Are they doing enough for bullying in publis schools?

[School Today]

I dont know about you but everytime I see the news lately its about some kid bringing a gun to school because they were picked on. Why arent they doing more to stop bullying in our public schools? I know some of these kids really get picked on because they are overweight, to short, to whatever and the outcome lately is the picked on kids are doing drastic things to take revenge.

[dutchboy]

What are you as a parent doing to teach your kid self respect? To respect others? Why were these guns available? What tv programs and games are your kids watching and playing? Who bought them the violent video game? Did you ok it? What was your kids reaction to the Colorado shooting? To the Wisconsin shooting? You did sit down at dinner with them and discuss it didn't you? You weren't to busy to have a meal with your kid were you?

It's easy to lay the blame on someone elses door step. Let's be sure we handle our stuff before we point fingers.

It's all about accepting responsibility.

This reply was not aimed at anyone in particular, just the folks we see in the mirror everyday.

[Apple Guy]

Because you can't have an adult or so called youth violence monitor every 20 ft looking for bullies in a school with 2000 students, or could we?

Maybe they need more "diversity training" at a younger age. :-)

Maybe we could teach these bullies that if they pick on the wrong kid he may just shot you in the face if you push him too far. Teach him it could even happen after 1 incident. SO WATCH OUT!

All fun aside, you do bring up a good point, with no real answers. I myself don't like them broadcasting these incidents and get kind of steamed when I see movies with people shooting up places for revenge. It is a bad model to keep showing.

[Terroreyes]

#### no! My son and other kids have had a problem with a school bully for a few years now. They're in 4th grade now. My son has come home with many cuts and bruises on him from the little creep. Latest was a full purple shoe print on his face just two weeks ago. The school's only option for us parents sick of him......... they can move OUR kids to other schools in the district! Refuse to do anything, because of the legal ramifications by the creeps parents, but they'll roll the dice with us because the chances of liability are less.

My solution: We are prosecuting the 10 year old creep in the court system!! We have the police and prosecutors full support. I feel bad, but somebody has to do something.


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[modern USA]

Nowadays kids are more concerned with American idol and Brittany Spears stuff, you wait it will get so much worse... 10 years from now, I hate to see the conseqences this will be a whole different country. Sometimes I think mayby our country isint the best thing (anymore), like a dog witout training? Look at other countries they dont have these social issues?

[Darren MT]

Good reply, Dutchboy.

I don't think kids are being bullied any more today than they always have been. We have always had bullies, and kids who are prone to being picked on. They have had to deal with it and grow up. What has changed is how kids respond to their problems, and the social environment that contributes to the violence that is now too common. An increasing number of kids are not raised in decent homes by responsible parents. Even kids who are raised in good homes don't always have parents who are willing to take charge and control their kids. They have no supervision. They listen to music that glorifies violence. They play video games and watch movies that glorify violence. They have access to the internet, including warped chatsites, that gives them ideas and influences them to do bad things. They use drugs. There is less discipline in the home, at school and elsewhere. They are not taught to respect authority. As a society, we don't embrace moral behavior and wholesome values like we used to. We give too many reasons to justify ill behavior. The list goes on and on. It's a scary trend that we all need to change.

[bully]

according to Dutchboy you should just teach your child to just deal with it, and he will be OK. Don't point the finger at me for YOUR problems.

[Darren MT]

I didn't take it that way. He brought up some good points on why more of these kids act the way they do. They are the product of a dysfunctional environment. The people, mainly their parents, own some of the responsibility for the way their kids act. Most kids aren't born to be violent monsters. They learn this behavior, or acquire it as they grow up.

Schools and society shouldn't tolerate violence of any kind, and offenders should be punished accordingly. Kids shouldn't have to just "deal" with being assaulted or living in fear.

[Terroreyes]

The parents, or in my bullies case, parent, deserve pretty much all the responsibility right up front. The kids run the show in too many households these days, and I'm not talking just teenagers. Especially with single or separated parents, they're too afraid to dicipline their kids because they might upset him/her and they might not be the favorite parent anymore, or they're just too insecure to upset the child. When the parents aren't doing their job and it results in harm being inflicted on innocent others, then it's the schools, social services, or police departments job to see that something is done about it. To let these kids and parents go unchecked only leads to what we keep seeing on the news. We're creating little sociopaths!


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[The Christian]

This is truly the result of a increasingly Godless society.

[Sunshine]

I hope you guys come up with the answer. I know that sounds sarcastic but it is not meant to be.

I’m a high school teacher that also happens to guide, tournament fish, etc. etc. etc.

I also teach and live in Wisconsin.

