes the plates off and turns them in, and the buyer has to go get new ones. This is automatic. This way, you don't get any baggage of the type Matches mentioned. If it is not automatic where you live, always insist that you will get your own new plates, or if you are selling a vehicle at the same time, you may be able to simply transfer your existing plates onto your new vehicle. Your local DMV office (I think that's what they are in the US) can answer these questions with certainty.

Lastly, a personal observation, please do not take offence. I can appreciate your frustration with the border crossing issue, especially when all you're trying to do is enjoy your destination and boost the local economy. You're contributing positively to Canada, and you feel like we're kicking you in the nuts on the way in.

That's fair to feel that way.

But, I think everyone must also remember that since Sept. 11 Canada has come under pretty serious heat from US politicians about its "weak" border. I know that numerous talks have been held, and some pressure has been applied to tighten our border security. I think just before Christmas a new bi-national agreement regarding tougher border security was signed by our two countries.

For obvious reasons, this is a good thing. I think that US DWI guys kind of got caught in the middle on this - there is not much of a movement nowadays for relaxing border security or entrance requirements. In fact, the US government would howl with anger if Canada even tried to do something like this on its own. I know that you guys are not the problem, nor am I, but I still gotta line up 2 hours in advance to board a plane. I realize these issues pre-date Sept. 11, but the unwillingness to fix them on our part is not simply because we are stubborn, stupid or don't appreciate you. It's part of the sacrifice we all have had to make. At least that's how it seems to me.

Sorry for being so long-winded - again.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Jiggin Machine]

I agree one hundred percent with your thoughts and ideas on this. But, please explain if you can, why immigrations can give you a one time temporary pardon for $200.00 and let you in the country? Understanding that that happens right at the border. It would make sense to me that if they can give you a temporary at the border than they should just be able to give a permanent at the border. Assuming that they are only dealing with some offenses ie. DUI not murder,etc.

[phidelt157]

Peanut - great advice, thanks.

Ok peanut, one final question from me:

In your opinion, how should (or would you) handle this:


One guy got a DWI a year and a half ago, he will not drive at the border or within Canada, nor will we have his vehicle. Person #2 got a DWI eight years ago, but has a valid passport and has traveled to over 15 European countries in the past two years with no troubles. We will also not have him drive or take his car. There are three others who will be with them with no DWIs.

Should either (or both) of these guys apply for the waiver ($200) or do you think we'll be ok at the border?

In your personal opinion...

Thanks again.

BB

[RLR]

Peanut

I would be interested in getting your opinion on this. I am coming there this summer for a fishing trip with a large group. ( at least 20 guys ) A lot of it is father and son. My son 23, and another guys son 24, both have an impaired driving, lesser than DWI, conviction on their record. I started the process of getting a Ministers Permit for my son. There were some things on the application that you are supposed to get from our State and local police that they had never heard of. It was such a hassle, that we, my son and I and even the other guys involved, decided that we would just take our chances at the border. If one or both get turned back at the border, I guess we will put them on a bus back home, or try to work it out that we have an extra car. This has been discussed with the boys. What really bothers me is, and I have stated this earlier, that these offenses were commited in the United States, not Canada. The boys are crime free in Canada. I realize that there, it is a Federal offense. But still it was commited here, not there. What's your take on this situation. Thanks

[Peanut]

If you are asking why Canadian Border people can't give out permanent pardons or passes into Canada, I doubt that their jobs give them this authority.

If you are asking why shouldn't they have this authority with respect to certain offences (DWI's, for example), that's a good question, and I don't know the answer. Sorry.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Jiggin Machine]

Exactly. It would seem to me that they could make all visitors happy and still take care of their issues if it was taken care right at the border. Being where as they can give you a temporary pardon it would seem just as simple to make it a permanent pardon with a one time charge of $200.00. If they did that, this would be a more freindly way to handle the situation, still get the job done and not make it look so much like a revenue issue.

[Peanut]

First, let me say that my own feelings are that it is worth something to me to know up front that I'm not gonna have trouble. So, this will impact my answers.

The guy with the 8 year old offence stands a pretty good chance at getting an entry permit. As I said if it were me, I would want to know that I will be allowed in, so I'd spend the $200.

For the other guy - maybe talk to somebody in the Cdn. government about his situation first. I know that some internet links and phone no's have been posted on WC. If you are having trouble finding them, start a thread with this question and someone will post it. Once he gets a live body to talk to, explain when and why you are coming, what his situation is, and ask if the relatively short time since the conviction will affect his application. If he doesn't feel comfortable using his name, they should be able to give some preliminary advice even on an anonymous basis - at least whether or not it is worthwhile spending the money.

If things don't look good, or you don't get the help you need, next I'd try and talk to a Canadian lawyer who does this kind of work, to see what more can be done. Obviously this will cost some money - like I said, make the financial arrangements up front so there are no surprises. The upside is he's working for you, so if there's a way to improve the odds, that's who should help you.

If all else fails, you can still take your shot at the border. Maybe you can get a temporary there, or avoid detection. I can't really give you any accurate guess as to your likelihood of success there.

Hope this helps.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Peanut]

RLR - I wouldn't give up so quickly on the permit app's. The forms can be a pain, I know, but if you get the approval, that's what matters. There is probably a number you can call for assistance - use it. See if perhaps what they are asking for goes by another name in your state, or if there is an equivalent document (or whatever) that you can get that does the same job.

Also, try and find a cop, lawyer or somebody in your home town who's done one of these - they would know what was included in a successful application, and copying is much easier than re-inventing the wheel.

As far as the boys being crime free in Canada - like I said, I think the problem is not so much with the rule, but that the rule is applied to offences that it should not. Everyone who enters Canada for the first time is crime-free in Canada. That will never be good enough - Canada will always guard against letting in people who have committed crimes elsewhere. Every civilized country does this. And, in today's world, for our own safety, we gotta grin and bear it a little. If you're going somewhere good, the fishing will make all this sh-- er, stuff, worthwhile.

Good luck.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Peanut]

I can't say I disagree with you.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Jiggin Machine]

By the way Peanut, Great job of representing your country on this issue.

[Peanut]

Thank you.

In know I would get the same assistance if the situation were reversed.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[phidelt157]

Peanut,

I lied, I have another question for ya. I read somewhere that they had caught 35 DWI offenses coming into the county from Jan. 2001 to Oct. 2001 at a certain border city. To me, that doesn't seem like alot. Do you know (or anyone else for that matter) how often people get nailed for trying to cross with prior DWIs? It just seems like SO much of a hassle when you have a better chance of not getting caught than you do getting turned around. Plus, if you can just pay the 200 at the border, why would you go to all the hassle to get cleared in the States? Thanks peanut and any one else who may know.

BB

[Jiggin Machine]

What they told us is the $200.00 at the border is only a temporary pardon and can only be used once. You still need to file for a permanent pardon and send in another $200.00

[RLR]

If I am reading my literature correctly, you can only apply for a permanent pardon, if your offense is at least 5 years old from the date of conviction. Then it is called applying for rehabiitation. If not eligable for rehabilation, then you apply for a Minister's Permit, which is only temporary. Still $ 130.00 US.

[Peanut]

I'm sure there are statistics as to the number of DWI's caught, but I don't know where/if they can be accessed by us regular folk. It would seem that if the numbers you have are accurate, this is a miniscule % of travellers crossing at this point.

I take your point that the hassle may not be worth it if you can pay $200 at the border and be done with it. You're right. My point was, if I was the guy with the DWI, my trip would not be any fun until I got across the Canadian border, and if there was a way to avoid this stress, I would pursue it. Others may feel different, or you may live 20 miles from the border. In either case, your point is valid.

As for the temporary/permanent permit, I think only the temporary variety is available while at the border. So, next year this issue would arise again. I think someone posted that if your conviction is over 5 years old, with no intervening "incidents", you can apply for a permanent cert. using the advance mail-in procedure. These requirements would match those we have in Canada for applying for a pardon with respect to a Canadian conviction, so they seem accurate. This is an option for your "8 year" guy.

If future crossings are likely, there will be a duplication of fees if you choose to wait until the border this time. Again, this may or may not be relevant to your guys.

Hope this helps,

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[walleyechieftain]

this situation is truly amazing and will hurt a lot of lodges and camps in canada this year and future years as they attempt to repair the lost p.r. from what is happening. i already informed our group that if we get turned away for one person's 28 year offense that provided the procedure is quick enough we'll do it but never return again. we've been going to a great place but maine is just as far for us and a lot easier to deal with. we thought about it for years and this might do it. pity. if canada thinks that sportfishingmen are going to roll over and deal with this without flinching they are behaving like typical bureaucratic ostriches. it looks like the technical gap between the do-gooders on one hand who have to sell their idea and the realists who represent those being impacted on both sides of the border is very wide and will worsen in the coming season and future seasons as this insanity spreads. eventually reason will prevail and some common sense approach will prevail but i can tell you that going through all the procedures discussed on this board ain't gonna happen. and word-of-mouth will spread like wildfire!just as the internet spawned a lot of lodges growth, it will also wipe them out. pity.

