CPR of Big Fish

[gale_radtke]

I was notified of the concerns of others on my recent catch of a St. Lawrence Muskie. I would like to address these concerns at this time.

First of all, Jim, I apologize for what seemed to be advertising my website. I did not have the intentions of doing that when I posted the message about my catch. Please forgive me. As of all of you know, one tends to get a little excited when they catch a fish of a lifetime.

Every fisher has his/her favorite lure that they use religiously. I happened to believe in the one that I manufacture. I'm not here to try to tell you that if you want big fish you have to buy my lure. If you choose to not purchase it, that is your perogative. But I know for fact from experience, that when it is heard that a big fish was caught.... one of the first two questions asked is "What was it caught on." That is the information that was given on the original posting many days ago.

Second of all, I know many anglers are angry over the fact that this monster will go on the wall. I do have the right to keep a fish if I choose. C&R is not a law, but rather an option. This fish was not kept intentionally. My wife, son, and myself all practice C&R religiously. And as stated in a previous post about this topic, I do not "CLUB" every fish I catch.

I hooked this fish at 9:30pm and when I got it to the boat I immediately worked on releasing it. I was alone when I caught this fish. I never removed the fish from the water. After working on this fish for over an hour to release it, I decided that this fish was not going to make it. As we all know, some fish make it, some don't.

And as also stated in a previous post, that I DO have a 55.5" musky that was safely released into the river and have a replica of it. I also have released many fish over 50" that I only have pictures of and no replicas or mounts.

Another thing for the Muskies Inc members, you can access my fish list on their website. http://www.muskiesinc.org. You will notice the ratio of released to kept fish. So, once again, for the statement about me "Clubbing" every fish, it is not fair nor is it true.

As some of you know, I used to own and operate a bait shop on Little Green Lake in Southern Wisconsin. I promoted C&R and worked closely with the Wisc DNR on a C&R program by tagging fish for studies. I have, through the years, converted many fishermen and women into C&R people.

As for the line class record, I have not even bothered to check on it as I'm not out for records except the All Class world record to beat Louis Spray's 69# 11 oz muskie as is every single muskie fisherman out there. Tell me one muskie fisherman that wouldn't love to have the bragging rights of catching the World Record.

As for the illegal issue. Our lure is marketed in many states throughout the US. Some states allow 4 sets of trebles, others don't. It is the responsibility of the individual to know the rules of the state they are fishing. Just because I sell my lure with 4 sets of trebles on it, doesn't mean that 4 sets have to be used. The lure is designed so that it can be adapted to conform with your state law as to the number of hooks.

Yes, I am a businessman and do promote my lure. Do you think Bill Gates doesn't promote Microsoft products? Afterall, how many times have you seen Microsoft commercials on T.V.? I'm not a big business but pretty much a mom & pop type of business. I do not have the revenues to be able to produce costly commercials so therefore, I have to promote my product, which is a proven fish catcher by word of mouth of the internet.

I am not using this post to try to save my reputation. My reputation has truly proven itself as a man and a fisherman throughout the years with my work on Little Green and with my product. And as proven in this post, not once have I mentioned the name of my lure, nor will I.

If you care to discuss the matter of this fish or my ethics, I feel that you should address it to me personally. I believe my ethics are just as high as those who bashed me when it comes to C&R.

Thank you,
Gale Radtke

[Jim McCullough]

Gale,

I appreciate you taking the time to come here and give your side of the story. I hope now that you have taken the time to register, you will stop back once in a while and share some of your experience. I also want to say that I appreciate the feedback from everyone else in the other thread. I just work here, and it's good to know how people feel about the way the site is being run.

[RoyC]

Gale,

Thanks for talking to the rest of us on the board. I respect your opinions on these issues and am glad that you are also a supporter of CPR. I suggest that you indicate your CPR philosophy on your web site so that others don't get false impressions like we did.

I guess that the boards are notorious for spreading misleading facts, but I believe that they are also a great place for straightening out these things also. Thanks again.

Roy

[JIMK]

gale,


it was great to hear your "side". it is a shame that you should have to come here and defend yourself. i read most threads in the other post but did not reply,i am very interested in learning muskie fishing and if your baits catch them than i would surely be interested in them,no matter what anybody else thinks or says.
i live in north carolina,originally from minnesota,fished all my life but never caught a musky, lots of northern pike.
there is a lake here not far from me that is suppose to hold tiger muskie and i will fish for them,but need direction. if i caught one as big as yours and it was legal i surely would have kept it too. oh i will release others but if that was as big as i thought i would ever catch i would keep it.
do you have a sight for your baits?
thanks for your time.JimK

[Musk Rat]

Never had a problem with anyone making a living or promoting products. I will say my catch and release stadards and ratio are higher since I never kept one and never had one die on me either. I realize it dose happen but when I looked at your photos at your booth I saw a lot more than a handful of dead fish. What I saw I didn`t like. Legaly you can do whatever you want but I don`t have to agree with it. Andy

[gale_radtke]

Thanks for the support. As stated, I am not here to promote my fishing lure, but to state why the muskie was kept. If you would like information on my lure, please e-mail me at rmatey@localnet.com. That is my personal e-mail, and not my business e-mail address.