This situation scares the living he11 out of me. What I’m afraid of is that state and local officials will over-react. Don’t get me wrong, something does need to change. What is happening now (IMHO) is copy cat predators. I fear that we all will see more of this.

There’s already talk of putting metal detectors in all schools. At what expense? I’m talking at the expense of freedoms and financial.

Our schools are a reflection of society. We reflect the current problems. The problems of the home do enter our doors and we do have to deal with it, BUT HOW?

Do we have bullies in school? YES
Do teachers turn their backs to bullies? NO

Do we have students who make fun of others that are different? YES
Do teachers turn their backs? NO

Has any of this changed since you were in school?
The violent outcome has changed.

PLEASE keep this civil and respectful. I look forward to monitoring it.

Terror, I feel sorry for your situation. I also believe that my school district would have handled it differently.

[tbomn]

One of the worst sociopaths/bullies in our school is the local pastors kid, so don't bring your "Godless society" here.

[The Christian]

>One of the worst sociopaths/bullies in our school is the
>local pastors kid, so don't bring your "Godless society"
>here.


Well then the child is not being Christian, that is not what Christian religion is about. True Christians have high morals and treat everyone with respect, we are very caring. Satan is able to get to any soul even the pastors child so this my freind should come as no surprise. I hope that God may touch the child and you as well.

God Bless.

[The Christian]

tbomn, I looked at your profile and noticed you were wearing a Lindy hat, how wonderfull! did you know that Al Linder is a very, very strong Christian I have heard him speak the word at one of his seminars, he is a very good person and great fishermen as well and that is a great Christian hat you are wearing!

[tbomn]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[tbomn]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[woods]

I have to comment on your statement "do teachers turn their backs on bullies". My grandson was being bullied for weeks at school. Finally, his mother and I talked to the school principal about it. She was very sympathetic and understanding about it, and said they would put a stop to it. They did absolutely nothing! My daughter finally called the bullie's parents, and it stopped immediately.

[bigfish1965]

>This is truly the result of a increasingly Godless society.
Oh, please. It is not a religous issue. In fact the opposite may be true.
It is about a child with no self esteem that lashes out against others. Bullies are always either overweight, suffer from a learning disorder (like dyslexia) and/or come from violent home.
They usually target others that they either perceive as weak or they target kids they are jealous of.
The blame never belongs to the victim nor to the bully, but to the adults who do nothing to rectify the situation. Bullies are usually bullies at home and will always give off signs of their predisposition to violence.
Teachers and parents who do nothing are the problem. The victims of bullying used to simply either spin into depression and either commit suicide or drop out of school and disappear. Why they now go out in such a blaze of death...
By age 24, 60% of bullies will have a criminal conviction. This is usually the begginning of a career thug.
The majority of victims do not report bullying because of the fear of reprisals. Our current school systems do not do enough to ensure the victims that they will be protected.
Dealing with bullies is often simply a matter of ignoring them. Bullies need a reaction to stroke their egos. By not providing that reaction, they will lose interest.
What we should be teaching our kids, in a classroom situation, is how to deal with it. Each school should be responsible for indentifying potential bullies and counselling them.

[tbomn]

"She was very sympathetic and understanding about it, and said they would put a stop to it. They did absolutely nothing!"

You were at school with the principal and teacher all day monitoring what they were doing, and they did nothing....... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[tbomn]

If only people were as smart and informed as they think they are.....:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[daveddd]

There are many sick people out there, always have been & always will be but speaking as a Canadian & a hunter the USA just has to lax gun laws.Come on you can walk around with a side arm in how many states.

[bully]

At one time gun laws were even more lax....But never heard of kids bring guns to school to kill people. Guns are just a tool.

Its a, don't diss me, society. If you do.... look out!!

Part of corporate society and our political climate.

Kill the weak or just let them die!!

[bully]

At one time gun laws were even more lax....But never heard of kids bring guns to school to kill people. Guns are just a tool.

Its a, don't diss me, society. If you do.... look out!!

Part of corporate society and our political climate.

Kill the weak or just let them die!!

[jarhead]

Have told my kids this since they started school and the bully topic came up. If someone calls you names ,walk away. If someone is bulling a weak or timmid person, break it up and tell the teacher. If someone starts a fight with you and there is no getting around it, BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF HIM AND I"LL TAKE IT UP WITH THE PRINCIPAL!

[jarhead]

Have told my kids this since they started school and the bully topic came up. If someone calls you names ,walk away. If someone is bulling a weak or timmid person, break it up and tell the teacher. If someone starts a fight with you and there is no getting around it, BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF HIM AND I"LL TAKE IT UP WITH THE PRINCIPAL!

