3,000 Watts of Power

[wheels]

I'm currently using an X-75, but will be upgrading to a LMS-350a this season. I'm told that the x-75 has 600 watts of power and the LMS 350a has 3000, and that the 3000 watt has a tendancy to scare fish. Is there ANY truth to this?


"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"

[Sunshine]

If the 350a scared fish there would have been no fish caught in past tournaments. Most Pro's used the 350a in the past. That being said, I personally feel that no locator should be kept on for long time frames if you're stationary, otherwise go for it.

[Chuck Pederson MN]

I use a seperate gel deep cycle battery to run my 350A because it does use power. As far as scaring fish I've never used that excuse before. I have pulled the plug on the stereo when my kids play rap music now that scares me and the fish.

[Cangl]

Would not wan't to give out all my secret's but that "used" to be one of them especially when fishing vertical from boat to boat. 3000 watts can serve you well at 70mph thats for sure. Talking with Mark Martin, I have to agree a flasher is more of an advantage at high speeds and is as close to real time bottom as it gets. With its constant hiss instead of tic..tic..tic..whrrr of the digital ASP. Vexilar flashers the fish come onto a jig in 8ft and less of water with it running. Side by side my 600wt digital the same fish went right on by and at less than 8ft no show. Standing at the transom you can here 600watts auduibly out of the water!

Somedays it wouldn't matter but on the days it does, break off....

[2DOGS]

I must have been catching an awful lot of "insensitive" walleyes the last 2 years cause I use 3 finders when fishing 4 people out of my boat. An X-75 on the stern by the kicker, a 350A at the wheel, and a Hummingbird WIDE on the bow and catch walleye from 3' to 30'. The 350A is left on all the time, the other 2 are turned off when running. Never seem to have a problem catching fish whether jigging or pulling spinners but then I've never heard them emitting any sound either.

[livebait]

Maybe im wrong but when i put an fl18 or fl8 transducer to my ear i still hear that tic tic tic, i think the noise your hear is the motor on the unit yourself. I will say however that using the fl18 on the low power setting has seamed to keep fish bitting longer than off my color point system that i had.

fear no fish

[s.f.]

when the high powered graphs hit the water in the late 80's, stan berry and i tested this question, by attaching bobbers to walleyes we
had caught. we released them into various depths to insure a tue test based on the width of the cone. without fail, anything from 600 watts on up, kept us from getting close enough to pick up the bobber. same fish without the unit running, allowed us easy access to the bobber.
we also blame the 'sight of the boat' that makes a fish run but we also found fish fought less at the boat with the depthfinders off. when vertical fishing, VERTICAL, no doubt, the fish stay on a flasher screen longer.that all said...if you envision the angle of your line, in most cases, all the way to the bottem, you will see the fish you are getting to bite are not in the cone. in fact, i believe when spinner fishing with a 45 degree angle of the line, the graph kicks fish out to the bait. (this one of the many reason i use a genetron.
they use about one third the power and allow me to hunt one fish at a time.)
#49

[Wally doc]

That's an ingenious and interesting experiment. Do you think you might have "trained" the walleyes to avoid the depth finder noise and boat by having just caught them? It would be interesting to make trolling runs with and without the depth finder on or alternate time periods if still fishing to test it that way. My 350A is on from the second I leave the dock until it's sliding on the trailor but I've often wondered whether it turned slow biters off.

[s.f.]

i have also gone down into the cone and felt the effects. you don't stay there long...
you can do this in the deep end of a swimming pool.
#49

[Cangl]

My old Lowrance "Greenbox" has virtually no audible tics/pings. I was not aware that newer flashers where clicking, thanks for the info guy's. I am proably mounting a newer Eagle digital with temp at 1200 watts on the trolling motor. But then when it's time to jig, it's till time which runs 600watts and there are days it is shut off.

[Bob*]

I was reading about the new LCX-15mt by Lawrance, with the
double transducer:
50khz Transducer you have 1000 watts RMS or 8000w Peak yo Peak
200khz Transducer you have 500 watts RMS or 4000w Peak to Peak
single transducer:
200khz transducer you have 375 watts RMS or 3000 Peak to Peak
I beleave the LMS-350 is 3000 Peak to Peak.
Are you refering to the watts RMS or the watts Peak to Peak
If I have the LCX-15 would I scare off fish while using at slower speeds.( Or just fry them on the spot) I'm considering the LCX-15mt. I do a lot of long line trolling. What do you thing would be the adverse effects?:P

[s.f.]

when you are fishing your line at an angle more than the degrees of the cone your unit produces, especially long lining as you say you mostly do, your bait is in an unaffected zone. envision the fishing line at the 'typical' 45 degree spinner angle. no way will the fish
and or your bait be in the cone (20 degree cone angle,on the bottem), therefore, no reason for concern. fish that show up on your screen might get kicked outside the cone to where your bait is. that's a good thing...
#49

[HOT N TOT]

I use a flasher and my buddy uses a Eagle for ice fishing and do well.On most days you need to bring them off the bottom or seperate them from the rest to get them to bite.You could not do that without a unit.My flasher is a Zercom and it really ticks.

