Pros- Tourney definitions please..

[bigfish1965]

Now that this forum is here can the pros please give us not-so-pros some definitions and direction.
For example: Is there a difference between co-angler and amateur? What are the responsibilites of these two? What are the responsibilities of the pro? What does the pro provide as far as equipment? What is the amateur/co-angler expected to provide? What is good ettiquette for the co/amateur?
What are some common mistakes or no-nos co's and amateurs make?
Your guidance and experience is appreciated!

[Been There]

I've fished both sides of the PWT so I'll chime in and try to help. An Am or Co brings a rainsuit,lunch and personal gear. The Pro supplies everything else. Common mistakes are sometimes the Am is a little tentative and a bit intimidated by the whole experience. I had Pros tell me to treat the boat and equipment as if it were mine and to just relax. I always passed that on to my Am partners too. I DID have a Pro who treated me like a piece of crap at a tourney on my home water. I still feel like he cheated me out of a plaque and some merchandise but I got over it. The other Pros I fished with made me feel like a part of the team and that made for some great days. The Am should tell the Pro what his experience level is. If he hasn't fished with boards, for example, the Pro will take the time before going out to explain it a little. The same holds true for bottom bouncers etc. I always had a goal of learning something new with each Pro. Above all, keep a positive attitude and do all you can to be an asset to your team. Pros should do their best to make the experience a safe and successful one and treat the Am with respect while teaching him or her about Walleye fishing. You'll get lots of comments on this. This is just my 2 cents worth.

Good Luck

[FreeByrd]

Bigfish,
I copied this from a thread I replied to a few weeks ago that was specific to the RCL Co-Angler experience. Most of it would apply to the PWT as well.

These can be a fun experience if you enter with the right mindset.
I'm looking forward to doing the PWT Amatuer side fo rthe first time this year on Erie.

Steve
******************************

I've fished two RCL events on Lake Erie out of Port Clinton as a Co Angler. This is my home water and I fish most every weekend from April 1 to Nov 15, so I know the area, techniques, etc. pretty well. I've had a good experience both times, made some new friends, caught nice fish, and learned a few things that I've incorporated into my trolling program. I'd recommend trying to hook up with someone in advance for some prefishing which will be much more relaxed than on tournament day - and a good idea expecially if the site is a place you are trying to learn and may want to return to on your own - you are more likely to see more locations, techniques tried as the Pro goes about making up their gameplan. By tournament day, the gameplan is pretty well made up. While you can still definitely learn things - especially if the pro has a good gameplan and the fish are cooperating, I think you will get a better learning experience during prefishing to an extent as see how the pro goes about covering water, etc.

As far as what you need to do on tournament days - a few basic things I would say:
1) Actually the night before at the meeting when you meet your pro partner and then at the weighin your partner for the next day - make sure you get contact info - cell phone or hotel, etc. Make sure you know EXACTLY where and when you are to meet the next day. Be ON TIME (Early).

2) Be honest with your partner about your experience level and what you are comfortable doing. Don't let your ego get in the way and try to "impress" the pro. If you are fishing somewhere that multiple techniques are used, if you are proficient at one and not another - let the pro know. They may have a program for either technique, and MAY choose what to do based on their partner. Don't expect the pro to alter their gameplan - just give them info so they can make the best decision for both of you. After the basic conversation about experience level, etc. - don't "pester" the pro with suggestions - if they want your input they will ask. It can be tense if the fish aren't cooperating. Know that the pro is certainly doing everything they can to put fish in the boat. In my experience they have all asked how you did the day before but if they don't make sure you let them know where you stand - especially if you have a shot to make the cut. Even if they had a bad day 1, most of them will do whatever they can to help you make the cut on day 2 - a performance good enough for you to make the cut may be enough for them to cash a check - and if not I think they at least have a pride factor that they like to see their Co Anglers make the cut. Being honest with the pro also includes your experience level and comfort at the launch ramp. You should really try to gain a basic comfort level backing a trailer up before entering one of these events.

3) Have appropriate clothing including raingear, sunglasses, hat, warm cloths appropriate for the conditions. If you need to put on sunscreen - do it in the morning before you meet the pro, so you don't waste fishing time doing this and can wash your hands good.

4) Bring whatever you plan to eat and drink and bring something for the Pro - like you would for a fishing buddy. A Subway sandwich usually is a winner.

5) Give the Pro some gas / expense money for the day. I have given all my Pro's $40 a day. If you break / lose something - offer to pay for it.

6) Don't disclose info about previous partners / locations / tehcniques. This is in the rules.

I'm sure there are plenty of other things that others will come up with.

