Bottomline question, need some input

[Cranky]

I put a new Bottomline Tournament Master HR on my boat this spring. Here's the problem: after approx. 30 hours of use, I have yet to see a single arch on this unit. In those 30 hours, I know I have been over fish more than a few times. All I get on the screen are vertical black lines that vary in size from 1/2 to three feet high(using the scale on the screen as reference). I've gotten these vertical marks in anywhere from 6 - 60 feet of water, attached to the bottom and suspended everywhere in between. Once in a while I'll get a mark that could be considered an arch(if you really tried hard), but it's got greyline effects attached to it. Again, these marks are suspended. I've adjusted the detail a number of times, with very little change noticed. Transducer is mounted as close to manufacturers spec as possible, good performance from 0mph to WOT(47mph). I realize that any fish not going through the transducer cone just right may not show up as an arch, but I find it hard to believe that I haven't gone directly over one fish yet.

Anybody got any suggestions? Are the black lines fish, or just wishful thinking? (I believe I've caught some of those black lines, and they do resemble fish to me.)I'd sure like to know the difference between the black lines that are fish and those that aren't.

Sorry for the long post.

Cranky.

[Road Kill]

I have the same problem, but long ago I decided marks were fish.

[yarn fly]

i also had the same problem,but when i called
bottomline they said that the unit was not made
to show hooks. in 2yrs of use i have seen only
two hooks. so i sold mine,and picked up a 7520
pinpoint,ilove it..

[Starfish]

Sounds like your unit is messed up. My Tournament Champion sometimes shows arches, sometimes horizontal lines, sometimes dots, sometimes vertical lines... depends on the fish. There's no artificial system for displaying arches, but the real thing should definitely show up as an arch sometimes, if it passes through a transducer cone under "normal" conditions. It might be a transducer defect, so if you send your unit to Bottomline you might want to both.
Good luck!

[Terry/JNR]

In order for any unit to show a good arch, the fish has to be directly in the center of the transducer cone. This is a rare occurrance, especially in shallow water, say under 50 ft. It would also have to be a pretty decent sized fish to show a good arch. Most average fish in shallow water only show as a line on 90% of all units on the market. Pinpoint being one unit I've used only a couple of times and I still question it's accuracy on the same water I've used Bottom Line, Lowrance, Eagle, Garmin and even Hummingbird.
I've used the Tournament Champion for 5 years and to date was the best unit on the market. After all, since when is all the fish dirrectly under the stern of your boat.
I'm going to try the Rayteon 750L this year, with side finding of course.

[Tackleman]

I have the same problem! It makes me mad to no end. I've had cheaper units make archs (whether they are half, 3/4 or a full arch) and you can tell they are fish. I've swithced back and forth between the little fishy pictures and the archs (or lines in this case) and where there are little fishy's there are verticle lines. Now I know that when the Pro's are shown using this unit on TV (Al Linder) they show distinct ARCS, not lines. I've tried to adjust my transducer to no avail. Any other suggestions before I kick this thing off the bow like the Stren or Trilene commercial guy???

[RANGER]

Me thinks "Starfish" is right!!! I think your unit or the transducer is messed up. I have a Tournament Master as well and I love - NOW!

When I first got it I had the exact same problem; called Bottomline; told them my whoas; they asked me to send it and the transducer back; I did; and the "new" one worked fine!!! The unit had the whatchamacallit screwed up with the goesinya. At any rate, this one works great.

If, however, you want to try some things:

1) Make sure your cable, from the trans, is shield from other electronic cables/devices.

2) Very small adjustments in the angle of the transducer, in relation to the bottom - as the boat sits in water (not your driveway), have a major change in what you see.

3) Make sure there is no road residue on the transducer or any scratches on the bottom of it.

4) Make sure that your plugs, on the back of the unit, are turned in to the lock position (all the way) and none of the pins are bent.

5) Finally, find the best ground for the power cord, i.e. - preferably the battery post and not some bus-bar ground.

Number 5 sounds corny but there is a lot of "potential" (electrical talk) in a ground and all manner of induction can occur. The batter post is the best available.

RANGER

[Starfish]

One thing you might try is to take a heavy jig or cannonball, and swing it under the transom in a straight line about ten feet under the boat, so it passes straight through the transducer cone. Theoretically it should appear as an arch just like a fish: the weight is closest to the transducer as it passes through the center of the cone. You might find that your cone has some dead zones or something. I still think your unit is defective; mine has shown believable (catchable) arches in water from 6 feet to 250 feet deep.

[Fish-on]

If it's important to you to see arches, then buy a unit with the arches programmed in. If you want the best unit on the market, then stay with the Bottom Line. The post above about a unit rarely showing arches is correct, you will rarely see arches unless a fish goes right through the middle of the cone. Usually only in deep water will this happen. Arches are programmed into many units just like those little fish symbols. If you want to see a specific shape, put it on fish ID, then you can see a shape instead of a line if you want. If you want to catch more fish forget about ever seeing arches and get to work on fishing. Turn the revelation feature on your Bottom Line and you have one of the best sonars ever built. If you want to see arches, buy a lesser brand that programs them in. You'll not have a real picture of what's going on down there, but at least you'll be seeing specific shapes.