[shadownose@rcn.com]

You know, I thought that I was the only person who feltthat there was a correlation between the sonar unit and the fish. I had an Eagle Ultra Classic on a previous boat and a Bottomline Tournament Master on my current boat, and when I am anchored for Lake Trout, I have found that if I turn off my higher powered Bottomline, and turn on my lowered powered Garmin 160, I mark mark more fish under the boat, and even see the fish come up to check out the bait, while I never see that on my Bottomline. Whether it is the power ofthe Bottomline or it is just a piece of junk, I am still undecided of. All I do know is that the Eagle sonar unit I had previously used, I feel, was superior to the bottomline unit that I curently use. By the the way, is anyone looking for a Bottomline Tourney Master??????

[MadMax]

>when the high powered graphs hit the water in the late 80's,
>stan berry and i tested this question, by attaching bobbers
>to walleyes we
>had caught. we released them into various depths to insure a
>tue test based on the width of the cone. without fail,
>anything from 600 watts on up, kept us from getting close
>enough to pick up the bobber. same fish without the unit
>running, allowed us easy access to the bobber.
>we also blame the 'sight of the boat' that makes a fish run
>but we also found fish fought less at the boat with the
>depthfinders off. when vertical fishing, VERTICAL, no doubt,
>the fish stay on a flasher screen longer.that all said...if
>you envision the angle of your line, in most cases, all the
>way to the bottem, you will see the fish you are getting to
>bite are not in the cone. in fact, i believe when spinner
>fishing with a 45 degree angle of the line, the graph kicks
>fish out to the bait. (this one of the many reason i use a
>genetron.
>they use about one third the power and allow me to hunt one
>fish at a time.)
>#49
I just started cumming to this site a couple of days ago and i have been doing a lot of reading. I am ordering a new boat this month and i have been checking out all the new eletroncis. I have not heard of a Genetron. Is there a web site that i can go and check this unit out?? Reading about 3000 watts. On the new x15 is there a way you can turn the watts down when you are vertical fishing?? Also..what is a really good indash flasher to put in my boat that will read well at high speeds?? and not make a lot of noise.

[s.f.]

you can reach genetron at 701-298-0900. ask for dick knutson. his e-mail is genetron@juno.com
#49

[Cangl]

Capitals? oh no not capitals! Please it only takes one button to post like a normal WC'r, kinda like sealbeamed headlights you know? If theres a light on the dash, turn em off for oncoming posters!!!!!!!

[Mike A]

Interesting stuff. How does a 7520 compare here??? I don't have a 7520 but do have a 350a but I'm considering going to a pinpoint with a 7520.

[MadMax]

Thank you for the info s.f. I talked to Dick today on the phone and he sold me on the unit. So i orderd one.

[GENETRON]

WE HAVE HAVE HAD SEVERAL CALLS TODAY REGARDING WATTAGE OUTPUT FROM A TRANSDUCER. FIRST OFF LET US TALK ABOUT RMS AND PEAK TO PEAK RATINGS. BASICALLY THESE TWO RATING SYSTEMS ARE JUST THAT. RATING SYSTEMS. SOME SONAR COMPANIES LIKE TO USE THE PEAK TO PEAK RATING WHICH IS 8 TIMES RMS TO TRY AND IMPRESS THE CONSUMER WITH HOW MUCH POWER THEIR BRAND OF SONAR HAS. THIS CAN BE KIND OF DECEPTIVE BECAUSE TRANSDUCER POWER OUTPUT REALLY DOES NOT PLAY A MAJOR ROLE IN SHALLOW WATER APPLICATIONS. WE CALL SHALLOW WATER 100 FEET OR LESS. OVER 90% OF THE WORLDS SPORT FISHERMEN ARE FISHING IN WATER 100 FEET OR LESS. NOW LET US TAKE THIS SCENARIO A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD. WE HERE AT GENETRON FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT HIGH POWERED UNITS SPOOK FISH.YOU TAKE A HIGH POWERED TRANSDUCER(3000 WATTS OR MORE) AND PUT IT IN AN AQUARIUM AND SEE HOW FAST THE FISH WILL TRY TO CLIMB THE WALLS TO GET OUT. LIKE WISE INDEPENDENT TESTS HAVE ALSO SHOWN THAT HIGH POWERED TRANSDUCERS WILL SPOOK FISH IN REALLY SHALLOW WATER. THE LATERAL LINE OF A FISH IS LIKE A SONAR RECIEVER AND THEY CAN FEEL VIBRATIONS FROM ANOTHER FISH OR A SONAR. NOW IN TODAYS WORLD MANY FISH HAVE BECOME MORE ACCLIMATED TO GETTING ZAPPED BY TRANSDUCER SIGNALS BUT THEY DO BECOME MORE SPOOKY THE SHALLOWER THE WATER. THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE SELF SERVING BUT WE HERE AT GENETRON BRAG ABOUT HOW LOW OUR TRANSDUCER OUTPUT IS VERSUS OTHER COMPANIES WHO BRAG HOW HIGH THEIR UNITS OUTPUT IS. WE THINK THAT WAY FOR THE VERY REASONS THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. THE GENETRON HAS A VARIABLE OUTPUT SO IN SHALLOW WATER WE ARE ONLY PUTTING OUT 15 WATTS OF POWER. IT IS THE LISTENING CAPABILITY OF A SONAR THAT A FISHERMAN SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT IN OUR OPINION THAN IT IS TO BE IMPRESSED ABOUT HIGH THE OUTPUT WATTAGE IS IN WATER 100 FEET OR LESS. WE USED TO GET A KICK OUT OF DOING SPORTSHOWS IN PAST YEARS BECAUSE AS MANY OF YOU KNOW THE GENETRON WILL WORK IN THE AIR AS WELL AS THE WATER. SO WE USED TO STAND IN FRONT OF THE BOOTH WITH A LIVE TRANSDUCER DEMONSTRATING THE GENETRON.THE POINT IS THIS. NINE OUT OF TEN PEOPLE WHO WOULD WALK UP WOULD SAY WOW THAT MACHINE REALLY MUST BE PUTTING OUT THE POWER TO READ IN THE AIR LIKE THAT. IT REALLY BLEW THEM AWAY WHEN I TOLD THEM THAT WE WERE ONLY OPERATING AT 15 WATTS!I HAVE A LOT OF FUN GOING TO SCHOOLS AND DEMONSTRATING THIS PRINCIPLE TO KIDS BECAUSE THEY CAN PUT THE TRANSDUCER NEXT TO THEIR EARS AND CAN HARDLY HEAR THE PING AND STILL SEE THEIR FRIENDS STANDING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM WAVING THEIR HANDS ON THE SCREEN.TRY PUTTING A HIGH POWERED TRANSDUCER NEXT TO YOUR EAR OR BETTER YET SWIM IMMEDIATELY UNDERNEATH ONE AND YOU WILL FEEL WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING ASKED BY YOU FOLKS ARE EXCELLENT QUESTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO SONAR AND I HOPE WE HAVE BEEN OBJECTIVE IN ANSWERING SOME OF THEM. THE DEBATE WILL RAGE ON ABOUT POWER OUTPUT OF TRANSDUCERS BETWEEN HIGH AND LOW OUTPUT. WE CHOOSE LOW. DICK KNUTSON GENETRON

