Handline weights...

[FEAR NO FISH]

I am going to take up handlining here out on the Columbia River in Washington. It is a very rocky and uneven bottom. The regular shank weights could be kind of snaggy. I have read where copper tubing filled with lead is a good alternative. I have been smoking this idea over, way too much! I woke up from a dream with this idea. Take a section of bicycke tubing, seal one end and add oversize steel ball bearings till you find the optimum weight.Add a large snap swivel and connect to bottom of shank. What do you old handliners think of this? Would it work?






FUTURE HANDLINER
TEAM VORTEX
TEAM SWEDISH PIMPLE
PETA ENEMY #1
FEAR NO FISH!

[Heavy Duty]

What happens when you get snagged. The rubber will just give and eventually break instead of pulling free. Here in the detroit it would work for sand and mud flats but not in rocky areas.

Just my two pennies.

[FEAR NO FISH]

Have any of you guys applied dip it (a back vinyl coating) to make your weights a little more slippery in the rocks? What about 1 inch steel bar with a bicycle tire as a liner to assist in bouncing over rocks? Am I over engineering the whole weight thing?

[Walizz 1]

I would stick with what they use at Detroit. You can't possibly have more snags than they do!! I only have limited experience handlining but when I did get hung up the weight came out pretty easy. That's not to say that you'll never lose them.

[Tom (mich)]

More often than not, it's the baits that hang up, not necessarily the weight. I believe the typical "bottom bouncer" set up with the lead well up the shank is still the way to go.

[Stormsearch]

There is nothing that slips better off rocks than bare metal. Adding rubber is just something for those rocks to hang on to. We typically use a 18" long, 3/4" diameter (I think) conduit and then fill with lead. Crimp both ends so the lead does not come sliding out. The longer slender weights seem to work better but need to adjust leader lengths off the shank for using taller weights.

[Ray]

You weight method will work. I make my own weights too. Just use 20 lb. test for your dropper lead. Also don't let out too much wire or you will snag up. You will have to learn how to control the hand line before you become and experct with it. It takes time but if you wanna do it you will be able to master it. Ray

[Chairman]

In current, when you hang up a weight you just have to slow the boat down and it will slide backwards and you should be able to get the weight loose. Copper tubing filled with lead is good in snaggy areas.
By keeping the wire at a 45 degree angle you should be able to minimize snagging the main line.
Chairman
NPAA #6

[ebijack]

http://www.dwfonline.com/sinkers.htm
good article with pics, ron has been handlining for 40+ years(way over 40+) as his father for many more than ron...great guy
hope that helps

[No-Snagg Mod?]

Have you ever tried using a pipe bender to put the conduit into a "banana" shape like those Z"No-Snagg" sinkers? I'll bet that might help.

[redbone]

no fish, all i use is the pipe sinker like the one ron talks about on the downriver walleye federation web site. on the detroit river i'll get hung up some times and like chairman said you just slip back down over the weight and give it a tug. you don't want to drag the sinker anyways, think of it as bottom bouncing, move your arm back to touch the bottom then forward again. tapping the bottom as you go.

bob piette

hi ryan

[Gilly]

Well said redbone. The whole key is to not drag or you will snag. I bounce mine up and through rocks all the time as most often they hold the wallys. The slender lead weights as we have all been using for years are all you need. Once you get the hang of it your hooked.

[dant]

Well, I just emailed FearNoFish about handlining, so I thought I should run this by all you expert types that have responded. What I said to Steve was I don't think the type of rocks/structure that is the Columbia River is found much if at all in the midwest.

Boys, there is no mud. There is very little weed growth or sand. The bottom will jump 10 feet in a boat lenght, sometimes in a boat width. These rocks are jagged. and sharp, not like the winddams on the Mississippi. The rocks are bigger and shoot up out of nowhere and then drop away by more than 30' sometimes.

There are places where the bottom is gravel and less varied. I do catch fish there as well, but seem to do better in the rougher terrain...

I have run three ways on both the Mississippi and the Columbia. In the midwest you drag your sinker on the sand. out here if you drag you snag. The techniquie that I use is a lift and drop CONSTANTLY. sweep forward / follow back / adjust line for depth... sweep forward / follow back / adjust your line for depth.....

