CO-ANGLER QUESTION

[FLW 1ST TIMER]

I have fished the PWT as a co-angler in the past, in the co-angler seminar they suggested we pay the pro $40 a day for bait, gas, ect. Some pros would take it, some wouldn't! I'm fishing my first FLW event in Red Wing as a co-angler, what is the common practice for the co-angler in these events? Sure will be nice to fish for cash instead of a cooler full of donated junk!

[Juls_OH]

It's the same for the FLW's. The director "suggests" it at the rules meeting too.

As you have experienced in the PWT...some pros will take it and other won't.

Juls

[Mkomo_unlogged]

Yep, I feeshd my first flw league last week. Had a fab time. I really lucked out with a great angler. Knowledgeable, funny (not crotch-a-dee), just a gerat time.

I was planning on $40 to $50 bucks for fuel, directions and menos. (Menos cost $18 alone). He put me on feesh, got me to 12th place, so a premium, I figured was in order. I had no problem puttin out the ska-rone.

And guess what, he said it was too much. So we adjusted accordingly. And it was a win/win situation.

Plus with sonny you get a tournament and a show! (Buck, buck, like a cheecken!)

[Shep_Unloggable]

Only problem I have is that on the Great Lakes, amongst others, you need a Captain's license to guide. If you don't have that, I have heard that the CG can, and will, fine you for accepting any compensation, if you are caught. Even between friends!

I know one pro who took out someone prefishing last year. They insisted on giving the pro some money, throughout the day. The pro kept declining. Lucky, because the guy was a CG undercover. I have been pitching in for gas in all the RCL/FLW's I've been in. But I think it is probably incorrect for the FLW to adviset this be done at Great Lakes events.

[Lee Brown]

Are you saying if a buddy and I are out fishing on the great lakes and he gives me some money at the end of the day to help cover bait and gas that thats against the law? I think where the grey area would come in is if the amount you give the boater exceeds your share of the boat costs for that day, then the pro would be profiting and I could see where that would be against the law.

[Shep_Unloggable]

That is what we have been told in the Green Bay area. Seems a bit extreme to me, too.

[Juls_OH]

If you slide it in his coat pocket without him seeing it, they can't say he accepted it. He can find it "later".;)

Juls

[FreeByrd]

>Only problem I have is that on the Great Lakes, amongst
>others, you need a Captain's license to guide. If you don't
>have that, I have heard that the CG can, and will, fine you
>for accepting any compensation, if you are caught. Even
>between friends!
>
>I know one pro who took out someone prefishing last year. They
>insisted on giving the pro some money, throughout the day. The
>pro kept declining. Lucky, because the guy was a CG
>undercover. I have been pitching in for gas in all the
>RCL/FLW's I've been in. But I think it is probably incorrect
>for the FLW to adviset this be done at Great Lakes events.

"Sharing of expenses" has been ruled an acceptable practice as it pertains to the requirements that a person be a Licensed Captain to take "Passengers for Hire." It was a controversial issue for many years - being "illegal" for friends to pitch in to cover expenses such as gas, bait, etc. for a fishing trip. There have been unlicensed Pros busted in the past for charging for a prefishing trip - essentially a "charter" / guided trip - they were charging several hundred dollars - not the $40 being talked about here for expenses. Perhaps the situation last year referenced above was a more significant amount of money beyond "sharing of expenses." This is an issue on the Great Lakes and other bodies of water considered "Navigable" and under the regulations of the Coast Guard. There are some Pros in the FLW and PWT that ARE licensed Captain's.

[GF]

This was covered before as stated you can share expenses.
The ones they look for ARE a fews years back are the guides/inland waters, that would give a class on land on the techniques of fishing and charge the customer, $150 to $200 for a class of say 2 then after a 1/2 class would say want to go practice what we learned. Now that is exactly the way some of them got away with it.
Sharing expenses is just that.

[Lee Brown]

I remember when the pwt super pro came to Lake Stockton it was advertised that you could prefish with a pro, there was a number to call and they basically told you to show up at the dock and you were to pay the pro $100.00. I still thought that was a steal so I went for it, as it turned out my pro wouldn't take the money but i can see where that would get you in trouble on the great lakes. I don't see that as being the same thing as the flw is just suggesting that you help share boat expenses.

[Lee Brown]

I remember when the pwt super pro came to Lake Stockton it was advertised that you could prefish with a pro, there was a number to call and they basically told you to show up at the dock and you were to pay the pro $100.00. I still thought that was a steal so I went for it, as it turned out my pro wouldn't take the money but i can see where that would get you in trouble on the great lakes. I don't see that as being the same thing as the flw is just suggesting that you help share boat expenses.

[reelman1]

A couple of years ago in Wisconsin the CG busted a bunch of guys in Two Rivers for cost sharing. The way I understand it the CG went on a web-site and befriended some of the guys that regularlly fishe Lake Michigan and some of them invited him along. He asked what it would cost and they said something to the tune of "bring the drinks and help out with the gas" After the trip the undercover CG cited them for running a charter without a captains liscence.

[reelman1]

A couple of years ago in Wisconsin the CG busted a bunch of guys in Two Rivers for cost sharing. The way I understand it the CG went on a web-site and befriended some of the guys that regularlly fishe Lake Michigan and some of them invited him along. He asked what it would cost and they said something to the tune of "bring the drinks and help out with the gas" After the trip the undercover CG cited them for running a charter without a captains liscence.

