I test drove a Tundra today...

[darin]

After putting a little money into my '01 Silverado, we decided it might be best to trade/sell it and get a new truck. Went to MIlwaukee to test drive an '07 with 11K on it and really didn't care for it. I think they look cool, and they're all right, I guess. But not any better than my current truck. I was surprised. I expected to be impressed with the power and ride. I think it's more powerful if you're stomping on it, but really I didn't like it any better than mine...

[F 150]

I bought the Silverados in the late 70 and 80's then the F-150 re- did everthing in the mid 90's and I have been completly impressed with them, I have never had any problems at all, my other hard head Chev. freinds switched to f 150's as well because the silverados always seemed to have a problem and it wasent just a coencidence either. As far as Tundra, I dont think anybody can top the F-150.

[sjjjj]

The only problem with Chevy and Ford, is you are not sure if the companies are going to be around in the future...I tend to keep my trucks for awhile, so the toyota was an easy decision for me. However I think they are all pretty much about the same in quality, just comes down to personal preference...sj

[kliph]

GM and Chevy will be here for as long as I'm here. Why not?

[tly]

Just got the new Dodge magazine today. The 2009 1500 is really something. Lots of rework and neat locking side storage in sides of bed as well as improved/enlarged cab storage areas. My 2003 1500 has 170+ on it and I just replaced rack & pinion and a had a couple brake jobs but still original plugs, wires and everything else.
The 4+4 MDS or whatever has been out a couple years and presumably gets improved gas mileage. I get 16-18 on hwy with my old hemi as well as it can merge into traffic quite nicely.

Drive what you like. I doubt any of them are bad as products altho infividual units may have problems.

When I saw the Tundra post silly me thought it might be a Tracker Tundra.

[sjjjj]

Logic would dictate otherwise....

[Shadbuster UL]

Why sell a 01 so soon?

[wallyhunter66]

I have worked in the manufacturing business for the last 15 years. That being said, products made in the US are every bit the equal of the imports, alot of them are superior! As I see it, I love my country,therefore I will buy american as much as I can. People say, they are made here!!! Yup, they are, but where do the profits go? If I ever see anyone on this website cry over a lost job or hard times because of the economy, and they have a toyota, nissan, honda or anything other than a big 3, I will tell them, " you got what was coming to you!"!!!!!.........Nuff Said!...............Todd}( }( }( ........... PS. lets not forget the poison dogfood, date rape drug and all the lead for our kids!!!!

[Tim Kelly]

Aren't a lot of the "japanese" trucks made in the US, by Americans, and a lot of the "American" trucks made in Mexico and other latin American countries by non- Americans?

The only Americans profitting form the foreign production are the shareholders, where the "Japanese" trucks are putting food on the tables of lots of American workers?




Retreats to bunker and closes hatch! ;-)

[buyamerican]

Yep, the current condition of the state of Michigan is a prime example of what buying American can do to you. I do know the figures at this point, but I would bet that foreign car companies employee equal or perhaps more Americans at this point. Also what makes you think when and if the big 3 turn a profit that the money is invested here? Very few companies keep their profits in the US...Being a good and educated consumer is good for our country...Blind faith in a plummeting company is about the worst thing you can do for the US at this point...Jason

[wallyhunter66]

OK Tim, let me go slow so you understand how business works. Very very wealthy people own business, not the working class bum, like me. That being said lets look at the guy like you that buys these imports, profits go to the country of origin, no very very wealthy people here. Soon import company doesnt sell product here. Factories close down, not the ones in the other countries, but here. bad chain reaction............. no jobs for me and you!......no very very wealthy people to give us jobs, they all live in another country. Tim, just 1 question, you ever work for a poor man? If you have I would like to know where and when, because you would be the very first! If this doent make sense to you, try reading a few books by economists, dont take my word for it!