This year I'm planning to do the Port Clinton RCL and also the PWT Cleveland events on the Co Angler and Amatuer side. Will be my first time for PWT. If you are going far away from home I may lean towards the PWT as you know you will get 3 days of fishing compared to likely only 2 on the RCL.

Good Luck,
Steve

[Sunshine]

The Role of a Co-Angler by Colleen Lampman - 12/15/2003

http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/01.23.2004/341/The.Role.of.a.Co-Angler/index.htm

very nice article.

[HARSH]

Very good question and good replies so far. RCL and PWT Co-anglers and Amatuers have similar responsibilities as do the Pros they fish with. The number one requirement in a partner is a CLEAR HEAD. Onslaught of a physical illness / motion sickness, food poisoning ect.. are unexpected events that can happen to any of us and are certainly forgiveable. The worst mistake I have seen with partners is the one that results from the night before. Partners who show up still inebriated, hungover and suffering from lack of sleep are not acceptable. Simply put, anglers do not belong in a boat whether a so called "Pro", Amatuer, or co-angler. I have had a drunk show up late at the National Anthem as I was being given a replacement partner. Have had individuals so hung over that they slept/passed out for the entire morning waking up only to puke all over the inside and outside of my boat. Then try to clean it up with their bare hands. Had individuals so sick and hungover that they could not even get up to net my fish let alone contribute themselves to the days catch. All these individuals at days end showed great remorse and apologized profusely. What I needed in a partner was not apologies, but performance. The best thing you can do for a partner and more importantly yourself is show up with a clear head. One amatuer partner who showed up sick and hungover the third day of a tournament said he went out and partied the night before because "He had no chance to place in the money". He apologized profusely after we left the stage for "screwing my chances" In fact by not being able to fish and not catching any fish himself that day he "screwed" his own chances as well. On the third day he had advanced from below 100th to 1 or 2 places out of the money, narrowly missing the "Cool under Pressure" award. I can assure you, having had to even net my own fish that day he didn't deserve an award. As I ended up in 4th place for that tournament, any positive contribution on his part would have been appreciated also. As a Amatuer or Co-angler if you encounter a "Pro" partner with these types of problems report it to the tournament officials. You deserve to get an honest performance out of your "Pro" as much as a "Pro" partner does of you.

My written instructions to Amatuers/Co-anglers prior to a tournament now clearly state that hangovers are not tolerated in competition and believe me they are not. Nor are they in any other serious Professionals boat. Do yourself a favor and keep a clear head and the rest of what you need to do will quickly fall into place.

[Sunshine]

Nice reply Pete.

Are these written instructions that you give to Amatuers/Co-anglers something that you would be willing to share? It's a great idea.

[HARSH]

It has become my priviledge to have you as a amatuer/co-angler fishing partner. I am looking forward to our time on the water. I will give you my very best effort to make us competitive. My cell # is 320-267-xxxx. Feel to contact me at any time.

Please review the following:

Be on time in the morning at the designated location. That is the first consideration we will give each other.

Expect to have a good time fishing with me. You and I are now fishing partners for the day. Relax and enjoy our fishing as much as I intend to. That does not mean we won't work hard while doing so. You will be suprised how hard you will work to keep up with this old man in the boat. Hustle will be the name of the game, at least untill we put our first 50 lbs. in the boat. I like to discuss fishing, fishing, fishing and hunting related subjects. I do not care to help you solve the worlds problems, your relationship problems or problems at work. Do not cloud up my head with those subjects and try to concentrate on the fishing yourself.

The world will not end if you make a mistake in my boat. Unlike the Pope and a few of the other Pro Walleye Fisherman, you nor I am infallible. Should a mistake happen and it will, we will quickly move beyond it and continue to concentrate on the job at hand. (No matter who makes it.) I am not known for getting too excited in the boat.

Bring a positive winning attitude. Do not bring a hangover. This could be one of the best days of your life. Show up sick from being hungover or intoxicated from illegal drugs and I assure you this will not be one of the best days of your life.

Bring a WATCH. If you don't care if we get in on time, I do! Don't break my concentration by depending on me to tell you what time it is all day long. I will watch the time but you need to keep track of the time also.

Mother Nature is not a good Momma. Expect the worst from her. If you have a tendency to get seasick take dramamine ahead of time. Dress for the worst case scenario, by 9 a.m. it could be our reality. Bring good raingear, extra warm dry clothes including gloves. A life jacket is provided unless you want to bring your own. Bring any special lunch or beverages you require. I will have extra lunch and beverages also.

We will review saftey, starting and operation procedures prior to going out in the morning. I will show you how to use the radio and where emergency equipment is stowed also at that time.

