Who's to blame?

[dutchboy]

I've been giving alot of thought lately about all the shootings, maybe the Denver Bronco kid got me thinking more about it. Like many of us I was quick to think it's drugs, poor family background, hanging with the wrong crowd ect. While thinking about it I noticed I was always laying blame on the kids. Like they should always know better.

Today I was listening to ESPN and also the Jim Rome show. Both of them touched on the Nick Saban jumping from the Dolphins to coach Alabama. Their take was he repeatedly stated he wasn't moving to Alabama. Then boom, gone. The fact he was under contract didn't seem to matter. ( I suppose he has an escape clause) He isn't the only one to have done it. It seems alot of these big time coaches and players seem to ignore the fact they gave their word when they signed that contract. The agents and owners allow them to get away with it. So now in essense their word means nothing. And how are they punished? With multi-million dollar contracts! In Sabans case it was reported to be a GUARANTEED contract! By a college president! The guy entrusted with educating our kids!

So, where is a young teenager going to believe that's it's not ok to go ahead and do whatever they want? When we don't hold adults to their word (contract) what makes us think these kids are getting the idea they need to follow the rules? Granted this really has very little to do with the morals of the population today. However I think it does play at least a small part.

It must be hard when the kids look to their rock stars and see them shooting each other or overdosing on drugs. Look to the leaders of industry and see them going to jail for defrauding their investors. Look at their sports stars and see them accused of drug and steriod use. Look everywhere and see people get out of contracts just because Joe got just alittle more money. Look to the government, the theme there is budgets are only guidelines, we need more money, we will raise taxes.

As I'm searching for who is to blame for all of this I think just maybe a quick trip pass the mirror maybe a place to start looking.

[karpbuster]

I think bad things happen. We all have to stand for something. What do you stand for?

That Miami Coach what does he stand for? Lying, dishonesty, greed...well he may have some good traits too, but that is what he bowls down to. Our maybe he has lower standards. It all comes down to people like you and me.

You can't fix the world, just figure out what you stand for and stand by that.

Happy New Years.

karpbuster

[Crappie Kid]

"Didn't do it" - Shawshank Redemption

[Unlogged Dad]

Electronic devices of entertainment have replaced living, loving, caring and guiding parents who are available to a child's needs. It has gotten worse and worse and worse since the 50's.
A darn poor job of upbringing, by massive numbers of parents in our country.
No values or improper values inadvertently taught or observed.
Lack of fundamental training to produce good morals, proper manners, respect for self and for others, no goal setting, no teaching right from wrong.
A slow breakdown of traditional American culture and pride.
Lack of discipline. Lack of concern for others. Lack of consequences for intolerable behavior.
Lack of PARENTING SKILLS!
Laziness, whether drug induced, booze induced, electronic entertainment induced or whatever.
No guts by too many parents.
Just a crappy job by massive number of people who seem to produce babies but have little interest in them once they have them.

:rant:

[tbomn]

All of the above........but mostly...GREED. And they do it because they can...end of story. It is pretty much to late to change it, just learn to work around it. I like the comment "What do you stand for?" Some people can live with any label that is put on them, I like the labels, integrity, pride, honor, honesty. Not everyone sees it my way...OH WELL!!

[lund84]

Well said Eric!

We need to stop holding the athletes up as gods. Upon entering Akron, Ohio the welcome sign says "Home of Lebron James". You mean to tell me that is what Akron is now famous for. How is it that you can be paid 4 million to coach a football team at a university that pays its professors less than custodians? It is time that we take back the USA and provide for those that are positive role models in society. There should be realistic salaries for the pros so that a family can actually attend a game, no more delay of jail time because they are in season(this has even happened at the HS level), and no contact sports before middle school. Schools should be recognized for the education they provide not whether they are undefeated on the field. By the way, I have been a HS coach for over 20 years and have watched as the moral fiber of our youth have been moved from a sense of playing for the sport to playing for the thrill of being that million dollar athlete. Blame the media, blame the parents, blame the sport but, stop the rage that is out of control.

[Darren MT]

We live in a society where people aren't held accountable for their actions. It's hard to fire dead beat workers (they have more rights than employers). Lazy, worthless people manage to get by without working (there is an expectation for society to care for them). Kids with learning or behavioral problems are treated special because they may have some kind of emotional "disorder" that is accepted as an excuse. We provide all kinds of rationale for violent people, blaming everyone and everything but the person themself. You can't publicly criticize anyone because it is considered "insensitive."