Thank you,
Gale Radtke

[Chuck Altamore]

Congratulations Gale on a true trophy, In my opinion no explanation was needed. You are indeed right when you said Catch and release is a option not a LAW! and yes I believe a important option. Isn't it sad that someone of Gale's reputation feels he needs to explain why he chose to keep a fish. Some never talk about the ones that are released just the VERY FEW that are kept whether it was a fish that couldn't be revived or someone who legaly chooses to keep one for mounting. I'm sure I'll hear about this. Sad, very sad!

[MuskieKid]

Thanks for your input. Like your lures-I've had some pretty good luck with them. I met you up in Harrisburg a couple of years ago and saw your replica mount. What a monster!!!

visit my non-commercial website: http://www.toothycritters.com

[Apologizes not needed]

I understand why you needed to explain you catch and release philosophy. You're a businessman that can't upset your customers. That's the only reason why your explaination was given and it makes sense -- you're a good businessman. If it was me, I would say the ##### with the extremists. Nobody should ever have to explain themselves when or if they keep a fish. Let's remember that fishing is a passion best remember when enjoyed. Let's enjoy it!

[non elitist]

We get one thread where people are not happy with KY dnr for failing to confirm Grant's fish(attempted release but dead) for a record. Then on the same board they are ATTACKING Radtke for the same thing.
Altamore is right, and you guys need to remember it. There is no law against guides and/or their clients killing a few fish if they want to. After all that's how they make their living. If a guide or his clients want to kill one for a trophy, it's allowed. Get over it. Just because guides handle hundreds of fish doesn't mean that they all make it. Especially the trophy sizes. Everybody knows they are alot harder to release than the small ones. I will bet Marc Thorpe could tell you that, he probably loses some big ones every year, probably Richard Collins loses some too. They both handle a good number of big ones every year.

[Trophymuskie]

Even before my name was mentioned, I was going to reply to this one. I have had 1 fish die on me before release and it was far from a trophy, this was a 38 incher that I figure died from the colateral damage from a rear hook of a Jake in his eye.

I have had to spend some time releasing some trophys but they still swam away strong when they did and many have been recaptured again by myself or clients of mine or I know of one by Marc's client. I have a link on my webpage that proves that if these trophys are released they can be enjoyed again.

http://www.trophymuskiecharters.com/Catchandrelease.htm

As for the main subject of this tread. I have been called an elitist before but I could never see any reason why anyone would kill a fish in this day and age. Now 15 to 20 years ago there wasn't that option offered to anglers. I don't know when all those other fish were killed that are all over his site. One more thing if Spray can catch 3 world records I guess he can have a bunch of fish die on him, odds are the same.

I am really surprised no one said anything about the guides on his page that allow the slaughter, now please I know I am an elitist but I have heard these guys kill a lot of fish.

I guess some will never understand the potential of a single trophy release. Good thing this isn't in my back yard.

Now another thing comes to mind here. I was told there were never going to be a Muskies Inc chapter in Ny because of their kill division. Where are all those elitists at? Seems like we hear of a bunch of trophys killed on the Larry and very few released.

Keep releasing them all
Richard Collin
http://www.trophymuskiecharters.com

[Marc Thorpe]

Non Elitist,you are right post mortal release is a big factor in which none of us can control or take an affirmative stand point on how successfull we do accomplish our release.
Recapatures lead us to think the % is good.
Its not concrete proof just estimated results.
Inovation in your release technics improve your success.
If the need for pics or handling fish out of the water is not there,water release em.

Tony Grants fish is a state record and the biggest one caught in KY.
Give him the credit he deserves.My opinion.

Gale's fish serves as 2 purposes,his biggest and a comparative weight for all to judge their fish from.My perception.
The Larry is unstocked and is recovering,we must continue this trend to a successfull recovery of this great fishery for all to enjoy.
I do beleive Gale contributes as many do also,we must collectvely make it a tradition of releasing in this area until the Real one comes along,The one We Will Never Have To lie About It again.

marc

[J]

The St LAwrance is one of the largest ( if not the largest) self sustaining musky population. With out Stocking these fish need to reproduce. A 58" fish is one heck of an accomplishment but that fish does produce many young. Big fish are often the source for great controversy whether kept or killed you really cannot win. Now unfortunalty the only way the size of one of these monsters can be proved is to be kept. However we can now see with a fish of this size if all our formulas work out.
I wish many releases to all, and remember a picture is worth a thousand words.
your choice and right is your choice but why take somthing away from others and yourself.

