earlybirds to MWC?

[MWC in or out]

Looking on the web site today looks as if they are going to get 120 early birds. This to me means I need to step up if I want to fish my home waters! I will need to fish all 3 to make sure I'm in. They are having a lottery for the remaining 70-80 spots. I know that the Il. river will get 100 plus guys that just want to fish that one, so 20-30 teams will be out of luck! Same will hold true for the Winnebago tournament. So if you really want in to the one looks like you might need to get in all 3 to make sure.

I thought it was going to be good this year,I did'nt think they would have so many early birds. I have til Friday to figure out if I should fish the whole Central or not. I dont think I want to take my chances of not getting in on my home waters!

[MWC in or out]

Looking on the web site today looks as if they are going to get 120 early birds. This to me means I need to step up if I want to fish my home waters! I will need to fish all 3 to make sure I'm in. They are having a lottery for the remaining 70-80 spots. I know that the Il. river will get 100 plus guys that just want to fish that one, so 20-30 teams will be out of luck! Same will hold true for the Winnebago tournament. So if you really want in to the one looks like you might need to get in all 3 to make sure.

I thought it was going to be good this year,I did'nt think they would have so many early birds. I have til Friday to figure out if I should fish the whole Central or not. I dont think I want to take my chances of not getting in on my home waters!

[sevenmmm]

Come on in, the water is fine. Its only fair that you struggle with the rest of us at tournaments on waters we know little about! :-)

[sevenmmm]

Come on in, the water is fine. Its only fair that you struggle with the rest of us at tournaments on waters we know little about! :-)

[stiff water]

Love the new blood, just read your rules! New stuff this year, things that wont be allowed to happen anymore! The tour guys have some input on this circuit, that has not been around for along time.

[stiff water]

Love the new blood, just read your rules! New stuff this year, things that wont be allowed to happen anymore! The tour guys have some input on this circuit, that has not been around for along time.

[fishjb]

Central entries up to 109!! WOW!!

Keep 'em coming,

JB

[McCan]

This is my 1st year on the mwc and looking forward to the challenge. Can some one tell me how the take off works. ex If I am the 20th boat team that entered, am I #20 to leave the take off or is it a draw system. How does it work, just wondering.

[mwc fishermen]

Heres how it works, 1st year if your fishing the Central and signed up as a early bird you will be put into a hat and given a boat # of 41- what ever they end up with as early birds. 1-40 is given to the teams that made the Championship last year. So if you finished last year as say #20 you would get # 20 unless others before are not fishing again. You will keep your # at every event except the challenge event if you fish that. So as of now you could get #41 or #109 or any where in between.

[mwc fishermen]

Today is the last full day to sign up as an early bird. I just read it on the web site,they will take entries on the 30th but only till noon. Monday the single event entries will be taken. Tuesday we will already be able to see the list for Sring Valley and Winnebago.

[Tourney Fan]

“This is my 1st year on the mwc and looking forward to the challenge. Can some one tell me how the take off works. ex If I am the 20th boat team that entered, am I #20 to leave the take off or is it a draw system. How does it work, just wondering.”


Usually on day one, boats are sent out in numerical order. Day 2 is a crap shoot. It’s never the same event to event or year to year. That’s because the MWC does not run the tourneys, they are run by local walleye clubs that make up or change the flights to their liking.

I have personally complained about it and was scoffed at. What the MWC has to realize is that it does matter how day 2 flights are sent out. It’s an important strategy in pre fishing to know a spot to go if you are the 125th boat out on day 2. Thinking you will go out 50th on day 2 and find out at the rules meeting you are going out 125th can blow a team's strategy right out of the water!

I hope the MWC requires a CONSISTENT flight order from event to event.

[mwc fishermen]

Tourney

When the last time you fished? All of last year they ran the boats out 1-200 and on day 2 200-1. This problem was already fixed, the new tour is much better than before! The new people in charge will listen to you, call the office and talk to Kristine yourself she is always glad to listen to the gys on tour! Treat her like you would want to be treated and she will take the good and the bad! I have talked with her on the phone and she is always open to any ideas that we may have or changes you would like to see.