[walleyechieftain]

i hate to do another post right after my last one...i'm sure you all are use to my `war and peace' posts....but does any of this stuff get back to the lodge and camp folks? it sure as heck will get back to the usa locals that will be attending shows in the next 2-3 months...
i'd love for a canadian representative to clarify things-be he/she a lodge owner or government person- on this site because this is spreading. i've gotten inquiries from people who don't post here but are raising big???????'s

[Wastraveling]

Well, I would like to thank everyone in the thread. I received alot of information on heading north to travel. I was going to head up north again with my group but due to all this and a DWI 9 years ago, I am cancelling the trip for the group. Looks like I'll head to the Dakota's. Like a previous post said, it would help our economy and I don't want any problems at the border.

[walleyechieftain]

like i said....wildfire...they (canada's goodie do'ers-govt wonders better damage control immediately during this show season before they run everyone south for the summer. me...i'm stickin' with canada for at least once bad experience but there's a serious p.r. fire going on and you lodge owners better spread the word out fast! also...anyone without a problem who cares about their lodge owner or camp friend should advise them of what's starting to happen otherwise a lot of folks are going to come up short this spring. keep the faith

[phidelt157]

Wastraveling-

I started this thread and also appreciate all the comments. However, I don't know if you should go out and cancel the entire trip quite yet. I still think we're going to chance it at the border (it doesn't really affect me because if my buddy with the DWI gets nailed, he's going home alone.) I would look into it a little more by contacting some government agencies in Canada about the issue. But, nonetheless, I completely agree with the concern with the economy and the ease of staying in the states. Thanks guys, keep 'em coming!!

[RLR]

I also hope that the lodge owners do something to try and aleviate all the hassle at the border. I will be attending at least two sport shows this spring here in Michigan. One in Lansing and one in Grand Rapids. I will be talking to as many lodge owners or anyone from Canada that will listen to me. Probably won't do much good, but at least it will be an attempt to find out as much as I can about the situation.

[Backwater Eddy]

I was told this all started over US/Canadian trade issues at the border, grain, hogs, & cattle export restrictions into the USA. The Canadian Fed got pissed and tighten the restrictions up on access in retaliation.

Any truth to that?

[walleyechieftain]

retaliation? that makes perfect bureaucraptic sense. first your country gets burned by border tariffs so you lose business or profits then to retaliate you stop the flow of tourist money for your own people and add to your losses. hmmm...i don't think that is what is behind this one....

[Matches]

Walleyechieftain, your're right on previous posts that resort/Logdges need to know what is being discussed and how it could effect their business. Maybe they need to let their reps know of the questions that so many have, that when are unclear or seem to be too much trouble is hurting their business. Since most resorts and Lodges have a web site and email, everyone herein should email this disscussion to to the resort they normally visit. Copy and paste the following to lead them to this discussion. http://www.walleyecentral.com/dcf/canada/2149.html#50

[Peanut]

BE: You're right, in a way. Tightening of border security was sparked somewhat by trade, but I understand it was the NAFTA free trade agreement: the US gov't had some concerns that its northern border was far more lax than its southern one with Mexico, yet governed by the same trade pact. (I remember a few years ago never needing a passport to get into the US - now they always tell you to get one).

There were some talks, and whether out of agreement or disagreement (I'm not sure), our two countries both started being a little more "formal" with their borders - this was about 3 years ago.

However, the issue with prior felonies is not new law, it has been in place for years - all that may have happened is now there is a little more diligence in checking at our border.

Not to throw stones, but Canada is not unique in this respect. About 4 years ago, I helped a high school buddy of mine get a pardon here for an old .08 (DWI) conviction so that he could go to Vegas. Like Canada, there is some risk of trying to enter the US with a criminal record. Another client of mine was flying to Europe, but had to land in Amsterdam, not Britain, because the Brits required government approval to let him enter through their customs, again due to a previous DWI. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, although sometimes the laws reach a little too far. One of my old professors always used to say that the law is a pretty blunt tool - and I think this thread bears this out.

I don't believe things have reached crisis levels with respect to cross-border tourism, and, as I said earlier, there would be little support today in either country for easing up on border security. So, as some posts have said - there may be a marketing opportunity for those lodges that offer assistance in getting across the border to those who need it. If they streamline the process for you - it might give them a competitive advantage, or force the competition to address this issue as well.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Baxter]

This certainly has evolved into a great discussion....I entered this way back there early on, and would like to add a little more. In my groups case, we had 3 people -w- past problems here in the States...2 DWI's, one with a "cultivation" offense from the 70's. We are now all 45-55 yr old solid citizens with no records for the last 12 +- years, family guys with good jobs. I heard of this hassle from 2 of my co-workers who encountered problems and were turned back at the border for OLD DWI's (see above post). One had paid the $200 to gain "one time" entry, the other travelled back and forth -w- his kids once a week for bagpipe band practice and decided to go the "full pardon" $200 with all of the paperwork. So here we sat, planning a great trip, facing this potential trip killer. I sent out copies of the official paperwork, which I got copied from my co-worker, to the 3 "Felons in need of re-habilitation" and sat back waiting their response. The 2 DWI'ers said skrew this, we'll take our chances....the third guy, who was coming up all the way from Louisana, decided to go the legal paper route. It cost him $500 from his lawyer down there to get his nearly 30 yr. old record "Expunged" from their official State record....his gamble was that, by getting his record officially removed at the original source, no red flags would go off at the border. This took an enormous amount of effort and time on his part, and it didn't get done till 2 months before our planned trip. Would the Canadian electronic records be in synch with Louisana's records??? Our plan evolved this way. We went across the border with 2 clean vehicles and 2 clean drivers, splitting the"felons" between the 2 vehicles. We all brought extra $$$ in case we needed to anty up more to get through. Our plan was that if we had problems, the 3 problem childs would return home (luckily most of us live within an hour of the border) and fish locally. The rest of us would then head up to Quebec. Talk about stress, I felt like I was doin something wrong even though I had never had a traffic ticket in my life! By the way, I really resent the implication from that joker above that indeed I am guilty of knowingly bringing a guilty party across the border and , I guess, should be charged accordingly and sent packing home. I would also like to point out that all of this nonsense started WELL BEFORE 9/11, the current extra scrutiny due to 9/11 only serves to tighten things further and make it even more likely that more people will have to deal with this, but let's not blame 9/11 for this mess. To make a long story short, we're a very typical looking group of 45-55 yr old putzes, in 2 vehicles loaded down with fishin gear and food....after answering the typical 3 or 4 questions, we breezed right on through the border and had a wonderfull trip. Did our plan work? Yes. Why? We were lucky and didn't lose the lottery at the border.....good day for the guard? We weren't the wrong # vehicle? We look OK and normal? Who the ##### knows, we got by. We all grew more grey hairs and it didn't do those -w- ulcers any good at all, but we're too ##### stubborn to cancel out something we all so much enjoy! If those guys had been turned back though, it surely would have been a long faced, subdued, and not too fun of a trip for any of us on either end. Just wanted to try and convey the change in "flavor" of our trip, my stomach knotted up just thinking about it again. Sorry to ramble on for so long. Happy trails!

[phidelt157]

Baxter -

Your story is exactly how mine is setting up next June (I just hope we have the same result.) A couple of questions: Did you have any firearms or alcohol to check or pay duty on? What border did you cross from? Thanks for sharing...made my day.

BB

[Baxter]

BB: No, we made sure NOT to have any beer or booze with us, and had no reason to take any firearms as it was a fishing trip. Nothing to pay duty on either. We're (mostly) from the far northern edge of NY State, and we crossed over between Ogdensburg and Prescott on the International bridge. Good luck to you! By the way, with the same group, we're starting to plan our NEXT trip in 2002, and my bet is that we'll face this whole mess again next time too.....hope our luck holds or some change is effected for OLD records by then. I completely understand the Canadians need to screen people entering their country, what irks me is the need to go way back in time to pay penance for things that were done when we were young and foolish....ie: no statuate of limitation for something like an old DWI, especially when the person has no record since then. Sure, don't let an axe murderer in regardless of when he did it.....but dredging up a 17 yr old DWI and shaking a guy down for $200 for what he did as a dumb kid seems unreasonable to me.

[RLR]

Has anyone crossed at Sault Ste. Marie. Any major problems other than what has been discussed here.

[phidelt157]

That's where I plan to cross next summer, so I'm interested to see what is said about the "Soo" customs crossing as well....

[walleyechieftain]

forget all the ideal solutions like purging records and getting permits....groups dont work like that. ive been doing group trips for 12+ years and if i have to tell a dwi'er that he would have to go thru this business before the trip he'd make other plans. our small core group doesnt bother trying to grow anymore because convincing people to join us has been harder and harder. so its just us and we talked about this nonsense this year and decided to keep going as is till we get turned away. if it does happen we'll opt for something else. maybe maine maybe ny state..who knows,,but the logistics of organizing these things and keeping the interest going has gotten much harder over the years and this would simply end it. whats really going to be interesting is to watch this dwi thing accelerate as the show season unfolds and people who put deposit money down begin to investigate about their trip and stumble on this thread. buy is there going to be a maelstorm! im an eternal optimist (hey im a fisherman right?) but i am not optimistic about this!