[Musk Rat]

I will reitterate why I posted originaly If some one catches a fish of a lifetime and keeps it I`m not going to give him a lot of crap I.E. Rusty the sweed guy. Even though I don`t agree with keeping releasable fish but the guy I critisized had pictures of no less than 50 dead ones at his booth fishgraf asked me if I could find a picture of one that wasn`t dead I couldn`t . thats is what I saw with my own eyes and I didn`t agree with what I saw and still don`t. The guy also never denied useing four hooks He never came out and said he cuaght the fish legaly thats because he can`t Do you think he and all those guides remove the hooks when they cross the river he only beat around the bush and said it was the anglers resposibility All the pictures I saw had all four hooks. Call me what you like I`m just relaying what I saw. Never said the guy was a jerk never said he made a bad product his lures probably catch more than any other on the river all I said was I think he has killed way too many. I stand by that.

[Annonymous]

I have recently looked up the state law for NY. In New York you are allowed 2 lines per person. You are also allowed 15 hook points per line. If my calculations are right..... 4 sets of trebles contain 12 hook points and therefore, a lure with 4 sets of trebles is completely legal in the state of New York.

[TonyS]

Fact is that Mr. Radke has killed a lot of big fish. I have seen his displays with his pictures and all of his mounted fish. Although it is his legal right to kill as many big fish as he can, his is a poor example to follow if we are interested in maintaining or developing quality wild (non-stocked) muskie fisheries.

On a related note, it was the St. Lawrence guides who prevented the NY minimum size from being increased to 54-inches on the St. Lawrence. Why? Is it that important to the guides to be able to kill smaller fish? Haven't they learned from the historical decimation of that fishery?

TonyS

[Phish Freak]

Tony,
Are those photos and mounts recent muskie's that he has caught? Remember Gale is older and he has fished and grew up fishing at a time when its was the norm to keep muskies. Even the big names in muskie fishing who are older kept fish and some kept a lot of fish.

If it's the case that most of his photos of dead fish and mounts are from a period when CPR was ment for people, then we cant criticize the man.

Gale has stated that he does practice CPR and at this point I will believe him unless someone out there can prove otherwise and say for a fact those fish are from recent catches (photo of one dead fish does not count).

Has anyone caught any tiger muskies on his lures?

Thanks.
Vince

[Musk Rat]

15 points is five trebbles sorry but your mistaken it`s 9 points.

[divani]

mr radtke, how big was that musky you caught? Just out of curiosity.

[TonyS]

Vince,

I first saw Mr. Radke's display about 20 years ago. He had a handful of mounts, the largest being about a 38 pounder, if my memory serves me right. I again saw his display last year. He had a good number of mounts over 40 pounds. I know that several were caught in the 1990s, as whenever he catches a large one it finds its way in the St.Lawrence area newspapers, which then get quite a distribution among muskie anglers.

I don't believe that Mr. Radke necessarily kills a lot of muskies. But it seems fairly obvious that he kills more trophy size fish than most of us. One large musky every few years is, in my view, too many.
If we all did that, I believe that the availability of trophy size fish would quickly decrease. Mind you, I know of a good number of musky anglers who catch as many, if not more, big fish as Mr. Radke but chose to release those fish.

Finally, I'm not critical of Mr. Radke for keeping a 58-inch 52 pound fish. I'm sure it's a fish of a lifetime for him, as it would be for most of us. I just believe that he has kept too many smaller fish in the past, and I hope he won't keep any smaller in the future.

Tony

[divani]

hey what happened??? Why did my post get removed? All I asked was how big the large musky was he caught.

[Phish Freak]

I am sorry to hear that Tony. I guess its hard to change old ways for some. It doesnt bother me that a person keeps a legal fish every now then, its thier right. Lets just hope that Gale releases a lot more fish than he keeps.

Vince

[Musk Rat]

It was 58 1/2" + 26 1/2" 52# huge as you can see from the picture. Also as you can see anyone who has actually seen his display is repulsed by the amount of dead ones like I said nobody cares about the old veteran who has kept a fish of a lifetime. Dozens of fish though is greedy and wasteful in my mind. One of the main reasons I brought attention to this is the fisherie itself. People get upset about single hook rigs in WI or Kill contests in KY or warm water fishing in ILL these are small problems in my mind these waters are stocked and able to recover quickly. Although these waters certainly produce world class fish they are not the St. Lawrence The larry is a unique body of water in that it`s genetics are pure and fish comonly exceed 55" I remember Pete Main stating that all the best muskie men he knows in WI MINN and ONT have only seen a hand full over 55" This should tell you that the St.Lawrence is a very unique fisherie the one place you can go for a shot at a 55" and I think it should be preserved with the highest release ethic since each female represents a potetial 55"+ muskie. Sure G bay or the Ottawa have that type of potetial but maybe not quite as common. If you look at the top guides on LOTW you will see it takes about 30 years average to bag a 55" and nobody is ever going to get Three over 57" in one season that is what makes the Larry special and worth protecting. Thats why people get upset with one guy killing a bunch and certainly more than one idividual are responsible the release ethic in general is real weak in the area I tink it`s like single hooks in WI old habits die hard. hopefully these types of discusions will give those old habits a little kick in the can. I know Marc and others who are more diplomatic than I will try to address these issues with the newly formed muskies CA chapter It`s a worth while cause for the future of all trophy hunters and dreamers.