I just wanted to make all of the handliners aware of the amount of rocks and wonder if with that information the advise is the same? I would love to learn how to handline and offered to tag along with Fear No Fish if he needs some help....

I am not countering any advise, just wanted to let the posters know the structure we face out here.

dan
Out in Oregon land where the walleyes grow bigger and so do the rocks!

[Ray]

If you're new to handlining, I like to make one big recommendation. I've been trolling with this outfit now for 30 years, and I know all the secrets on how to use one. I strongly recommend to start out with copper, not wire. Wire is very sharp and will tear your hands to pieces. Copper is soft, and you have a chance with it. The area that you're talking about is for an expert, no beginner. One method on a sinker that I guarentee you will not snag up is to use a 3-ft chain. This will act like a slinky. You can read all the books on handlining, but they wont tell you how to use one; you have to learn yourself. I've let more guys try my handline and they just can't cut it. They all worry about snags and losing lures. Theres nothing light on using a handline. If you think you're going to make this outfit into a light tackle fishing, dont even try. Handlining is all heavy tackle and for today's high-tech angler, I can't see him wanting to try it. Thirty years ago, we didn't have down-riggers and all this fancy gear we're using today. Everything was all wire with broom stick rods and the old-fasioned way of fishing. Ray

[dant]

Thanks for the response. I fished stainless steel wire on the Mississippi before the "super line" came out. I have never fished multi plugs though. Three ways with up to 12 oz of lead though on the Columbia.

What size does the copper come in?

dan
Out in Oregon land where the walleyes are bigger and the 30 consective days of rain ended yesterday. Was Noah in 40?

[Ray]

I use 20-gauge copper. You said you use 3-way swivles. Use a trolling triangle instead. 3-ways dont hold up. The trolling triangles are hard to find. I make my own up now. If you cant find copper, let me know and I'll be able to help you find a roll. 20-gauge copper costs 12 dollars for a 600 ft. roll. Give copper a try, I think you'll like it. A sure lot safer on your hands; Wire is brutal. Ray

[Larry]

Ray, is this a "soft' copper wire like a motor winding and does it have any "one time stretch"? Drop me a line. I'd like some more info on the triangle, etc.

[Dave S]

Ray can you offer me an explaination on how you make your "trolling triangles".

[FEAR NO FISH!]

Merry Christmas everybody!
Thank you for all of your input. I have a guy on my crew who is a blacksmith. He offered to make some weights for me using 3/4 inch steel bar. He will stretch and taper the bottom of the shank weight. 3/4 inch down to 1/4 inch. It will give me an inventory of weights ranging from 12 ozs. to 2 pounds. I am really getting excited about this. Will keep you posted on my progress.


Handliner wannabe
TEAM VORTEX!
TEAM SWEDISH PIMPLE!
ANTI PETA COALLITION

[hammertime]

ok, now you guys got mi interest up, im not the best at just reading and understanding this stuff. guess when the weather gets right, im going to have to get one of you handliners to take me out and give me some first hand lessons. that way i can learn the right way ! seen them doing it a lot on the st clair river and detroit river but always thought that was crazy, guess its time for a lesson.

[Ray]

Larry,
copper is like single strand wire. has no stretch, and easier to work with then stainless steel wire. a triangle is a home made 3 way swivel. for bottom fishing nothing holds up better then the triangle.to make a connection to the triangle, from the hand line use a ball bearing swivel, i like a berkley crosslock. connection to sinker use two number 1 coastlock crane swivels, one swivel to the triangle the other to the sinker. Ray

[Ray]

netcraft has all the materials you need. for 20 dollars, you can buy the bender, and comes with the book that shows you how to make a triangle.

2002 catalog, on page 47 tack-L tool
wire size on page 12 .050 500 test Ray

[redbone]

no fish, the problem with steel is the constant rusting, it'll get on anything in the boat it touches. we use copper tubing and fill it with lead, no rust. you can play with the diameter and length to adjust weight. go to the link on ebi's post to get an idea on the size. we also handline in lake erie were there's plenty of boulders the size of cars. there we use longer weights (snags less) with no problems.
good luck and let us know how you do.

bob piette