[okeye]

I have been crossing the boerder for 13 years at Int'national Falls and have had no trouble until last June. The person whom I was traveling with was pulling my boat behind his truck. A week previous to the trip, he had a road rage incident in which was not his fault. Anyway, the cops charged the aggressor, who initiated the act, and my friend, who defended himself and his property, with assault. My friend had a spottless record prior to this and should have had no reason to fear a border crossing into Canada. WRONG!! As we crossed the border in his vehicle, we were pulled over and searched. We had nothing that was not declared to the border officers, but were informed that we had to go through customs. After a three hour delay, we were informed that I was clean and my friend needed further questioning. The superiorly informed immigration officer knew the time and place of his arrest and the time, date and place of his court appearance, but somehow had no records showing of his "offense" being dropped at that court date. Convienient for them, yes. For us, NO. At the least, they knew he had not failed to appear in court, for the first action then would have been a warrent for his arrest. Still, they did not want to believe his story. After hours of detainment, he was given the option of paying the 200 canadien dollars or turning around. After 1500 miles, turning around was not an option. After the credit card transaction, we were free to go. A person who " was trying to flee justice" bought his way to freedom! What a raquet. He had not a single conviction on his record. Guilty until proven innocent? I think so, unless you have the cash. Anyway, we enjoyed our fishing as much as possible, and somehow restrained from committing any crimes against Canada. If they are going to use these records at thier convienience, then I will stay in the U.S. He can not even go back now without an "exemption", still no conviction on his records. His ludicris charge was dropped in court prior to the entry into Canada. But 200 dollars will garantee that he is a stand-up fisherman..

[Travel agent]

We plan 16-20 trips a year for up to 40 fisherman a trip. Starting in 2002 we are no longer booking trips to Canada because of this situation.

Now we are referring clients to North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Minnesota resorts instead. Much less hassle for all concerned.

Four other major vacation planers in our travel network are also doing the same.

2002 may be a dry season for Canadian resort owners.

[walleyechieftain]

well, you may as well add our group to your list. we hope that we do not encounter trouble this year but if it should occur we decided to pay the price one time and call it quits. any walleye and pike fishing in the states mentioned?

[walleyechieftain]

i dont like replying to my own posts but i had an afterthought after i clicked and here it is....if you have a regular member of your party who gets nabbed at the border you may as well forget future trips to canada for the simple reason that now `he' is on the canada customs computer data base as being turned away. `he' may as well wear a shirt that says `send me home' the next time `he' tries crossing. sobering (no pun intended) thought ain't it?

[Hookman]

We are a group of 4, we were going to Kenora in sept. Now were going to the UP...Stay in the GOOD OLD U.S.A. Dont need to have any trouble on vacation...need r&r not a munch of boarder cops trying to make a name for themselfs...STAY IN THE USA...Hookman

[sault local]

For the same reasons that the price of gas soared after sept 11 and US customers got gouged , because they were gullible enough to panic and fill every jerry can and vehicle they had all because of a few rumours .
Actually for the same reason the stockmarket crashed after Sept 11 because of panic instead of level heads.
Get your facts straight folks and don't be so quick to panic. Obey the laws recognize your DWI's etc have consequences and decide whether its worth it to get Canada to use the $200 to see if they can clear your records. This is not unreasonable , when Canadians buy a house and have to have a title search to look for liens etc it costs close to $200 , so I am sure it is the same amount of work to do paperwork for these offences. Look at posts earlier on site , the $200 is not a get out of jail free card , its for paperwork to ATTEMPT to clear your records up. (but in meanwhile they let you in ussually)
As for those that would still choose to punish the Canadian lodges for rules they have no control over , look at it this way , most of the Lodge owners North of Sault anyway are Americans that own lodges and spend summers here only, so no skin off of Canadians since little of the profits end up in Canadian pockets . Your burning many of your own citizens. But thats okay more fish for us locals then !!!!

[phidelt157]

All of the responses have been of great help to my group and I. Does anyone have an opinion of experience of the customs at the soo? (Sault Ste. Marie) I have been through Windsor (and got everything searched but you know what) and the "soo" and think it's a little more laid back at the "soo". Do we agree? If you usuallly or have gone through Sault Ste. Marie, please share.

Thanks

BB

[walleye chieftain]

so one got flushed out. these are the anti-american touristers that are probably behind this mess to begin with. they think that americans buy up their lodges-which is bunk-i've been to three in 12 years and only one had an american and she was a wife-part owner-good for you gals!. he forgets the gas stations,eateries,beer stops,motels,newstands,etc that get patronized. things were working pretty good for years til these stiffs got in the middle-on both sides. wanna know the source of the trouble? go back one post

[Matches]

To Peanut: If you go back one page of subjects on this board, there is a topic titled beer in a houseboat. Since this has obviously drawn so much interest, I thought, you know, the questions and problems don't stop at the border. Any chance we could get you to read and comment on that post?

[Smuggler]

To the Sault Local:

It appears that you think the objective here is to "punish" the outfitters. I think nothing could be further from the truth. Most of us have grown to know and like most of the outfitters but at the same time, going to Canada to fish has always taken extra effort. Vacations should not be a hassle. If we can avoid the stress and hassle of a border crossing by staying in the states and supporting the US economy when it is in a recession, then why not?

As to your uninformed statement about most of the profits going south and the lack of business not hurting the locals, maybe you should check the number of Canadians that make their living off of the tourist/sportsman trade before making such a short-sided statement. Most outfitters I've used have lots of locals employed in some fashion. They buy their materials to build and repair cabins locally. They buy their boat and plane fuel in Canada. They supply the cabins and lodges with Canadian food from local markets. They buy their parts for their planes and their boats and motors in Canada. And so on. Somewhere, Canadians are making a living providing these items to the lodges. If you think a serious drop in sportsmen crossing the border will have little or no effect on the local economies you are seriouly mistaken.

You say that if we stay home all the better so you can have more fish. That might not be such a bad thing because if the tourist trade is seriously affected, you can eat fish when your job disappears. Its called "Trickle Down".

As far as comparing a $200 "entry fee/tax" to a title search when buying a new house, you lost me on that one. Keeping your borders secure is important but using 10, 15, even 20 year old DWI offenses as an excuse to increase your country's revenue is inexcusable.

As I said in a previous post, if you are concerned about the safety of these drivers, don't allow them to drive in your country. Wouldn't that accomplish the alleged goal of public safety? I've spent enough time in Canada to know that there are plenty of local drunks on the roads and they don't want more. That's understandable.

[Peanut]

Matches - will try and do this today. I'll post my response as a new thread.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[wawajake]

I think "Sault Locals" response could of been stated a bit nicer , but most of what he touched on is correct at least in this geographic area.
Please be reminded like what was stated in response 46 by Peanut and again in 57 and 63 the $200 is not an entry fee or tax. it is sort of like a process search , and that is probally why "Sault Local" used the example of a title search for houses or even cars when being bought to look for liens. These service fees are getting very common in Canada we pay them for lots of things that used to be free or minimal charge.
As for profits going south , he is half right , at least in this area. Yes gas and food etc gets spent in Canada and thanks for your patronage , but many lodges and camps in this area are owned by Americans so much so that very little remote lake frontage is available for Northern Ontario citizens (I got some! after much much work, so I am not complaining)
We wish our rural vote could change the way fishing tourists are treated , perhaps if the tourist dollar destination was Toronto or Vancouver the city voters would ask for change , but us little guys in small towns that get a bit of the fishing tourist dollar get little say from our members of parliament , but we keep trying.

[Smuggler]

I'm sure that the authorities prefer that the fee be refered to as a "process fee" or something similar. I'm also sure that my garbage collector would prefer to be called a "Sanatation Engineer" and the women that work the street corners prefer the title "Lady of the Evening" as opposed to prostitute, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck... Its a fee that some must pay to enter the country so from this side of the border it looks like an entry fee.

It should be only a matter of time unitl this "border skirmish" attracts the attention of the city dwellers when some of the conventions, trade shows, and Toronto and Quebec tourism is affected to some degree and maybe then this will be resolved in a reasonable manner. I personally believe that there is more to this than the average guy knows and it likely has its roots in some trade issues more so than security issues. A drunken fisherman can be obnoxious but I can't remember the last time one threatned the national security. Hopefully some good outfitters won't get caught in the middle of all of this and be sacrificed because of some bureaucrats bruised egos.

[Rocky]

http://www.fftimes.com/index.php3/2/2001-11-21/7928

Here is some info. I found on the DWI issue.

[TangledAngler]

My brother has two previous DUI convictions, we take his truck to pull the boat and we've never had a problem crossing at the Peace Bridge. Are the policies different depending on where you cross?

[Peanut]

Rocky: great research job. I would encourage anyone concerned enough to post to read the article.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[wawajake]

Thanks Rocky !!!
The site your refered to above clarifies it quite a bit. Like usual it is typical government bureaucracy, that might take much time to rectify.
As you can see this is no hidden agenda , our government is smart enough to realize punishing american fishermen does not help leverage their position on other trade issues. They are just not smart enough to loosen the border rules because they are afraid of past blame our borders got around Sept 11 terrorist movements that may have got into Canada first.Another case of being penny wise but dollar foolish .
Sorry
be patient and plan carefully your trip to our country

wawajake

[Backwater Eddy]

Good to see they know the potential for loss of business and revenue to the resort industry. I think there estimates are low to the potential loss of cash flow to local communities.

The appraisal or fileing fee stinks of a bribe to many who would wish to enter Canada. Many will not pay it on principle alone. I hear this weekly as more guiding clients will not go to Canada due to this fee system even if under there guidelines they are likely to be permitted to enter.

People who are looking at a vacation do not want to worry about delays and fee's that may or may not impact there whole trip.

They will just look elsewhere for there vacation plans, and they are doing so now.

