Amazing Info on GPS Mapping prices

[Sunshine]

I've been shopping around for a new GPS mapping unit and I have narrowed my search between the Lowrance 3000 and the Garmin 182. Both units appear to be in the same price range. However, I'm getting confused on the costs of the "other" must have accessories. Those of you who have gone through this before know what I'm talking about.

Okay, I spend the approximately $675-$700. Now what do I have to buy that is not included?

I think I'll need the following after a Garmin 182 purchase price of $675):

A blue map for $116.00

A hot spots map CD for $175.00 (wow 88 lakes, just came from their site and called them to verify this. This is brand new info. You get 88 lakes for the Wisconsin region)

A 32 MB Data Card for $116.00

USB Data Card Programmer for $80.00.

A Ram mounting bracket for $ 40.00

Shipping $25.00

Now my $700 investment is up to $1227. Is this right? Or am I purchasing more "toys" than what I really need?



Let's look at the Lowrance 3000 for a purchase price of $700:

MapCreate™ CD-ROM for $129.99

Hot spots maps for $719.00 (each map is $25 plus $44 for mmc) (trying to compare apples to apples with above, they offer 27 maps in my region)

64 Meg Multi Media Card for $99.99

Multi Media Card reader/programmer PC $58.95

A Ram mounting bracket for $ 40.00

Shipping $25.00

Here's a Grand total of $1736.93.

That's a $500 difference from two units that appear to have the same up front costs. I'm shocked. I'm not trying to bash any vendor nor am I trying to stir the pot. All I'm trying to do is make sure that I'm being a knowledgeable consumer. That's where you come in. Where is my logic flawed?

For those of you who are interested and are in the same buying posture as I am, I've found some interesting "deals" out there! Some vendor's offer free shipping, others free ram mounts, and one offers free hot spots CD and yet another offers a free Blue map. We all must do our research to get the best deal.

[MK]

Sunshine-
I'm in the same boat as you looking for a moderate price chartplotter. If you don't mind, I'd like to throw out one more question for any input. Many of these units advertise a built-in "base map". How thorough are these built-in maps and is it necessary to add additional maps for places like Erie and Lake Michigan?

[Sunshine]

MK,

The base maps that I've seen are poor at best. They only show the outlines of lakes with no detail what so ever. There's no way that they could be used for navagation. Do others concur?

[FreeByrd]

From what I've seen you definitely need to add the detail maps, either on a chip via download. Without adding the detail, you may as well not buy a mapping unit. I fish Erie and Western Lake Ontario. I went with the Garmin monochrome 2010 this fall. Got one of their new Bluechart chips that covered Sag Bay, Huron, Detroit River, St. Clare, Detroit River, All of Erie, Western Lake Ontartio, Niagara River, Welland Canal for $160. The Bluechart chips are basically scanned versions of official NOAA charts, so the Bluechart option is only viable for areas that have official NOAA charts. At the time I paid $1500 for the unit and $160 for the chip. Bought through West Marine. 10% off these prices plus signed up for their credit card and got 6 months same as cash. There's been several threads on buying online seems to be the way to go. Better Prices and no tax. Some places no shipping charge. I didn't need to buy anything else for where I fish. Cartridge also contains contour lines for reefs.

The best setup for you will depend mostly on WHERE you fish as far as what coverage is available. The Bluechart was very impressive to me for the water I fish. Consensus on here when this topic is discussed usually seems to be the C-Map chips have the best detail compared to the Navionics chips which I think does the Fishing Hot Spots. In the past I was not impressed with the Lowrance IMS chips, don't know about the Mapcreate sowftware.

I believe my Garmin 2010 can be interfaced with a PC to do downloads, but I don't have an interest in that at least right now. I put the chip in the unit, turn it on, and go fishing. Very Simple. I don't want the extra work/expense/time of messing with my computer.
Good Luck,
Steve

[Sunshine]

Freebyrd states that the general consensus is that C-Map chips have the best detail compared to the Navionics chips. What does this mean? Fewer contour lines? Not as accurate? How about a response from those who own one?