[buyamerican]

>OK Tim, let me go slow so you understand how business works.
>Very very wealthy people own business, not the working class
>bum, like me. That being said lets look at the guy like you
>that buys these imports, profits go to the country of origin,
>no very very wealthy people here. Soon import company doesnt
>sell product here. Factories close down, not the ones in the
>other countries, but here. bad chain reaction............. no
>jobs for me and you!......no very very wealthy people to give
>us jobs, they all live in another country. Tim, just 1
>question, you ever work for a poor man? If you have I would
>like to know where and when, because you would be the very
>first! If this doent make sense to you, try reading a few
>books by economists, dont take my word for it!


I would love to read those books of yours, could you suggest one that supports you ideas above? Also give me a reason as to why you think the foreign car companies would leave? Also I am curious as to why you think the money goes the home country. As of late it seems that foreign companies are investing their profits by buying up much of the US...But please enlighten us with you knowledge...Jason

[wallyhunter66]

Again Jason, try reading a few books by the top economists. Might enlighten you just a tad. also try looking at the quality numbers of the big 3 vehicles, as compared to the imports! Todays numbers, not 10 years ago. The lowest ranking GM was made for them....... by whom you might ask? Why it was Toyota. Please, if you wish to debate me on this topic, please take the time to do some reasearch, so you have a little more knowlege before the debate. I dont mind going head to head with you, its just a whole lot more fun when it isnt so easy.

[wallyhunter66]

Allan Greenspan, Ever heard of him?

[wallyhunter66]

Also, you made a great point! Ask any Aussie how he feels about Japan owning sush vast amounts of his country!

[buyamerican]

He said that the foreign automakers are going to shut down their operations here in the USA and head home? Seriously I would love to read this if you could provide the book. It is not a concept I have come across in my education and look forward to researching it...thanks, Jason

[rabb]

>I have worked in the manufacturing business for the last 15
>years. That being said, products made in the US are every bit
>the equal of the imports, alot of them are superior! As I see
>it, I love my country,therefore I will buy american as much as
>I can. People say, they are made here!!! Yup, they are, but
>where do the profits go? If I ever see anyone on this website
>cry over a lost job or hard times because of the economy, and
>they have a toyota, nissan, honda or anything other than a big
>3, I will tell them, " you got what was coming to
>you!"!!!!!.........Nuff Said!...............Todd}( }( }(
>........... PS. lets not forget the poison dogfood, date rape
>drug and all the lead for our kids!!!!


I am with you 1000%, I like the bumper sticker, "Lost your job, keep buying foreign."

[wallyhunter66]

Thanks for the support Rabb. Jason, you have to have some insite on the economy, these other companies came here because there was such a huge market, right? Well if that market dries up (I.E. the current state of our economy) why be here? I am never gonna tell you a little competition will hurt any market, never ever! But, lets all play on the same field. Even out the trade, take a real look at the quality......... across the board, not just 1 or 2 models. the reason the other companies came here was because the tariffs placed on them because they didnt import any of our products, therefore it was less expensive to build a factory here. Like I said, I am not against a little competition, that just makes all the products better, but lets all play the same game with the same rules. I would bet my "left boy" we win!

[buyamerican]

>Thanks for the support Rabb. Jason, you have to have some
>insite on the economy, these other companies came here because
>there was such a huge market, right? Well if that market dries
>up (I.E. the current state of our economy) why be here? I am
>never gonna tell you a little competition will hurt any
>market, never ever! But, lets all play on the same field. Even
>out the trade, take a real look at the quality......... across
>the board, not just 1 or 2 models. the reason the other
>companies came here was because the tariffs placed on them
>because they didnt import any of our products, therefore it
>was less expensive to build a factory here. Like I said, I am
>not against a little competition, that just makes all the
>products better, but lets all play the same game with the same
>rules. I would bet my "left boy" we win!