[phidelt157]

Where is the Peace bridge?

[TangledAngler]

Buffalo

[CANADIAN GUY]

Interesting reading....so......phidelt 157 ....it comes down to the crunch.......fill the boys and girls in on what you are going to do........we've beat this thing to death on a number of points ect ect. .......you have the schedule of the guards down.....policy.....lots of varying opinions.......are you going to run the border or obey the Canadian law even though you think that it is wrong.

[River_eye]

BE, I tried to stay out of this, cause I knew a mudslinging debate would probably happen and that doesn't interest me. But I felt that I must point out somthing that may not be so apparent to you.

One thing that you Americans overlook is that we are a different country with a different culture. If all we cared about was revenues and money, then we'd be the US. You really have to live here to understand it. True, we are similar, but not to the extent that you may believe. We have our own principles that we live by and they have served us reasonably well. Canada is one of the richest countries in the world as well. True, we aren't as rich in material goods, but we are rich in fresh air, clean lakes, and bountiful wildlife. Our public school system has produced kids with a great knowledge of the world and of different cultures. To me, that is priceless.

Next time you can't understand why another country does somthing different than you, just recognize that it's a different culture and they do things differently, period. Like I said, I wouldn't expect you to understand it unless you lived here or had more exposure to our culture. You are very welcome here, but on the terms set by us. I would expect the same when visiting your country.

This isn't so much directed at you, but all of our American friends paying attention to this thread.

Eric

[phidelt157]

Hey! I appreciate the attention!! Perhaps I could even have a welcoming party... well here's my outlook:

I am going. My purpose of starting this thread was to retrieve some info for my buddies who have the DWIs. We are taking two vehicles and seperating them. If one gets turned back, he will pack his stuff and go back south. I never had any intention of not going myself. I have been talking to alot of people from here, email, phone, our outfitter, etc. And we all agree that we have a pretty ##### good chance of getting across. I don't think they will send off the waiver form either, although I have made it up to them to decide (such a hassle!) We won't check any firearms or alcohol, so that wouldn't be an issue. Once we do get in, those guys won't be driving at all either. We will cross at Sault Ste. Marie, as I understand it and have experienced myself, it is somewhat laid back (or at least was prior 9/11.) I do appreciate all the help from everyone (although I thought I started World War III for awhile) and hope we can keep this thread going. If you have any more opinions/advice, I'd love to hear it!!

157

[RLR]

PHIDELT 157

What exactly is the schedule of guards. I plan to cross at the "soo" also this summer.

[Canadian Guy]

Have a good time testing our borders..........oh.....If the guard asks about your record in the states and you lie and then they check and find that you lied you will be charged for the offence of lying and get to see a Canadian Judge. If it is in the off time and no judge is available the officer depending on how he feels about you can throw you in jail until a judge is available................. Then we'll get to see a post about those nasty Canadians throwing an American in jail who was trying to come to Canada to do our country a favour and spend some money to save us from starvation.

[phidelt157]

Someone said earlier that morning or evening rush hour and your normail 9-5 etc. shift change are good times to try to hit it. Do you share my feeling about that border? a bit more "relaxed" than others?

[phidelt157]

The "offence of lying" eh? You must be a lawyer because you really know your stuff. Have you nothing better to do? I am coming into your country, so have your national guard (all three guys) ready because I am going to raise ##### in Canada. Come on. Give it a rest, man.

[Smuggler]

Phidelt-
My suggestion would be to stay in the states and spend the money where it might be appreciated. The attitude of "Canadian Guy" in post 112 makes it clear that this isn't worth all of the effort you'll put into it and the stress you'll get from it for the next 6 months.

Catching a few more fish (possibly) isn't worth an ulcer. Our group went to Canada for nearly 20 years straight and quit going for various reasons and have stayed in the US and fished different places and haven't regretted it.

[phidelt157]

Sorry to the mediator of the message board, didn't realize the word I used to be marked out. The opposite of heaven if anyone is wondering.

[Backwater Eddy]

Eric don't read me wrong, I love Canada.

I hope to some day retire to Canada, find me a one or two looking French Canadian girlfriends and chase cats & walleye for good, tell death and my fishing rod does part & they scatter my ash's in the Red River.

Us Americans are fond of barking at authority whenever it looks like "The Man" is out to get us, even if "The Man" may live in Canada. So don't take all our carping to heart as a personal attack against Canadians as a people.

I view this regulation as a hindrance to the business's of Canada. We may not like the regulations but we can still love the people, Eh.

Backwater Eddy.....><,,>

[RLR]

Phidelt157

Actually this is my first trip to Canada. Just so Canadian Guy doesn't, go nuts on me, I am perfectly clean. I have been checking this stuff out for someone else in our group. I have heard that the "soo" is pretty laid back though. Hope not to have any problems.

Thanks for the help

[phidelt157]

Here ya go:

Take a look at this, in particular sections 17, 18, 19-1.

On behalf of the greatest country in the world, you're welcome.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/nature/doc16.htm

[River_eye]

hmm... Greatest eh? Dirtiest, maybe... There you go with the number stuff again, can't seem to explain things any other way it seems. It's funny that you guys are willing to pay so much to come sit around my backyard for just a few days. Maybe it says somthing about the conditions down there.

Tell me, what resort were you planning on visiting up here?

[bigfish1965]

Holy crap..with all the talk I'm startin to think you Americans drink and drive WAY too much. Hey guys, it is what it is. I don't understand some of the laws in countries I have visited, but it's their country and thats what they want. Just try and find a restaurant up here that will let you light up a smoke...sheesh the way they react you'd think the silly things were dangerous or something.

[phidelt157]

Now what makes you think I'm going to tell what resort I'm coming to and when. I've already made enough enemies here from not doing anything but diagreeing with a law. I have had a very difficult and unfair situation in a certain part of Canada, which is why I stay away from there now. I hope it isn't a nationwide issue. Everyone is so quick to defend!!

[Canadian Guy]

phidelt........Your condescending attitude will get you far in our fair country. Our three guards are pretty tough guys.......spread a little thin though.....with all the rest of the guys in a small country that needs our peacekeeping abilities.

[JL]

Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too.
Imagine all the People
Living life in Peace.
John Lennon

[Canadian Guy]

"I have had a very difficult and unfair situation in a certain part of Canada, which
is why I stay away from there"

Fill us in there 157..........What happened......My curiousity always gets the better of me......Run afoul of our law?

[Denali]

I suggest we end this dead end "America vs Canada" discussion with
the prior post #124.

[phidelt157]

If you must know....
We were in Windsor getting ready to cross the border when we were in an accident in which a very close friend of mine died. Her boyfriend was driving and when we got to the hospital, he was arrested for wreckless driving (another felony in Canada I guess) and was handcuffed and taken to jail while his girlfriend died in the next room. It's quite the sensitive spot in my mind, so please don't expand on it any further.

[phidelt157]

I agree.

[AMERICAN GUY]

C.G., with an attitude like yours I think I will stay in the USA! Fishing is as good if not better where I go anyways.(Mich.) You must have been picked on as a child or something! So, S.I.I.Y.A. buddy!!!

[Peanut]

Ya know BE, I'm beginning to think we'd get along pretty fine. If you're ever out my way, lemme know.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[CANADIAN GUY]

Boy.........you Americans are sure sensitive to a little light hearted criticism. You should watch a little more of "Red Green" and "This Hour has 22 min".....Canadian Humour at it finest,,....I think that I'm going to take my ball home and listen to post 124.LOL AMERICAN GUY.

[snagmaster]

Phidelt,
Why drive all the way to Canada when we have great fishing here in the states? I know of a drive in camp on a small lake just across the road from my house. If you go in the fall, you can deer hunt as well. Lot closer, lot cheaper, and no hassles(unless you lose your mother's favorite rod and reel again). Give me a call for rates.
Ole Man

[phidelt157]

snagmaster,

If you are refering to the lake with no vegetation, I know the one you're talking about. In fact, I talked to a guy not too long ago that took you up on your offer and found out that you stock it so the fish only hit for fifteen minutes at exactly 6:30 in the morning. My reason for continuing on to "the great white north" is because years ago I went on a fly-in trip with my dad. I've never been back with him since, but every year I have to sit and watch videos or look at pictures of the thirteen fish he caught on the week long trip. Paybacks.

[snagmaster]

Speaking of paybacks........my record is clean, and I happen to be free that week.
Ole Man

[River_eye]

Another question:

if you were to visit Japan and learn that it is customary to burp after your meal to show appreciation to the host, would you decide that it didn't make sense and make fun of it to your fellow americans, or would you gracefully comply to their customs while you were in the country as any respectfull traveler would do?

[phidelt157]

I don't think you're serious...you are more than welcome to go though, as long as you bring your gear and buy beer.

[phidelt157]

Huh,

I guess WC's longest thread has raveled to an end. Never thought I would say that the way it was growing a week ago. Well, if so, thanks to all for the advice and comments and good luck in the summer.

No hard feelings to our Canadian friends and I hope they enjoy the new roads I'll be helping finance in a few months.

phidelt157

[CANADIAN GUY]

We're building jails now 157. We're following the examples of our brothers south of the border. I also hear that customs mandate is to do at least a 50% full check of anyone coming into the country for the first time because of US pressure. Full check means photo ID check and criminal background check.......... Post and let us know at the end of your trip if you were successful at bringing in to Canada some recent DUIs.