[Marc Thorpe]

Amen Andy,good post.
marc

[riverrat118]

Andy,
You hit the nail on the head. Hopefully, with the help of others, we our new proposed chapter can spread the word on C+R.Along these lines, we also need to stress the fact that there is NO need to fight a fish for one hour on 14-17lb test mono. These fish are not line shy. In fact, I've caught more fish using single strand steel leaders with 60and 80lb power pro that I have since I switched to Florocarbon leaders.14-17lb test Mono off downriggers is the preferred method by most on the river. Doubt any big fish could survive a long battle in 70 degree temps.
John Schardt

[Musk Rat]

Good point with the new florocarbon lines coming in 20# + 30# pound guys who are affraid of spooking them should just use that or use superbraid with a long florocarbonleader. No need too fight them on bass takle like I said bad I mean old habits die hard.

[riverrat118]

The Full story regarding this catch was published in the T.I. Sun wriiten by Allen Benas, a musky guide on the river. Picked up the paper this week end before my twin bro and I night fished for 18hours this past week end. We planed on fishing the same area that gale caught this fish near the channel. Gale, byou 221 out from big and little round. We were not upset with your catch. Our concerns were the hour battle. Good press, bad for the Muskie.
My bro and I bought an extra camera to prove that we will catch a fish bigger than that and let her go safely.
As far as your baits are concerned, I will not buy a product from a manufactuer that makes a good habit of keeping all "your best".
Show a photo of a HUGE release on your site. That would be something I would respect.
I've seen the calapse of our musky fishery in my lifetime. I spent my younger days fishing from Grindstone and "Heard" about the Musky lore.Let's not make the same mistakes.
John Schardt

[BigFishCarlson]

This big fish certainly got my attention, so I went to his website to view the photo. Although I'll take you for your word about being a release fisherman, Gale, it sickened me to see so many photos of modern day harvested muskies of that size class on one website. Try to put a few more released fish on your site, and I think you'll add credence to your claimed release ethics. The word as I heard it on Clayton is that it is the 'kill capital' of the East. Is that accurate, or was my buddy who told me that just stirring the pot? Anyway, if it's legal, so be it...best of luck to the fishery under those conditions. Good luck with future catches and releases. Mark

[riverrat118]

Mark and others with concerns regarding the St. Lawerence Muskie,

Mark, your concerns on the exact reasons that there needs to be a voice on the river protecting the St. Lawerence Muskie. Marc Thorpe, Jim Willis, myself, and others, have worked very hard to establish a chapter of Muskies Canada on the St. Lawerence (Gananoque).
Our first information session that was held this spring, went very well with lots of support from Members from all over Ontario, Quebec and NY, including Dr John Farrell from SUNY-ESF who works with the NYSDEC on Esox research.The Mayor of Gananoque gave a great talk and was very supportive of this chapter. Mike Butler also gave a informative talk regarding the Genetic research he is working on.
At this time we are recruting membership for our proposed chapter. Dan Spencer,from Gananoque, is our acting chairman. Our next meeting will be sometime this fall.Membership at this time looks solid, but we can always use support from others with the dedication that will be needed support this chapter and the amazing spotted fish that swim in the larry. Membership forms can be accessed directly from the Muskies Canada Site.Pencil in ST Lawrence Chapter under Chapter. 40$US,30$CA. Best bucks you coud spend. Feel free to email me with any questions jgschardt@msn.com Muskies Canada's Web Site http://www.trentu.ca/muskie/mc.html?117,47

John Schardt

[riverrat118]

The season is just getting started, and already you'll see the pics of all the kept fish on this site. The 1000 island baitstore is the largest baitstore in the 1000 Island region. I've had talks with the owner.Needless to say, I used great tact and reasoning. I won't let you in on what he has called me. Book mark this site, and check it out in Nov. http://tibait.com/default.asp?area=gallery No one would believe me if I told you the size of the fish that are brought in here in the fall. Most are not posted on the site, but you'll probably see 5-10 fish over 55" this fall.
John Schardt

[MuskieKid]

I purchased several of Mr. Radtke's baits at Harrisburg and thru his site. Seems to me that at least one of his mounts was a graphite replica.

Tigers on his lures? You better believe it, especially for trolling. These lures have great action at very slow speeds. I prefer his small baits for imitating the baitfish (golden shiners) in my lake. Great hooking ability.


visit my non-commercial website: http://www.toothycritters.com

[riverrat118]

Any hook that you can bend between your thunb and forfinger is not going to withstand a strike from a big fish on superlines.Terminal hardware on the Radtke's is way to light for trolling with superbraids.I wouldn't put one on if in big fish waters. If you use light mono and fight the fish for one hour, then the bait may hold up at the exspence of the musky.That's what they do on the St Lawrence. Me, I'll keep using the 13" double jointed Hi-Fin with three depth settings. This badboy will out wiggle most at slow speeds.St lawrence fish also like a Jake from time to time. Compare the terminal hardware on these two baits to the Radtke and you'll see what I mean.
John Schardt

[Jime]

I have to disagree about the hook strength of the Radtkes and super braid I have caught many muskies using 100 lb power pro and not had one hook failure.These lures are super tough and hook well with very little damage to the fish unlike large lures with 5/0 or 6/0 hooks.As far as fighting fish for one hour I can,t answer that all my muskies have not fought longer than 5 to 10 minutes at most it is all about your drag setting and rod type.Thanks Jim

[Fishing Hero]

I"ve never had a problem with the hooks. Give the man a break. These lures are around a long time. The man uses his own product because they work.