[jiggin]

Hey Sunshine - In your post, you stated that you get 88 lakes in Wisconsin for the Garmin unit. I was wondering if it has the entire Winnebago chain on it, including Lake Butte Des Morts and Lake Poygan?

Thank you

[Sunshine]

Yes, check out:
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/fhsReg.html#reg7

[Mike Michalak]

Maybe I can be of some help here guys. First, I need to clear something up. When it comes to the comparisons between C-Map and FHS, it's all the same base data. It's how the software manipulates it that any differences come in, like zoom range, etc. The FHS data contains all the fishing information, which no other program offers.

Beware of maps that offer "shoreline detail," because that's exactly what you'll get. A lake outline with a nice chunk of blue in the middle. In other words, no contours. NOAA and the USGS only have contours available on those navigable waterways on the continent, like those connected to the Great Lakes or the St. Lawrence Seaway, the deltas, etc.

Now, as all this applies to the hardware...we (FHS) license our digital data to both Navionics (Lowrance/Raymarine) and Garmin. The final output by these companies ends up as HotMaps and FHS MapSource, respectively. The Garmin 182 that began this post comes with a 32 nautical mile basemap. And, the conclusion of not having specific data contained on it, as it applies to the water, is correct.

Options include the BlueChart marine cartography and the FHS MapSource CD's. I am aware of a promotion right now and the Garmin site should have details shortly. As for the programs themselves, you purchase the CD and it entitles you to one "free" unlock for the region of you choice. Buying the cartridge is a one-time cost because it includes what you're after right out of the box. If, in using the CD, you decide to fish in another region, you'd need to purchase another unlock and install it. This is industry standard as it applies to mapping.

Keep in mind fellas, this is new technology and we're thrilled to be a part of it. We're constantly adding titles, some in digital form well in advance of going to print. There will be new delivery methods in the near future and, as with anything dealing with computers, prices will come down.

Hope this addresses some of the questions. To pinpoint specific info, I encourage you to email sales@garmin.com. They're very good about getting back to people. Good luck on the water!

[FreeByrd]

Mike,
As mentioned in my post above, I have the Garmin 2010 with the Bluechart chip for Erie. It has contours for the areas I fish (western, central basins).
Couple of questions:

What additional info would be available for Western Lake Erie from FHS compared to the Bluechart chip I have?

If there is more / better detail available by adding the FHS info, I may be interested in that too since the unit will take two cartridges at once. Is the FHS info available on a chip I can buy, insert in the unit, and go fishing - or is the only way to get the FHS info via downloads from the computer?

Thanks for the info.
Steve Carlson
steve199132@yahoo.com

[Mike Michalak]

Steve,

The info should be available on a cartridge for the unit. We have some tighter contours and the fishing info for Erie, plus updated nav info and plotted GPS waypoints.

[FreeByrd]

Mike,
Thanks for the additional info. I'm headed back to the Cleveland show tonight so maybe I'll be able to see a demo there. No need to reply back.
Thanks
Steve

[Sunshine]

Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to clarify some of the issues. It's impressive to see you monitoring our thread and responding so quickly. Your input means a lot to us.

I was definitely surprised to see all the additional lake maps for my region. Keep up the great work!

[jiggin]

Mike - If I were to purchase the FHS cd software and in the future there were more lakes added to a certain region, how would I go about upgrading to get this additional info. Would I have to buy the cd all over again?

Thank you

[Mike Michalak]

That's a question for Garmin to answer, since it's their product.

[Jeff Berg]

Sunshine,

The Lowrance 3000MT comes with the following: MapCreate™ CD-ROM, 8Mb MMC Card and the MMC Reader/Programmer. So you don't have to buy them seperately.

The FHS maps are $25 and you don't have to buy the MMC cards from FHS as you can put about 10 FHS on a 8Mb card and they can be reused. Buying a 64Mb MMC would hold all your maps without having to re-program the card as you move to different lakes.