Actually due to economic and gas woes, they came here. During the first gas crises, they offered cars to Americans that helped improved the situation, while the big 3 still offered the big gas guzzlers. Now with a gas crises and slowing economy Toyota has 51% of the hybrid market. Your reasoning is flawed, the big three are going down the tubes because they don't care about providing a product that helps or is attractive to the customer. Any innovation they have had is only to keep up, not to lead. The market will not dry up for the foreign cars and trucks, as they get a larger share of the market each day. During an economic downturn is when they are at their finest. The only time the big 3 shine is when people can afforded to drive big suv's...Take a look at the numbers...jason

[Tim Kelly]

I imagine the only real reasons Japanese companies build their trucks in America is because they have import restrictions placed on them by the US government, otherwise they'd be building them abroad where it's cheaper like the American companies do.

A very minor secondary reason might be that they can rightly argue that their trucks are American made when people say they want to by (foreign built) "American" trucks to support our American tycoons! (Rather than the American workers employed by the Japanese companies of course!)

[SteveJ]

I would guess Americans have a significant amount of money is invested in Toyota. Most pension plans and 401(k) plans have international funds or stocks in their portfolios. Astute investment advisors recommend international funds or stocks to stabilize the performance of domentic investments in a pension fund or 401(k) plan. In addition, we have been able to invest directly in Toyota via the NYSE since September 29, 1999. Without doing the research, I would bet that Toyota stock has been a better investment over the past 10 years than any of the big three.

When you talk about putting food on the table her in the United State, Toyota, Nissan and Honda are doing a better job than our Big 3. Employment at Ford, GM and Chrysler are shrinking in the US while the Toyota, Honda and Nissan are growing. Even Ford’s great news that they made a “small” profit in the last quarter had a down side. If you read the article, they still lost money in the US, but made it up elsewhere.

We have experienced a lot of growth of foreign based companies building cars in the US market by US workers for sale is the US. Geographically this growth is not necessarily replacing the loss of workers by the Big 3. They are going where they can get the best overall deal and that may not be in communities that are used to UAW wages and benefits.

[wallyhunter66]

Like I said Jason do a little research. Why are the other companies building the big SUVs if thats the only place we beat them? Also My history may be a little off, but was there a gas crunch in the 80s? I guess I am a rich man and didnt notice? ( the Nissan plant in Tenn. was built in the mid 80s) I also said quality across the board, that means ALL models! We can keep going Jason, I really dont mind!!!! :boxing:

[buyamerican]

I would keep it going, but it started in the 70's when the first ciris took place, they came over. There really is no argument, just get annual reports for each company. Look at who is hiring and who is laying off. Look at market share and the trends. You still never produced the sources that you attributed to Greenspan, because it is not true what you said. I was not debating, but trying to help you sound a bit more logical. It is like teaching class my friend...Jason

[wallyhunter66]

SteveJ, again lets just all play the same game on the same field! Until we do this, every point you made is basically null and void! Equal trade, it would be like me playing pro football, it would be great to watch, but not because I would keep up in any way shape or form, but because most people would not be able to stop laughing at me! Now lets put a 300 pound vest on all the real players? who knows, i probably still wouldnt be able to keep up but i might be able to stay in the game, as i am not an athlete. Like I said competition make all products better, but why not make the rules for all to follow, not just the US exports?

[buyamerican]

Seeing as the only profit Ford reported was due to international sales, I would say the field is level unless you feel foreign companies should give the big 3 subsidies to help them keep up:)

[wallyhunter66]

you mean like the US did for the imports Jason? And your class seems to be taught by the same teachers in the new Ben Stein documentory! :banging:

[wallyhunter66]

Oh, If you have not read the Greenspan book, then it really isnt my job to do your research for you, now is it?

[SteveJ]

Does your response mean that you are proposing protectionism? Maybe we should have done some done that in some form years ago. We have had our anti dumping rules, but even those were largely unsuccessful. Certainly the Japanese did practice protectionism, and they were very successful for a number of years.

