antenna research

[Jerry]

Listed below is the results of my searching for what I need on the great lakes. Seems that the radios are most the same (frequency) until you get into the high end or accessories. As for a special antenna being tuned, that is not necessary, because the antenna's are all tuned to vhf frequencies. My question is, what antenna is overkill or will give me the best reception if I an at 12 ft. above the water? Because, the distance you can send and recieve a message is related to the height of the antenna. Anyway, below is emails that I received from Shakespear.ce.com or search shakespear antenna and connect. You can get all the info and specs from this site. You can also get the distance formula for the height of an antenna (height above water in ft. squared x 1.42)

With a 5206-C antenna, you can expect on average 5-7 miles. Our best 8' antenna would be the 5225-XT which will yield on average 25+ miles. This is due to the inside construction of the antenna which would be coax for the 5206-C versus brass and copper tubing in the 5225-XT.
The 5206-C is our economy series antenna. It's average range would be from 5-7 miles. This is OK if you are not going to be going any further than that. The 5101 has an average range of 7-15 miles. All of this is due to the inside construction of the antennas. The 5206-C has a coax element and the 5101 has half brass and copper tubing and half coax.

Regards,
Shakespeare Technical Support

[Chairman]

I have used just about every antenna made and find the 5225 the best one out there in an 8' antennae. At about $125 it isn't cheap, but when it is something as important as communications what is a few bucks.

Also, I have found that by running a pair of #6 or #8 wires from the battery to a power block under the dash and only using it for the radio that my reception and transmission ranges are farther. Be sure to fuse these wires. Keep the total wiring package as heavy as possible.

One other thing, if you have extra antenna cable, dont coil it, weave it back and forth to keep from losing some ot the antenna's range. I don't understand why, something about setting up a field or something. I only know what many years on the Great lakes has taught me.
Chairman
NPAA #6

[jerry]

It has been a thorough bit of research and I needed some "on the water" experience. Thanks for the feedback.
Jerry

[perchjerker]

Thanks, chairman. I am getting by now with an old antenna off my old boat.

Looks like I will have to trade in some of the empties I have saved up and get a 5225 for next year. This post has convinced me I need an upgrade!

Thanks to Jerry for the question, too.

[Kaz]

Jerry: I can't tell if you are an employ of Shakespeare or you are just relating information that was given you. Your post was not real clear. I'm very intrusted in the internal construction of what you discribe as "brass and copper tubing". Also the comment about "The antennas are tuned at the factory" may be true, but what is the mid point, or they just broad to cover the frequencys of 156Mhz to 163Mhz? What is the typical SWR at the low end and the high end of spectrum. Also there seems to be a great disparities in the differant antennas and their distance coverages, keeping in mind that all legal limit output for marine radios is 25 watts, frequency modulated. The reason you should not coil the coax between the antenna and the radio is it acts as a balun and changes the impedance creating a mismatch between radio and the antenna away from 50 ohms. This mismatch interferes with both the reciving and transmitting capabilities of the radio, causing a very high reflected power on transmit and poor reciving sensitivity. It should be about .3 microvolts or lower signal strength into the reciver for full quieting. Also the voltage line loss from the battery at 12vdc and 10 amps running less than 20 feet does not really require #6 or #8 wire. Number 12 is a great plenty. I will try the site you mentioned to get the technical data you are relating to. Oh Perch, don't toss the old antenna just yet.....Kaz

[perchjerker]

thanks Kaz, see what you can come up with...my old antenna has served me well all these years.

[Jerry]

Kaz:
The first paragraph in my post was mine. The second is a copy from tech support.