During the course of the day I will show you various things I have learned to enhance our chances, your responsibility will be to keep that information confidential untill after the end of the tournament. Failure to do that could get you disqualifed. Don't put me in that position.

I am looking forward to fishing with you.

Pete Harsh/"MR. TILLER"

[Sunshine]

Thanks Pete,

You're the Man!!

It's great!!

[Seven Clams]

Pete,

Nice up front information, to the point and no gray areas. I didn't realize Am partners would dare to show up late or so hungover to ruin the day for both the pro and Am alike. I question why anyone would spend the money to enter, lodging and travel expenses only to be so drunk or hung over they can't contribute to the team. Heck it shouldn't suprise me, guys spend the big bucks to go to a exclusive fishing lodge or hunting camp and spend most of the time drinking. Which they could do somewhere else and alot less expensive. Pete your post was a eye opener for me that is for sure.

[sevenmmm]

How intense you are HARSH. No wonder my wallet is empty! :-)

[Nice]

Thats the difference between the guys that get it and those that don't. This not a vacation away from the wife and kids but a very intense JOB or way of life. Pete as well as others spend countless hours away from home teaching,talking,as well as Tour fishing. This costs large amounts of money as well,so why not make it count!

To many fishermen these days show up a day or two before the tournement and then wonder why they don't do well. Or they spend the nights at the bars,thinking they are having fun. This only cost them even more! This is a very intense game that if you really want to do well and gain everyones respect you act the part!

You really don't want to get a reputation as a poor sportsmen or even a drunk. You make yourself look like a fool as well as the tour you are fishing. It's alright to go out with a group of guys have some dinner and some drinks. The guys that put in the time are the guys that in the end, will end up doing the best on their tour.

People respect the guys that show up ready with a solid game plan, and can tell the ones that don't have a clue!

[sevenmmm]

Thats not nice. There is alot more sublety to these tournaments than just showing up earlier and pre-fishing more than other contestants.

[nice]

Ya but I don't think its very pro-like to just be another follower. So I perfer to get there and figure it out for myself. You can get all the help you want you have to catch fish that comes easier when you are there figuring things out for yourself. Anyway the guys that put the time in seem to do well or atleast better than the guys that dont. Home waters and past history are fine but things change alot.

[sevenmmm]

Well, can tell you about my experience in the New York PWT this past summer. Arrived 11 days early and pre-fished for 10 of them. Watched in amusement (thought I had a leg up on them) how most of the rest of the field came in many days later.

Caught good walleyes every day of pre-fishing and had them patterned - yet ended up in last place.

And never went out drinking either!

[nice]

Well things like that happen tells you a few things about yourself! Humbling exper. will make you a better man,or so they say. For some guys no matter how early they show up it wont matter. I'm not saying your that guy, just that some of these other guys are just that good. Always looks easy on TV then you hit the real world and find out the hard way. Life is full of lessons the ones that learn them the quickest survive the longest.

[sevenmmm]

Yep, am sure I'm not alone!

[wallytap]

Mr. Harsh: I've always had respect for you as a "pro" but now you have my utmost respect, thank you for printing what I've seen first hand myself. And when the boat is on the trailer on the last day then I'll gladly buy you a cold one.Co/Am must go above and beyond their pros expectations to earn their respect after a day of competition.I hope to draw ya someday Pete!

[bigfish1965]

Excellent replies gents. I had often worried about Pro's finding their co-anglers a necessary nuisance.It is obviously not the case.This year is a write-off for me already (work, work, work) but I am definitely going in in 2005.

[bigfish1965]

Excellent replies gents. I had often worried about Pro's finding their co-anglers a necessary nuisance.It is obviously not the case.This year is a write-off for me already (work, work, work) but I am definitely going in in 2005.

[John Crystal]

"To many fishermen these days show up a day or two before the tournement and then wonder why they don't do well."

If the pro is open to suggestion, then pre-fishing ahead is fine. If the pro is going to dictate when, where and how (and they do because it is their investment), then pre-fishing won't be worth much more than recreation. It sounds as though the AM gets in the boat for the tournament only, unless the PRO invites the AM on pre-fishing junkets. If not, then that is allot of money out of the AM's pocket to just hope he gets invited to pre-fish even 1 day.

[John Crystal]

"To many fishermen these days show up a day or two before the tournement and then wonder why they don't do well."

If the pro is open to suggestion, then pre-fishing ahead is fine. If the pro is going to dictate when, where and how (and they do because it is their investment), then pre-fishing won't be worth much more than recreation. It sounds as though the AM gets in the boat for the tournament only, unless the PRO invites the AM on pre-fishing junkets. If not, then that is allot of money out of the AM's pocket to just hope he gets invited to pre-fish even 1 day.