[hgmeyer]

Sharing of expenses is specifically exempted from the concept of "chartering".

[hgmeyer]

Sharing of expenses is specifically exempted from the concept of "chartering".

[bob oh]

I think your example is probably urban legend. Sharing of expenses has been ruled acceptable. CG is not trying to bust fishermen who are really sharing expenses, but they frown on someone who takes a lot of friends fishing for a couple hundred a pop :-)

rod bender bob

[bob oh]

I think your example is probably urban legend. Sharing of expenses has been ruled acceptable. CG is not trying to bust fishermen who are really sharing expenses, but they frown on someone who takes a lot of friends fishing for a couple hundred a pop :-)

rod bender bob

[Shep_Unloggable]

Juls,

Just an FYI. I always put my gas/bait money in the glove box in the boat, or the console of the tow vehicle, to be found later. I would have felt uncomfortable just sticking out the money, and saying, "Here".

[Shep_Unloggable]

Juls,

Just an FYI. I always put my gas/bait money in the glove box in the boat, or the console of the tow vehicle, to be found later. I would have felt uncomfortable just sticking out the money, and saying, "Here".

[fireballer-ul]

FYI the Mississippi at Redwing is subject to the same Coast Guard regulations regarding fishing for hire.

[Juls_OH]

No one in the FLW tournament is fishing as a guide or "for hire", so this is not an issue for the Coast Guard to be concerned about.

Asking the Co's to help out is suggested, it is NOT a requirement in the FLW.

Some Co's offer, and some don't. Some Pros accept it, and some don't.

Juls

[TYEEE]

Maybe not for hire but they are FULLY responsible for my safety! Hence, on Federal Waters the coast guard becomes the governing agency. If I were to "pay", "contribute" or "offer" money in exchange for services, to someone that does not have a guide AND captains license, that would be illegal. That boat owner would be taking a huge risk by accepting monies. Therefore the tournament director should not be recomending that co anglers "offer monies to offset costs". Friends offering friends money is one thing but a co angler in a contest should NOT be expected to contribute ANYTHING. If that were the case he should be expecting to share in the rewards as he already paid for his right to participate! I'm no lawyer and this is a can of worms that I don't want to open.
Good Luck
Tyee

[Doc_wi]

OMG, Tyee we agree again. Didn't have an opinion one way or the other until last week. A friend from Milwaukee who stayed at my house during the PWT, fished as an amateur. He willingly paid $40 each day after paying $450 to enter the event. Day two, his pro spent the first half the day at the Winneconne bridge, never put the boat on plane, then took one ride to the 41 bridge, fished for a short time and returned to end the day in Winneconne. Now it's not an issue of that pro's decision to take the $40, or fish where he fished, or my friends head shaking wonderment, but of the gray area that exists between some do, some don't, some will, some won't, Cg this, CG that, etc etc. I think that what tyee said may be paramount and the fuel for this question. Does each pro angler carry enough insurance, are they responsable for their partner and where do liabilities start and end. Does that have an effect on federal waters?

From what I got in a direct conversation with the LAST person from the coast guard in charge was that in a two friends going fishing situation, sharing gas and bait costs would not be considered guiding or fishing for hire. If one were to accept monies greater then actual cost it MAY push the edge of the envelope, depending on the enforcing officer, the amount or value received and the frequency. I asked this due to my former work as a guide and to be clear that I could accept gas money from people I fish with without a problem. I was told yes, as described.

[TYEEE]

OMG THATS SCARRY!! we need to hit the water and do some camera work! Can you imagine the conversations we could have...If we don't make money selling discs we could definately submit it to Americas funiest videos. What a reality show! Tune in next week to see who would throw who out of the boat!
Good Luck
Tyee

[bob oh]

You're wrong Tyeee -- you can "contribute" a resonable amount of money to the boat owner for gas, bait, food etc. and the boat owner is not considered a guide or charter. I think the tourney folks should forget about "suggesting" an amount, the co-angler should decide that for themselves, but it has been ruled time and time again that they can throw in money for expenses. By the way, all boat operators are responsible for their passengers just like all auto operators.

rod bender bob

[hgmeyer]

I would say that a "baseline" of $40 for now is appropriate. That could/should be adjusted by you for several factors.... You only make a short run to a couple of spots... 10-15 miles max No trolling... jig with minnows... you finish out of the money.... $30 would be a reasonable figure.... You run 30 miles one way to fish... you troll and lose a few baits/harnesses... you catch fish... you finish in the $... $50...

Remember, also, where you are fishing and with whom... FLW League is primarily guys who are doing this on the side... Their risk/reward is smaller than on the pro circuits... So, the economics are "closer to the bone" for most boaters. The FLW Tour pays Cos in cash and it is structured so that Cos money is funding that sides prize money. In the PWT Co money is funding pro prizes so I would not be as generous... just my thoughts...

[TomatoTomoto]

Since everyone is dead set these days on pointing out the differences between the PWT and the FLW rather than the common spirit they share. I would encourage you to continue to show your support for pointing out how different they are. If it's customary for the co's to help the pro's with daily cash tokens of appreciation on the PWT Circuit, than by all means this practice should NOT be followed on the FLW circuit. After all, we don't want them to appear similar in any way.....

[Or Tomatoe]

Man, do I hear THUNDER rolling in? Tyee and Doc agreeing on one thing is earth shattering news. Agreeing on two things, in the same week is unheard of!