[stanke0455]

I have to agree with Jarhead.
My kids are socially responsible but when it becomes extreme than a confrontation is inevitable.
My children are very well behaved and will not fight under ordinary circumstances such as typical social pecking order.
I stay on top and so far it has worked.
We are heavily involved in the school system, I believe that helps.
We have an eye out for the trouble makers, parents and students.
As for religion, It shouldn't even be an issue. There are good and bad in all religions, so don't go there. The Christian comment does not fit in my opinion.

[stanke0455]

I have to agree with Jarhead.
My kids are socially responsible but when it becomes extreme than a confrontation is inevitable.
My children are very well behaved and will not fight under ordinary circumstances such as typical social pecking order.
I stay on top and so far it has worked.
We are heavily involved in the school system, I believe that helps.
We have an eye out for the trouble makers, parents and students.
As for religion, It shouldn't even be an issue. There are good and bad in all religions, so don't go there. The Christian comment does not fit in my opinion.

[tbomn]

stanke0455 :bowdown:

[tbomn]

stanke0455 :bowdown:

[Discipline and respect]

When was the last time that there was a shooting in a Christian school?

If you set aside your biases, you might be able to discover why.

[Discipline and respect]

When was the last time that there was a shooting in a Christian school?

If you set aside your biases, you might be able to discover why.

[Unreal]

Morals, (religion), has no place in this scenario? How incredibly foolish. Unless taught otherwise, a human being will grow up to be a barbarian with little or no regard for others. For example, children don't have to be taught to be manipulative and/or deceitful, they come by these characteristics naturally. Being taught God's mores is no guarantee that a child will grow up to be respectful of others. However, not being taught God's morals is a vitual guarantee of the natural tendency towards evil to manifest itself. You say that teaching God's morals has no place in school? Then whose morals should be taught? Man's? Ya, right. The so-called "morality" of mankind is exactly why we are in the predicament we are in today. The bully has no self esteem? That's about the silliest thing I've ever seen on this board. The bully's self esteem is paramount and predominates over every other consideration, including respect/regard for others.
God tells us to treat our neighbors the same way we would want them to treat us. Just what is so dreadful with teaching that to kids?
The history of humankind displays, for the most part, a disregard for this command on treating one's neighbor with respect and regard. The historical, and current, consequences of this disregard are obvious for all to see.
Except for around the last 50 years or so, most in this country lived in what would be considered poverty by today's standards. There was no money for expensive tackle and boats, and taking off a day every week to go fishing was unusual as most couldn't afford to do so. Most households had easily accessible firearms yet there were no school shootings. Guns and/or the environment,(poverty), are not the cause of hatred/violence. The cause is human nature raised in a spiritual/moral vacuum. This vacuum will be filled by the natural proclivity towards evil unless filled by the alternative.
"The fear, (healthy respect), of God, is the beginning of all wisdom."

[Unreal]

Morals, (religion), has no place in this scenario? How incredibly foolish. Unless taught otherwise, a human being will grow up to be a barbarian with little or no regard for others. For example, children don't have to be taught to be manipulative and/or deceitful, they come by these characteristics naturally. Being taught God's mores is no guarantee that a child will grow up to be respectful of others. However, not being taught God's morals is a vitual guarantee of the natural tendency towards evil to manifest itself. You say that teaching God's morals has no place in school? Then whose morals should be taught? Man's? Ya, right. The so-called "morality" of mankind is exactly why we are in the predicament we are in today. The bully has no self esteem? That's about the silliest thing I've ever seen on this board. The bully's self esteem is paramount and predominates over every other consideration, including respect/regard for others.
God tells us to treat our neighbors the same way we would want them to treat us. Just what is so dreadful with teaching that to kids?
The history of humankind displays, for the most part, a disregard for this command on treating one's neighbor with respect and regard. The historical, and current, consequences of this disregard are obvious for all to see.
Except for around the last 50 years or so, most in this country lived in what would be considered poverty by today's standards. There was no money for expensive tackle and boats, and taking off a day every week to go fishing was unusual as most couldn't afford to do so. Most households had easily accessible firearms yet there were no school shootings. Guns and/or the environment,(poverty), are not the cause of hatred/violence. The cause is human nature raised in a spiritual/moral vacuum. This vacuum will be filled by the natural proclivity towards evil unless filled by the alternative.
"The fear, (healthy respect), of God, is the beginning of all wisdom."

[Somethins_Fishy]

I really wanted to keep out of this discussion, but something needs to be said . Please read your history books, or pay attention to what's being done in the name of religion today before touting it as the ultimate solution to all of societys woes . Can you say crusades ?

