Buyer Beware

[jay]

I have just been at one of the very popular auction sites. Buyer Beware!!! Some of the fishfinders, radios, chargers, are going for a lot more than what you can buy them for at say, Cabela's or BassPro. In one case I saw a uniden marine radio listed as 289.00 value go for double the price you can buy it elsewhere.

RIP-OFFS!!!!!!!

[Husky]

Do you see the "caveat emptor" line at the bottom of the ebay listings? These sellers are not really ripping off people if these people want to bid that high. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what the value of an item is before he bids --can't blame the seller.

[tbomn]

Things are worth whatever the seller can get for it. Thus, what you pay for something is what THE BIDDER thinks it is worth. No rip off, just uneducated bidders. NOT Buyer Beware, Buyer be smart!!!!!!

[perchjerker]

Exactly. It goes the other way, too. I picked up a X-70A for $45. I asked the guy why he let it go so cheap and he told me he thought it would go for a lot more. I still dont understand why he used the "buy now" option for $45. I jumped on it. I also picked up 2 nice reels from a guy who has a pawn shop. The deals are there if you are smart about it.

[MAGNA19]

the buyer beware is just it.if someone can sell something they bought for $1,for $10,thats his good fortune.sometimes you dont make out good on these deals,sometimes you do.if you dont like the price,dont bid on them.set your max price and stick to it.

i got 2 big jon counters with springs,2 spools of downrigger cable,a offshore snapweight systrem,2 big jon pullys,and 2 25 yd spools of 6lb seaguar line and 2 25 yd spools of seaguar 15 lb test line,everything new for $25.do you think i was going to let that go by without buying it.nope!!!

[jay]

Let me get this straight. Some of you are saying it is alright to commit this type of fraud on your fellow man and it is the responsibility of the buyer to make sure he is not getting ripped off. Your thinking is a little warped guys!!!

I guess it will be alright to sell my neighbor my 60 hp motor at a premium price even though I know it will cost him at least 800.00 to repair it. SHHHH he doesn't know a thing about motors, sucker!!!!

No wonder the world is in the shape it's in......

[perchjerker]

No, your example is whats warped.

We are not talking about selling someone a defective product. I dont see anything about that in any of these posts.

Better read the posts more carefully.

[jay]

I must have hit a nerve perchjerker. Fraud is fraud no matter how you look at it. Paying triple for something by an unsuspecting honest person who may have used the auction for the first time is not OK in my book. I guess you are the only intelligent person on here since you read everything so carefully!!!

[punch1]

Jay, I can see both sides. If I, as a private seller, post something on one of these sites and the item sells for more than it's worth, that's all right I guess. However the businesses that sell items for an inflated amount on these sites, I don't have as much patience for. Especially the ones with the minimums and reserves. I agree it is their right to sell what they want for what they ask, however it is my right, and I have done this before, to email the high bidders and provide them with a direct link to that same item sold elswhere brand new at a much lesser cost. I have had many people, particulary those inexperienced with ebay, express great thanks for the links to less expensive alternatives.

Case in point are some of the used Lowrance X85's selling for over $400 one these sites, when they have been available for the past month at $300 brand new and some with a free speed/temp and free shipping. This is just one example of a few that I see out there.

Bottom line, it is a case of buyer beware!

[perchjerker]

No, no big deal.

Its been buyer beware ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper.

Its just that your example made no sense to me.

My reputation on this board is pretty fair, I think. I spend a lot of time trying to help people out and learning lots of new things in the process.

[Fishingdog]

You are way off base Jay. First off, if you are selling something, you better know what it is worth or you do not deserve to get paid that amount. On these auction sites, there is the option to list a reserve price which allows you to enter the rock bottom dollar you wish to get for it. If you are going to buy something, it is also your responsibility to check what it is worth. It does not take much investigating to determine the value of something. I know there are some things that I own and would sell for a fraction of what they may be worth just to get it off my hands. What value is it to me if it just sits and collects dust? That may very well be the opinion of some that sell.

