GST Rebate

[Roadhog]

I'm surprised that this topic has not been discussed yet. According to the following article the GST rebate has been repealed for next year. This will be another expense to add on to the high fuel prices, beer costs, etc.
This article was posted on the CKDR Radio Web site, Dryden, ON.

Tourist Groups Want GST Program Back
Posted by Mike Ebbeling and Sheri Leviski (Mix FM Kenora) on Friday, October 6th, 2006

Minister of Finance Jim Flaherty and House Leader Rob Nicholsen will
soon be receiving letters from tourist operators across the Region.
The Northwestern Ontario Tourism and Kenora District Camp Owners
Association are hoping to get the GST rebate program for visitors
reinstated.
KDCA President Harold Lohn says the move will have a negative effect
on area businesses.
Lohn is asking residents and tourists to call for the return of the
program by launching a massive letter writing campaign.

[NWO Fishing Bum]

Yep, yet another huge concern for the tourist outfitter relying on foreign business. This issue has received attention in the Ontario parliament, and has been raised on multiple occasions by New Democratic Party leader and MPP for Rainy River Howard Hampton. Of course, there is somewhat of a jurisdictional conflict in that GST is a federal imposed tax.

You're absolutely right . . . add it to the list of growing pressure having been placed on the resort fishing industry in the past few years, along with higher fuel costs, and an increasing Canadian dollar, as major hurdles. Then of course there is the ongoing border passport problem.

I am glad to see our American guests are acknowledging some of these impacts, because at the end of the day, lodge operators have to raise prices (over 30% in the past two years alone to keep the same profit margin!!). Many operators have taken a hit by raising their prices only 5% or 10% a year. So please remember that while your total estimated trip cost (if your figuring it out this fall sitting in suburban Chicago, Minneapolis, Madison, wherever) is going up, it is not because operators are looking to make more money, it is because they are working to stay in business.

NWO Fishing Bum

[Whit]

great. that redfish trip to the gulf keeps looking better and better. oh, roadhog, don't forget smokes. run out up there and a pack costs $10 and they're bad enough to gag a maggot.

[Go Whit Go]

Glad to hear that you are going Red Fishing and won't be harrasing the Canadian Walleye population anymore. Please send me your GPS spots for Walleye.

[River_eye]

This is really too bad for the tourist operators and all the communities that depend on foreign tourist dollars.

I'm a part time guide, and receive a portion of my income from resorts catering to american tourists, so this is disappointing to me in particular.

On the other hand, it's no surprise that when you depend on a global economy for the shirt on your back, you better have a second shirt as back up. In a sense, any industry that depends on foreign markets should know that they're playing a high stakes game and could lose if things go sour. In this case, canadian lodge owners are depending on affordable gas, pleasant political relations between canada and the US, as well as a relatively low level of international hostility.

All three of these factors have flared up in the last few years, maybe tourist operators should see this as a warning and plan accordingly.

I also work in Agriculture, and since the agricultural commodities trade has gone international, farmers are finding the only way they can make a fair and stable source of income is by developing and maintaining local markets.

[2 DOGS]

I really thought the price of gas would affect last years resort bookings, however, the 2 resorts I'm familiar with had banner years and the repeat bookings for next year are already going real well. I think if people are given an opportunity to plan for changes the reaction isn't nearly as bad. Many look forward to that trip to Canada and it would take a pretty drastic change to stop the northward movement next summer. Personnaly, the border crossings are a piece of cake and actually have been smoother and faster now with a passport. The biggest effect I see for myself is the exchange rate due to the fact that I spend 10 weeks up there and spend a chunk of change locally. IMHO I don't think discontinuing the GST rebate will have much effect.

[DUFFY41]

As a resort owner I can tell you that this is terrible for business. Cusotmers will expect the resort owners to eat the GST. I don't beleive it will have muc of an effect on the low cost drive in lakes however the more remote fly inns with higher costs to do buisness are going to be hit hard. This will hurt. Good luck to all.

[Hump]

I can remember how much GST tax there is.

[uzzi]

Down to 6% as of July 1/06.....still to much in my opinion, but I live here and gotta pay it.....

[NWO Fishing Bum]

The cancellation of the foreign traveler GST rebate (and its affect on the remote fishing outfitter business) aside, from purely a tax/society perspective, we should in fact be raising GST and cutting income taxes, particularly for low- and middle-income earners. The GST, being a consumption-based tax, is the fairest tax in the land, whereby the more you consume (buy) the more you pay.

