Canada on thin ice too, what next?

[Noah]

Well fellows put away them ice augers and start bulding your ark!... TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- A giant ice shelf the size of 11,000 football fields has snapped free from Canada's Arctic, scientists said.

put a link! read the bottom of your posting!

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[getting warmer]

I hope we keep heating up. I was going to move south for retirement, now I might be able to stay right where I'm at. I'm going to burn some extra fossil fuel everyday!!!!

[ohhhh]

Doooough! I wanted ice... Draaaats!! Im going north!

[pepe]

if this keeps up well lose one of the 4 seasons. i dont think that i would like that. as a kid i looked forward to winter. i still do. pepe

[Limiterr]

Interesting reading. Where I live in NW Ontario our Deer herd has exploded and our Moose herd has declined and we are at all time low water levels. We had huge bush fires in November. We now have black and grey squirrels and raccoons. This is way out of their traditional area. Our little greys are getting pushed out. Not sure what it all means.....

[hgmeyer]

It all means what has been happening since the climate "changed", millenia ago and the glaciers began receding from Wisconsin... is continuing... This is no surprise... since it was published in text books of the 1950s... We are living out the end of an "ice age"...

[global warming]

YeaH BUT AT THAT FAST OF RATE? If you look at history everything before 1985 had solid winters big snow espeacially in the 70's and lots of hard ice I remember I couldnt get out of my house without shoveling snow from the doors and it came up to the windows and sometimes more! Also in those days you had to have a extension on your ice auger because some years you would need it the ice would freez over so thick. I live in n/e WI. and its not like that anymore.

[hgmeyer]

What's thirty years in a few hundred million... Look, according to the "records"... over the last 400-450 years since they began to keep records... I believe that the average temps are actually colder now in that span... My point, and every other reasonable report I have read... looks at the long term and says... this is probably normal... When I was a "kid"... the climatologists were predicting a "new ice age" coming...

These guys can't get tomorrow's forecast right more than 1/3 of the time and they are telling us what will happen in 100-200-300 years...

We were supposed to have an even more terrible hurricane season in 2006 because of global warming... poof it's over and not one major storm hit the US...

You want to "worry" about man's effects on this planet let's look at what the USACE has done to the Mississippi and Missouri rivers...

Now that is something to be concerned about... The Mississippi River I knew as a kid in the 50s and 60s is gone forever... That is something that "man" did and nobody is squawking big time on MSNBC...

Why, it's not dramatic and doesn;'t inflame passion and it is too real... somebody might have to really do something real instead of pontificating and spouting PC rhetoric...

[ScottL]

What's next you ask? Somebody will apply for and receive a grant to push the ice island back to where it broke off from. Then surgically reattach it with plates, rods, cables and pins. Next they will pump water into the cracks to refreeze it together and then drive a Zamboni back in forth to make it look better than new. All in the name of natural resource preservation.
Regards,

Scott Lee

Since there is six times as much water as dry land on earth, any fool
can plainly see the good Lord meant for man to fish six times as much as he works.

[bigfish1965]

>What's thirty years in a few hundred million... Look,
>according to the "records"... over the last 400-450 years
>since they began to keep records... I believe that the average
>temps are actually colder now in that span...

Completely not true. Global temps have climbed steadily over the last 100 years and even moreso since the dawn of the 'Oil Economies'.



My point, and
>every other reasonable report I have read... looks at the
>long term and says... this is probably normal... When I was
>a "kid"... the climatologists were predicting a "new ice age"
>coming...
A new ice age would be the natural progression of the earth over the next 10-20,000 years.

>These guys can't get tomorrow's forecast right more than 1/3
>of the time and they are telling us what will happen in
>100-200-300 years...
There's a big difference in predicting exactly where it will rain and tabulating data to show trends in climate changes. Bad strawman argument.

>We were supposed to have an even more terrible hurricane
>season in 2006 because of global warming... poof it's over and
>not one major storm hit the US...