[Phishin]

Radtke is lucky he doesn't fish the Ottawa or the Niagra. His boat would of been sunk or burned by now. Why keep these fish?? You can't eat 'em....what's the point. Some people need to wake up.
Peace Out.
Steve Hulbert

[suskysteve]

If you guys look at old baits from years ago probaly the 1930's or 40's you will see a bait called a paw paw caster,it was made in wood and radtke baits look like a plastic version of the same bait.From what I know the 3 section bait was designed by taking the middle section of of a three section creek chub bait and putting it on his bait.

[cwmn]

>Non Elitist,you are right post mortal release is a big
>factor in which none of us can control or take an
>affirmative stand point on how successfull we do accomplish
>our release.
>Recapatures lead us to think the % is good.
>Its not concrete proof just estimated results.
>Inovation in your release technics improve your success.
>If the need for pics or handling fish out of the water is
>not there,water release em.
>

Thank You Marc, I get so sick and tired of some people on this board saying they have released over 100 musky and state that they all lived to be caught again, statisticaly that is probably impossible but they are so "religious" about thier C and R claims that they would never admit to the possibility of mortality.

[kjadams]

Pretty powerful stuff Phishin. Is this a direct threat from you towards anyone who decides to keep a musky in that area? Before you answer you'd better think about it!

[hear me now]

I heard that his lure is designed after lures that were found on the UFO that crased in New Mexico some years ago. Any truth to that? Those lund's look similar to the boats that the native americans use to build

[The Blind Squirrell]

Steve,
Why don't you think you can't eat a musky? Lots of people do, have, and find the taste to be quite good. From the pics on both Gail's shop walls, and his minnow display at the shows, I think you would be safe to say that if you do need a good musky recipe, he might be the man to go to for it.

The BS

[Jim McCullough]

Keep it clean guys. This thread has been a productive one with both sides being able to give their points of view. I'm am not going to let the anonymous attacks start appearing. :)

[hear me now]

I apologize. Very few originals these days. It seems that we keep bringing back clothes, cars, ect. from old designs and I think there is nothing wrong with someone designing a lure that imitates or looks similar to others. Give Gayle a break.

[Phishin]

Blind Squirrel,
I know people eat muskies, but why would you eat a big one?? They are full of toxins. A fish concentrates toxins in it's flesh that are found in the water after many years. I know you can eat 'em, but you can eat a skunk or muskrat too.

Mr. KJAdams, no that wasn't a threat to anyone who keeps a musky in that area. I live in Indianapolis, IN. No where near Radtke. But the boys who fish the Ottawa and the Niagra are hard core catch and release and have no problem pulling up to your boat if you start abusing their resource. As a matter of fact, there was a big stink on this board not too long ago about a guide who guides on the Ottawa and keeps fish....and there were several big time guides up there trying to throw his butt in jail for illegal guiding (he didn't ahve the right permits)....they will do anything to keep disrespectful musky anglers off their water. That's all I was saying. Radtke needs to wake up and realize that the wack 'em and pack 'em mentality of the old school men has already died out (except for old timers in WI of course). Why turn the St. Lawrence into a WI grade fishery??

Peace Out.
Steve Hulbert

[kjadams]

Phishin,

I didn't think that the fishermen in that area took life so seriously. Those guys try to get someone thrown in jail because of someone keeping muskies(I'm assuming legally), then they consider breaking the law by burning or sinking his boat?? I just don't understand the mentality of not keeping a trophy for yourself. Is this resource that fragile that we can't keep a trophy? If it is, maybe we should stop fishing for them altogether. If someone is abusing rules, I understand the anger. I've never kept a muskie and probably never will, but don't tell me that I can't keep my 54" when or if I catch it -- as long as it's legal. Also, Gayle made it perfectly clear that he practices C&R in another post and that the latest fish he keep he couldn't revive. Let's give him a break, huh.

[Phishin]

Hey kjadams,
They got the guy in trouble because he did not have a work permit for Canada...he was working for gainful employment illegally in Canada....everyone hates the dude because he lets his clients kill fish, so when the guides found out that he was guiding illegally, they did everything in their power to put an end to his slaughter of Ottawa fish. They didn't burn his boat or sink it....that was just an exaggerated idea on my part. But those guys up there are very protective of their fishery.