It’s probably way to late now that we have a global economy. It seems to me that we need to learn how to compete in a global economy. We need to design and build products here in the good old USA that people in other countries want or need, not just import things that we want. The problem is that most of our goods are too costly to be competitive elsewhere. If they weren’t there would be more demand for US made goods in other countries.

Now we might want to let the originator of this post have his post back. He was talking about vehicles not asking for a lesson in economics. If I remember correctly, he was comparing his 2001 Big 3 pickup to a Toyota Tundra.

[wallyhunter66]

You are so right Steve! I have some lead painted toys for your kids with the date rape drug in them and some poison dog food for your lab! yep lets test the life out of our products and let the "better quality and less costly" ones in! Ever wonder why 100% of all imigrants come here? I think it has something to do with the way we live? I dont want to give up my way of life because you feel we need to give the other countries our money to buy these equal products. Ask all the chinese workers about the way they live? Do they have a walleye boat? Do they have a chance to ever own one? I think maybe some of the people that think like this should go there and live, just for a 10 year stint. Maybe they might see things in a new light!

[Somethins_Fishy]

>You are so right Steve! I have some lead painted toys for
>your kids with the date rape drug in them and some poison dog
>food for your lab! yep lets test the life out of our products
>and let the "better quality and less costly" ones in! Ever
>wonder why 100% of all imigrants come here? I think it has
>something to do with the way we live? I dont want to give up
>my way of life because you feel we need to give the other
>countries our money to buy these equal products. Ask all the
>chinese workers about the way they live? Do they have a
>walleye boat? Do they have a chance to ever own one? I think
>maybe some of the people that think like this should go there
>and live, just for a 10 year stint. Maybe they might see
>things in a new light!


I'm Somethins_Fishy and I support this message !!!

[Pokey Fisherman]

Getting back to the original subject. I was in the market for a new truck this fall and I decide to look at them all. I was a ford guy then bought my first Dodge Ram in 95, put 227,000 miles on it with a few problems. The first thing I did was test drive them all and was split between the Ram and the Tundra, I had eliminated the rest because of features or bad handling. Then for about 2 months I read about them on the net and followed a web site for the 07 Tundra, at first I was sold on the Tundra but the more I read about what other Tundra owners where saying about their truck turned me off to them. It appeared that Toyota was trying to compete with the big 3 in number game and was cutting the quality of the truck, not in one aspect but several but they had one thing in common - to make the truck cheaper.

Here is a list of the items That I was concerned about.

1. They had a problem with the clutch in the torque converter so it felt like you where driving over rumble strips and they where not sure if it was hardware or software related.

2. The interior plastic had painted on color and guys were having problems with the color coming off when they would clean the interior. Toyotas answer to it was to repaint the panels.

3. The bed would tune-up on certain ruff highways and visibly shack and was traced to the light weight frame design under the bed.

4. The sheet metal of the bed was real light and would dent real easy, guys were reporting that if they reached over the bed side to get something out they found that they had left dents in the side or if you leaned against the side it dented.

5. The tailgates where cracking at the hinge points and had reports of people getting hurt when the gate failed. I haul a ATV and other heavy things in the bed and didn't want this happen to me.

By now maybe these items have been fixed and resigned but at the time this is what I found about the Tundra. It was going to cost more money than a domestic truck but they had a higher resale valve but I'm not one to trade in, I run it until its rusted out. My advice to you is to do a lot of research on the internet and don't take the word of a few people, don't be quick to make your mind up and be open minded.

I finally bought a 08 Ram with the lifetime powertrain warranty and as long as they stay in business I will be happy and I know there will be problem with most any vehicle.

[Tim Kelly]

Ever
>wonder why 100% of all imigrants come here?

Same reason 100% of all emigrants leave I would imagine!