This problem of bullies is just one of many that has to do with single parent families, 2 parents having to work to make ends meet, not being there for their kids who are raised by strangers in daycare, lack of accountability (can you say George Bush?), violence in the media and games and other social-economic problems not necessarily linked to a lack of religion ;-) .

Some of the most judgmental, vain, hurtful bullies I've known went to chruch every Sunday .


Marc

[Discipline and respect]

Maybe you can explain the need for metal detectors and part-time police officers in public high schools. Maybe you can explain drug use and shootings in public high schools.

The Christian schools do not need metal detectors and police officers in their schools. They do not have the problems that the public schools have.

[JLucPicard]

I am a Christian and will defend my faith to the death (OK, maybe starting off on the wrong foot here??? :)).

Being raised in a Christian environement, I believe, would certainly be more helpful than harmful, but there are large numbers of examples of "PK"s (preacher's kids) being bad seeds - even Billy Graham's son Franklin had his own period of rebellion. That is no guarantee. But there are also non-Christian families who do a great job of raising their kids to be respectful of others and themselves and it would be just as surprising to see their kids do something like this.

I don't have kids of my own, so I may not even be in a position to respond to this at all. Being an uncle who invests a lot of my time in my nieces and nephews, I have seen some things on the part of parents that always made me think, "Is it any wonder some of these things happen?" There is the idea of a parent standing up for their child no matter what - and they should. But there are the parents whose child has obviously done something wrong who supports them while making sure they take responsibility for their actions, and there are the parents whose child has obviously done wrong, but the parents are not going to accept that in any way, shape or form. Even some of the things going on in the courts are showing that there is a movement to some degree that people do not take resposibility for their actions - it's always someone else's fault, or society's fault. I think that creates an environment in the schools where their hands are tied somewhat in how they can actually respond to or handle the cases of bullies.

I think that general trend is showing itself in the manner of day to day life. There are no moral absolutes - morality is whatever YOU feel is right. This, I think, has a large bearing on the way things are playing out here.

I tend to agree somewhat with Jarheads post - the problem is that people no longer beat the snot out of each other. It's gone beyond that, past a short period of knives and such to guns now settling the score. That's where this thing tends to scare the heck out of me.

I have no answers. I actually believe that Jesus is the answer. But to those that posted that the problem is that kids are not being raised in a Christian environment, while I agree at one level, I think it's not quite right to generalize too much as there are an awful lot of non-Christians who are not a part of the problem. I think moral absolutes do exist. The morality of "what ever is right for you is right" is where I feel things are going to spin off the axis.


God Bless America, and America - Bless God!

[jarhead]

>Maybe you can explain the need for metal detectors and
>part-time police officers in public high schools. Maybe you
>can explain drug use and shootings in public high schools.
>
>The Christian schools do not need metal detectors and police
>officers in their schools. They do not have the problems that
>the public schools have.


I went to private christian schools from K-12. You might be suprised at what goes on there . My childern go to public schools and the stories they tell don't even come close to what I saw or did.


It has alot more to do with the upbringing than the school they attend.

[bigfish1965]

>Morals, (religion), has no place in this scenario? How
>incredibly foolish. Unless taught otherwise, a human being
>will grow up to be a barbarian with little or no regard for
>others. For example, children don't have to be taught to be
>manipulative and/or deceitful, they come by these
>characteristics naturally. Being taught God's mores is no
>guarantee that a child will grow up to be respectful of
>others. However, not being taught God's morals is a vitual
>guarantee of the natural tendency towards evil to manifest
>itself. You say that teaching God's morals has no place in
>school? Then whose morals should be taught? Man's? Ya, right.
>The so-called "morality" of mankind is exactly why we are in
>the predicament we are in today. The bully has no self esteem?
>That's about the silliest thing I've ever seen on this board.
>The bully's self esteem is paramount and predominates over
>every other consideration, including respect/regard for
>others.
>God tells us to treat our neighbors the same way we would want
>them to treat us. Just what is so dreadful with teaching that
>to kids?
>The history of humankind displays, for the most part, a
>disregard for this command on treating one's neighbor with
>respect and regard. The historical, and current, consequences
>of this disregard are obvious for all to see.
>Except for around the last 50 years or so, most in this
>country lived in what would be considered poverty by today's
>standards. There was no money for expensive tackle and boats,
>and taking off a day every week to go fishing was unusual as
>most couldn't afford to do so. Most households had easily
>accessible firearms yet there were no school shootings. Guns
>and/or the environment,(poverty), are not the cause of
>hatred/violence. The cause is human nature raised in a
>spiritual/moral vacuum. This vacuum will be filled by the
>natural proclivity towards evil unless filled by the
>alternative.
>"The fear, (healthy respect), of God, is the beginning of all
>wisdom."
>