[Tourney Fan]

Unless I missed something, I would not have known that by reading the official rules where flight orders a usually spelled out!

And, no. I did not fish all of the events last year. So if the problem is fixed - great!

200-1 on day 2 kinda sucks for the early birds. You'd think they would go out first on both days...???

[sevenmmm]

Have read the MWC folks are discussing a change in allowing the early birds first release both days. If that is what happens, it may be bad for some of us should there be a hot bite happening at the last hour of the second day.

Otherwise, have read that the contestants who made this years Championship will be the first of the early birds released. Beyond that, am not sure enough to comment (even though if I did and was wrong - it would get the correct answer real fast). :-)

[Tourney Fan]

Yes, whatever the case - figure it out, put it in the rules and stick to it!

Knowing the day 2 flight order is important to this angler!

[mwc fishermen]

The real and only problem with having the top 40 go out first both days is that 1) its not fair to the rest of the feild
2) There would be twice the boat following (if someone was on a good bite)
3) The early birds would'nt be fishing the same time as the guy that was boat #200.

I dont like to play favorites in any event! Everyone should have the same amount of fishing time, thats why they should always reverse the order. The advantage to being an early bird is you know from day one what your boat # will be. Plus you will be in the 1st fight on day one.

[walleyehog]

I totally agree with you "MWC Fisherman". THe only way that EVERYONE gets the exact EQUAL amount of time fishing, and that is the key phrase, "EQUAL amount of fishing time" is to totally reverse the flight order on day two. Boat 1 is first on day 1, and last on day 2. We have utilized this over the last year and have not witnessed any negative consequences. Everyone pays the EXACT same entry fee amount, whether fishing all tournaments, or just one tournament, therefore, everyone should be able to fish the EXACT same amount of time.
The championship can be run differently because the anglers do not pay the entry fee, therefore the crew running the MWC should be able to look at it from a different perspective.
Again "hats off" to the creww running the MWC. They are doing a fantastic job and have the support from the majority of the anglers participating in their circuit/events!

Jimmy Siewert

[sevenmmm]

Can't leave this alone! Here is my Opinion:

Think that all the Early Birds be released first both days, reversing their order. And of course, those who qualified for the championship being counted first and the rest of the Bird entries being assigned by the draw.

Then, all the other single entries be released After the Birds each day.

Now on the face of it seems unfair, but when you think about the sacrifice many of the Birders face in fishing water far from their home, it gives them (us) better footing against those who only sign up for one tournament, soley because it is their home water and they know it so well.

And then it would be another HUGE incentive to sign up for a whole division. And bet it wouldn't take long and there would be no single entries...

[Tourney Fan]

I actually agree 100% with you Rick. (And I'm not an Early Bird this year)

But again, since there is no official written rule that I can find, it's still anything goes as far as I'm concerned. And the MWC or the local club can roll over with any pressure put on them!

[mwc fishermen]

Rick

Sorry but I made the top 40 and would not fish the MWC if it was ran that way! Everyone should have the same amount of time on the water. Everyone else runs their big tournaments like this and so should we! The idea that I or you should be treated any different than the next guy is not the way a circuit should be run.
Guys that have not been to the Championship yet, but have fished this circuit for a number of years would'nt want to fish this circuit if things were run that way. I think that the MWC would lose more teams than they would gain by using your idea. The old days are over, the good ole boy's are not running things anymore and the #'s are coming back! People dont want to fish a tour that they feel they are not being treated equal to the other tour members!
Reading the rules this year they stress "Sportsmanship" we would'nt look good by treating 40 teams differently than the other 160!

[carrocr]

Going out in the first flight each day doesn't mean more time on the water. Just that you're first out and first in. If that's an advantage or disadvantage depends on the water and the bite.

[mwc fishermen]

I'm sorry but you would be wrong on this, but let me explain.