[buyamerican]

They may make bad dog food, but what about all of the food recalls we have here in the US for bad beef and produce? How about the tire recall a few years back. How about most american cars from the 70's,80's and early 90's?How about the fact that american companies are selling the lead based toys and bad dog food? How about using a bit of commonsense? Also Greenspan never said what you paraphrased, it is just not true...Jason

[wallyhunter66]

"

[wallyhunter66]

Ever
>wonder why 100% of all imigrants come here?

Same reason 100% of all emigrants leave I would imagine!
You are 100% totally right Tim Kelly! Just one question, "when are you going?"

[wallyhunter66]

Oh, If you have not read the Greenspan book, then it really isnt my job to do your research for you, now is it?

[buyamerican]

>Oh, If you have not read the Greenspan book, then it really
>isnt my job to do your research for you, now is it?
I am saying you either grossly misunderstood it or you are making it up...pick either explanation, better than just assuming you are lying..Jason

[Really]

So thats why GM is having a huge recall on damages due to its coolant ?

So why are Gms' 3800 v6's having such huge problems with head gasket failure? Any why does Gm continue to use both a cheap, failure prone gasket, and a mosre costly metal head gasket?

All those marketing numbers, including JD Powers surveys are just about worthless. They measure ower satisfaction upon delivery of the vehicle, which is a goal very easily mastered. What really matters is the cost of ownership/replairs over a long period of time. Much longer than those surveys which generally are in the 3 year range. If yhou look at those statistics, you will see that the current American vehicles, although admittedly inproved, fall short of the major Japaneese (most noteably Toyota)

Profits going to American companies used to be important. When they no longer have a workforce here, the American workers do not see any effect of those profits. Only the corporate elete and the sharholders have any gains. Most economists still adhere to the old idea that the DJ's and SP500 are good indicators of how our entire economy is doing. Once we outsourced so much of our manufacturing, those indices tell how corporate america is doing, but offer no real correlation to how the average American is faring. If you belive these guys, who still have their heads stuck in the sand, pouring dollars into American companies (who are heavily outsourced) helps our economy, then you have had the wool pulled over your eyes.
The US economy is in a great deal of trouble. Simply buying American will not be the solution. Its effect is like placing band-aids on a major cut--a little improvement, but the problem and its danger still exists. Large coorporations and the Federal Government are running this country like a garage sale, clearing out all our resources in the hope of making a quick buck. Untill changes are done regarding corporate laws and taxation laws and import/fair trade, we will continue down the very slippery slop into becoming a pseudo 3rd world country.

[wallyhunter66]

did you read it Jason?

[worker]

<build products here in the good old USA that people in other countries want or need,>>

Why not build products in the usa that people in the usa want and need?

[wallyhunter66]

Makes a whole lot of sense to me!

[buyamerican]

It sounds good, but would be an up hill battle. The average american consumer no longers has faith in many american made products due to what has transpired in the past. It takes a long time to regain consumer confidence...but nothing is impossible....

[Yup]

How about the fact that american companies are selling the lead based toys and bad dog food? How about using a bit of commonsense?


In most companies that subcontract work out to others, the parent company is held accountable for that product. Take a homebuilder who hires a sub who performs porr quality work. The general contractor is responsible for that subs work (as well as the sub if he violated local ordinances). Why is it NONE of the American companies involved in any of the Chineese quality/danger issues has ever had its feet held to the fire ? American comanies who sub out work to enjoy the benefits of cheaper costs, also have to accept the responsibilities associated with trying to get these cost reductions, namely increased testing and quality control, and taking responsibility both legally and ethically for their products.

I know of a major importer of tools whose owner admitted when shifting manufacturing from Tawain to mainland China there were problems in quality control. his response to getting quality control to the expected levels his products had established, was to send over his own team of inspectors who inspect each and every item. Only once it passes thier OK, does it get loaded onto the ship.
He explained that quality control in Taiwan was lacking when he first began importing from them too. They needed to be led by the had and taught about the expectations. When manufacturing moved to China the same situation will repeat itself, thus his inspection teams "on site" and their need to reteach about what we expect.