Arrrggghhh..
You use religion as the definition of morals! This is part of the entire problem! This is why this crap happens. A total outcasting of anyone different than yourself! The attempt to marginilize those who are not the same as you (Christian) as barbarians and social pariahs.
It is such social eliticism and outright arrogance that is the part of the issue.
Your complete lack of tolerance would surely rub off on your children. You vitriolic display would enforce a bully's belief that some people are less worthy than others and are deserving of attack.
Morality is not religion. Morality is the individual perception of right and wrong. There is no proof throughout the history of mankind that religous cultures are more 'moral' than non-religous cultures. The opposite may be true.
Morality is developed through empathy. Wisdom is developed through logic, education and experience. Fear and respect are not the same thing.

[Discipline and respect]

If you compare the number of crimes committed in public schools vs. Christian schools, you will notice a big difference. The records are public and readily available. When was the last time that you heard of a shooting in a Christian school? Nobody has been able to answer this question. Someone made a half-baked attempt at referring to a war several hundred years ago that did not occur in our country.

[Sunday]

Did any of you know America was pratically founded in Christainty?? The problem modern America has been eroded of much of it and this is what we are left with. Many years ago America was a great place to be it is a very different place in current times. Can you remember the days when Americans were so pround and happy, went to church every Sunday and read the "Pledge of Alligence to the Flag" every day in school without question? That Christianity did a lot of good, I can remember strong family ties, high values and morals. We did not have the level of problems in public schools back then with God. Really... think about it, you have to be bidding the work of the Devil to say these values are not important.

[Terroreyes]

Sorry, but I can't disagree more with what I'm hearing about the lack of God or faith.

I attended a Catholic school system from grades 1-8. Public High School. There were bullies in the Catholic system. Lots of them! Where was the first time I ever heard of mescaline and saw someone expelled for it? The Catholic school. First time I ever heard of or smelled someone smoking pot? The Catholic system. First time I saw 3-5 kids beat the snot of another kid? The Catholic system. First time I ever got the snot kicked out of me by 3-5 kids? You guessed it, the Catholic system. I saw the same things in the public school system also, but NO WAY is the private school sector free from the same problems. Just more denial that they're happening!


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[Terroreyes]

<Did any of you know America was pratically founded in Christainty??>

The same people who indiscriminately killed Indians? The same people who owned and beat slaves, and fought a war against their own to keep doing it?


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[karpbuster]

There is a reason for not talking about politics and religion on a fishing site. LOL

For one, I would never say that religion is the answer to anything, because it isn't. A personal relationship with God is something different. There is not one, no not one human being on this earth that is not a messed up sinner. So trust in God, not the Pastor, the Pastor's kid or Billy Graham.

Any type of creation of a class or whatever Bigfish called it can be part of religion and would be worthless. If you want to slap Christians around and call them names, you are no better. If you want to be a so called Christian and slap people around and call them names, same to you.

What I would say is that there are certain values in the Bible that are extremely important and universally sound, so instead of telling people what to do...go read the Bible. I am sure most of the good people of WC would agree with the values and want them in our society. Those values in your home will fix many issues and your children will fair that much better. They have aready been said (jarhead, and others). Going to Church is good, if the Church teaches from the Bible not some religion made up by them.

Which teaching is the right one...you have to figure that one out, seek the truth and you will find it, read the Bible.

What does that have to do with bullys, everything, read the Bible and find out.

I hope you all get to go fishing soon and your football team wins. So long as it isn't the Eagles. :)

karpbuster

P.S. For me...After reading the Bible and seeking first the Kingdom of God, I agree with JLucPicard as well.

[Dave G]

I worked with the father. Very sad, but it shows that being raised in a religious school and family may not help, but could sometimes actually aggravate the problem.

Dave Gulczinski
..................................

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

David Brom was convicted on October 3, 1989 of murdering his mother, father, and two siblings. His case revolved around a pair of controversial issues: when should a juvenile be tried as an adult, and what standard should be used to determine legal insanity.

The Rochester, Minnesota, jury convicted David Brom of four counts of first-degree murder on his 18th birthday. A week later, the same jury rejected Brom’s claim that he was insane when he used 56 blows with an axe to murder his father, mother, and two siblings.

He was subsequently sentenced to three consecutive life terms (and one concurrent life term) and will be eligible for parole when he turns 70.