But 2005 sure made up for it didn't it? The El Nino was stronger than anticipated and altered the expected pathways of the storms coming across the ocean.

>You want to "worry" about man's effects on this planet let's
>look at what the USACE has done to the Mississippi and
>Missouri rivers...
>
>Now that is something to be concerned about... The
>Mississippi River I knew as a kid in the 50s and 60s is gone
>forever... That is something that "man" did and nobody is
>squawking big time on MSNBC...

Also a huge and terrible problem. But it doesn't take away from this one.Global warming is a global crisis.

>Why, it's not dramatic and doesn;'t inflame passion and it is
>too real... somebody might have to really do something real
>instead of pontificating and spouting PC rhetoric...

Which is so much worse than the naysayer rhetoric (?)

[hgmeyer]

Believe as you see it... I have reviewed with a physicist long detailed information and from 1500-2000 the average temps on the surface decreased... From 1960 to 1980 temps decreased... from 1980 to 2005 temps increased... the long term fluctuations are "up" and "down"... So in 1960 in the era of muscle cars and bfore any poluttion controls the oil economy was causing a new ice age... At one point in the past it was warm enough to farm the coast of Greenland... "that's a fact Jack"... But you can't now... and that was in the "Dark Ages"... way before the oil economies.

And, the most striking influence seems to be solar activity which has the closest parallels to the temp charts...

Of course as I said... this isn't something off a surprise... Oil is derived from the long ago dead lush tropical forest that covered the earth... Glaciers were in Wisconsin... Illinois was at the bottom of an inland sea... all documented... The climate on this little tiny globe is always changing... changing long before the "oil economies".

Of course, the hole in the ozone is going to eventually kill us all... Although the one that hovers over New Zealand hasn't done them in yet... but it will... Al Gore promises it...

[tennesse tuxedo]

Should the question be, are we influencing global weather? The latest info I've seen that makes sense is that global warming will cause the next ice age i.e., decrease salinitiy in the upper (northern)oceans will decrease oceans currents and boom, the next ice age. To think that we are not influencing global weather is just foolishness. Besides dumping large amounts of pollutines into the air year after year, we also have less forested areas than any time in the last couple thousand years. I think that tree factor is way underestimated, they consume huge quantities of co2 and have a direct cooling of the earth with their foliage. The weather channel had a special on how when storms would approach atlanta, the heat from the city would divert storms coming there way. Expect wild extremes, we've created them.

[Justfishing]

From what I have read is that man puts out only a very small percentage of emissions such as co2, etc. Most of it produced by natural sources such as volcanos, forest fires, underwater sea vents, etc. A recent post on WC noted the methane produced by cows. What about the dung from all sources. North America has more trees than it has ever had. Now the reduction of forests in other parts of the world may be another story. To place the blame on our burning fossil fuels is probably short sighted. I doubt that even a 50% reduction in the use of fossil fuels would have an impact on the climate given all the other sources.

[Fish_on]

Media Shows Irrational Hysteria on Global Warming

"The Public Has Been Vastly Misinformed," NCPA's Deming Tells Senate Committee

12/6/2006 5:57:00 PM

To: National Desk

Contact: Sean Tuffnell of the National Center for Policy Analysis, 972-308-6481 or sean.tuffnell@ncpa.org

WASHINGTON, Dec. 6 /U.S. Newswire/ -- David Deming, an associate professor at the University of Oklahoma and an adjunct scholar with the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA), testified this morning at a special hearing of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. The hearing examined climate change and the media. Bellow are excerpts from his prepared remarks.

"In 1995, I published a short paper in the academic journal Science. In that study, I reviewed how borehole temperature data recorded a warming of about one degree Celsius in North America over the last 100 to 150 years. The week the article appeared, I was contacted by a reporter for National Public Radio. He offered to interview me, but only if I would state that the warming was due to human activity. When I refused to do so, he hung up on me.