I think you need to check out Webster's dictionary and read what the definition of "fraud" is. There is no intentional trickery here, just making a bid on something that the seller has control on whether to let it go for that price.

You are a proud supporter of Bill Clinton aren't you?

[mike1410]

Jay, you have just hit on the essence of capitalism - which is the type of society we live in. Excluding trickery or deceipt, which is fraud, capitalist societies can only exist through the free exchange (sale) of goods and services. People must be free to buy and sell at whatever price they can get. In this environment, ignorance on the part of the buyer or seller, results in a bad deal for him/her. Incorrectly that's what I think you are calling fraud.

[tinman]

Jay, you sound a little bitter. Maybe you've been the victim of some bad deals. But what you are suggesting seems to have some flaws. For example, consider a farmer who retires and has a farm auction. A buyer really wants his old combine and bids $5,000. Are you suggesting that if the farmer believes the combine is only worth $3,000, he should refund the buyer $2,000? And if he didn't, the farmer would be a crook?

I believe auctions have always been "Buyer Beware". As a result, sometimes very good deals are available. In any event, the seller is not to blame if a buyer pays too much at auction.

Good Luck
Tinman

[jay]

I think my definition of fraud is right on: makes a false or misleading statement in any advertisement addressed to the public or to a substantial segment thereof for the purpose of promoting the purchase or sale of property.

In the case to which I was referring, the seller stated the item's
regular sale price was almost 300.00 when in fact the item never sells for more than 100.00. This is a fraudulent and misleading statement. Yes the example I used was poor in relationship but it was a good example of fraud.

Sorry if I offended some of you, I was only trying to alert less experienced buyers. I did learn one thing from this experience though, some of you are very quick to judge or label others who disagree with a select few on this board....

[MAGNA19]

well,if you dont like the prices,dont look at them.if someone wants it bad enough they will pay for it,no matter how much it costs.some people buy and sell stuff on ebay,some just buy.it is buyer beware.bid what you would pay for it,if you win,good,if not,oh well,someone wants it that bad they will pay the price for it.

[perchjerker]

I understand what you are saying now. Someone claims something sells for more than it actually does. You make more sense now. I didnt mean to offend you either. Everyone is entitled to their own opnion.

I buy and sell stuff on ebay, got some good deals, some I probably would have done as good or better just buying the thing. Have sold things (mostly tools) that the buyers probably feel the same way about. As long as I represent the item honsestly and dont inflate the shipping charges (its happend to me) I can sleep at night. I dont know if you are familiar with ebay, but they have a rating system where you provide feedback about the seller (or buyer). All my transactions have had excellent feedback. It's a nice feature that helps prevent some unscruplous (sp) people out there.

[firebird]

I have been to live auctions where things are bid up well over their value as a used item and even over the retail price for the item if new. The secret to any auction is to know how much you are willing to spend. If you win and you got it at price you think is resonable, great. If you lose, well, maybe next time. The worst thing is not being able to see the item first hand. Even more reason to be careful. The goal of the auctioneer is to get the most dollar for the items sold. They can always tell if there are buyers or watchers in the first few minutes. A sell on Ebay is basically the auctioneer.

[Cangl]

Deals or steals? I hear a good portion of the stuff avaiable is hot anyhow. Pawn broker running a second set of books and now he has the internet?

Just remember, the next time you go out to your rig and it's been selectively "shopped"______........

Thieves need people more then people need thieves!!!!!!!

[beetle]

I may be wrong, but I always thought when something is sold at auction, it will go to the highest bidder. No matter how much over real value the high bid is. I just don't see where anyone was taken advantage of. The seller sold his item and the buyer got what he wanted. Sounds pretty simple to me.

[Jeff Berg]

I've bought too many crankbaits from various sellers on EBay. I've not had a bad experience yet.

It's a great place to pick-up the old style Thundersticks. Just don't bid against me... I'm crazy for Thundersticks.