Medical records and testimony at his trial indicated that David was severely depressed at the time of his crime. A Catholic prep school sophomore, David had twice attempted suicide (the last attempt was just a few months prior to the murders), and friends reported that he talked for six months about killing his family.

For reasons never fully explained, that time came on February 18, 1988. In a gruesome crime scene, Cascade Township police who had been summoned to the home found bodies of Bernard Brom, 41, his wife, Paullette, about 40, and children Diane, 14, and Rick, 9, all in their nightclothes. The four were believed to have been slaughtered early that morning. A bloody axe was found in the basement of the home. Authorities theorized that Richard and Rick had been attacked first, and the women coming to investigate were subsequently struck down.

David was arrested the next day while telephoning a friend from a pay phone at a post office. He admitted the crimes and explained that he was “having trouble with his father” over a music tape.

.....

[Sunday]

><Did any of you know America was pratically founded in
>Christainty??>
>
> The same people who indiscriminately killed Indians? The same
>people who owned and beat slaves, and fought a war against
>their own to keep doing it?
>
>
>Visit DOWNRIVER TACKLE in the Walleye Central Directory
>
>http://www.walleyecentral.com/wcdirectory/yellowresult.php?goal=Detail&ckey=47&primaryField=description&category=Bait+%26+Tackle%3A+Manufacturers&textToFind=


Thats not Christian. You are trying to mislead people and you are now working for Satan. If you choose to try to put down Christianity the Devil has won to your soul whether you were raised Catholic or not, you surly know the end result of your deeds if you were truly raised Catholic. You have strayed far from the flock and are lost in "the world". I pray you may find your path and return.

[bully]

Not much for some of religions that think that only they are right.

Hard to beat the ten commandments for rules to live by if you are religious or not.

[Somethins_Fishy]

>><Did any of you know America was pratically founded in
>>Christainty??>
>>
>> The same people who indiscriminately killed Indians? The
>same
>>people who owned and beat slaves, and fought a war against
>>their own to keep doing it?
>>
>>
>>Visit DOWNRIVER TACKLE in the Walleye Central Directory
>>
>>http://www.walleyecentral.com/wcdirectory/yellowresult.php?goal=Detail&ckey=47&primaryField=description&category=Bait+%26+Tackle%3A+Manufacturers&textToFind=
>
>
>Thats not Christian. You are trying to mislead people and you
>are now working for Satan. If you choose to try to put down
>Christianity the Devil has won to your soul whether you were
>raised Catholic or not, you surly know the end result of your
>deeds if you were truly raised Catholic. You have strayed far
>from the flock and are lost in "the world". I pray you may
>find your path and return.

Judge not lest ye be judged ! Catholic enough for you ?


Marc

[jcl_30]

It's not about video games nor is about music or movies or anything the like. I tboils down to this generation has had nowhere to turn, parents are working more than ever, teachers chose to teach more and pay more attention to the kids who perform well in school, kind of like we as adults hang around those that are similar to us, teachers do this with thier students, human nature. We have been so indugled with living our lives that we have let our kids spend more time at home by thenselves with the excuse, "he or she will just play video games all day he'll be alrigt." Then when they come from thier bedrooms and get a little hyper or wanna talk, we shove them back to thier rooms and tell them to play video games. Parents need to support thier kids, get to know thier kids. Teachers need to have some of thier restrictions on teaching styles looosened, so they can get to know thier pupils. Warning signs are not always apparent, nor are they always invisable.
Kids whom get pciked on usually have low self esteem, self esteem issues can be passed down to our children if we have them. The Bottom line is where and how can we change things to keep guns out of the hands of kids, ask ourselves this, Did our parents have guns in the household, most of us would say yes, did we go and shoot anybody beacuse we got picked on once or twice no, is it movies , no, is it music, no what is it.......Read Revelation...our socitey is will and continues to get worse, expect more School Shootings, more Crime and more problems, there is nothing we can do. Intervention only works when poeple care...we as a nation stopped caring abotu kids, and put ourselfes first, genreation afetr generation became more self centerd and more oblivious to others. GOd help us.

[Sark 2]

The question was asked, "Why don't we ever hear about shootings in Christian schools?"

I can tell you, I work in public schools. Private schools have the option to permanently expell any problematic student (and this often includes physically and emotionally disabled kids, not just the poor naughty ones who were given crappy parents).

Give Me Your Tired, Poor and Huddled Masses and the public schools take them.

I do not see a connection between Christianity and morals.