NWO Fishing Bum

[grt1]

My question is when was the last time you shopped in the states and when you returned to Canada, you had your taxes paid returned to you?

[Very Interesting]

Maybe we should pay Guides the same way. The more fish we catch the more we pay. If you dont catch any fish the Guide doesen't get paid anything. If the fairest tax is about consumption should not all paid fees be about consumption. Should the Guide be paid only if he performs???? NO FISH....NO MONEY..... Is the Guides service worth anything if you dont catch fish??


No, and neither is his opinion about Taxes.

[lugnut]

when was the last time you paid 15% tax in the states?

[esgrams]

Every time I fill up my tank, the tax rate is like 20% and all the money ends up in a new stadium, (can you tell I don't agree with public money going into that)--Its nice to get the GST tax back, but if thats what it takes to keep the ball rolling whats another 6%--unfortuntally(sp) I'm getting used to paying and paying and paying--

[Mohleye]

Uzzi says the GST is down to 6%. I believe we were getting half the GST rebated, not all....correct?

[Badger Redd]

Was the Canadian tourism industry affected much this year? $3+ gas in the States, around $5 gas in Canada, $35 for a case of beer, $45 a lb. for leeches(if you could find some). Reduced limits to protect the fishery, all seem to be reasons that could hurt resort owners/tourism but I'd be surprised if there was much of a dropoff in people visiting Canada. People may gripe about the cost but we do continue to pay, and pay, and pay more.

[bigfish1965]

Part of the reason they dumped it was because of a lack of participation on the part of the tourists. On a typical $1,000 trip the tax difference is $60. I doubt the cost of fire, police and coast guard protection for tourists is covered by this $60. We don't charge for responses by any of the aforementioned.
The cancellation of the tax rebate is compliments of our conservative government, btw.

[Badger Redd]

Bigfish, does the government have any type of report detailing the costs in protecting tourists? In my more than 30 yrs of vacationing into Canada I've never been around any sort of instance in which the police, fire dept., or Coast Guard has been around (ie: at camp, hotel, on the lake, or even an accident). I guess that I've been lucky(and happy) that I haven't needed the help. The only interaction I've had with "the authorities" is buying a fishing license from the ranger when going into the Quetico.

[NWO Fishing Bum]

Here is some government info.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/nonresidents/visitors/qa-e.html

If you fully booked your trip before September 25, 2006, AND you have a written confirmation, you can apply for the rebate, provided the trip is taken before April 2009. If you have only given a deposit, and are planning to confirm in the coming months, NO rebate. And obviously anything booked from here on, NO rebate.

NWO Fishing Bum

[uzzi]

Can also post some more news, not on the GST, but on the Saskatchewan PST. It was announced today by our provincial finance minister that effective midnight tonight (Oct 27/06), our PST rate will drop from 7% to 5%, so now combined GST and PST when you come to Sask is 11%

Unfortunately, the Liquor Consumption tax will remain the same....rats, can't have everything, eh??

[mistawalleye]

I wish I could be your guide. Can you say early retirement....LOL
Mista W

[River_eye]

Nice twist of logic.

I'd gladly take $0 for a day where we don't catch many fish, but my rate for a day where we slam them would be around $1000.

I agree with NWO fishing bum, You consume, you pay.

[Whit]

actually, consumption taxes are considered to be highly regressive taxes and place a disproportionate burden on the poor. poor folks spend everything they earn. rich folks don't. sales taxes are hated by liberals here in the states. they much prefer a highly progressive income tax. soak the rich and all that jazz. any of you guides ever get a job from a poor man?

[NWO Fishing Bum]

Huh? Consumption-based taxes and performance-based compensation (also referred to as commission) are not related, at least to the topic discussed here, whatsoever. I'm not sure what you are getting at, unles you're trying to suggest you shouldn't pay tax for unsatisfactory service. Good luck with that endeavour if that's the case. If you have some axe to grind, and feel that guides are overpaid for the service delivered, then by all means please post a new thread on the topic and let the WC crowd weigh-in on the subject. It's a great debate for a forum like this, and it hasn't been discussed for a while. You can start things off with your obvious loads of insight on the subject.

