Lake Michigan Question?

[arrow]

I wanted to ask this for a long time? I've caught plenty of brown trout this spring ranging from 1 lb. to 15 lbs.. I just wondered if these fish I'm catching are all planted fish or do you think that some may be natural reproduction? What do you think about the other trout and salmon in Lake michigan? I believe that about 1/2 are stocked fish and the others are natural. Lets hear some input please!!!

[SeaCat]

As for brown trout, I'm not sure about the natural reproduction -- I would guess that some does occur.

Steelhead definately reproduce in many streams but I suspect that the percentage is more in the 15-25% range.

Chinook also reproduce in many streams -- the Manistee, Muskegon and Pere Marquette all have natural runs. In fact, the PM is entirely a natural run -- no DNR plants have ever been made there at it is one of the most prolific in the state. I assume that it being a natural run is one reason that the salmon run in the PM is almost always starting in August rather than the traditional September for most other streams.

A DNR report I sas a year or so ago in regards to planting levels said that about 30-40% of the Kings in Lk Michigan are natural runs. Along with reducing numbers of preadators on bait fish in the lake, this was one of their reasons for reducing plant levels.

Lake Trout and Coho also reproduce but I don't think that it would sustain the fishery very long without plants. The Platte is the only cold water river I know of that gets significant returns of Coho -- the Grand and St. Joe get runs but I think are too warm for spawning.

Ryan

[AfterDawn]

You can also look for fin clips -- clipped adipose or pectoral fins are a sure sign of planted fish.

[cisco]

In Wisconsin waters the clipped adipose fin means the DNR wants it -- fish contains coded wire in the head.
Some stocked salmonids will slip thru without a fin clip, but the numbers are not great. Wis waters do not lend themselves to natural repo, according to DNR. In fact, the Seeforellen strain of browns, for example, cannot reproduce. It is strictly a trophy fish plant -- several already caught over 34 pounds, with prospects of plus 45.
Visit the egg-taking facilities at Racine or at Kewaunee if you are interested in the peculiar and fascinating lives of salmonids.
Salmon are the only animals to be born orphans and to die childless.

[Mac]

those fin clipped fish are worth $5 for the head it you take it to the designated drop off ( only the head)

[Grey Beard]

There is limited reproduction of salmon and browns on the WI side of Lake Michigan. However, the seeforellen strain is not a hybrid, it is an egg producing strain raised in the hatchery and stocked in Lake Michigan. Here is something I wrote for the Milwaukee GLSF newsletter:

Most of you know what a Seeforellen strain brown trout is but I heard it called a hybrid on one of the TV shows and that is not correct. A hybrid is a cross between two different species like a splake, which is a cross between a lake trout and brook trout. A strain is a group of individuals of a species, which share some unique characteristics. Like the summer running skamania strain of steelhead. My understanding is that it is a strain of brown taken from some lakes in Europe which have some characteristics, which differ from the domestic browns, introduced in the States in the 1800's. By planting Seaforellens, the fishery biologists were hoping that the forage in the Great Lakes would produce some 50-pound class fish. They seem to be well on their way, considering the last two state record browns were Seeforellens in the 35# class.

Some of the characteristics that make the Seeforellen different from the domestic browns are: They spawn at an older age than domestics do, usually age 3 + or older rather than age 2+, thus more time in the lake to grow before returning to the streams. They make their peak return to the streams and rivers about six weeks later than domestic browns, in mid to late November rather than Mid October. Some Seeforellen don't even spawn until January. This is an advantage in the Great Lakes because by then the water has cooled some and reduces the risk for fungal infection; thus more survive the rigors of spawning. They typically have fewer spots than the domestic strain and are often longer and leaner in appearance. Their color is usually lighter and the flash in the water often fools me, thinking I have a salmon hooked until it hits the net. Best of all the bigger ones have and attitude and strength like the kings and the medium sized ones seem to have a few rainbow genes judging by the acrobatic displays

[cisco]

At a conference in Cleveland, WI (Lakeshore Tech) the DNR biologists responsible for stocking the then new Seeforellen strain made the claim they do not and will not reproduce in Lake Michigan. They grow fast and live longer and one of the reasons for the greater size is the fact they are sterile -- similar to the triploid process tried years ago on a number of experimental Chinooks. A lot of size can be gained when the energy needed for the reproduction process is not used, e.g. the search for streams, running the streams, and the rest. So far,none of the big Seeforellens have been caught in the harbors or the Root River type streams -- they remain in the big water.

[Grey Beard]

If they are sterile, where do the eggs come from?????? According to Brian Belonger with the WI DNR, a fishery biologist staitioned in Marinette who spearheaded the first plantings of seeforellen, Subject: Re: seeforellen

"Mike, We take seeforellen eggs from fish in the Menominee R., Kewaunee R.,
and Root R. Those eggs are hatched at Wild Rose and the yearlings produced
are stocked back in the lake. They are a reproducing strain."

[cisco]

What you described is NOT a reproducing strain. If it were, eggs would not be taken, then used to hatch in a hatchery, then put into the lake (isn't that stocking?). When all the hubbub was made over the Seeforellen, the DNR said it would not be a reproducing strain. Your illustration does not change that -- stocking is not reproduction.

[Grey Beard]

There seems to be some confusion between the ability of the fish to reproduce vs the ability of the environment in the tributaries to sustain the eggs that are deposited and fertilized. You stated they are sterile and that is NOT true. The haploid salmon were either treated with hormones or Xrays to sterilize them (an experiment that failed miserably). Sterile hybrids are crosses between species genetically dissimilar enough that they are unable to produce offspring. In fact the splake, which is a cross between a brook trout and a lake trout I'm told could reproduce but again, no good spawning areas so they just keep raising them in the hatcheries. Skamania, Ganoraska, Chambers Creek are strains of the rainbow and their eggs are taken from the same weirs in the same streams of L Michigan and taken to the hatcheries and the reared offspring planted in the lake. The rainbows are not self-sustaining in the WI waters of L Mich either but again, not related to their ability to produce viable eggs and sperm. Unfortunately the WI streams that flow into Lake Michigan are not of the quality necessary to sustain reproduction, unlike some of the streams on the Michigan side. I would be glad to bet a beer on this but keep in mind, I only bet on sure things!!!!!!!!!!!Maybe you can get the MI DNR guy to pay your bet.

[Grey Beard]

There seems to be some confusion between the ability of the fish to reproduce vs the ability of the environment in the tributaries to sustain the eggs that are deposited and fertilized. You stated they are sterile and that is NOT true. The haploid salmon were either treated with hormones or Xrays to sterilize them (an experiment that failed miserably). Sterile hybrids are crosses between species genetically dissimilar enough that they are unable to produce offspring. In fact the splake, which is a cross between a brook trout and a lake trout I'm told could reproduce but again, no good spawning areas so they just keep raising them in the hatcheries. Skamania, Ganoraska, Chambers Creek are strains of the rainbow and their eggs are taken from the same weirs in the same streams of L Michigan and taken to the hatcheries and the reared offspring planted in the lake. The rainbows are not self-sustaining in the WI waters of L Mich either but again, not related to their ability to produce viable eggs and sperm. Unfortunately the WI streams that flow into Lake Michigan are not of the quality necessary to sustain reproduction, unlike some of the streams on the Michigan side. I would be glad to bet a beer on this but keep in mind, I only bet on sure things!!!!!!!!!!!Maybe you can get the MI DNR guy to pay your bet.