[G. Gray]

Pete Harsh is one of the most intense Pro anglers out there. Pete takes tournament fishing seriously, as should all Pro's. I have had the Great opportunity to team up with Pete, and have had the pleasure to pre-fish a few days with Pete. Let me tell you, there is no one, more serious about the tounament game.

Pete is the best live bait fisherman in the country, bar none, and that I have seen first hand. He has even taught this old dog, some new tricks. Pete also, has the smarts to constantly educate himself, as well as those around him, on different presentations for different bodies of waters.

When Pete told me he drafted up this Co-angler form, I thought it was the greatest thing out there, and after reading it, this is something that all tournament director's should capitalize on. Again, another Pro, has done what the director's should have done first off. I concur with Pete's thoughts on all items listed in his letter. This is a partnership day,. and so it should be treated as such.

I have had partners, young and old, male and female, and they have all been great. The oldest guy I had, his name was Charlie, and we were at Chamberlin,SD. It was cold, miserable, and I forgot, he was 82. He gave me his all and then some. He hung in there like a champ, and when it was all said and done, we had fun, caught a limit, and most of all, he caught his share. He even yelled at me, to get off my A--, and come net his fish. Not bad for an 82 yr old. I looked at that day, as a day on the water, with someone my Dad's age. At the end of the day, he thanked me, and I turned to him, and said " no, Thank you for a Great day, brought back some memories"

If any of the co-anglers, are fortunate to draw Pete Harsh ( "Mr. Tiller"), Please give him the respect he deserves, and you will Have the Best day on the water of your life!

Gary Gray

[G. Gray]

Pete Harsh is one of the most intense Pro anglers out there. Pete takes tournament fishing seriously, as should all Pro's. I have had the Great opportunity to team up with Pete, and have had the pleasure to pre-fish a few days with Pete. Let me tell you, there is no one, more serious about the tounament game.

Pete is the best live bait fisherman in the country, bar none, and that I have seen first hand. He has even taught this old dog, some new tricks. Pete also, has the smarts to constantly educate himself, as well as those around him, on different presentations for different bodies of waters.

When Pete told me he drafted up this Co-angler form, I thought it was the greatest thing out there, and after reading it, this is something that all tournament director's should capitalize on. Again, another Pro, has done what the director's should have done first off. I concur with Pete's thoughts on all items listed in his letter. This is a partnership day,. and so it should be treated as such.

I have had partners, young and old, male and female, and they have all been great. The oldest guy I had, his name was Charlie, and we were at Chamberlin,SD. It was cold, miserable, and I forgot, he was 82. He gave me his all and then some. He hung in there like a champ, and when it was all said and done, we had fun, caught a limit, and most of all, he caught his share. He even yelled at me, to get off my A--, and come net his fish. Not bad for an 82 yr old. I looked at that day, as a day on the water, with someone my Dad's age. At the end of the day, he thanked me, and I turned to him, and said " no, Thank you for a Great day, brought back some memories"

If any of the co-anglers, are fortunate to draw Pete Harsh ( "Mr. Tiller"), Please give him the respect he deserves, and you will Have the Best day on the water of your life!

Gary Gray

[Burr ND]

John, this may seem really odd, but on 2 separate occasions, I am familiar with an individual that went down to the landing during the prefishing period. He stuck his thumb out on the dock and had a pro to prefish with for the day within 10 minutes.

If you do not have a pro pre-arranged to prefish with, I wouldn't even begin to hesitate or think I HAD to bring my own boat. Obviously the best way to arrange the prefishing experience with a pro would be to line it up in advance. If you do not know a pro, start emailing or posting on this board. The biggest issue will be keeping the pro's information confidential. But if your plans have to change on short notice an you all of a sudden find yourself able to pre, AM or CO Fish, there is lots of opportunity.

[Burr ND]

John, this may seem really odd, but on 2 separate occasions, I am familiar with an individual that went down to the landing during the prefishing period. He stuck his thumb out on the dock and had a pro to prefish with for the day within 10 minutes.

If you do not have a pro pre-arranged to prefish with, I wouldn't even begin to hesitate or think I HAD to bring my own boat. Obviously the best way to arrange the prefishing experience with a pro would be to line it up in advance. If you do not know a pro, start emailing or posting on this board. The biggest issue will be keeping the pro's information confidential. But if your plans have to change on short notice an you all of a sudden find yourself able to pre, AM or CO Fish, there is lots of opportunity.

[Western Walleye Editor]

Thanks Pete - I am going to take a shot at writing something similar and fit to my personality. For someone like me that is just starting fishing some of the pro tournaments, you are a great model to learn from. I hope someday I have earned just some of the respect you deserve.

Duane Hons