What is Up With America II

[Slamr]

Tons of posts later, it seems that though many of us have different views as the amount of "up the creek" our country is (see the "What is Up With America" post), there are obviously MANY problems our country faces...now here is my question: what do we do to fix them. I am a b*tcher and a moaner at times, but I like to think of myself as someone who looks to find a solution...
We have problems in this nation serious ones...now what do we as a country of UNITED States (and people) do to change our problems? See the above mentioned post for the LIST of problems we are currently dealing with.
Going to refrain from giving my $.02 on our possible solutions for now, call me a liberal commie pinko later in the week!

Slamr
*my thought is the FUR IS GONNA FLY on this one!!!




Muskies....."By Any Means Necessary!"
agolden@htassociates.com

[Red Ruffandsore]

There are what, 300,000,000 people in the U.S.? If you think they will all march to the same drummer, ever, you are sadly mistaken. There are great people, good people, neutral people, bad people, terrible people. Whether kids in general are getting better or worse is irrelevant. There will always be lots of bad ones, that will never change.

When you decide to have kids, you first hope they will have two arms, two legs, and one head. When they are born, you hope they will just keep breathing. As they grow you watch every move they make and try and keep them safe. You worry about different things at different stages. The problems get fewer but with a higher degree of difficulty.

When the kids become teenagers, it's all a crapshoot. It don't matter if they are rich, poor, urban, or country. It has to do with their friends, and what they get into as a group. If you restrict them from something, they will "slingshot" past it when they are able to do it, and that's worse. I know a family whose parents are both proffesionals. The kids grew up with no sports, no candy, and could only watch the parlimentary channel on TV. One day they were allowed to come to a birthday party. They sat around a bowl of chips like they had just discovered fire. It was pathetic, they had no social skills and could not interact with the other kids. Their life was no better than those kids who get locked in closet all their lives.

To the OP's point. All the laws are in place. All the agencies are in place. Everything is where it should be except enforcement. Enforcement and penalty. What good does it do to have a police force arrest teenagers if they are not held accountable. What good do the laws do if convictions are suspended. In Canada, the Young Offenders Act does not reflect the times. Five teenagers who recently went on a viscious carjacking spree, are fearless. Their punishment will be a maximum of two-three years in a youth facility. Big deal. It is unlikely they will be tried as adults, and if so, will not receive the maximum penalty. They pistol whipped their victims, stripped some of them, stole their purses, wallets, vehicles. They even put a gun (empty) against the head of one victim and pulled the trigger twice.

If America falls from superpower, it will be from within. It won't be the Osama bin Laden's of the world that do it. America cannot protect herself from within and all the bombs in the world can't change that. Anyone who thinks that nothing will ever change in the balance of power is a fool. Try looking back in history. What makes things different now?

So who/what is going to change the current situation?

No one...that's who

It may be a short time...it may be a long time...but things will eventually change.

If America wants to be a free society (and Canada too), it has to realize that it's not a reality. You have to share a free country with people who hate you, who would like to destroy you. People complain about the death of Christianity. That's tough! Religion has no place in a free society. All religions have equal weight in a free society and therefore have no place in government. Well, that's not entirely true. The government has to ensure equal treatment of all religions....even if that religion states in it's holy book that everyone outside it's religion is lesser and should be defeated.

A truly free society is a losing proposition no matter how you slice it. The majority of the people in the U.S. want a free society that is founded on Christian beliefs. That's not a free society.

I don't have any answers to offer...I'm too busy trying to keep my kids from going bad...and trying to keep them at home at the same time. I do have one plan of action though. It will be made clear to my kids that if they stay on track, they will not want for anything (within reason). If they stray, they will do it on their own, by themselves, and there's no turning back. I will blow their inheritance on a cabin in LOTW and a big boat.