[worker]

<The average american consumer no longers has faith in many american made products>>

Really?

[worker]

<thus his inspection teams "on site" and their need to reteach about what we expect.>

Why not just build it over here?

[buyamerican]

Of course, what would lead you to think otherwise?

[wallyhunter66]

OK Jason, I want to see you live like they do in mainland China! heck why not just go there? I'm sure you and all the like thinking people wouldnt mind changing the way you live. But I would be more than happy to go over there as a quality supervisor, the same pay as i get now the cost of me living at 1/100th of what i pay now. I think I would retire when I came back! Also I dont believe in the least that you did read the book.

[SteveJ]

Did my comment on protectionism prompt this last outrage? I never suggested that foreign companies that sell products in the US shouldn’t be subjected to the same safety standards that our own companies are. That only makes common sense. Just to set the record straight on a couple of your examples, the poisoned dog food was not from China. It was made right here with tainted raw materials imported from China that wasn’t subject to appropriate testing. I was on top of that one from day one as we raise and show dogs and didn’t want to lose our dogs. The American dog food makers were purchasing foreign ingredients because it was cheaper than our own. I believe the toys with lead based paint were again for American toy companies to sell to us. Maybe our quality checks on imported products needs to be improved. That doesn’t mean that we close our borders to foreign products.

As we implement this new protectionism do we close our borders to Big 3 vehicles and auto parts that are made in Mexico and Canada? Companies based in the U.S. are going outside of our borders because consumers don’t want to pay a premium for true Made-In-America merchandise. Is that the company’s fault, or is that the fault of the consumer that wants the “best” for less and has lost site of what is the “best”? I am not an expert, but there is a reason that we import more than we export and it is not because we can make the best merchandise at an affordable price. That once was the case, but we have lost that edge.

[Tim Kelly]

WH66 Do you work for, or advise, the current administration by any chance? Your global overview and educated economic viewpoint has a familiar ring somehow.....

[SteveJ]

WH66 Do you work for, or advise, the current administration by any chance? Your global overview and educated economic viewpoint has a familiar ring somehow.....

There was no political tone to my comments, and I certainly don't work for the current administration. Adding politics to this thread will surely get it nuked in a minute so I refuse to jump on that one.

If you don't belive that we live in a global economy today, then you are in for a rude awakening when you remove your head from the sand. I doubt there is any turning back of the clock on that no matter who is our next president. We no longer control the world's economy. In fact, I suspect that we are now seeing that others can influence our economy. Take a look at oil prices. We are unable, or unwilling, to lower our demand enough to make any difference in the price of crude oil today. Worse yet, many of the major suppliers of crude could care less what happens to our economy. They think they have plenty of other customers for their crude, and they might be correct.

[Hawgeye Unlogged]

As much as I hate to say it, Chevrolet and Ford are American Icons. Whether you like them or not, they will be around for a looonnnggg time. I don't necessarily agree, but our government will bail them out like they did with Chrysler...if need be. They aren't going anywhere.

I do own a GMC Yukon and do love it. 2005 with $40,k on it and it has been perfect since new. Tundras do look nice though...don't they?

[darin]

Wow... I guess I got a few people going. Gas mileage-wise, would you say I'm about the same with all of them? I had a dakota with the 3.9L Magnum and I get better mileage with my Chevy. Just curious... I pointed out a dodge to my kid this morning and he said, "Looks tough!"

[SteveJ]

I used to love buying new vehicles, but have given up on that now. How many miles do you have on your '01 and does everything seem to be in good shape. An occasional repair is better than payments as long as you have decent looking reliable transportation. Keeps the cost per mile way down.

[wallyhunter66]

didnt you go to China, Tim?

[Tim Kelly]

Yes.


I bet you couldn't find it on a map though.