Our judicial system is geared more toward toward rehabilitating criminals rather than punishing them. For the right price, a good lawyer can prevent people from being punished for doing things they should be punished for. For the right price, a good lawyer can punish people for doing things they don't deserve to be punished for (frivilous civil suits).

The entertainment industry has glorified, and likely encouraged, violent and morally destructive behavior. As kids, most of us used to get upset looking at a dead relative laying in the casket at their funeral. My parents wouldn't even let me go to a funeral until I was about 12 because they feared it would be too upsetting. Too many kids today are exposed to so much realistic graphic violence, in the name of entertainment, that they are becoming desensitized to human suffering.

Basic christian beliefs and principals are under fire, believed by many to threaten our diverse population. But, we welcome what has historically been considered abnormal and immoral behavior to accomodate such diversity. Military and government leaders are not even respected or trusted, much less admired. True heroes and civic leaders receive no recognition. On the other hand, hypocritical Hollywood celebrities are idolized. Gangster Rap musicians, whose lyrics are beyond belief, are absolutely worshipped by kids and young adults. Unethical, illicit drug using, sports "heroes" are national icons.

Somehow we have allowed this to evolve. Being an old fashioned type, it kind of scares me to predict where we're headed. Despite our problems, I'm proud to be an American and realize we still have the one of the best lifestyles on earth. All in all, we are a good people.

[FisHn2DMax]

Darren,

Very well Stated!!!

[DaveB]

I blame MTV and Govt assistance, in that order.

[bob oh]

no post

[Opti-Mist]

I agree with "GREED" as a causation, but it is the manifestation of "SELF-CENTEREDNESS". Its all about me!

[ReelDiel]

all good points...the sign of Lebron james don't bother me as he comes off as a respectable, caring young man who is handling his role in society with responsibilty. its the home of Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony who are narasitic self serving gangbangers who can play ball. athletes shoul be paid on skill and there social responsiblity....can you see that happening....george s., jerry jones

[TL]

Well said, we need people like you to take a more active role in society. The problem is if you do you will be crucified by the entitlement crowd.

[modern america]

you get the behavior you reward = Clinton was ADORED (by the media and culture) for fornication and sex and scandle.

(For that matter, ALL Hollywood is ADORED for scandle, drugs, fast money, cheating, sex and adultery.

So, that's what they grow up with.

But, sad to say, the media and culture CONDEMN those who "dare" criticize the immoral behavior.


So dont you dare criticize any immoral behavior "espeacially if you live in the USA"! It is our culture that idolizes these types of things.

WAKE THE H. UP AMERICA! GET VALUES AND MORALS INSTALLED!

[bdirks]

One has nothing to do with the other.

Darren pretty well hit most of the high points.

I am sorry Dutch but the Nick Saban deal has nothing to do with the demise of society. I honestly don't have a huge problem with the whole Saban deal and how he handled it. Here are my 3 points.

1. If Saban had stayed with the Dolphins, the outcome of next season is not pre-determined. Things happen and the Dolphins could win 3 games next year. Do you honestly believe that the Dolodhins wouldn't fire him to "go in a new direction?" These two situations are why they have contracts, for the protection of both parties.

2. I love how people say that Saban is a liar. What in the world was he supposed to say? If I were within ear shot, or in this case multiple press conferences that are recorded and can be replayed, and I had no offer on the table, I would deny interest also. After the 10th time of being asked, I would get hostile and declare my non-interest. Once I received an offer, in privacy, then I would evaluate it. I have yet to hear someone say publically that they are looking for a new job, while they are employed by someone in the same field. Look at what happened to Jim Mora at Atlanta. This can be applied to nearly everyone in the private sector. Notice I said private sector of business, public employees are a whole different ballgame.

3. If Saban said he is leaving because of family reasons, then I believe him. Having been to Miami/S. Florida, and Tuscaloosa, I would agree that Tuscaloosa is a much better place to raise a family. Less crime, better family/smaller community atmosphere, and a lower cost of living. Also, if the new offer from Bama is a better deal, relative job security, increase in pay, community acceptance, then he owes it to himself and even more so, his family to take the better deal.

Isn't it amazing that a dealing in sports is believed to be so important that it has a role in the moral deterioration of this country. I think we need to re-evalute the importance of sports and entertainment in our country.

Brian

[Easy Fellers]

Lets not forget that the United States is full of young men and women who are responsible and want to make a difference. You need to look no farther than the Armed Forces and the thousands of young Americans who risk their lives everyday to protect our shores and defend freedom for us and anyplace in the world where oppression rules. Don't overlook the thousands of young men and women who attend our institutes of higher learning and are focused on obtaining the skill set that will allow them to become responsible citizens.