[Sponge]

Hard to follow RR+S on that one! Well said...all I can say is that I will teach my 6 yr. old son in the way he should go, + believe that though he may stray, he will one day return. As was previously said in the above post, accountability for actions by all age peeps is paramount for stability + nothing short of that will keep things in tact. And I firmly agree that if we should fall, it will be from w/in. In my 48 yrs. I have seen a decline in our country in all walks of life...many things have changed but I this I know, a difference can be made by one person at a time + this is no time to throw the hands in the air + say what's the use! We cannot complain about that which we permit...each family is responsible for themselves...each individual comes to know the difference between right + wrong, we are all w/out excuse. Working w/ a youth group once a week gives me an opportunity to listen + if asked, give advice + share from my mistakes from past yrs...+ the mistakes were MANY! Lets' see what happens. :)

[Bill]

First, we need to pick new and better leaders. People don't get involved in politics or hardly know what the heck is going on around the world... I'm not trying to cut anyone down, but just look at the last election, lowest turnout ever, and look at the candidates- Gore and Bush... C'mon we can do better than that!!!! Think about the last really good president we've had, some say Reagan and others say Roosevelt... I think if everyone really got involved maybe we can get someone who is better than both those guys... However, it seems like all you need to be president is lots of money and the right connections these days, so the whole political system needs to change, then we need to change and make new laws, then we NEED to change our culture!!!! When you think about it, it's crazy! I mean look how much our teachers make then look at all these low life rock stars and entertainers who are filthy rich, and for what???? Kids look up to these ignorant people because of the fame and fortune, but what are they teaching kids? They teach them LOW morals, greed, violence, hate, arrogance and selfishness... I believe also that this started in the 60's when they made heros out of rock stars like Jim Morrison, Stones, Hendrix, etc. Okay, they might have made some cool music but what the heck did they teach our kids or society???? Some people know more about rock stars than the history of our country and that's really messed up. Somehow, we have to educate people on the things that are REALLY important!!!! we need to start cleaning up the cities with all the crime... Like I said, we need new laws to get criminals out of our country for good!!!! People need to start being responsible for what they do!!! There is way too much crime in our country and it needs to stop! That's another thing kids look up to thanks to movies and rap, etc.
I don't know if those things will even be enough to save our country, but we need some kind of radical change or things are going to continue to go down hill.

Bill

[RoyC]

I agree with a lot of you about the nature of the problem, but I disagree about the the extent of it, or the direction that it is heading. The statistics that I have seen indicate that the economy has improved overall since the "good old days" (obviously not in the last year!). Crime rates have generally gone down in the past decade or two. Life expectancy is definitely on the rise, although I am not sure if our health is improving--we are living longer, although fatter! The "evil empire" (Soviet Union) is gone and we are able to drastically reduce our nuclear arsenals. And as for today's youth, I have been paying more attention lately to all of the youths that I see in public. It's amazing how many nice-looking, hard-working, polite kids there are if you look for them. If you don't look for them, all you "see" are the bad ones.

I truly believe that we are living in the best of times, and that they are only going to get better. We do have problems that we must approach intelligently, but I am quite optimistic that we will get through them.

Roy

[Ted Z.]

I totally agree with Bill, people's priorities are all messed up because of this selfish, ignorant culture. It's typical you would mention the economy, that's what people care the most about is money, money, money for their own needs. this might seem like the best times but it's really the WORST!!! Like Jed said, people have become conditioned to this way of life, even though it's wrong. And, sure if you go looking for kids around your area your going to find good and bad, but the facts are that the majority of kids are very corrupted and totally selfish. People should start caring about other people rather than themselves and how much money we can make!!!!! That's one of the big problems that most everyone only looks out for themselves, only care about how eveything effects them, look out for # 1. It's not right.
We need to change our whole society and way of thinking... Crime is down??? Compared to what, a few years ago? How about a few decades ago? Plus, this country is becoming more and more populated, which is only going to add to the problems because most of the parents are morally debased and unfit to raise kids properly, especially young parents.
I also argee that we need to change our political system and get some intelligent, honest, hard working people in there to correct all the crud that's gone on for years and years! And all these stupid low life rock stars, rappers, entertainers, etc. need to be seen for what they really are, selfish, corrupted ignorant drug abused criminals.... They are not people to be idolized and worshiped!!!! They are SCUM!!! They are not heros either!!! I can't believe they knighted Mick Jagger, what the ##### did he ever do but live a morally corrupted life. It just makes me sick to see these fakes looked up to like they are great people, it sends the wrong message!