[darin]

I agree 100%. I bought this one with 35K on it and will buy used again... but my dilema is at what point to I stop sticking money into it? I had new tires in Feb. (that's normal), new brakes and roters in the front in january. The emergeny brake is shot (actually, that is sort of expensive to fix), the heat stays on "hot" sometimes in the summer (very expensive to fix). Heated seat is out on the driver side (I can do without, but hate to!!), need a new cover (dealer will throw that in), fuel sensor is out (so I count miles - but have been doing that for 3 years now) O2 sensor is out, just replaced front differential seal on the right side (350 bucks)...will i have to do the left, too? Lot's of little things and a few little bit bigger things. I hate to spend an extra 300 or so every couple of months on repairs...

[sjjjj]

I have owned chevy and toyota trucks...if the little fixes are killing you I would recommend a tundra if you need a full-size, but not the 07's. They had some issues. I have had great luck with both the chevy and toyotas, but with the toyotas I have always only had to do oil changes and brakes for the most part. Very little maintenance needed and I put some miles on those trucks...sj

[Vikings Fan]

>Simply buying American will not be the solution.<

And not buying American will be the solution?

Justify your own purchasing habits to yourself for whatever reasons you want to. For myself, I will go by the saying, "If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem". We can't always buy American in todays world. However the desire to buy American does factor into my purchasing decisions as much as possible. America, capitalism and our economy and way of life may not be perfect. Still, there is no other place in this world I would rather hang my hat and call home.

[Tim Kelly]

Trouble is, do you buy American made, or American owned?

[Tim Kelly]

Trouble is, do you buy American made, or American owned?

[Vikings Fan]

Whenever possible, both.

[Tim Kelly]

But if it's a choice?

[worker]

<Of course, what would lead you to think otherwise?>

It seems that every time i go shopping, i hear people complain that it is so hard to find products made in the USA. Sounds like people are looking for products made in the USA.

[Limiterr]

I test drove the 2007 Tundra as well. Loved the feel. Where I live in NW Ontario pickups rule. I however am rethinking the whole thing. With the price of fuel I am keeping the old girl(98GMC) around. She's still in good shape and has lots left.
I am exploring other 4x4 options. This fuel thing is killing us here.
The problem is that there is not a real whole lot between the smaller SUVs and the pickups. I may stay away from the new truck and semi-retire the old girl and just use her for hunting and fishing and have a look at a small fuel efficient vehicle for work. It hurts every time I start her up at 1.30L. Thats $5.20 /US gallon and going up.

[wallyhunter66]

Well Little Timmy. anytime you want to get together for coffee or to take a little IQ test, let me know! I find people stupid enough to make a comment like that are pretty much nothing! so let me know! I'll e-mail you my phone number, is that good with you little man? Isnt it funny how people that are wrong stoop to this?

[buyamerican]

Market share and market trends prove otherwise...

[bob oh]

I think he was the guy who saw signs that the housing crisis was coming but didn't do anything about it, right?

I noticed that most people who testify before Congress about why the economy is in the crapper don't mention him much anymore. Wonder why? LOL

rod bender bob

[wallyhunter66]

All this from a used toyota salesman!

[Vikings Fan]

What?????????????????

[buyamerican]

at least I sell a quality product:)

[worker]

how's the rusty frames buy back going? Who sells more trucks?

[wallyhunter66]

Jason, I have a shrink friend that tells me if you tell yourself anything for 6 weeks, you will believe it after that time. Even if its not true!

[buyamerican]

How do you function so well at the twice the legal limit?

[buyamerican]

Toyota handled the recall is an honorable manner, one that their competitors could learn from with their countless recalls. I don't know who sells more trucks, but I would guess world wide Toyota holds their own. Also who will still be around in 20 years? And who gains more of the American market each year? I bet the big 3 laid off far more workers than Toyota had recalls:)....

[wallyhunter66]

Just good i guess! But it really isnt all that hard to make you look like an idiot, even at twice the legal limit!!!

[buyamerican]

Idiot is an interesting response...