[Matches]

Great, this thread is going to keep going with replys through the summer from all letting us know how they really did at the border, me included!!! Walleye Central might as well add DWI AT THE BORDER as a new message board. Can't wait to here from you all!!

[phidelt157]

guy:


By "first time visitors" do you mean people who say that they are coming into the country for the first time when they ask?

[walleyechieftain]

i contributed a few posts to this topic and after staying with the subject for awhile ive come to the conclusion that this is way overblown. as i may have said before ive been going over the border for 12 years now with groups ranging from 3-12, 25+ different people, some with problems some not. we never approached the situation in an aggressive, arrogant way, answered politely what we were asked, never were abusive in what we took across. we basically were coming to fish and that was it. we never got asked about anything being discussed here although i will admit 9/11 and the new computer database thing may alter that a bit. still i think this issue is being `encouraged' for reasons that may not be in everyone elses interests. i say be polite, been fisherman first not americans first (be that when you return!) and have a nice trip! i doubt the vast majority of us will ever be bothered.

[CANADIAN GUY]

Yes.......If they ask .....but lots of times the people offer the information because they are nervous. When people are nervous or anxious they say things that can get them scrutinized. ie they get chatty. Its an indicator of "guilt". One of the subjects has excellant advice on crossing the border and how to behave. With the guys you have on board you might want to practice border crossings and what to say before you go. Call it a rehearsal. Have your DUI buddies bring bus fare with them and if they lie you could always pool your cash to bail them out.

[RLR]

Canadian Guy

I am almost 50 years old, and I thought my days of feeling like this were long behind me, but I sure would like to meet you in a dark alley sometime. You are the most arrogant sob that I have ever heard. I am certain all Canadians are not like you or think like you. I sure hope the people I meet on my first fishing trip to Canada this summer are a whole lot friendlier than you. Sorry to everyone else, especially other Canadians for venting like this on this site. Please, Canadian Guy, don't ever come to the United States.

[phidelt157]

Ya, we're taking two vehicles "just in case." I am familiar with the "lack of chattiness" that you must have not to arise suspicion. The new guys will be briefed, I can assure you that. We shouldn't have a problem, at least not like last time. We crossed at Windsor and the first question they asked (where we were coming from) we answered "woodstock" and that was all it took. Searched us everywhere but you know where. Pain in the ***. They almost flipped when they found needles from one of my buddies (he's a diabetic.) Very interesting experience.

[Pout King]

I don't want to kick a dead horse, but I think this is very relevant. A member of our group had a DWI 18 yrs ago, none of us were aware of this being a "felony" in Canada (each of us has been in Canada many times with no issues) until this posting. He has decided to do the paperwork/legwork for the permanent rehab. According to the info included with the paperwork it states processing could take up to a year.
Suppose he does not get his Rehabilitation approved before we leave??He is more than willing to pay the additional fee at the border for the 30 day permit if they will allow it (in addition to the fee he will pay for the permanent Rehab paperwork). Do the Immigration Officials who approve the permits work on Saturdays/Sundays (not just border guards/agents)?? They are two different entities right??
I have heard some people have not been able to cross on Saturdays because of this. Anyone know for sure? He is really trying to do what Canada has required but it sure seems like the deck is stacked against him. I am going to call the Canadian Consulate and ask also.
I will post answer from them. Sorry for the long message.

[Canadian Guy]

I vacation in The States every winter RLR. Maui,Vegas, Florida, Texas ect. The comments about the rehearsal and the bus fare are "tongue in cheek". I am taking great pleasure in the comments of our southern brothers. Passes the winter evenings in fine fashion. LOL :)

[phidelt157]

Pout,

Please post what you find out, I am also arriving on a Saturday as well. Thanks.

157

[jim c]

to all the posters: did you ever think of NOT drinking and driving as the solution to this prob??where you the @sshole weaving down the road today ??I would consider not being allowed in canada or U.S. the right answer,I certainly dont want to see you coming down the road at me.

[Pout King]

Okay I just spoke to the Canadian Consulate, they confirmed the Rehab paperwork can take up to 1 yr to process. In addition, if the person has not received a response before border crossing they can pay the fee of 200 can. for the Ministers permit IF AND ONLY IF THE IMMIGRATION OFFICIAL APPROVES IT -- the individual at the Consulate suggested calling the border station where you are crossing to see if they are a 24 hour 7 day a week crossing / immigration station so there are immigration staff working when you intend to cross. If not you will be turned back.

One other thing - Jim C. (post #148)you don't have to be such a jerk -good people make mistakes in the past - but you probably never have right? I'm sure you are just perfect. If you read the posts carefully most of these people are inquiring about DWI's from many years ago not yesterday and certainly not today -- and they are not talking about drinking and driving while in Canada or the U.S. so lighten up!!

[Robert]

Does anyone know if the Fort Frances crossing is a 24/7 immigration station?

[RLR]

How about Sault Ste. Marie? 24/7?

[phidelt157]

As posted before....

Most of the DWIs inquired here are from years ago, not yesterday and from what I read, they are a one time offense, not a daily thing. Think about that before you post.

Does any one know if Sault Ste. Marie is a 24/7 station?
Thanks for the help Pout, what are your intentions now?

[jim c]

let me be the jerk advocate for a bit: im not perfect at all make mistakes all the time,drunk driving is not a mistake,nont you know this can kill or maim someone, its only a mistake if you dont know that.the people killed 18 yrs ago by drunks are still dead,they cant go fishing any more.canada makes alot of errors ie fish neters in erie and their gun policy but im impresed with their intollerance to drunk driving. in the u.s. dwi is a .1% blood level (5 1oz shots in less than 1 hour) or more.thats the minimum,most are much over that. you should not drive like that.canada seems serious in addressing drunk driving than in the u.s..bars should not have parking lots for the patrons to drive home in and police should check everone comming out of bars for dui but the dont.??? just because your not drunk at the border doesnt get you off.many dui are repeate offenders,are they going to dui in canada also.im not a tea toteler,make my own wine, beer,thinking of a homemade still just see if can do it.but will not drive under the influence ever!favorite beer is yelingling,whisky is george dickel tennessee sour mash #8

[jim c]

if canada is tough on drunks a dui record is a red flag that they can see to be wary off.they dont have time to research your personal situation and excuse for what ever reason it may be.drunks are terrible liers.

[Canadian Guy]

Statistics show that a lot of DUIs repeat the offence. We can never be too sure. There should be a big sign at the border....."If you have a DUI in your country and do not have a pardon or an entry visa....turn around here". If you lie and try and cross you should get jail time.

[Backwater Eddy]

I go over the border many times a year and they have never yet asked me, "Eh you a felon in Canada?".

They run my plate and check my documents, ask the usual border questions politely, I answer them honestly and politely, off we go to fish, not to drink and drive, but to fish.

So Canadian Guy, once anyone makes a mistake your dammed for life eh? Unless you pay that fee, then your forgiven and a much lower risk to society and not likely to repeat any past bad behaviors, I keep forgetting that part.

That line of thinking takes nothing into consideration like if the person has been sober and active in his or her sobriety for many years, your just screwed, end of story stay the #ell out, that is how we read you line of thinking.

Gets really freaking old hearing your "Go to Jail you drunken American lire." speel evey few post's.

It takes the polish of the friendly Canadian image I am accustomed to every time you spew those threats over this thread.

Backwater Eddy.......><,,>

[phidelt157]

jim c,



Go to school. Learn how to spell. Also, take a math class. 5 shots in less than an hour is well over .1%. And you claim that many states are over that for a limit? Come on man.

Once again, think before you post.

157

[DarrenB]

Peanut..

Above(post 57) you mention how Probie from the Blackhawks was not even allowed to enter Canada to play hockey due to some legal issues.
(I'm a Blackhaws fan and never heard of these issues, but whatever...it's not really my question anyways. LOL)

Correct me if I am wrong, but is he not a Canadian citizen born in Windsor, Ont? I am not certain of Canadian laws, but in America they will allow ALL American citizens return to their home regardless of minor infractions commited in other countries of the world. Especially if the legal trouble has been solved. Obviously discretion is used... if the person is awaiting trial in Canada, Europe etc.. he or she may have to go through somewhat of a hassle before returning to the US, or get sent back to the country in which the offense took place.

Is it like that in Canada? Do actual natural born citizens of Canada have to right to enter the country regardless of any crimes( such as these 20 year old American DUI's) they may have commited in the United States? Are they also subjected to the ministers pardon or are they automatically let into Canada because they are citizens? Though I don't have any DWI's or a criminal record, I was also born in Windsor Ont and am curious as to how the Canadian Govt handles this situation.

Thanks

[Sault Local]

To Darren B

Even though you were born in Canada, the fact remains that you are now a Black Hawks fan , so your not allowed back in !
The only option is if you agree to wear a Toronto Maple Leafs hat or sweater for the duration of your visit and swear on a hockey puck that Domi always ruled over Probert.

:9

[Darren B]

>To Darren B
>
> Even though you were born in Canada, the fact remains that
>you are now a Black Hawks fan , so your not allowed back in
>!
>The only option is if you agree to wear a Toronto Maple
>Leafs hat or sweater for the duration of your visit and
>swear on a hockey puck that Domi always ruled over Probert.
>
>:9

******************************

No way! Will never wear a Maple Leafs sweater I'll stay in America then. :) These Blackhawks are for real. They are second in the NHL in points(right behind stinking Detroit!) and are ahead of them in wins with 52.