"I had another interesting experience around the time my paper in Science was published. I received an astonishing email from a major researcher in the area of climate change. He said, "We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period." "The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was a time of unusually warm weather that began around 1000 AD and persisted until a cold period known as the "Little Ice Age" took hold in the 14th century. ... The existence of the MWP had been recognized in the scientific literature for decades. But now it was a major embarrassment to those maintaining that the 20th century warming was truly anomalous. It had to be "gotten rid of."

"In 1999, Michael Mann and his colleagues published a reconstruction of past temperature in which the MWP simply vanished. This unique estimate became known as the "hockey stick," because of the shape of the temperature graph. "Normally in science, when you have a novel result that appears to overturn previous work, you have to demonstrate why the earlier work was wrong. But the work of Mann and his colleagues was initially accepted uncritically, even though it contradicted the results of more than 100 previous studies. Other researchers have since reaffirmed that the Medieval Warm Period was both warm and global in its extent.

"There is an overwhelming bias today in the media regarding the issue of global warming. In the past two years, this bias has bloomed into an irrational hysteria. Every natural disaster that occurs is now linked with global warming, no matter how tenuous or impossible the connection. As a result, the public has become vastly misinformed."

---

The NCPA is an internationally known nonprofit, nonpartisan research institute with offices in Dallas and Washington, D. C. that advocates private solutions to public policy problems. NCPA depends on the contributions of individuals, corporations and foundations that share our mission. The NCPA accepts no government grants.

http://www.usnewswire.com/

[doubleheader unlogged]

The weather is the latest subject to be sensationalized. Doesn't matter whether it's long term global warning or ice age predictions, or short term events such as a a winter storm, a hurricane, or a tornadoe, it is going to be sensationalized. Sad thing is, there are other very real and undisputable threats to our world that the same media just can't seem to understand. I'd say more but if i did I'd surely get nuked.

[Ed.Bryd]

In today's (1/3/07) news


Group: ExxonMobil paid to mislead public

Wed Jan 3, 2:15 PM ET

ExxonMobil Corp. gave $16 million to 43 ideological groups between 1998 and 2005 in a coordinated effort to mislead the public by discrediting the science behind global warming, the Union of Concerned Scientists asserted Wednesday.

The report by the science-based nonprofit advocacy group mirrors similar claims by Britain's leading scientific academy. Last September, The Royal Society wrote the oil company asking it to halt support for groups that "misrepresented the science of climate change."

ExxonMobil did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the scientific advocacy group's report.

Many scientists say accumulating carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases from tailpipes and smokestacks are warming the atmosphere like a greenhouse, melting Arctic sea ice, alpine glaciers and disturbing the lives of animals and plants.

ExxonMobil lists on its Web site nearly $133 million in 2005 contributions globally, including $6.8 million for "public information and policy research" distributed to more than 140 think-tanks, universities, foundations, associations and other groups. Some of those have publicly disputed the link between greenhouse gas emissions and global warming.

But in September, the company said in response to the Royal Society that it funded groups which research "significant policy issues and promote informed discussion on issues of direct relevance to the company." It said the groups do not speak for the company.

Alden Meyer, the Union of Concerned Scientists' strategy and policy director, said in a teleconference that ExxonMobil based its tactics on those of tobacco companies, spreading uncertainty by misrepresenting peer-reviewed scientific studies or cherry-picking facts.

Dr. James McCarthy, a professor at Harvard University, said the company has sought to "create the illusion of a vigorous debate" about global warming.

[AlW]

Old saying, figures never lie, but lier's sometime figure...
Means basically you can make whatever numbers say what you want.
So while some preach gloom and doom about global warming, some say its a myth and not to worry, ya get to pick what ya believe.

Personally I'm somewhere in the middle, but don't much care either way, overpopulation is the main problem in my mind, but ya don't hear much about that anymore, as the solution isn't sensitive enough for most.

Al

[Its the SUN]

The sun is heating up...