-Jeff

[Stormsearch]

Sunshine,

I think the Chip reader tools come part of the GPS package along with both units, at least the 3000MT.

I just bought a 3000MT through Three River's Marine ($639). It came with the MapCreate software, Antenna, Chip Reader, and 8Meg Card. Ram mount is $40. I haven't tried the MapCreate software on the water yet, but bought an extra antenna for the truck. The road detail is pretty good. I am buying a 32Meg chip ($69) because 16Meg is more than enough and is only $20 more. For another $30, the 64Meg might be worth it. Not including Navionics chips, my total is $760 including shipping.

Have any questions, let us know. Good luck.

[lassig]

All,

Paying $50, $60, $80 for MMC cards is not necessary. Lowrance reccomends using Sandisk MMC cards. I just bought a 32Mb Sandisk MMC cards for $29 ($6 shipping). I bought it over the web from www.aaxes.com. Just checked the web site and 32Mb are $29 and 64Mb are $52. I have used the Sandisk card with the mapcreate CD and my X15 and it works great. Just thought I would pass this along so everyone can save a few bucks.

[PKW]

I must be doing something wrong! Should I be able to read "from" the MMC to my PC? I have just started to learn and it's all "GreeK" to me. Also, Map-Create CD does not show Eastern shore of Detroit River. Do I need some more map Stuff?

[Hutch]

Mr. Michalak, I have another question to add to this. Does F.H.S. have a mapp for my x-15 that shows the shipping channel or what the locals call the TRENCH of the central basin of Lake Eire??? Thanks Much, Hutch

[Mike Michalak]

Hutch,

We have a BRAND NEW map of Erie's central basin and the accompanying data has already been sent off to Navionics. This is where Lowrance gets all their map info. From there, I don't know that they've done anything with it yet. You may want to check their site (www.navionics.com) under the HotMaps section to see if it's available.

For more information, please contact either Navionics or Lowrance.

[Mike Michalak]

Save up all the questions you have...FHS will host the chat on Wednesday, February 6th!

We'll certainly address the issues raised here, talk about what's new for 2002 and what's ahead for next year already. There's a lot going on, so join us, 2/6 at 7:00 CST, thanks!

[Sunshine]

Stormsearch,

Does Three River's Marine have a web site? A tried a search and could not find them.

[bob oh]

Mike I have looked at the Lake Erie Western BAsin reef detail on the BlueCharts, how does the reef detail on your maps compare??

[Sunshine]

For those of you still following this thread, I have another question. How important do you really think the pixel count is? I can see the real advantage for sonars but is more better when it comes to GPS? Does it effect things when you zoom in?

[Jim Ordway]

Good question, I am curious about that as well. To add another question, The GM 2400 is WAAS enables but the GM 3000 is not. The X15 and X16 are not WAAS either. I hate to buy new stuff and not have the latest in technology and the added accuracy of WAAS. So Sunshine, is WAAS an issue for you?

[Mike Michalak]

Bob,

Not having seen the Erie BlueChart, I hesitate to comment. But, our reef map detail is in one-foot contours. I don't think they've gotten to this one yet, however. Keep an eye on their site for updates.

[Sunshine]

Yes Jim,

WAAS is important to me. If I'm spending this kind of money I want the best and latest technology. I've heard a couple of different stories concerning WAAS that I will share with you.

1. Lowarance will have a software update soon that will include WAAS.

2. I've heard that WAAS doesn't always work in the Mid-west.

3. Some people have claimed that they have not seen a remarkable difference when using WAAS.

[Mike Michalak]

Excellent question. My feeling is, the higher the quality (pixels), the higher the resolution at both ends of the zoom range. When I get in close, usually under 1/2-mile, I want to be able to read the information on the screen at a glance, not have to sit and study it. This comes in especially handy when, under power, you have to refer to the unit for position and see necessary structure, buoys, channels, etc.

As with any good sonar unit, the tighter the display, the more time you spend actually fishing, not goofing with the electronics.