I'm boat #1 your boat #101 we are fishing the Il. river and both going to the dam area.

I leave at 7am and get there at 7:15
You leave at 7:31 and get ther at 7:46

Day 2 I leave at 7am and get there at 7:15 (no boats in front of me)
You leave at 7:45 and get there at 8am (139 boats in front of you) REVERSE ORDER except the top 40!

I just gained 15 plus minutes on you, is that fair to you or me?

[carrocr]

If the earlybirds get their own flight it will be just like having two flights, considering there are allready over half the field in earlybird entries. Everyone will end up waiting around the same time in one of the flights. I think you are forgetting that the boat numbers would get reversed within the flight, but the flights would not get flipped. So as of right now the top 40 from last year would be boats 1-40 day 1 and then 80-120 the second.

[walleyehog]

I still say we all pay the same amount for entry fee. Therefore, everyone should be able to fish the exact same amount of time. Again, I cannot think of any downfalls over the last year doing it this way. Fair rules, fair game time.

[what]

re-read your post!

day 1 is 1-100 and then 101-200.

Day 2 you want to split the top 40! Day 2 would be as you call it 200-101 but the top 40 goes ahead of them so boat #200 would go out in the 1st fight boat #41 and the guys with #101 would go as #139.

Boat #101 even though they are early birds would lose 40 boat places on day 2. THATS NOT FAIR TO THEM!

Top 40 would be 1-40 on day 2 with boat 200-101 going after us? That would be # 200-160.

In years past they screw up the whole thing by sending out boats 101 1st again on the second day and boat # 200 was at the end of the fights of the 1st and 2nd days! THEY LOSE TIME and I think that is wrong!

[sevenmmm]

True enough - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Kristine Houtman]

Maybe I can help a little here....

There are somethings that aren't in the rules because they are not guaranteed. They are procedures. How we flight a tournament is a procedure and not a rule. It can be different from one site to the next depending on size of harbor area, water depth, number of boats. In '03 we had some tournaments with two flights, one with three flights. We are trying to get things more "uniform" from one MWC site to another, but sometimes you just can't. Timing, for example, due to the time of year. Sometimes we launch at 7:00 and 7:30. Other times 7:30 and 8:00 because of daylight. So for those that think this has to be clearly spelled out before you sign on...I don't understand why. You sign up to fish two days. If the plan is, say, 8 hours each day....then that's what you get.

We did have some of the anglers bring forward through the Angler Advisory Panel that they would like an early bird flight that went out first both days. If Flight 1 was 1-110 on day one then 110 to 1 (reverse order) on day two. But both days first flight was early birds. I'm not convinced yet that this is the best thing to do. I do listen, however, (as one of the other posters noted above)when things are brought forward. And will seriously consider and weigh the options.

We've tried to build in quite a few benefits for being an early bird -- like being published with a 4 color photo and your sponsor names in 10,000 directories. Like installment billing. Like one-time tournament cancellation/credit option in case of emergencies. I don't think we have to manipulate the flights to create an "advantage" for teams to make that decision.

Overall, I'd say the teams that would go out last on day two (the highest ranked teams from the year before) are the classiest group of anglers I'd ever want to meet. They sure handled it well in '03. And they don't complain...they just get moving and fish. We do our best to get everybody out quickly and they appreciate that. I can't think of a tournament that takes more than 10 minutes to get 100 to 110 boats out. If a team wasn't in line when I called their number, we skipped them and they had to wait until the end of the flight. That makes everybody pay attention and line up and be ready.

Just a couple of thoughts...

p.s. One last reminder -- early bird entries are accepted until NOON Friday January 30th. No exceptions. After that any entries will be considered single tournament entries and put in the lottery (if one is needed). We do have 112 MWC Central Teams and 11 MWC East teams for a total of 123. More than half early birds for MWC Central...wow!

[Tourney Fan]

"There are somethings that aren't in the rules because they are not guaranteed. They are procedures. How we flight a tournament is a procedure and not a rule. It can be different from one site to the next depending on size of harbor area, water depth, number of boats. "

That is a bunch of mumbo jumbo!