My boss is a devout Christian. At 6'7" he towers over the little first and second graders at our school. There isn't a bigger lamb in the world. Kind, smart and understanding, he is a wonderful human. He thinks I am Christian and I take it as a compliment. I am positive, hard working, keep my word and I am thankful for the wonderful life that I have. I am honest and moral because that is how I was raised, not becuase I fear #### and judgement.

Actions speak louder than words AND BELIEFS.

As I grow older, I do not grow tired of the challenging kids I see day inn and out. It's the lazy, doubtful parents that frustrate me. Schools are not failing-it's the parents and our materialism.

[bigfish1965]

:bowdown: :cheers:

[bigfish1965]

There has been study after study that shows todays kids are no more violent than we were. But their violence, while less often, is often more dramatic.
We would have a fist fight as kids to settle disputes. Rarely was anyone seriously hurt. If someone brought a weapon it was considered very 'unmanly'.
Shooting someone is very impersonal. You don't need to even be near them to do it.
IMHO it comes down to a lack of empathy for those around you. A lack of concern for the general welfare of the community you are in. We need to spend more time celebrating the similarities and commonalities than mocking the differences.
Yes that is a very liberal approach, but our kids do need a balanced upbringing.

[Unreal]

I agree that religion in and of itself is not the answer, as Vampire man's religion clearly displays. I used the term religion in regard to God's mores as the context of my post obviously indicates. The disingenuous responses to my post blithly ignore this context.
The central issue of my post was the increasing spiritual vacuum in today's world where God's mores are defined as irrelevant, arrogant, intolerant, repressive, and little effort is spared to remove these mores from the public forum. And as I posted earlier, the consequences of these efforts are plain for all to see as the moral depravity of each generation continues to be worse than previous generations. When I was a kid, people didn't have to lock up their houses and cars, and the streets were safe. Not so now.
There is no indication that the kid who shot his principle was bullied. The principle was shot because he admonished the kid for using tobbacco. The kid stole the guns from his parents locked gun cabinet which was pried open.
The fellow who shot the girl and molested the rest was a shiftless drifter who lived in his car. There is no indication that he was bullied either.
I might add as an aferthought, that the Crusades were primarily a defensive response to many hundreds of years of Islamic conquest and wholesale massacre of European/Christian cultures/peoples throughout eastern and western Europe. Even a cursory study of history would reveal this if one were truely interested in the facts.
I also find comical, and not a little hypocritical, the criticism leveled at the earlier depredations against the North American aboriginal. While true that these depredations cannot be morally justified, it is also true that those who level the criticism are not lining up/volunteering to return their property to the decendents of those who first lived here. Why not? As a matter of fact, "tribal rights" which "entitles" the "Indians" to net walleyes on their traditional lands/waters, brings out howls of indignation from those same people who wave the "poor, oppressed, Indian" banner.
I might also add, that one thing predominated Indian culture. That being the extermination, frequently through ritualistic torture and cannibalism, of their neighbors as well as the theft of their property, and this thousands of years before the first Europeans ever arrived in the western hemispere. I must confess that sympathy for the demise of these cultures isn't overwhelming. And speaking of land confiscation, how many of those who criticise injustices against the Indians and live in Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and California, would be willing to become a part of Mexico instead of the U.S.? After all, that territory was taken from Mexico via conquest by the U.S. army.
And since the issue of slavery was also brought up, one must remember that 99% of those who fought for the south owned no slaves and never did. They fought to keep Federal troops from invading, killing, burning homes, stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, and impoverishing their families. Fed troops of course invaded to "put down rebellion". If the folks of Detroit crossed the river into Windsor and started killing, burning, and robbing, I doubt the residents of Windsor would stand idlely by.
Discrimination was at least as severe in the north as in the south as the U.S army had to threaten wholesale executions when fed troops said they would desert rather than fight for negro freedom or even accept negro troops in their ranks. Grant himself claimed that he would turn over his sword to the southern war effort if the north fought for the liberation of the slaves. As a footnote, the only documented cases of rape during the civil war were rapes comitted by fed troops against negro refugees. There is also a case where a negro m.p. was sabered by a fed cavalry officer when the negro tried to enforce a law against galloping through the town. The punishment for this murder? The whole company of troopers had to forfeit their two weeks leave. I might also add, that the Emancipation Proclamation was a political device used to discourage European intervention on behalf of the south and it ONLY applied to Confederate areas allready occupied by fed troops. It DID NOT apply to Washington D.C. Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, or Missouri. Lincoln did not want to alienate Union sentiment in these states by emancipating their slaves. The slaves in these areas were not liberated until after the war when a constitutional amendment was legislated to that affect.
These issues are somewhat off topic but were raised by others and the facts needed to be addressed.