[s.f.]

glad to help...if you have any questions about how to run it, let me.
(contact # at npaa site) i am easily confused by all the functions these and other machines offer, so i use it one way, that works fine in all applications for walleyes. too many mystery buttons for me!
congratulations!
#49

[Cangl]

With practice any graph can be "read" I for one have never beleived to much in ASP and little fishes, I proably will end up vertical jigging with 275 watt MagnaII AS usaul, The new Ultra Classic plus is more for trolling and temp (600 watts), and with both the power cord and transducer interchangeable, the "extra one" will be in the top of my box! Next innovation I am looking for is a "distance or filter" bar that let's you know when the Mr. Limpetts are scattering the your "wolves"in the near future theres hope anyhow.

Don't mind me the Detroit rivers wide open and 2 degrees warmer then the St Clair and all the ramps are closed? And very little ice anywhere!

[perchjerker]

Cangs-

Talked to a guy who used to work one of the ramps downriver a few years ago and the reason they close the ramps when they do has nothing to do with the presence of ice - its just that they cant justify keeping them open in the winter when there is hardly anyone using them, and who knows when the weather will change. They gotta pay someone to man the place. Thats what he told me they did it at that ramp. Not really sure about the others.

[wheels]

>when you are fishing your line at an angle more than the
>degrees of the cone your unit produces, especially long
>lining as you say you mostly do, your bait is in an
>unaffected zone. envision the fishing line at the 'typical'
>45 degree spinner angle. no way will the fish
>and or your bait be in the cone (20 degree cone angle,on the
>bottem), therefore, no reason for concern. fish that show
>up on your screen might get kicked outside the cone to where
>your bait is. that's a good thing...
#49

S.F.,

If you make the assumptions that you are fishing from the front of a 17' boat and from that seat you are approx 3 ft higher than the transducer(a guess) which is mounted in the back of the boat, then you are wrong. When fishing from 6' to 8' deep, using a 12" bottom bouncer at a 45 degree angle, trailing a 4' snell, your bait is directly within the cone angle. In fact at 10' deep your bait is less than 18' out of the cone. I realize there are a lot of assumptions here, but my point is, that it is very possible to have your bait within the cone angle at any given time unless you are long lining.


"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"

[s.f.]

i see your point, however, at those shallow depths, the cone itself, at 20 degrees, is so small, taking into affect that your rod is stuck out away from the path of the boat, i doubt you are in it much. and for the most part, when fishing from the front, the cone starts from the trollin' motor which is in front of your line already. of course,
all lines at various positins in the boat will be in the cone sometimes. but with this in mind, you can work at eliminating that potential for ongoing periods of time. good point though. i got ya thinking!
#49

[wheels]

You got me thinking all right. You made me use math that I haven't touched for years. The length of the rod out the boat is one factor that I forgot about which would surely put you out of the cone.

Thanks, that was kind of a fun exercise!

"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"