If you don't think flight order has an effect of pre-fishing and planning a day 2 strategy, I'm sorry... that is not right.

Make it a rule.

[sevenmmm]

Oh-oh Tourney Fan, you should not be writing about mumbojumbo concerning the pennings of K. Houtman (bad karma for you buddy). This is the head rule maker and you should rather be in humblemumble mode when debating her posts.

You are now regulated to the back of the pack!

[Tourney Fan]

Mumbo Jumbo is Mumbo Jumbo! I know who Kristine is and have had this discussion in person with her.

There is no reason why the MWC can’t just say “On a full field – this is how it will be” or “100 boats….” It can be spelled out and it should be.

By the way, I also do think the MWC is doing a great job overall and runs a super tourney. I’m on board with all of the changes. I’m a guy who is not a circuit pro, but I show up at one or two of these events a year and have for a lot of years. It's guys like me who keep these events afloat. I think my input is valid and I think the question asked by the original post is valid. So far it can't be answered.

[Kristine Houtman]

Last year we flighted in a field of 200; 1-100 in that order out first and 101 to 200 out second. On day two we completely reversed and went 200 to 101 first, then 100 to 1 second.

What I was trying to say was that I was appealed to consider another flighting scenario through the Angler Advisory Panel and I have always promised that I will listen to those requests seriously. And yet -- I have not been convinced that it should be flighted any differently.

So until the new Angler Advisory Panel is formed and I give them one last chance to convince me, the flighting is most likely to be the same as last year. I stand by the decision that flighting is procedural and not rules driven...and doesn't always HAVE to be whatever it's been for "tradition" or whatever. It can be adjusted from one location to another for a myriad of reasons.

Just one more note: We're at 120 MWC Central Early Bird teams and 11 MWC East Early Birds for a total of 131. Registration will close at NOON sharp today (FRIDAY JAN 30) so there's just a couple of hours left. Fax is 952-936-9755 and the entry forms can be found on our website (maybe here too?) www.masterswalleyecircuit.com

[love them eyes guy]

Thanks Kristine

Thanks for the update.

I think we should go out 1-200 and 200-1 thats fair. Last year we fished the circuit, but not as earlybirds. We had different boat #s at every event always in the second fight. We had no advantage doing this! We also had no disadvantage because the fights we run the way they were. We made the top 40, so the system worked fine! I dont feel that I should be treated any different than the next team, or some team that signs up for 1 event. I know my boat # going into each event whether I fish 1 or all! I also take into account the time differences when I'm in the 1st and 2nd fights. I say we stick to the same flighting as last year.

I still have not seen one good reason why the top 40 should be treated different than say boat # 175.

[Juls_OH]

> "I still have not seen one good reason why the top 40 should
>be treated different than say boat # 175."

That's because there isn't one, and never will be one.

Juls

[love them eyes guy]

Thanks Juls

Hope your in down at Sping Valley, I'll see you on the water!

Gordy

[Rick Stange]

TournyFan
I think the "mumbo-jumbo" comment is a little harsh. Kristine's explanation as to why the flighting arrangments at each individual tournament are different makes perfect sense. Each of the tournament sites has different facilitys that require different planning, daylight hours are different throught the tournament season. You can't get a much simpler explantion. By the feel of your posts, it sounds as if you have some other beef with the MWC.
By the way, who are you? A name to go along with your comments would be appreciated.
Rick Stange

[Juls_OH]

We're putting in for the MWC SV event, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we make it in. Either way, we'll be there, since we are fishing the RCL.

We will be staying at the Econo Lodge again. Look us up when you get in town, if you have time. We will be there on the 21st. Looking forward to seeing you buddy!

La la la la la la la la la la la la!!!!! hehehe wink wink

Juls

[Tourney Fan]

I still don’t buy that explanation. What circumstances would alter a flight order? Daylight? Location? I don’t get it. I need a detailed explanation. You still need to send out 200 boats!