And NO I won't give Gayle a break. His website is worse an Mr. Chuckie Altamore....it's a grave yard of dead muskies. Makes me sick. If you want to keep a trophey, get a graphite made. Especially on the Ottawa and the Larry...those are some of the only naturally reproducing populations of muskies in the world. Why can't people understand that. I feel that a person is a coward if he must keep a fish to prove his manhood.
Peace Out.
Steve Hulbert

[kjadams]

Phishin,

I'm not sure about the logic behind being a coward if you keep a trophy. Can you explain this to me?

[Phishin]

kjadams,
I'm not getting into this with you. I say throw the fish back and you say keep it if you want. We have different opinions. End of story.
Peace Out.
Steve Hulbert

[riverrat118]

I forgot to mention this in my last post. Don't have the Ontario regs handy, but does Ontario allow four sets of trebles on a bait? Since mosts on the NY side of the St Lawrence fish in Canadian waters, especially in the fall,are Four treble hooks legal on one bait?
John Schardt

[cwmn]

It's A wonder why any of you fish for Muskies, I will never believe that %100 of the fish you C and R live to be caught again, it just seems impossible.
As far as burning boats, well that's terrorism plain and simple.

[Trophymuskie]

Is this resource that
>fragile that we can't keep a trophy?

First of all our fisheries is what it is due to our C&R ethics and nothing else.

Now most of my clients catch trophys so if I allow one to kill his trophy I might as well let the other 20 or 30 do the same. Now if other guides and local fishermen do the same we are looking at killing hundreads of fish a year, yes that can be damaging to a fisheries. Just pay close attention to the St-Lawrence as all these fish getting killed by the local guides and their clients will cost them in the near future. There are not an unlimited numbers of these super fish.

There may not be anything wrong with someone keeping their trophy of a lifetime even tho must of us rather release them year after year. The problem starts when someone is responsible for multiple fish killed that it effects the fisheries.

Here is an exemple of our way of thinking up here, 2 weeks ago July 24th to be exact I came home telling my wife how I saved a muskie that was captured by a bass fishermen ( talked him into releasing it and not killing it ). Now my wife asked me and did you catch any fish? I told her yes 5 and biggest one was a fifty incher on a figure 8. Now where are my priorities? That fish may not survive the near 30 minute fight but it has better chance in the water then in the garbage can at this guys camp.

Keep releasing them all
Richard Collin
http://www.trophymuskiecharters.com

[Phishin]

cwmn,
no one is burning any boats. That was just a figure of speech. Come on dude, no one is a Nazi.

But you guys see what I mean, Rich Collins pulled up to a guy who accidently caught a musky and wanted to keep it. Rich spoke to him and he released the fish. I applaude such action. This is what I mean by Ottawa and Niagra guys take action to protect their fishery. But we all remember that thread...."Dudes Keeping Small Muskies"
Peace Out.
Steve Hulbert

[confused?????]

So for all the folks here that swear up and down that they would NEVER keep a fish; one of these people happens to catch the world record and keep it....why keep that one record fish and how would one deal with their hypocritical feelings afterwards? NOBODY knows what they will do until it happens, so think long and hard before you dive into someone elses life and spew such B.S.

[Musk Rat]

Since I was the first to make a negative comment I will once again reiterate what point I was makeing. I never said I had a problem with someone keeping a fish of a lifetime. I never said every fish I released lived. Who cares about his lures the quality or the legality. The point is I have a problem with a guy keeping fifty fish of a lifetime as I write this I am looking at a brochure for thousand islands fishing charters that fetures guess who holding a dead50" pluss one of countless photos I have seen people keep saying his web site is bad. Thats nothing compared to what I saw at his booth. There is no other side to this debate Who cane support killing intentionaly Fifty or more fish? If your going to come on here and take the other side your saying it`s ok to kill fifty not one. Forget about the fanatical C+R Philosofy this is not about that. Don`t get off the subject Come up with something to support your man I want to know Why it`s OK to kill fifty would someone please tell me. He says he`s C+R so I say I can beat Mike Jordan one on one you going to believe me. Do you think the many witnesses to the carnage are pulling it out of their buts? Rich is rite to the guides in the area are the wosrt they let whoever wants to kill them kill them. A guy from our MI chapter went with a guide about ten years back when he told the guide he wanted to release his 55" the guide cracked it over the head with a becks bottle and said that fish is my reputation. That is not going to benifit our childrens fishing remember these fish are a lot older than our kids how are we going to replace them if mother nature can`t keep up. Also as I said before this is a special place Hopefully people will start treating it that way.

[less confused]

Point well taken; this was for those whom have beat their chest on other posts and attempt to make themselves appear a real hero in the eyes of the muskie world; they are either total catch and release or need to admit they would consider keeping a fish.

[Phishin]

It's plain and simple. Mr. Radtke is responsible for the death of many many many huge muskies out of a fishery that completely relies on it's natural reproduction. It's people like Mr. Radtke who have turned once thriving naturally reproducing musky lakes into relying completely on stocking.

That dude ought to be ashamed of himself. He kills those fish so that everyone can see what he's caught....so that he can continue to sell more lures and guide more clients. He's raping the St. Lawrence fishery to pad his pockets.