[Yank]

Yes sir. As stated before, just bring $500.00, they will let you in for $500.OO US. Cash.

[Easier to Find]

Guest user
Jan-21-02, 08:31 PM (CST)

161. "RE: DWI"
In response to message #30


Yes sir. As stated before, just bring $500.00, they will let you in for $500.OO US.
Cash.


Alert | IP
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[Retired Customs Guy]

I have watched these posts with considerable interest. These accusations of bribing customs if that was the posters intent are false. All areas involving dealing with the public are videotaped and have audio monitoring..... There is no "shift change" like a factory, staffing varies as to demand and times and staffing numbers are not public knowledge. There is no "good time" to enter this country with illegal goods or persons.We enforce our countries laws......we did not make them.

[jim c]

been to school,still kant spell.1 oz 80 proof c2h5oh will produce.02% blood concentration,5 shots x .02%=.1,the legal dwi level,in 1 hour,and youl loose .02% per hour by metabolism.(for the avarage 150 lb person) most dwi are greater that the legal limit,way over.(.5% blood level is usualy lethal.I didnt say most states legal level is over that i said most qwi arrests are over the legal limit of .1% This is the general rule for law enforcement guidlines.5 shots are = to 5 beers aprox.

[Fishin Machine]

With that post Phidelt 157......Canadian Guy and you should get together and do some fishing. You deserve each other.

[Jiggin Machine]

Retired Customs: I like you have been following this thread with considerable interest. There couldn't be a better guy to get a feel for this subject than someone as yourself. If you would answer a couple of questions it would be much appreciated. I don't know how long you have been retired but it seems like this DWI issue only surfaced last Spring. I know the law has been in effect for sometime. How come all of the sudden this has popped up? Also, I completely understand that you were only the enforcer not the law maker but what is your opinion about how this whole thing is being handled. Somewhere it just seems like there is a better way for both parties to deal with this.

[Gerry]

I run a Travel Association in NW Ontario. The problem of crossing the Border for our American anglers and hunters has dramatically increased over the past 2 years. I attended a session at the November 2001 NOTO Conference in Kenora where the Immigration Manager for the Ontario west region was speaking. Here are some basic things everyone should know:

Customs and Immigration are 2 separate Government Departments in Canada - things such as DWI are a problem for Citizenship and Immigration - which determines a persons eligibility to enter Canada. Customs, as the first point of contact, will ultimately determine if an "Immigration Review" is required but the Customs Department itself does not determine your eligibility - they "refer" you to an Immigration Officer. Customs deals in the goods you are trying to bring with you.

DWI is an example of what Citizenship and Immigration Canada calls "minor criminality" - meaning the offence is considered a criminal offence albeit a relatively "minor" one. It is important for all Americans to remember that while in most cases DWI is considered a "misdemeanor" offence in the USA, it is considered a "Criminal Code Offence" (read FELONY) in Canada - posibly making you inadmissable.

You're taking a chance going to the Border with a DWI conviction - they may not let you in. This means that not all the time, but some of the time, the names of all individuals travelling in a vehicle from the USA will be asked for photo ID and they'll "run" your name through the computers. Sometimes they'll wave you through without doing this but should you take the chance? I guess that's up to you.

They run all license plates automatically and as I said, they may also run the name of each passenger. If they do run you through the computers they will find any and I do mean ANY offence you have committed in the USA no matter what it was or how long ago it happened. With today's sophisticated computers, they have access to databases they were not able to access even 2 years ago. This is why it seems like this problem has gotten so much worse the past couple of years. Technology has caught up big time and if your name is on any police computer - they'll find it. Immigration says it still runs the same basic routine in determining if they should run your name as they used to (well that's what they are saying publically at least)it's just that the computers are that good and they are "catching" more people.

If you lie about your record your probably toast - it is likely that they'll give you a hard time and they probably will not let you in - but they probably won't "jail" you either - they may detain you for a while but they eventually will send you back home - unless some other issue like an active warrant for you is on the system. If this is the case then you really are toast, they'll probably turn you over to the US authorities.

If you admit to "minor criminality" they MAY allow you in on a one time only basis and you'll have to pay a $200.00 "processing fee" to cross. This is at the Immigration Officer's complete discretion - they don't have to let you in if they don't want to. You should probably then, act nice, be cooperative and not get mad at them if you are willing to fork over the $200.00 and still want to enter Canada. Immigration Officers only work until 5 or 6 PM so you may have to wait overnight at a hotel to be considered when the Immigration Officer gets back on duty the next day.

Solving the problem before you arrive requires time and patience. The permanent rehabilitation permit you need to apply for takes a very long time to process. Rehabilitation permits apply if the offence was minor and is more than 5 years old. If the offence is less than 5 years old, you require a Minister's permit - which is different than a rehabilitation permit and harder to get - specifically in the info you have to obtain - the guy who noted all the papers and records he had to get as well as references and all the other crap is bang on - that is what you will have to do.

The Application Process for both permits could take up to a year - and maybe longer - while this a a ridiculous amount of time it is unfortunately true. You apply through a Canadian Consulate in the US and the Immigration Manager came right out and said such applications are considered "low priority" by Consular staff - which is why they take so long.

The good news is that the Canadian Government is CONSIDERING a law whereby if the offence is minor in nature and 10 years or older, you'll automatically be considered "rehabilitated" and they'll let you in. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT THE LAW YET!

What this all comes down to is the sad fact that Immigration is going by the book and by doing so is causing major negative impacts for the Tourism Industry Operators in Canada and a great deal of grief for their American Guests. There response is "well we only enforce the laws - we don't make them". This is true but is doesn't help the situation any.

I am posting this for all US citizens so they know what to expect - some of the members of my Travel Association may be mad and accuse me of "scaring" everybody. I'm not trying to do this but if you DO have a record even a minor one e.g DWI - it IS AN ISSUE - and you should be aware of that. I know I wouldn't want to drive 14-20 hours to the Border and be turned back.

The tourism industry is actively seeking a resolution to this matter so maybe something good will happen - at the least it should only take a maximum of 3 months to process any "rehabilitation" applications - this is only ethical and fair. Right now they kind of go into a black hole for a period of time.

If you have no record then it will be smooth sailing crossing into Canada - there will be no problems whatsoever when you come to the Border.

A number you can call for more info is (416) 973-4444 or contact the Canadian Foreign Affiars Department for the number of a Canadian consulate in the US you can apply to - the web site is http://www.can-am.gc.ca/detroit/

Good Luck everybody!

[phidelt157]

Thanks for the post, big help...

[Jiggin Machine]

What a great response. Thanks for the info. Also, If things change or look like they are going to change would you please keep us informed. Thanks

[walleyechieftain]

if this issue is spreading beyond this board then canada's fishing and hunting tourism will take a hit this winter, but the real damage will be done if there are a widespread number of turnarounds during this year's late spring-summer onrush. that news will spread like wildfire and no matter what the tourism guys do it'll damage the p.r. for next winter and the shows. i gotta believe that some wise people in government have done the intelligent thing and told the border folks to use common sense otherwise there will be a lot of chaos and bad feelings. ive been doing group trips for close to 15 years and believe me it doesn't take much to cause people to switch lodges or even go at all if things get difficult. this pardon stuff is pure baloney. not many will opt for that so canada needs to do some head scratching. many groups are only 3-4 people and if they lose one it means the entire trip dies. "if joe can't go...i won't go" a lot of groups are family and all would stay home. bad situation if this has any serious umph behind it.

[CANADIAN GUY]

US fisherman will continue to come in droves for the simple reasons......1) The fishing is good and mostly uncrowded
2) It is a cheap trip because our dollar is at its lowest ever
A few convicted drunks turned around at the border will not stop the bulk of fisherman.

[Cangl]

Wow it's getting out of hand, just the thought of being tied up with customs and all and now this? Sure way of selling Alaska that's for sure! From what I am gathering the U.S is practically your only neighbor, and to think we kept Bob Probert employed all those years!

Just what does Canada do with all their people coming to the USA proably about half of the Detroit Red Wings if you get my drift?

2 years ago we had breakfast's in Canadian Niagara 2 different times the cook was drunk on his ### and it tasted that way. Most of the fisherman I travel with lug their beverage "in" do not forget that.

Look's as though it will be Alaska or Florida for me, I've just given up 5 pin bowling!

[River_eye]

Very true Canadian guy.

Some of these guys don't understand that a different country = different rules and customs.

Although I understand where they're coming from, because in their culture, everything and everyone can be bought. Fortunately it's not like that up here.

Where abouts you from C guy?

[CANADIAN GUY]

Nipigon, Ontario.

[skipjack]

please let this thread die a natural death.

[Shellback]

175 + posts about the DWI thing? What's so hard to understand? If you have a DWI Canada doesn't want you, and evidently it is illegal to enter the country when you have one on your record. It's a no brainer! Some states do not allow you to have a hunting license if have a felony on your record. Follow the rules and you won't have a problem, try and skirt around the rules and you deserve to get caught and have the book throw at you. I'm a US citizen and might not agree with others laws, but I believe I have to abide by them. Some of you guys would be screaming bloody murder if a Canadian took over his limit in the US, but you think it would be alright to sneak someone, who in Canadian eyes, is a felon, into their country.