One reason I can see altering a flight order on a whim is to benefit certain team based on their boat number. OK, I know that is not true, but is a valid concern. And I will repeat MY main objection. I need to know what my flight number is so I can pre-fish and plan accordingly! I CAN’T WAIT FOR THE RULES MEETING!

Look, the guy at the top of this post is new from the East Division. Simple Question = How do you send out the boats! How are the flights handled! He just wants an answer so he can know what to expect. I answered as best as I know from years of experience fishing the MWC.

I just re-read the Official Rules. There are plenty of “Procedures” written in there, one more won’t hurt.

[love them eyes guy]

Careful Juls I dont need Rick after me! HA HA.

We could'nt get in at the lodge so we are at the Tiki down the road.I'm leaving on the 19th, I need to shake the winter off with some saugers! I'll stop by to say hi to you guys.

Gordy

[Juls_OH]

Hahaha...ok. Cool, we'll see you soon.

Juls

[love them eyes guy]

Tourney

Try the web-site after the list is put out. The tourney Directer will have it listed,I'm sure well before we get there. Hope that helps, if not call Kristine or put a post on their web-site. I have foud that when guys have questions they get the answers pretty quick on the site.

[McCan]

(Hloy molly) Glad to get that out of the way thank's kristine. That's only fare # 1 to 200 first day #200 to 1 day two. I don't want to give the guy's at the end of the day any advantage by knowing the best fish will bite the last twenty minutes.

[Neil H.]

I really don't think a half hour is going to make that much of a differents to a persons game plan.Fish turn on and off. If your lucky enough to be there when they turn on thats great,but if your not,thats fishing.If you really want more time fishing ,buy a Evinrude H.O..Walleye Central say's it best S.U.A.Fish! Neil H

[sevenmmm]

Ok Tourney Guy.

Its just that addressing the decision maker directly in such a fashion (using a public forum), isn't a good form of persuasion.

Is much better to keep the discussion and debate to the Ideas.

And I still think the Early Birds ought to take precedence over those fishing single tournaments. But its just my vote and will be happy regardless of policy.

[walleyehog]

Hey Neil,
You guys should always be the last boat out each day. I would bet you would get to any spot before the first boat anyway with that speed boat you guys run!!! See ya guys down in Illinois!!

Jimmy Siewert

[GR8WTHUNTER]

Rick, I can see why you would want the birds to go out first. You guys are signed up for all of the events and are going to be the ones chasing after the points total for the year. So why not have a good ole boys club on the circuit.....Well, I can see your point about getting the leg up on the "locals" as well.......But are you really wanting to compete and possibly win on a weighted playing field?.....
I am going to try to get into the Spring Valley event. This will be my first taste of the MWC. Spring Valley is a short 14 hour drive west for me. Does this make me one of the "locals" that you guys in the proposed good ole boys club need a leg up on? Could it be that there are some guys from the East that are going to head west, or central, to get a feel for how the MWC runs and making a decision on future events closer to home. Are there any guys fishing that signed up for one or two events that they know they can clear the time away from the regular job, but are waiting to see if the time away will be available for the third or fourth tourney? I got a better idea, lets say they send out the boats in the same order each day, but use travel distance to determine the order. The farthest away goes first and the guy that lives a block from the launch goes last. That should take the "local" advantage away. I don't know about you, but I would be ashamed to take a check if I was given special treatment like that.

[geo114]

you guy's want to talk about a unfair advantage that muscle boat that
neil is in is out of hand!I think they should release us by speed that way I get out first both days.I am sure they will make as fair as they can,see you in Illinois!
George Gahagan

[sevenmmm]

Gr8,

Well..., hard to defend my opinion in your case.

It may be that those entering single tournaments will create some ruckus over an advantage given to teams entering as Early Birds. In comparison, most Birds probably will not want this advantage and won't make any fuss at all, should such a policy not be implemented.

Just because you have to travel so far in entering a single tournament, will change my opinion. :-)