carp

[THE FERD]

Every year early in the muskie season I notice theres always a bunch of carp splashing around in the shallows and there just tearing up the place ! The funning thing is I know theres a lot of carp in my lakes but I have never seen a small one ever ! Do muskies eat carp as part of ther regular diet ? And should I be fishing the shallow water when these carp are getting there groove on ?
THE FERD

[Jason Schillinger]

I too fish a flowage(petenwell) that has an overabundance of carp. One reason you don't see the really small ones, is that they do not spawn. They don't come in and splash around like the bigger ones. They also grow very fast to about three pounds then slow down to a crawl in growth rates(on our flowage anyway). Never really did well where the carp were rooting everything up during their spawn. I avoid those areas for awhile as they are sooted up. However, during the summer, when they school up, it is a different story. Yes muskies do eat the carp, and the ones surveyed here had carp in them. They are soft rayed creatures, abundant, and very nutritious(fatty, lots of protein). Seems during the summer when you can find them schooled up on the flats, is when you can find the smaller ones(we snag a small one now and then). I fish areas that sometimes have carp and sometimes do not, but the times they are there(during mid summer) the action slows for some reason, but a biggee usually shows up in someones net.

[Tom B]

One of the St Cloud guys used to market fish the Miss river for muskies. He said that they routinely found carp in their stomachs and that orange is a good color to use in water where carp are a forage base.

I fish for carp quite a bit and we have NEVER hooked a fish smaller than 4-5 pounds. I know that never is a long time, but we just do not see smaller fish. I suspect (but cannot prove) that carp go to deeper water when they are in the "bird predation size." They sure don't hang out with bigger fish, we would've caught one by now.

I think that if a person could figure out where the small carp (1-3 pounds) that you could probably target those areas and find some BIG muskies nearby...

Tom B

[Kingfisher]

I was watching some smaller carp on the surface of a lake I fish when I was treated to the attack of a very large Muskie. This fish hit a carp at a very high rate of speed right on the surface and dog boned it. The water was still falling as she slid kind of backwards out of sight with that carp in her jaws. It was one of the most awsome things I have ever seen while Muskie fishing. I Feel that the biggest Muskies in a given body of water will follow the carp herds around unless there is easier forage available. They seem to eat everything and anything that moves where I live and smaller Carp on the surface are an easy target for a Mega Muskie. Kingfisher

[Sponge Bob]

Kingfisher...ever try a brown/orange bait? JLong was going to experiment w/ painting some but don't know if he did...I would think it might just work on a topwater, glide or suspender...:)

[Marc Thorpe]

Sponge,brown and orange....Now thats is a great color.
marc

[strike_zone]

Kingfisher is dead right. BIG muskies like carp. Did you know that carp have the highest protein and fat content of any warm water species? They tend to school, with the larger fish forming the nucleus or centre, with the smaller fish forming the perimeter. Frequently these schools will venture out of deep water, with all these carp milling around on or just under the surface.

I digress for a moment. Any of you seen the special on Great White Sharks eating seals... the National Georgaphic special where they use the camera in the surfboard? Think about it!!!!!

A high protein meal in an extremely vulnerable position on the surface, and a slow moving fish at that. In '99 I took 4 muskies of 48 1/2, 49, 49, and 49 1/2 all within less than 100 feet of schooling carp over open water. Three (3) on a 10" orange tiger Jake, and one on a 10" black perch Jake. Coincidence? I think not.

I now carry a pair of ultra high power zoom binoculars on my boat. They are there for carp spotting!!!!

You find a school of carp over open water on ANY body of water, and I'll bet that there are one or more BIG muskies very close by!!!

Steve Wickens

[riverrat118]

Hey Steve,
Bet that big old bait I dropped off will tear up those carp eaters this year! Let me know when that big girl tears into that bait.
John Schardt

[Marc Thorpe]

Did someone say Grazers!
Big fat ugly weed eating grazers!
mmmmm,schools of little one are apetizing but herds of cattle can ruin the rut.

brown and orange mmmm,with silver or gold blades
John you got bait fish on the mind,maybe you should site down and have a meal!

If you want to catch lots of grazers,fries with brown gravy works real well!

marc

[Thad]

I have a theory on this. I was reading In-Fisherman magazine a few years back and they were talking about the intellegence level of freshwater fish. Carp were rated the smartest. The article said that they have excellent long-term memory.
It's no secret that carp are egg eaters. My theory is that these carp are in the back of these coves because they are good spawning areas for muskies & walleye. The carp are lining up for a buffet and waiting for the muskies and walleye to move in and drop "dinner".

Does anyone buy that?? Maybe i've been in the sun to long!

[riverrat118]

Mark,(notice the spelling),
Sounds like you've been chowing down with sponge lately! Thought those southern boys use "redeye" for gravy.
John Schardt

[Michael]

Steve...curious to know where you heard that carp have the highest protein AND fat content of any fw fish...I don't think, by definition, a fish can have both because after lipids and muscle, there's not much left but scales and bone. I would be more likely to believe that big carp have the highest content of large undigestable scales...but apparently that's no deterent to muskies. I think that discussion of "protein content" of prey species is a bit misguided. By weight, all fish are mostly muscle and muscle is protein rich. Some fish, like whitefish and lake herring (ciscoes) are oily as well and perhaps oily prey are important in nourishing developing eggs in muskies...but no one really knows. I think muskie and other predators are opportunists - they try to maximize food intake while minimizing the energy expended in doing so ('optimal forgaing theory' as coined by ecologists). Thus, they tend to eat what is common...but surprisingly, some common species, like bluegill, are extremely adept at evading the strike of a muskie, at least under lab conditions. Many more questions than answers...great topic!