[terrorists]

considering that one or more of the terrorists that seeped into the US was harbored in canada...isnt it sad that the dwi'ers are considered such threats to canada? anyone notice that t.ridge just named the latest threat to the US as a canadian? a dirty arab-ick of course but a canadian citizen? go ahead...turn us away at the border...no...i dont think this is about canadian customs. this is about a guy who has a problem with canada. and he's getting his jollies off..all 170 + posts of it

[phidelt157]

If I had a problem with Canada, why would I want to go back there?

[CANADIAN GUY]

Because the fishing is better and uncrowded and your dollar goes a long way is why you want to go there 157. You probably also disagree with the limits for camping on crown land, importing leaches, bedding on worms, being checked by a Canadian CO and a whole host of other little rules that Canada imposes on US fisherman and other foreigners not just the DUI thing. You rationalize your poor judgement of trying to get your buddies in by saying.........."It'll lower their taxes..... those poor third world Canadians".....Your actions and words as an individual also represent the country you come from. I meet a lot of Americans in the bush every year in NW Ontario.....most are good guys who you do not mind helping out and vice versa.

[Mr. Twister]

Probert's trouble happened when he was a Wing, (which by the way is a GOOD thing) Your confusion is understandable. As I remember the situation, Probert didn't make the trips to Canada because he would have been refused reentry to the States. As long as he remained in the States, he was OK, but if he would have left, he wouldn't have been allowed back in

[Mr. Twister]

Man you are confused, Wings DON'T stink, and as of today have 36 wins to Hawks 30, what's this 52? Also Wings have 3 games in hand... but the Hawks are having a fine season and you should be proud!

[Baxter]

Hey Canadian Guy: You Sir appear to be an instigator who really is enjoying "stirring the pot". Please clarify something for me if you would. If a person was arrested 10 or more years ago for DWI and since that time has been completely sober and holds an unblemished record.....is that person branded for life in your book?? Your repeated statements insinuating that any person with a DWI trying to cross the border equates to a drunk on your roads, and drunks being poor liers ect. is really starting to get old. The issue, at least for me and some others, has little to do with your Canadian regulations.....it's the TIME FACTOR that is the problem. Is there no such thing as a statuate of limitation in Canada? If so, then I guess people with a 17 year old record are indeed branded for life and you are correct in your opinion. I somehow doubt that is true however. What happens to a Canadian guy , once he has been sentanced, and has paid the price, and then kept his nose clean for close to 20 years??? Does he remain a felon till he dies??? And please, don't jump to conclusions .....I respect and obey ALL of your game laws, and understand that I'm a guest....please do check my buss bedding at the border! I've gotta assume you're just having fun with this in a twisted kinda way...if so......hope you're enjoying yourself...keep the pot stirred if that gives you some jollies. But please, answer my question....branded for life or no???? If so, end of discussion.

[Backwater Eddy]

BINGO Baxter!

[CANADIAN GUY]

You miss the point completely.........It is not a DUI thing. It is an American who disagrees with the law that the Canadians have made in their own country. The law is the law in my eyes and should be respected especially as a visitor even if you do not agree with it.I do not care if you are squeeky clean and are related to the president of the United States. This is not your country, this is ours and we will do as we seem fit without your help. The man has asked what is the best time to bring some illegals across without the proper paperwork. This in my eyes is wrong and arrogant. Post 176 sums it up very accurately........ What are my personnel views of the law...it is wrong as it stands especially for the longer ago offences, the shorter terms of under 10 years I agree with no entry......However as a point and an example.......I smoke Cuban cigars which are illegal in your country.......When I visit there I smoke others. I disagree with your countries views of Cuba ..........but I obey your laws.

[CANADIAN GUY]

Answer me this .......I have included a post of 157 that I take exception to......Change the word Canadian to American and tell me how you would answer.......

Guest user
Jan-07-02, 07:00 PM (CST)

19. "RE: DWI"
In response to message #18


Canadian Guy:

Why would you waste your time and my time saying that on
here. I'm just trying to find the best way to get into the country
without pissing off any canadians with their bogus rules that
only provide more revenue for their country. If it weren't for the
US, Canada would be in a heap of trouble anyway, but that's a
whole other topic. If any one has more advice for my actual
question I sure would appreciate it. Maybe I (and others) can
work it out to keep Canadian guy's taxes down another year.
Sorry to sound so foul, but that really steams me. Thanks again
to everyone else.

[Baxter]

Thanks for the honest reply Canadian Guy. You are correct.....rules are rules.....especially when you're someone elses guest. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that most of the uproar on this topic stemmed from what you seem to agree with---that the rules are WRONG as they stand now concerning long ago offences. Let's work together to change that. You have no arguement from me with rules that turn back unwanted guests with violent felonys or RECENT DWI's.... it's your Country and your rules. But to reach back in time 17 years for a dumb thing you did as a kid is just plain WRONG....glad you agree. Obviously, you Canadian Citizens have alot more pull than we fisherman from the States do to get this wrong righted. Any suggestions from you as to how we can help turn this thing around would be greatly appreciated!

[RLR]

The only problem with all of this is that it seems that some get in and some don't. You are at the mercy of the guy at the border. Some seem to be able to pay the $ 130.00 and some get turned away. I have no idea why. It doesn't seem logical to me at all. That's why some are trying to figure the best way to get in. Maybe it should be all or none, I don't know. But the way it is now doesn't make sense and is not fair to all who have the dreaded DWI.

[CANADIAN GUY]

Thank you for the polite and honest reply baxter. I understand the inconsistancies at the border are causing problems as well as more stress in an already uncomfortable situation. NOTO as well as others are addressing the problem and attempting to clean it up. There are other issues as well with our southern neighbours that need cleaning up. I may add as well that tourism is an employer in this area but not the only one. It is highly seasonal and low paying for most.Lumber, mining, mills, transportation are the large well paying jobs in the north of Ontario. I am a proud Canadian and respect the opinions of our southern neighbours........I do not tolerate to any degree disrespect or breaking of our laws no matter how inconvenient or unfair they may seem to be. :)

[phidelt157]

I'd like to set the record straight for myself...

I NEVER intended on "finding the best way to get illegals into the Country" as Canadian Guy put it. I have two guys who have DUIs on their record and was trying to clarify what the rule is exactly. No one seems to truly know. Those two guys read this board as much as I do and are taking it all in. I simply told them to decide for themselves, but just have the decision made before the time comes. I would never condone bringing "illegals" into the Country, but if the officer doesn't ask, do I offer their records before he tells us to drive off? I think not.

Secondly, I'd like to agree with a previous post. The $200 CAN fee seems strange to me. Why is it a decision that is completely up to the agent handling the vehicle if someone pays? Not to mention the individual could still get turned away after he paid. I think it should be straight across the board. If you have a DWI you don't get in. period. Or, set a limit on the age of the offense, not leave it up to the officer to decide. It shouldn't be a judgement call. That would save customs alot of work as well. Just sounds a little shady to me.

[Jig'N'John]

All this endless B.S. goes to prove one thing: If you pass enough laws, sooner or later you make the common law abiding citizen into a criminal. Enough said!

[Shellback]

Now ain't that the truth! Feel good laws, I call em! The lawmakers pass a law with a lower alcohol level to make all the liberals feel good and yet the habitual offenders are still out there killing people because no ones got the b-lls to put them in jail where they belong. That would be against their rights, victims be ****ed!

[AVS]

Speaking as an American, I would like to send a note out to all other Americans.
Some of the comments that I have read here make me understand why we are hated in many other countries.
We are good people, proud people, but arrogant people.
I liken this arrogance to a football fan, If your an NFL fan I'm sure that you can appreciate.
People used hate the Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers and San Fransisco 49 ers. Why because they were good and they became arrogant. Right now I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the St Louis Rams, why? Because they are arrogant, I'd love to see them loose on Sunday (don't think they will).
Same thing in baseball with the Yankees.
I've been on several trips north of the border with groups, I've been embarrased by comments from our group.
Like saying to the guide, "is that the Canadian Air Force" whenever a float plane fly's over. I know I'd get pretty sick and tired of hearing that sort of stuff.
As American's we do many great things, that does not give us the right to judge others.
While in Canada follow their Rules!
It doesn't matter if rules make sence, we don't have the right to question them!
I appologize to the many Canadians that have been made to feel that they should bend over backwards or look the other way when it comes to us Americans.
LETS JUST SHUT UP AND FISH!

[wawajake]

Thanks AVS
Well put , I would be happy to share a northern lake with you and anyone with similar feelings.
May our pickeral (walleye) always rise to take your bait.
sincerely
wawajake

[llg]

Way to go AVS!!

Another characteristic of US citizens is we "#####" a lot, evidenced by these posts.

[walleyechieftain]

i think most of this stuff is bull. i think there's a tiny little group of anti-canadians trying to stir up trouble. i think all this stuff is baloney because it makes no economical sense plain and simple. and even if there is a shread of believability here im sure the canadian govt will work things out in plenty of time. so everyone relax, start buying your stuff for the 2002 season and have fun. im gonna check out the other posts.