[Champp]

I have the same unit. After talking to the Bottom Line rep at the Minneapolis sportshow, he stated that the arches are only programmed in on the simulation mode. Obviously you don't use this mode when fishing. The rep stated that the best way to use this unit for detecting fish was to turn the fish i.d. off. When the unit detects fish they will show up as vertical lines or black dots. Hope this helps. Have always wondered if my unit was working properly because of the no arches also. According to the rep it is. A more informative owners manual from Bottom Line would help.

[RANGER]

Cranky,......If I may........

If you are a subscriber to Walleye Insider (or know some one who is) the last 2 issues have an excellent article(s) on reading and using sonars. It has given me a new perspective on these things. It's worth reading. THEY ALSO RECOMMEND TURNING THE FISH ID OFF. Then suggest you get used to reading it as it was designed. It's like everything I have in the boat - I had to learn to use it properly. ##### - the first time I navigated on Erie with the GPS I ended up 12 miles due east of my marina!!! Not any more!!!

The Bottomline is, in my opinion, one of the best if not THE best on the market.....for what it's worth!!

RANGER

[RANGER]

P.S. - I still think your unit is messed up, though. I'd send it back for a replacement - which is what Bottomline will do, they send you a new unit and trans.

RANGER

[larry]

Fish-On - i have the HR unit as well. didn't get it with gps. do you have the integrated gps and do you have a similar high opinion of that as well. thanks

[Fish-on]

I have the GPS, but Bottom Line doesn't make their own, they use a Garmin module. I have never had a problem with it. This year I upgraded to the Bottom Line NCC 6500 with the global map. I just got it not too long ago and I ordered my first c-map NT cartridge the other day. So far I like the GPS, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it works with the map, especially since SA is off.

[vetspet(ind)]

i have an older tournament 310 and run it with my lowrance 350lms.....it often marks vertical lines where the 350 arches fish all the time...i am very convinced that the 350 is correct...i fish lake michigan weekly and know the marks are real...the bottom line just does not measure up to my lowrance....steve

[vetspet(ind)]

my lowrance 350 is not programed in to show arches....the way an arch works is when the fish first enters the cone angle it is actually farther away from the transducer than when/if the fish is directly beneath the transducer...then as the boat moves away from the fish the distance increases again until the fish is out of the cone area....that is why you get the arch....the center of the arch is when the fish is the closest to the transducer....the two tips of the arch are when the fish first enters the cone and when it exits the cone area....if you do not run directly over the fish you get wierd 'arches".... the bottom line can give "sort of " arches but mostly gives me vertical lines....just my two cents worth

[Starfish]

I plugged my handheld Garmin into my HR unit and it works great. One bonus I hadn't expected is that the memories/waypoints on the Bottomline and the Garmin work independently-- so it effectively doubled the number of waypoints I can save. Of course I need to double up on some of them so I can still access them when I'm using the handheld separately...

[FJH1]

I have the NCC5300 with the C-map cartridge reader. So far I only have the "local" Illinois and Wisconsin maps. I can get the unit to read down to .2 miles and still have the map features displayed. If I zoom in any closer I lose the map. I am assuming that this is because I only have the "local" maps. Which C-map cartridge did you get? If you picked up one of the "super lake" maps would you mind posting your feedback regarding how far in you can zoom and still maintain map features?

P.S. On the lakes that I fish most we have numerous long channels that connect lakes. These channels are about 30' wide. With SA turned on I would find that the unit would occasionally show that I was on shore. However, with SA off I find that my plot trail doesn't leave the channel - not bad!

Best Regards,

FJH

[TEAM_ALTO]

I have the NCC 5300 and the Vexilar LC-507 "The Edge" on the console. I find myself using the vexilar more, it shows honest arcs and great detail. The 5300 will sometimes show a part of an arc, but otherwise dashes or dots. I just put them on this spring and haven't finished evaluating them.

[mossboss]

What do you do with your revelation?

[Fish-on]

I got the C-map NT, and I ordered the super lakes one. I have never seen any for smaller areas, excpet for the great lakes. Do you know where I can get a list oif everything that's available? I'll let you know how it works out when the cartridge gets here.

[FJH1]

I called C-map directly (in Massachusetts) and had them fax me a listing of available maps. Its been a while since I was on their website but the "local" maps are listed there, as well as their phone number. The local map works fine for me but I would love more detail and zoom capabilities.

Best Regards,

FJH

[Bigeye]

Question for Starfish - Where did you get the cable to tie your handheld Garmin and your HR unit together at ? I also have these two units.

[larry]

Starfish - I have the HR and a Garmin 12. Are you saying i can plug the 12 into the HR and it will read on the HR screen! i had no idea. what interface cable is required? thanks a bunch!

[Starfish]

It's kind of a pain-- you actually need TWO data cables to get the right connections. You buy the Garmin data/power cable that fits your handheld unit (I found one on clearance a few years back because they were clearing out the old GPS 45 accessories). I've seen them in Cabelas, etc., also from Garmin. Then, to get the right connector jack, you also need to buy the Bottomline data cable, around $40 I think. I got a deal on mine because they took pity on some repairs I was doing on both a downrigger and my Bottomline and I whined a lot. But it's really slick, the Bottomline unit powers your Garmin and saves your batteries.

[Eye Slayer]

I have only seen verticals lines on a fish finder one time and we tracked that down to electrical interference. I don't remember the source of the interference but once we removed it we started seeing arches on the screen. My buddy has a Tournament Champion and that thing couldn't mark a 30" fish in a bath tub. Unit was basically a waste of money, but I hear that they have gotten better so maybe you should look for interference before sending it back.