'Very Interesting', in case you just fell off the turnip truck, the fee you pay for a guide's service, goes to the guide or whomever pays the guide. The GST you pay goes to the government, and is money used for health care, education, research, various social programs, etc. which help build a better society. I'm not surprised that you probably can't grasp that concept. The more an individual consumes (from society), the more that individual should give back (to society) in taxes. It's a simple concept that strikes at the heart of building a better society for ALL. As opposed to the "I don't want to pay any taxes for any programs...I'm gonna protect me and my own with my guns, and everybody else can fend for themselves" approach, where selfishness, greed, and the independent pursuit of wealth drive society. I'm quite content with my opinion on taxes. Let's hear your opinion, Very Interesting.

NWO Fishing Bum

[NWO Fishing Bum]

That is true, Whit. That issue is dealt with by removing sales tax from common required items (groceries for example), and by giving the lowest income earners GST rebates (which we already have here in Canada). The difference is made up by having a higher sales tax rate on other items, for example boats, resort condominiums, big-screen televisions, and other desire-based rather than need-based goods.

NWO Fishing Bum

[Whit]

huh? you talking to me? sales taxes are highly regressive taxes having a disproportionate burden on the poor. i don't understand the concept of consuming from society. in the states, those that consume from society are generally the poor. we pay for their health care, housing, part of their heating bills, their education, their food, and usually a small cash stipend under some program or another. they cannot pay much back to the government, cause they have very little cash.

[Whit]

nwo, we do similar jiggering here. food is either no tax or extremely low rated. i've lived in some states where clothing was exempt. this is to help to offset the regressiveness of sales based taxes. we don't go so far as to introduce luxury tax into our sales taxes as far as i am aware. we do not have gst rebates, but we do have what is called the earned income tax credits which give low income earners, aka the working poor, far more in tax returns than they ever pay in over the year.

[NWO Fishing Bum]

No, I was talking to Very Interesting!!

NWO Fishing Bum

[NWO Fishing Bum]

Yeah, different method, but perhaps gives the same result, and certainly is for the same reason.

NWO Fishing Bum

[Bent Rod]

I Just love hearing you Americans complain about a little tax here and there,if this tax burden is so hard on you,maybe you should just stay home and fish in "your great waters".If not why complain on deaf ears because I'am pretty sure your not going to get any sympothy from us tax paying CANADIANS.Tight Lines BR

[Canadian Guy]

Totally agree. If you don't like it stay home. This GST rebate thing was a bad thing to begin with. All it did was create work for clerks that sent cheques out. It was a cost to us resident Canadians that was not recovered in additional revenue. Glad the Conservatives did it in. The fishery will be a lot better when we get rid of all the Pork and Beaners who also are the most vocal.

[Gerritt]

Wow...

I am a Canadian living in Ontario.. and I have to say the last two posts were the most ignorant I have heard in a very long time.. What these two posters seem to forget without "tourist" dollars most if not all our outfitters would be outta business.... that means no more cottages to rent, no more boats to rent etc... and families without means of income..

I am acually ashamed of their responses..


While I agree the GST rebate is/was unfair to use canadians that have paid it for years...fair game for fair play is the way I see it...and if you want to come here then you live by our tax system just like we do....(and yes it sucks)when I shop in the states I have to pay your taxes as well... may not be as high but I still have to pay em... but we have alot of services that our brothers down south do not...healthcare etc...



Anyways the above posters were out of line and please do not let them discourage you from coming up here and enjoying the north...

Have a great weekend!

Gerritt.

[Bor]

If americans stopped heading north of the border, there will be a lot of resort owners, pilots, and guides on the unemployment line. Sure the fishing would be great, but nobody would afford to fish.

We like to fish, and you like our money. It is a symbiotic relationship.

[Skylane]

This soap opera continues year after year. The rebate thing is minimal. The problem is in part that what ever country you live in those of us that work pay for those that do not. I am fine taking care of those that can't, my problem is those that won't. The US citizens pay taxes that go toward welfare, higher medical\insurance costs pay for those leeching off of the medical system, Ontario does it with taxes. Gerritt, it looks to me that Ontario does a fine job, but I wonder if in fact a little more tax might be in order to go directly to ease some of the health care issues facing North-West Ontario (long waits, doctor-equipment shortage). We all hate taxes, but this looks like a good place to use some. There is not enough space here to talk about how the US could improve use of it's tax dollars.