[wallyhunter66]

so was the previous one! We can play this any way you want! :rotflmao:

[SteveJ]

You must really want to get this guy's post dusted. I would think you are close to accomplishing that.

[MarkG]

Not sure if or what this adds to the debate,but GM just announced layoffs for Janesville, Flint and a couple other plants that escape me.
Slow sales for Trucks and SUVs.

FYI the best most reliable vehicle I have owned so far and still do, is a 95 GMC Yukon that was built in a Mexico plant. Go figure !

[wallyhunter66]

Yup and from what I see, I did it all by myself! Didn't I? Funny how a person can do that all alone. :cookoo:

[Tim Kelly]

Wibble

[wallyhunter66]

I didnt see that coming!

[Wall13is]

I enjoyed reading this string of notes that resulted from a tundra test drive post. It used to be written that the world was flat and as we all know that was not true. The same applies to "our" economy. It is no longer a US only economy, but part of the world economy. The sooner you accept and ADAPT to that fact, the better off you and your kids will be.

The train is coming down the track, get on or get ran over!

[Kruger]

That's what they keep telling us anyway.

[Somethins_Fishy]

It's funny how easy it is to condition the American public to things that are self destructive .

In a post on page two "Really" hit the nail on the head. The issue isn't with workers, expenses, profits, or the lack of quality control. The issue is greed and the traitors to this country who are willing to sell it out to the highest bidder.

Big business is now running the country. We elected those that pander to the wealthy and we're reaping what we sowed. Shareholder happiness and enrichment are the only considerations anymore. If it "dumbs down" the American way of life and makes our economy a slave to a foreign master, they don't care as long as it profitable. And we're allowing it to happen.

We need to protect our economy from the greedy. We need fair trade policies and taxes/tariffs. I could give a **** what happens to other countries economies if we become "protectionists". There's no reason other than greed for all of this overseas outsourcing, and it's not too late to stop it. You want to sell it here? You need to make it here. Didn't make it here? Ok, than it will cost you to sell it here .

Would we suffer for a while? Sure. Would it eventually turn around the trouble we're currently in? Maybe. But it's a #### of a lot better than simply turning the country over to them.

The American people need to wake the #### up and make a stand.

[Kruger]

Trade surplus is good for the economy. Trade deficit is bad. "global economy" or not.

[leechboy unlogged]

Protectionism is a bad thing, if you are a capitialist. Globally, supply and demand should be fluidly exercised based on value proposition of each product and it's entire cost for that particular consumer to use it.
All that "Buy American" will ever get you is sub-par products and longer term decline, until the producer of the product(s) learn to compete using total value proposition, or fail.... -lb has spoken

[rebs]

>It's funny how easy it is to condition the American public to
>things that are self destructive .
>
>In a post on page two "Really" hit the nail on the head. The
>issue isn't with workers, expenses, profits, or the lack of
>quality control. The issue is greed and the traitors to this
>country who are willing to sell it out to the highest bidder.
>
>Big business is now running the country. We elected those that
>pander to the wealthy and we're reaping what we sowed.
>Shareholder happiness and enrichment are the only
>considerations anymore. If it "dumbs down" the American way of
>life and makes our economy a slave to a foreign master, they
>don't care as long as it profitable. And we're allowing it to
>happen.
>
>We need to protect our economy from the greedy. We need fair
>trade policies and taxes/tariffs. I could give a **** what
>happens to other countries economies if we become
>"protectionists". There's no reason other than greed for all
>of this overseas outsourcing, and it's not too late to stop
>it. You want to sell it here? You need to make it here. Didn't
>make it here? Ok, than it will cost you to sell it here .
>
>Would we suffer for a while? Sure. Would it eventually turn
>around the trouble we're currently in? Maybe. But it's a ####
>of a lot better than simply turning the country over to them.
>
>
>The American people need to wake the #### up and make a stand.
>
very well said

rebs