Sometimes we all focus to much on what's wrong and not what's right. We respond just like our news media and sensationalize the fool and his unsavory ways instead of telling our young people who are responsible that we are proud of what they are doing to make their and our lives better.

We each have plenty to do ourselves to clean up our own acts and provide leadership to those lives that we can touch. Setting a good example may be the best thing that we can do. Heaven forbid, our older generation has plenty of fools who always have been and will continue to be bottom feeders. Find one,try to change him or her....good luck.

[Blackmacs]

Hopefully some of your students have seen it your way. :)

[Buckeye unlogged]

The greed theory is a sound one but I'll take it one step further.

How do people overcome greed and do what is right and fair? The ones that do have a solid foundation of right and wrong. Period. As each generation passes and that becomes less common, our society will continue the direction it's headed.

Blame it on drugs, blame it on the high divorce rate, blame it on whatever....but it still boils down to somebody having a very basic and POSITIVE influence on a child's social development. i.e. "this is right, and this is wrong". Historically, that foundation comes from one or both parents. Sometimes situations prevent that and it is becoming more and more common to see others trying to reach youngsters such as clergy, youth centers, teachers, etc.

As far as the Saban thing goes, Ol' Nick (I call him "Suitcase Saban") has always been willing to bolt for greener pastures, and always will. I say go for it.... that's the very fabric of our free enterprise society to have the opportunity to make your fortune. With that said, I think he should be more careful about the message he sends to the kids he is coaching and not make promises he he knows he may or may not keep.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how steep the 'Bama tuition hikes will be to pay for Saban (and finish paying off Shula)? If they had to mortgage the farm(s) to afford the package they still owe Shula plus the one they promised Saban, wouldn't that mean that about half of the state of Alabama has a lien on it now???

[greed]

Both parents having to work is a very real problem in this country. I see it every day at the schools and churches. Children starving for attention. If they can not get it at home, where do they turn too?

A poster above said something about employees having more rights than employers? I disagree, but thank god for these rules for the way some employers act and treat there employees these days. Its all most like a master/ slave mentality these days. As far as you spending time with your family? forget it. I want you here working with no overtime, on every day of the week, at all hours of the day, with little or no time off. If not, you are gone. I under stand that its all about money, but shouldn't there be a balance between work and family? Does it still take a village to raise a child? If you don't show respect, will any be shown to you? Both employees and employers need to remember this! We have seem to lost our sense of community in this country. Its all about me and the golden calf!! Worshipping the golden calf will cause great problems for this country. I believe it will survive, but do we need to go through such hardships before we again have the wisdom to once again be a great country for everyone, not just the rich?

[Sunshine]

Two things...........

We live in the Me Me Society. Everyone wants to know what's in it for them. Parents are more worried about themselves than their kids. Pro players are more worried about themselves than the team. Politicians are more worried about the next election than the people they represent. I could go on and on.............

The most important job in our society is being a parent. Most have forgotten this. I wish that there was a course required for everyone prior to the birth of their first child. If your parents were poor parents chances are you will be too. Where do these people learn how to be good parents if they choose to? Parents can make good choices for their children if they choose. It's okay to tell them that they should not watch the trash on MTV and other channels. It's okay to make them be home at a decent hour. It's okay to be a parent and not their best friend. But then again, parents would have to spend more time with their kids and they will not because of the first comment above.

[greed]

<The most important job in our society is being a parent>

The most important job is to make money. Ask any ceo.

[unlogged rock2me]

>I've been giving alot of thought lately about all the
>shootings, maybe the Denver Bronco kid got me thinking more
>about it. Like many of us I was quick to think it's drugs,
>poor family background, hanging with the wrong crowd ect.
>While thinking about it I noticed I was always laying blame on
>the kids. Like they should always know better.
:rant:
I've been thinking of this, too. It makes me recall a COPS episode where the cops hear gunfire and see a car take off (cops there at the right time). After a short car chase, the perps wreck and the cops converge on the scene. In the back seat is a young man with a black hoodie on, a big black wig and big sunglasses (this is at night). Immediately the cop on the scene knows what's going on and starts off on this kid. How old are you? (teenager) What are you doin'? Then after finding the gun goes off telling him how you're just a kid and who are you to take someone's life... Wow, that hit me. The way these cops acted means they'd seen situations like this in other drive-by shootings (the KID in the back seat, disguised to kill someone). The older people were in the front seat and I'm sure talked the younger one into it, first, because they could and second, if they were caught, he'd probably be out in a couple years. UNBELIEVABLE!

>As I'm searching for who is to blame for all of this I think
>just maybe a quick trip pass the mirror maybe a place to start
>looking.