[bigfish1965]

So what your saying is, that only 'your God' has the proper 'mores' and that the other gods do not.
Do you think that your religion was the first to impose a conduct of behaviour? Do you think that without religions man would never have figured out a reasonable set of laws and boundaries?
There are many other cultures with far less trouble and far less religon than your own.
Personal responsibilty by parents and by the general populace is what is lacking.
Christian schools have a very different 'clientele'.
You don't see these types of shootings in Jewish schools, Buddhist schools and in private secular schools either. It isn't God, it is enrollment standards.

[vetspet.ind]

godlessness may be present but when i was a kid in the catholic school, i was one of the smallest boys in my class, a bully picked on me first day and we got into a fight...not sure who won, but i gave him a bloody lip...he never messed with me again and neither did anyone else...i think the solution is to teach our kids self-defense...let them know the bully may even win, but get their licks in all the same...and do it again next day...and the next...teach our boys to be able to stand up to bullies...that is what i think we should do and i call myself a christian...there are "davids" out there and God called him a man after Gods own heart...Jesus told his first missionaries to bring a sword...so defending oneself is not anti-christian....steve

[tbomn]

http://www.ncpa.org/pi/edu/pd042999a.html

[who cares]

School bullying will stop just as soon as we get the self serving teacher unions out of the schools. When you only have to work 181 days the last thing I want to hear about is the teacher problems. Who do you know that only works 181 days for a full time wage and then has the gall to complain about the problems they face. WAAA WAAA WAAA. If parents don't like the bullying problems, have them pony up the bucks to send their kids to private schools. This problem only seems to happen in the public schools doesn't it? You get what you pay for.

[tbomn]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[History repeated]

Can you say Dec 7th 1941. We tried it the pacifist/liberal way to solve social problems and look what the real bullies did? My uncle was 6 of 140 that survived the assault on Mt Surbachi and 5 months before that trained with a wooden fake rifle because the "nice guys" cut the military budget to bare bones. The "nice guy" approach to any problem including Bullying has never been proven to work. Until somebody puts down the righteous hammer, the problem will not go away. The period of the great depression was one of the lowest crime rates in the U.S. and 35% of the country was unemployed. We got to quit coddling criminal behavior and take the attorney out of the process to get back control of the streets. Parents have to BE TOLD what is required of their offspring and if they deviate from the plan they or their kids get a one way ticket up to and including the gas chamber. The current system is broke and is out of control financially and socially.

[bigfish1965]

IT isn't the teachers that are lacking..it is the resources.
It would be great if they could institute a class on bullying, causes and prevention...but who would pay for it?
Teachers aren't exactly over paid.
You couldn't pay me any amount of money to look after other peoples bratty screwed up kids.

[bigfish1965]

>Can you say Dec 7th 1941. We tried it the pacifist/liberal
>way to solve social problems and look what the real bullies
>did? My uncle was 6 of 140 that survived the assault on Mt
>Surbachi and 5 months before that trained with a wooden fake
>rifle because the "nice guys" cut the military budget to bare
>bones. The "nice guy" approach to any problem including
>Bullying has never been proven to work. Until somebody puts
>down the righteous hammer, the problem will not go away. The
>period of the great depression was one of the lowest crime
>rates in the U.S. and 35% of the country was unemployed. We
>got to quit coddling criminal behavior and take the attorney
>out of the process to get back control of the streets. Parents
>have to BE TOLD what is required of their offspring and if
>they deviate from the plan they or their kids get a one way
>ticket up to and including the gas chamber. The current system
>is broke and is out of control financially and socially.

And should we goose-step while we walk,too?
What on earth does Pearl Harbour have to do with this?
The US didn't stay out of WWII before that for pacifist reasons. Read your history.
So we should simply put all accused in jail without a trial, kill people who's kids misbehave, dictate morality and rule over the populace with an iron fist? Isn't that what got Saddam in trouble?

[REALLY]

They only work 181 days, 2 weeks off for Christamas, weekends off , 2 weeks in the spring, 7 hours of face to face student instruction and have summers off. There is no other accupation where this happens. Until the teachers start working like the rest of employed America, I couldn't care less what their problems are since I got enough problems of my own. Why is it when a public education has problems the only acceptable solutions are "GIMMME MO taxpayer $$$$ scenario". The public education problem is like pouring money down a rat hole that never seems to fill up. If you disagree with some overpaid PHD you get branded as lunatic.

[woods]

By doing nothing, I meant that she stated several things she was going to do that would involve my daughter, and she did't do any of them.

[woods]

Of course I wasn't at school watching?????? I was referring to two follow up meetings that the principal said she was going to have with my daughter. They never happened.