[Jiggin Machine]

This whole "thread" has been questioned and answered by fishermen. I think the policy/law that is being discussed takes a new form if it were being dealt with by businessmen. Assuming I was the President of an International organization such as Consumer Electronics I have to serious look at having our International Convention in say Montreal. These are very large dollars and or commerce you are talking about. The "bottomline" here is not whether to obey different countries laws but rather is the law something that needs to looked at and possibly changed. "Canadian Guy" you would cut your nose in spite of your face

[Canadian Guy]

LOL Jiggin Machine..........I don't know what you mean about the nose thing though........I thought that was what we Canadians thought about American foreign policy........maybe I'll lay off the CNN and start watching Canadian programs......I'm starting to think like an American :)

[phidelt157]

As we approach post #200 (eesh) I have a question for the Canadians on the board. Do you agree with the current policy on DUIs? I don't mean "should be abide by them" I mean do you agree with them? I can understand the concern with a recent DUI (say within five years) but longer than that seems a bit trivial. I have no problem with abiding by laws I don't agree with. I'd like to hear what our neighbors to the north think about the law being the way it is currently.


157

[Peanut]

I disagree with the current process for dealing with 5+ yr. old DWI's. There should be an easy, fast and cheap way to deal with these so that entry into Canada can be gained. The current process is way overkill for these offences.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Fraternity Rat 163]

Good job 157...we've reached 200 and made lots of friends. Party time Bro.

[RLR]

Peanut

I totally agree with you on an easier and or cheaper way for offenders to be allowed in, but I still disagree with the 5 year thing. If there is to be a limit at all, I think it should be one year from the time of conviction. Otherwise everyone is treated the same and the amount is the same. Really respect your opinions. Thanks


Ross (USA)

[walleyechieftain]

hey dont start thinking like us. we come up there because canada is canada. and the people got a good deal being there. enjoy your land life and the pursuit of a great environment. this dwi thing is a US problem probably started by US folks with a hard one about something. the govt will work it out. and probably already have.

[phidelt157]

It's a joyous occasion, isn't it? A time of celebration for all...

[phidelt157]

Does anyone know what the Canadian government is doing about this, if anything? It seems like we're assuming (or hoping) something will change, but does anyone know if anything is in the works?

[Peanut]

RLR - the reason I picked 5 years is that is how long someone in Canada with a DWI would have to wait to apply for a pardon. I know it's not quite the same, but I can foresee many people being upset if it is perceived that the timeframe for our own people is longer than for foreigners.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[RLR]

Peanut

I understand the 5 year thing. I know that if a conviction is 5 years or older, you can apply for rehabilitation. If less than 5 years you have to apply for the Ministers Permit. I just keep going back to why some get in and some do not. Just does not seem right. Why should anyone be at the mercy of what kind of day a border guard is having. What are the ctiteria for turning someone back, or letting them in with a 130.00 payment? No rhyme or reason to it. Sorry for squaking so much. Thanks

[Baxter]

RLR: I think perhaps you're not understanding something here. NO ONE who get's ID'd as a DWIer at the border gets across scott free......those that are DWIers that DO make it across do so simply because they were not checked closely. Once that you're ID'd as having a record, you either pay or go back home. If you're lucky enough to pass through without being checked closely...Great.....if you're not lucky enough to make it....TS. As discussed previously in this thread, it's a crap shoot at the border crossing....some get the extra 10 questions or whatever and are asked to provide ID..... who knows why???.....some breeze on through.....bottom line---some make it, and some don't. But no one who "flags out" with a record to my knowledge gets to continue on their way with NO fine.

[RLR]

Baxter

I think that if you go back through this thread that you will find that some guys with DWI's have been checked and been allowed to pay and come in. Others have been sent home. This is the only thing about this whole situation that really bothers me. Now, I do not know if there were other circumstances involved in some of these cases but it just doesn't seem fair. Either everyone with a DWI pays and comes in, or no one. Do you understand my questioning this policy?

Personally I can't wait to come to Canada this summer. My first fly-in.

[Baxter]

RLR: Absolutely, I understand questioning the policy, but as you say, without knowing the individual circumstances, it's hard to say why some are allowed to pay and continue and others are turned back. Date of conviction?? Attitude?? Appearance?? My bet is that there was most likely a defensible reason why the Border Guards turned some guys around. Not an easy situation, some people can keep their cool,and some can't in situations like this. It wouldn't take much, I'd bet, for a Border Guard to send some people packing!

[Rocky]

Spoke with the Ft. Francis immigration office yesterday and was told that sometime near the end of June 2002 a new law or rule or whatever is coming into affect that says if you have a "DWI" offense that is over 10 years old and have an otherwise clean record that you will automatically be considered rehabilitated.

Also found out that Ft. Francis is not a 24/7 immigration station.

Like I said this Info. came directly from the Ft. Francis immigration office so I hope this finally clarifies a few things.

Ft Francis immigration 807-274-9780

Rocky

[RLR]

Did they happen to mention what would be done with DWI's less than 10 years old? Thanks

[Dave in Mpls]

>Although I understand where they're coming from, because in
>their culture, everything and everyone can be bought.
>Fortunately it's not like that up here.

Check me if I'm wrong, but isn't paying $200 for a Rehabilitaion Permit "buying" my way in??

Regards

[outdoor fanatic]

If I'm not mistaken, our (US) esteemed president (and I mean that sincerely) had some alcohol and drug problems when he was younger, but you can bet he would never get stopped at the border. This post is simple. Know the laws and be prepared to deal with them. As an American, you have the freedom to choose either way. I may not like it, but that's the way it is. I love fishing in Canada and always will. But when in Rome.......now let's talk about fishing.

[skipjack]

beep,beep,beep,beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
pull the plug
later

[Rocky]

I did not ask that question but I assume that things will continue as they are right now.

[T-Mac]

LOL
Wow!

[phidelt]

Well, sadly it seems as though the stretch of seeing 'DWI' always on the first page is over...thanks to everyone who has shared, you've been a big help.

157

[Red Ruffandsore]

Canadian Guy must be a great fisherman...he patiently waits around here for his quarry to bite and they never fail him.

Canadian Guy if you can hook half as many on the lake as you hook here, you're a better man than all of us.


Stay off the pipe...and don't forget to wipe.

Red

[CANADIAN GUY]

HE HE HE.....

[pikemike]

What a travesty. My uncles and I are trying to plan what will likely be the last family fishing trip to Canada with my agin grandfather who may not get this opportunity again. And it now seems that the trip will fall through because of some old indiscretions by a few in the group. The bonds created on trips like this are the foundation of family relationships. Trips like this have happened in the past without incident at the border. I am not a hypocrite and realize full well the dangers of irresponsible actions. To Canada's credit, they are protecting what is theirs. However, reasonable consideration is needed to facilitate the tourism industry, because the virtues of every US and Canadian family unit go well beyond the personalities at the border.

I hope the political powers (if we can trust them to be reasonalbe) recognize the impact of discouraging established and future relationships with countries and outdoorsman.

FISH ON

[Red Ruffandsore]

Certainly sounds like $200.00 well spent


Stay off the pipe...and don't forget to wipe.

Red

[derek t]

from what i just learned today, if you have a dwi conviction within the past five years you cannot enter canada. if it's over five years old you must pay 135$ duty at the border. if you have a disorderly conduct conviction with no weapons involved, you can enter. if weapons or legal infractions were involved you cannot. the reason i know this is because i just found out today. my canada trip was plannned for late may. i can get you a phone number if you would like to talk to someone yourselve. canadian customs(807-964-2095)good luck! i hope this helps you.

[PacMan]

Canadian Guy, I have been reading this thread for about two hours. Until today I had never heard about this DWI thing. It doesn't concern me, but I got interested in all the hoopla. I have been fishing in Quebec for about 45 years, with only a couple missed years. I have always said, the only problem with going fishing in Canada was, you have to go through Ontario to get there.

[cueman]

some friends and I are going to Quebec in june and ran into
the same problem, one person got a dui in 1990. He called the
border where we cross and they gave him a website to get all
the info he needed, he downloaded the application and printed
it, so now he has to get police report,document saying he
paid his fines,2 people to wright a letter on what kind of a
guy he is, 2 photos of himself and send all this stuff in.
they told him it would take 4-6 weeks before he would know
anything. hope this helps someone.

[curious george]

All, please see the current page 1 entry

[Amen]

Amen

[Way Lost]

Holy Crap! What did he say. Can somebody please translate that to human for me?

[Bones2]

What happens if ou received a DWI last week and a court date has yet to be set. Can you still get into Canada?

[bones2]

>What happens if ou received a DWI last week and a court date
>has yet to be set. Can you still get into Canada?

Oh yeah...we're suppose to be leaving next Monday.

[bbarn64]

what the #### did you bring this long #### thread to the top for ??

[pikemike]

>What a travesty. My uncles and I are trying to plan what
>will likely be the last family fishing trip to Canada with my
>agin grandfather who may not get this opportunity again. And
>it now seems that the trip will fall through because of some
>old indiscretions by a few in the group. The bonds created on
>trips like this are the foundation of family relationships.
>Trips like this have happened in the past without incident at
>the border. I am not a hypocrite and realize full well the
>dangers of irresponsible actions. To Canada's credit, they
>are protecting what is theirs. However, reasonable
>consideration is needed to facilitate the tourism industry,
>because the virtues of every US and Canadian family unit go
>well beyond the personalities at the border.
>
>I hope the political powers (if we can trust them to be
>reasonalbe) recognize the impact of discouraging established
>and future relationships with countries and outdoorsman.
>
>FISH ON
>


i don't remember writing this quote? anyone know if/how this happens???