[punch1]

I think that everyone is missing the whole point and beating up on the original author unnecessarily. He mentioned that the original ad was misleading and said the radio usually sells for $300, when in fact no Uniden radio ever made, gold plated or not, sells for that much. I can see his point that if someone is naive and trusts the ad, they think they may be getting a good deal.

Here's a tip. To judge the fair value of the item, do a search of the CLOSED auctions for that same item and see what it fetched then. I use this feature quite often.

[MK]

If someone is shopping on EBAY then he obviously has internet access. All anyone has to do is a price search on one of several price scanning sites to find out a price new for the item and decide if the EBAY price is right. If they aren't willing to take the time to educate themselves, then buyer beware. By the way, If you use the price scan sites you will find that different retailers sometimes sell the exact item for prices that vary SIGNIFICANTLY. Does this make them guilty of fraud? And many of them will claim different list prices.

Some may disagree, but an auction is usually the best indicator of market value. It may not be worth it to you but another buyer may have a motivation unknown to you and is willing to pay a an amount that seems to be a premium. Maybe they know something you don't about a particular item or maybe they have a personal reason for wanting it.

[Wondering]

Cangl has an interesting point. Seems like a reasonable premise that a portion of what your seeing there is stolen. No market for stolen stuff = less theft.

[BlackSilver]

You have to know what you're looking at. In my experience the bargains are there sometimes, but they're few and far between. People who haven't researched the real price often bid things up, even above retail.

I once shopped on eBay for several months trying to pick up a few Stradic reels for my boys (they're raising families, so can't afford such extravagance). The reels almost always sold within $5.00 of new retail, even if they showed some wear. Gave up, and got a "quantity discount" from from a bait shop.

SET the hook!!!

Hans

[Al]

So Jay, to your way of thinking, if I go to Wally mart and buy an x65 for 250.00, yet Kmart has it for 50.00 less, Wally mart is committing fraud? Come on. You ever been to an estate sale? An auto auction? There are always some items that go for more than they are worth. Sometimes people just like to bid, some just want to "win"....some are just idiots. You can't protect everyone...and it is a free market. With your way of thinking, we'd have that law that congress looked at in the late 80's that wanted all stores like wally mart to sell at list price, or manf. sug. retail, to give the smaller chains a "fair chance". It's just as bogus.

[Smarty Pants]

I think Jay needs to read up on what the word auction means. I would bet it says something about "highest bidder". Stolen or not is beside the point. It is up to the bidder to research the value of the product. There is no lack of information to find the value of a product. If the buyer gets a product for half of the going value is there a problem also?

[Homer]

I don't think that anyone was targeting you in particular, just your original argument. You left out an extremely key piece of information, that the seller was quoting a fraudulent retail price. Without that information, your point (people are bidding too high at auctions) seemed pretty silly. When people questioned that original point, you got rude.

Hopefully, you'll rethink your statement "I did learn one thing from this experience though, some of you are very quick to judge or label others who disagree with a select few on this board...." From what I've seen, nothiong could be further from the truth.

[Fishingdog]

Thank you Homer, I was not aware that the listed suggested price was incorrect in the sellers comments. That being the case, I would agree that it is fraudulant and misleading. I was just under the impression that the bid just kept going up and up and surpassed its value. I could have refrained from the "clinton" comment and apologize, I just really get tired of people thinking that everyone else is responsible. Whatever happened to being responsible for ones own actions?

[Peanut]

Perhaps this old horse has been beaten enough, but I'll take one more kick - the complaint is not that an item was offered for sale, and someone bought it for way more than it's worth. That, as many of you pointed out, is the very essence of an auction.

The point made originally may be interpeted that way, but has now been clarified - what happened was a seller in his description of an item said it sold regularly at $300, which grossly overstated its actual selling price. So, when someone bid, they were bidding on an item they were told was worth more than it was.

I agree that it is always prudent to do your own fact verification on anything you buy, but, this type of selling strategy is not acceptable business practice, and I think the post was just giving us a head's up on it.