No one here really is against a guy keep a (that means one) fish of a lifetime. I don't care one bit....but keeping the number of fish that Mr. Radtke has.....well, enough said.

Peace Out.
Steve Hulbert

[Maskinonge]

Well said Phishin! That's it in a nutshell. And Musk Rat deserves credit for his tenacity.

Radtke's chronic behavior and those of many guides in the Clayton area clearly illustrate a sad lack of respect for the quarry which we all pursue. No wonder Clayton, Alexandria Bay and Cape Vincent have the reputation as the "Kill Capitals" of the St. Lawrence. I guess they just don't get it........

[riverrat118]

Maskinonge
There are a couple of guides on the river that practice c+r. I would bet that if all the guides from the 1000 island region promoted 100% C+R,business would increase. I do believe the St Lawrence fishery is the ONLY watershed in America where catch and release is Not promoted by guides with a passion. The northern pike fishery has completely colapsed on the river due to factors including overharvest from driftboats. Who is the first to complain to the NYSDEC regarding the pike colapse? 1000 island guides.In the meantime, they still harvest pin pike for the stringer. I have all the minutes from public meetings with the NYSDEC regarding the northern pike issue. Who complains and still keeps all fish caught? Not to mention all the Ice derbies for pike that no one complains about. Old ways are hard to change.As I stated before, we need to establish a "voice" on the river that can promote C+R and to assist the NYSDEC and the OMNR in protecting this self sustaining fishery. My intentions are not to "bash" any guide or fisherman on the river. We need to come together and protect our resourse.Bottom line.
Gale,
You've made one post here and we would like you to be involved with the new Muskies Canada Chapter in Gan. Can we count on you support for our next meeting in the fall? We need to come together, as an organaization, regardless of our differences, to protect and promote our "international" fishery.Your attendence would be a great help .
John Schardt

[Musk Rat]

Sorry if I hurt your chances of wooing a few killers to the other side I guess I realy didn`t think of that when I trashed them. I know you need support I`m just a rat and I`m just being me for good or bad. Sorry John and Marc

[MuskieKid]

Looking at Mr. Radtke's site, I only see two different (maybe three) fish that he personally caught that he has photos of on his site. Both are huge that a lot of people would mount. Other pictures include one each of two relatives and the others are of satisfied customers of his lure. I've also seen his booth on occasion. Seems to me that there are some graphite reproductions on his site in addition to skin mounts. There may not have been graphite repos available when he caught some of them and the CPR ethic may not have been popular then. I'm willing to bet that this man has been fishing for Muskies for 30-40 years. During that time period, it does not seem that the amount of fish that I see on his site (or booth) that were killed amount to that many fish.

I've noticed on his site that he is a guide. However, after reading the stories and looking at the pictures of his really big fish, it appears to me that he himself may have been guided to those fish. What about those guides? Havent' heard anything about them.


visit my non-commercial website: http://www.toothycritters.com

[Mike]

I dont understand why every-one gets so self rightous when it comes to the catch and release of fish. It doesn't matter what your view point is because chances are it is going to be a selfish one. You show me the guy who doesn't even take a picture and doesnt feel the need to tell any-one about his catches and I will respect him as a "purest". Every-one else is using that fish for something weather it is to sell a bait,promote a buisiness, or just sustain ones ego. Catch and release is an option and the regulations are set to protect the fish, if tou want to cry that you cant catch a fish as big as the next guy dont blame him for keeping it because chances are no one is ever going to see that fish ever again even if it is released. Remember several years ago when 2 different potential world record bass where caught and released , I have not heard of those fish deciding to jump one some-one elses line the following week or even last 10 years because chances are they died, and that is the fact of nature that c/r can't solve when you are going after a fish in the twilight of its life span. So if you let a fish go great but dont criticise any-one elses decision.

[another mike?]

Read the thread. The only thing irrefutable in your post is that catch and release is an option.

There are many who fish musky just to enjoy the sport, have few and/or crappy pictures, only talk to other musky fisherman more as a conversation-to find out what is going on and to hear some stories rather than to boost their own ego, and are happy that few know what they are doing and in fact would rather people not know what they are doing. Obviously you are looking at the most visible aspect of the fishery when you make your statements. There is much to be gained from the pursuit other than fame, cash, and ego stroking.

[riverrat118]

Rat,
We a trying to bring all paties together, including guides, to work together to better our resource. Lot's of these folks live on the river.Hopefully, we can provide a forum so that all musky fisherman can get together. After all, we are all sick nutballs.
John Schardt

[Marvin Radtke]

John,
I wish I would've known about the Gan chapter. I would've surely joined instead of the New Jersey Chapter, if for no other reason than to meet you and discuss the truth about catch and release. My wife and I moved to the 1000 Islands in April looking for "Musky Heaven".

I am very proud of the fish that my father, Gale, caught. I am also very proud to say that he is truly a sportsman and releases many musky. I have not been as lucky as him to have had the opportunity to catch as many muskies (big or small) as he has. As he is older and gets many more opportunities to fish than I do.