As for the band mid-point, Seaman electronics (biggest electronic shop in Erie, PA)felt that tuning an antenna was over-kill and just not necessary for vhf radios. They also said that for general fishing use that the low end antenna was just fine. I am not sure as to what is give/take for the agervation of fine-line reception. But, I do know of a lot of charter captains that have standard radios and a brand of Shakespear antenna and there systems work as well as needed at the 15-20 mile range.
Jerry

[Airwave(OH)]

I too have used both the 5225 and the 5206C. The 5225 seemed to recieve just a alittle bit better but as far as distance to transmit I have talked 25+-35 miles on the 5206C.<Right conditions) Be very paticular in your soldering of the PL59 connector. I believe this is where many problems that people have originate. Good Luck
Brion

[Jerry]

I have just done some research on the for the standard radio (Icom) and antenna. They both run from 156-157. The info for the radio is under each radio or specifics at Mhz http://www.boatus-store.com/mc_online/Electronics/item.asp?IID=34160 This is a link from boatus.com under their store. The antenna specs come from shakespear-ce.com
Jerry

[Denied]

Is antenna cable length part of the tuning process or can it be cut to length needed?

[Robertp]

Excellent question. I'm interested in the answer to that also.
Thanks

[JAK]

I did the same thing as you did about two years ago. I researched different antenna's and came up with the same info as you did. The 6225 Galaxy was supposed to be the way to go. I bought one and was ready to install it and found that it would not fit where I wanted. We were going to get a new boat in a year, so I did NOT install it.

I shared this information with a freind of mine that we have been fishing with for 6 or 7 years. ( We've both had the same equipment for the last five years ) He then removed his entry leval Shakesphere and installed a Galaxy series 6225. I made NO changes. I could now hear and transmit to him from areas that were marginal and/or not possible before. This was on the same lake so I know the conditions were as close as possible. ( We fish Lake Kabetogama, Namakan, and Rainy ) I believe that because of the large number of islands and all of the shorline points that this is a good test for VHF under less than ideal conditions. I also believe that if a person is going to be offshore with no type of obstructions between you and shore that it is less important to have the better quality antenna!

It made a large differance with just the good antenna on HIS boat only. I was using a Shakesphere four foot S/S base loaded antenna. Last spring we got our new boat and installed our Galaxy 6225. We fished about 70 days last year and I believe that the reception is greatly improved again!!! I will definatly spend the money again!!!

I also agree with some of the posts here that state that it is a MUST to properly solder ALL conections. I also used 10 gauge wire directly to the battery on both of my boats for power to the marine radio. ( I am using the same radio that I had on my last boat. Only the antenna has been changed )

I know that this was not a scientific experiment but the only changes were the days of the testing and the changes of the antenna's one at a time. All other varribles were the same.

Good luck with whatever you decide. If you buy a Galaxy 6225 you will notice that the antenna is qite a bit stiffer. You will want to spend the money and buy the good base to match.

I have NO affiliation with Shakeshere except that I use their product. If you do spend the money you will NOT be dissapointed!

[Kaz]

Jerry: Thanks for the clarification. The 5mi with any type of 8'er doesn't comput. I get 5+ with just an 18" 1/4 wave, no gain antenna. A poor sodering job at the connector can short the antenna and that can also create big problems for the radio. Like if you key the transmiter a long time, you could blow the final transisters. The protection circuit can be overridden if you keep the radio keyed to a direct short. By all means, take your time in sodering. I am a believer that the shortest direct route to the antenna is best. I know some think differantly, but on VHF it is OK. Now on the low bands 80 thru 10 meters feed line length has more of an impact. Longer antenna leads passing by other electrical equipment can cause interference which relates to noise on the signal, that is not good. Tuning a antenna is basicly, cutting the radiating rod above the ground point at the bottom of the antenna. As for radios I'm a Icom man. Most of my ham gear is Icom, I have about six. They are very sturdy and take a lot of abuse. I have dropped my hand held on the concrete and it still keeps on going. Keep up the COMUNICATING.....Kaz

[JAK]

My mistake the # is a 5225 Galaxy. Oops!

Also I checked about cutting off the antenna wire. There is a minimum length, I believe that it was about four feet. There is a certain amount of loss in extra wire that is not removed. The amount of loss is dependent on the type/quality of antenna lead.