Sorry all, but I don't see much here to keep fighting about....

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Husky]

Don't car and truck manufacturers list their vehicles (in contests and game shows/autions) by their manufacturers suggested retail pprice? Yet almost no car or truck is sold at this price. Is this then considered to be a fraudulent practice too?
You guys must really be suffering in this off season--this issue is being picked so extensively that watching paint dry seems exiting!

[sib]

I can buy gas for a lot cheaper at the gas station than I can at a marina. There are many ways to look at most issues. If one buys gas at the marina did they get ripped-off, or did they not think ahead and are guilty of lack of planning? I guess in the end it comes down to choice. They still had the choice not to buy the gas at the marina.

The market determines the price. The price is what ever people are willing to pay. If people would do their Due Diligence and know the range of a products value, keep their ego in check, they will be fine.

Winning in an auction does not always equate to being the highest bidder. Winning at an auction is knowing what something is worth and knowing where to draw your line.

Always look at the product price and add the shipping, handling and insurance(if applicable), and look at the new figure. This is the figure you should use for the price of the item, not the bid price.

Use the proxie bidding tool and set you high limit, then be true to your limit and walk away if it goes higher.

And yes, MSRP prices are always inflated and never the shelf price. In Jay's case, whether or not it is fraud has everything to do with how that sentence read. If it read this item "sells" X amount of dollars, he may have a case. If the auction read "manufacturers suggested retail price is" x amount of dollars and they figure quoted was the actual MSRP, then it wasn't fraud.

Today I was the only bidder and bought a new in box quick silver prop for my Merc. I bid $29.99 and have $7.50 in shipping. So I got the prop for $37.49, much less than what I can get it for locally. I was fully prepared to let someone else take the prop if went beyond my limit.

[Fish Hound]

I know it doesn't seem right or fair: But when you own something and want to sell it, it's worth whatever someone else will pay for it. I've been looking at the auction sites for a new computer. They have bids on refurbished computers with windows 95, 98 or ME, without monitors going for more than you can buy a new complete package with windows XP. Doesn't make sence, but makes lots of cents. I work for a sporting goods store. We have alot of lures by Rapala and Storm at $1.47 to $2.97. I sa the same ones on E-bay for $5.99 and up. I have customer that buys them by the dozens and puts them on E-bay. Wish I would have thought of it first.

The Hound

[Husky]

"...In Jay's case, whether or not it is fraud has everything to do with how that sentence read. If it read this item "sells" X amount of
dollars, he may have a case. If the auction read "manufacturers suggested retail price is" x amount of dollars and they figure quoted was the actual MSRP, then it wasn't fraud...."


Even if the seller says an item "regularly sells for X dollars" all he has to do is have it priced from his business at that price (even for a day) and he is not commiting an act of fraud. This is done every day by numerous companies. Mark an item up for a day or two, then take a "sale percentage" off--only to find it is little or no savings over the regular price.
Proving fraud in this auction situation would be next to impossible.

[Gumbo]

Jay, the only thing I can add to the previous comments is that you need to learn how ebay or auctions work. You can list, say, a reel for $10. After that, it's the BUYERS who bid it up. Often items sell for more than you can buy them new at the store. But those same auctions usually start out at a fraction of that cost. So it's not just caveat emptor, since that has more to do with the quality of the item purchased and not the value. Many items are brand new.

Also realize that ebay is world-wide service. Some items are not available in some countries or even certain parts of the US. So a buyer might be willing to pay more than the new price just to get the item. Or maybe they want to complete their collection. Or maybe they just get caught in the bidding. Either way, the seller has NO control over the price, other than setting the initial bid price, the Buy It Now price, and a Reserve price. And if you set these prices too high, you won't get any bids.

[jay]

Thanks peanut. I had my grandson bouncing in my lap at the time and left out a few words. My fault!!! All I was trying to do was caution people. By all the opinion/responses this has generated you would of thought I said something derogatory about Lunds!

p.s. Don't start, I just bought a new Lund!