As stated in an earlier post in this thread about him guiding, he does not guide on the St. Lawrence. He is retired from the guiding business. This is HIS time to enjoy fishing for himself and not get somebody else the fish. He does however take friends out fishing just like Joe Fisherman goes out with his buddies. He deserves all the glory he can get at his age.

As for our Catch & Release ethics. Every musky that is caught aboard his boat has been an attempted release. Some of them make it and some of them don't. Heck, even on TV not every patient makes it on ER. In Hollywood you would think they could really make hospitals a wonderful saving place. But we all know that is not truth. I feel that my father is being persecuted for being an honest man. I can bring up 3 specific instances when he and I have fished in tournaments in Wisconsin and have witnessed MI members catching fish that were in the low 40" range and were registered as 50+" fish. No picture was taken as it would give away the actual size of the fish. All that is needed is a signature. Also registered as successful releases and both him and I saw the fish go belly up and stay belly up as the boat races off.

Now, would someone please explain to me how THAT is the right thing to do?

I was raised to be an honest person and do what is right and I know the difference between right and wrong. Why? Because I had an excellent example of what a man is suppose to be..... that being Gale Radtke.

I also feel that if he had gotten this fish to the boat and decided to keep it right off the bat, that he has every right to do so, and I would've still been proud of him as a sportsman.

I feel that my father is an asset to musky fishing and an excellent role model to other musky fishermen and sportsmen. Not because he is my father. Even if he weren't my father, I would still have the utmost respect for him as a man, and that's more important than anything.

How many times have you gone to sports shows and gone up to booths selling fishing lures. Go up to a booth sometime and try to talk musky fishing...... Nine times out of 10 they'll tell you what their lure will do. Not what the best lure is for the specific fishing conditions would be. If you fish one lake, and their are many musky fishermen that do just that, and that lake happens to be a massive weed bed, my father will tell you that your best bet would be to fish a bucktail right above the weedbed, but that his lure might also work for you because you could bend the lip down and make it run shallow and if you start your retrieve right away, you should be able to keep it above the weeds. Gee, sounds kinda a tv commercial for a certain insurance company. There are manufactures out there that are there for one thing..... to sell their lures.... they don't really give a ##### about fishing, and very rarely fish. My father is there to sell his lures yes, but he is also very concerned about musky fishing. And another thing...... Yes there are many pictures of muskies displayed at the booth, but not every picture displayed is a dead fish. There have also been many fish that he hasn't even bothered to register with Muskies Inc. I'm new to Muskies Inc. I'm not sure if there is a minimum size limit for registering fish with the organization. If he weren't concerned about musky fishing, it would make him a very foolish businessman.

It would be about as stupid as Smith and Wesson lobbying for a law to make it illegal for anybody in America to own a gun. And it is our constitutional right to own a gun.... and I'm ##### proud of that.... even though I don't own a single gun, nor will I ever. That is my choice. Just like it is my choice to keep a legal musky or release it.

Everybody knows of the LXGXG/800 formula. If it weren't for kept muskies, nobody would've ever been able to come up with that formula.

I would also like to say that this post is not directed at riverrat118. It is a general post.... just the first sentence for the most part was directed to him.

Instead of bashing a man for keeping a 50+ pound musky, be happy for him. Lord knows, he'd be happy as a lark for you if you caught a whopper like this one. Even if you didn't release it. Even if you didn't have any intentions of releasing it when you got it to the boat. His fish is truly one that has bragging rights.

Why don't you get on these guys that end up killing a fish and saying they made a succesful release. I believe this is a much bigger problem than people realize.

I'm not saying that everybody does this.

I think you should give my father credit for giving this fish his all and trying to release it, and being man enough to admit that it didn't make it.

I've known him 37 years............. and he is definitely not a man who's ethics should be questioned.

Marvin Radtke

[kmon]

Been off working for a bit and came back and saw this post.
With all the discussion on CPR I think one point has been missed. Why do we CPR? I live on a 28 mile section of a small river well known as an excellent musky fishery. We have perhaps 3-5 reproducing age musky per mile! And they grow to, on average, 48". That's a max of 140 fish in the 7 to 25 year old range. So if some die by old age. Others from post release mortality. Walleye fishermen kill a few. And then guides, or the better/luckier fishermen, take some trophies. One season could, theoretically, take 20% or more, of the reproducing age fish. Well 20% per year with a minimum of seven years to spawning maturity... you do the math. And the really successful spawners being the older fish. Hey that's why we CPR. So we can have a great fishery.
It is up to the more mature better fishermen to stand as models for the beginners. When we have the best fishermen taking multiple trophies ... where's the 1 fish? ... then we have a problem.
I say to all, please CPR. If you're going to take a fish, make sure it's the 1. Mr. Radke's fish is one fish that will never be a world record. And at 52 lbs it only had 18 lbs to go. It is also one mature fish that will never spawn again.

[John Schardt]

Marvin,
Give me a call some day when you get a minute or two. 315-471-0514 email jgschardt@msn.com I live in Syracuse and fish the river.
Regards,
John Schardt

[Mouskie]

Filet & Release...