We need to do some serious changing to save the country but I'm afraid nobody's going to wake up until something very bad happends to make people realize the truth.

Ted

[Zeek]

I think people are way too selfish, we should start caring about other people and get involved. Like Red for example, seems like all he's worried about is his own family.

I don't know, I don't see much hope for the future unless people are able to see the mess this country is in and take a stand to really try and change things, not just worry about yourself.
I've seen some very, very bad things happen to our country in the last 30 years and I can honestly say that it's worse. Oh sure, people make more money now but that's not helping moral values or anything else.

And yeah, this culture is a little nuts, why do people look up to scum buckets like Maryland Manson and not real heros like veterans, teachers, etc.

Zeek

[TonyS]

You guys scare me. Not because I believe much of anything you say, but because of the way you see the world and this country. I don't think the problem are kids today. Or the political system. Or the criminal process. Sometimes the biggest problems are in the mirror.

I'm not saying everything is ideal. But I think we are constantly evolving towards a better civilization. I think that is the nature of human society. There will always be mistakes and set-backs. But overall, I think we move forward in a way only possible in a free, tolerant, and open society.

When I look at history, whether of only a generation ago, or multi-generations ago, I do not see a better society. I see mass hatred on many levels - race, creed, nationality. I see genocide and ignorance. I see mass destruction and unnecessary wars. I see intolerance, slavery, child labor, lynchings, oppression, and unmitigated exploitation of our natural resources. If human values and morals were higher in the past, they did not manifest themselves in the actions of the greater civilization. All of these observations include this country and the people who have lived here. But I believe we have evolved and continue to evolve towards a better society.

I've worked in the criminal justice system for over twenty years. I am quite up on the problems of crime and punishment. The problems of drugs, guns, and our need to instill hope and opportunity in the lives of many people who, for many complex reasons, have been left with little hope or opportunity. The solution is not increased punishment. If it was that simple, the problems would have been solved a long time ago.

In my work and social life I have encountered many young people. I think very highly of them and am totally clueless when I read much of what is posted on these message boards. My experience is they are as respectful and good as any prior generation. In fact, I have more problems with the generations which have preceded them. There is where I see more ignorance, intolerance and self-righteousness - what I would deem a more invidious immorality.

In regards to the political process, I simply cite Winston Churchill's famous statement concerning Democracy. To paraphrase, it may be flawed, but there is no better system out there. I would fear any reactionary movement towards a different system.

This country, and the human race, still have a lot of serious problems for which solutions are complex and sometimes hard to find. Yet, I don't believe the sky is falling on America. At least not from our youth or from any perceived lack of moral values. The major threat we face is from people, whether from within or without our borders, who believe that we are corrupt and immoral and are intent on forcing their values and way of life on the rest of us.

Call me naive. But I believe in the young people of today. I believe in the direction this country is heading. I believe that we are constantly learning and working towards a better society. But it may not be the society many of you would like to impose upon us.

Tony

[Jim McCullough]

Ted,

It's kind of funny that you should mention Jed from the other America thread, since you are posting from his computer. Although, he did say that he wouldn't be back... You are more than welcome to come here and post. Even anonymously. All I ask is that people keep it clean and try and keep to one name. You build more credibility that way. Oh and do me a favor, tell Zeek the same thing since he is posting on that computer at the times you and Jed aren't. Thanks. :)

[Jim McCullough]

Man that computer is busy. Jed should be charging all of the people who are posting from it. Zeek....wait a minute...was it Ted I was talking too...or Jed...anyway, one of you guys tell Bill the same thing for me, okay?