I believe you are right on this. Take a good look at yourself and what do you see? Are you living a life beyond reproach? Personally, I do my best but it is EASY to go down the "other" road, there is a lot of temptation. It takes vigilance to stay respectable in your own eyes, let alone someone else's.

IMHO - This is the result of the breakdown of a man and a woman raising a child together. It is not a requirement to be married although that is helpful, as it is a "bond" that helps keep people together through the tough times. These children see their parents just walk away when the going gets tough. That is a HUGE influence and normally happens way before they start looking for "role models" outside the family. You cannot think you are going to have respectable children when they have not seen what a respectable person is/does.

Government's influence on the family, providing for those that shirk their responsibilities, is intimately involved here. Prior to the existence of gov't being the dad, it was a Dad or the immediate family who raised the children. As gov't has become the dad, paying the bills, food and shelter, families have drifted apart. We look to the gov't whenever there is a need. In previous generations, you relied upon your family to work together, live together, through good times and many bad times. What will Americans do in bad times, when all the money is sucked up by the 'takers'?

How do you fix this? I don't know that it can be fixed. Unfortunately, we are seeing an America go down-the-tubes at an alarmingly quick pace. I can only impact those around me, so that's what I do. I just hope that my wife, kids and friends see me as someone who tried to be the best person, understanding my stumbles along life's journey.

:rock-on:

[RickyP]

You sure covered a lot of ground in your rant. As far as the murders go, there is only one person responsible. The one who did the deed. There is evil all around us, in many different forms, and in many different degrees. There always will be. End of story.

And I don't quite understand your Nick Saban rant. While I don't condone his actions, he took advantage of a situation to get a better job and more guaranteed money. Are there many among us who wouldn't have done the same thing? Be honest with your answer. Isn't that the American way? Free enterprise at it's best?

[pepe]

dutchboy you sure opened up a can of worms. this has been a good post and i have enjoyed reading all the comments. i recall listening to a basketball player (charles barkley) say that he didnt want to be a role model for our kids he said that the parents of the children should be their role model. i didnt agree with him on anything else he said but he was right on that one. i dont want our children to look up to those sport athletes either. just look at them. how many of them in the colleges and the pro-ranks have been arrested. take a kid fishing or hunting and teach him the good things that are available to him, and show them lots of love. take them to church with you and teach them to pray and learn the ten commandements. you had better teach them, or someone else will teach them what you dont want them to learn....pepe

[dutchboy]

Thanks to all of you who checked out this post! :bowdown:

The purpose was to get us all to slow down and think alittle bit about the stuff we see every day. I think we have done that.

The reference to Saban was two fold, which I didn't explain very well. I'll try again. My problem with the whole thing was that we are now letting people out of contracts that they sign. I don't begrudge anyone for moving on and up to bigger and better things. If that is in your mind, agree to just a one year contract. Want security? Sign for more years with the understanding that there will be a financial penalty if you leave early. (imposed at the employers discretion) Or they may deny that you leave,insist you honor your contract. On the other hand, if the employer or University wants a multi year deal and decides to fire you, instead of "buying out" the contract they should be required to pay it in full. As it stands the contracts are worthless. The fact that anyone is being offered a long term contract ( 5+ years) to play or coach is something that borders on insanity anyway. That's another subject for another time.

It seems the majority of the people who responded believe a single parent family is a major cause for the bahavior we are now seeing. I agree with that to a point. It doesn't really solve the question of why it is now ok to shoot someone rather then face them and slug them in the mouth. First I think the shooters are basicly cowards. Second I don't see how graphic video games can be a positive force in anyones life, let alone a kid. Third, I agree with someone who said the kids are reaching out for attention.(Here I'm talking about school shootings and work place shootings) Yep, shooting somebody will get you on TV and in the newspapers. I don't think ever under any cicumstances should a killers name or photo be published. I think it just reinforces the ability to get noticed.

Anybody remember the name of the guy killing and eating people in Wisconsin a few years ago? Can you pick out his picture? I'll bet most people here can. Why? because it was all over the news. And what purpose did that serve other then selling ad space?

Thanks again to those who are taking the time here.........

[Ed Gein]

The Dahmer was a real sicko. That would only happen in todays American society. Never in the 50s perfect world. I think maybe its all the commies in Hollywood. Gee our old La Salle ran great, those were the dayssssss!!!

[swede sd]

Just two things to say. 1 Screw the touchie-feely PC crowd. 2 String um up, it will teach um a lesson.

[greed]

Does that include all religious leaders in the touchy feely crowd?