Mike Michalak: clarification on scaning

[RandyG]

If I buy the map do I have the right to scan it in to my system?

The goal is to use my laptop, GPS, and your map to visually see my location on the laptop and hopefully record notes at way points I choose to define.


Thanks,

Randy

[Mike Michalak]

You wrote:
If I buy the map do I have the right to scan it in to my system?
The goal is to use my laptop, GPS, and your map to visually see my location on the laptop and hopefully record notes at way points I choose to define.

Randy...

Purchasing one of our maps, or any copyrighted product, does not give you the right to do anything with it beyond its intended use. Look at what happened to Napster. Same thing here. We don't stay in business long if everyone is copying our maps, scanning, digitizing, whatever.

The map data is a tool for you to use and we license it to various companies to make that possible. That way, it's loaded into your computer. We've even created a CD-ROM for it to make it possible to plot GPS waypoints for transfer to your electronics.

We take all this seriously too, monitoring more than 25 message boards on a daily basis, scanning the Internet and print publications for improper reproductions of our maps and so on. That's why I extended the caution, because we watch. It takes a lot to do one of our maps, and anything we make from them is poured right back into the development, so you can see we work hard to guard the only thing we produce. Wouldn't you?

[Lund_Dude]

First and foremost let me say that I believe that it is wrong to misappropriate the intellectual property of others. This includes use in non-profits as well (copying CD's, software, maps for firends).

With that said, I beieve that it is within the bounds of the fair use doctrine to photocopy or digitize these maps FOR YOUR OWN USE. I see it as perfectly legal and morally correct to photocopy or scan the maps providing you do not share the copies and retain possesion of the original. It is always a good idea to have a backup. This is the point of the fair use doctrine that would allow you to duplicate a music CD providing you retain both the original and the copy with only one used at a time. I have bought maps and scanned/printed them and used the copies in the boat to avoid ruining my good original.

It is clearly wrong to scan the maps and forward them to friends to avoid paying for multiple copies.

[Hawgeye]

I understand that as being correct Lund_Dude. Similiar to what you stated regarding software, as long as you are the sole user, you are allowed to make copies for your own use. That being said, it is unlawful to own two computers and load the software on both computers which can both be used. If you want to use the software on a different computer, you, by law, are to uninstall the version from the other computer...

[livebait]

Mike, please think about contacting Mike Reily (www.mikesmaps.com)regarding his gps maps for some of the lakes in South dakota. He has yet to put them on cd for any products to be able to download, and I for one would love it if someone would(perhaps the two of you could work on this as a partnership? he already has the info on a lot of great lakes and the river)
Please let me know what you decide

email is Jewel375@home.com

[Mike Michalak]

Okay, I don't want to get into a situation here but, no where on the planet is it written where the product(s) you purchase give you the right to use them beyond their intent when a copyright is registered.

If you believe that, you're wrong and there is a ton of case law out there to back it up.

Now, I can tell you this. Instead of circumventing the system and duplicating federally protected data in software developed to do just that, why not go to the source first and ask? If such requests are made in writing, or via email with a valid electronic signature, permission to duplicate the maps, FOR PERSONAL USE, is most often granted. I know because those requests come directly to me.

Guys, we have a handful of people here who make their collective livings off these things. If the data were in the public domain, then knock your socks off and copy it to your heart's content. But with private sector products it's a different story. Every time something is copied, we lose. The more we lose the less development there is. And that goes on until we go out of business.

So, having said all that...the answer is simple. Ask permission, it's that easy. You, as the user are being above board in making the request, we have it on file and, gee whiz, it's still free. The only winner is you, but that's called customer service, isn't it? If it's abused, it's just like posting nasty-grams here on WC...the program is dust.

I appreciate the candor and feedback here. We're hosting the chat on Feb 6th and can certainly continue the topic if you'd like or you can email me directly.

[Lund_Dude]

Mike:

Thank you for sharing your opinions with me. You make a fine product and I own a box full of your maps and a couple e-maps. I will continue to purchase them in the future. I want to be clear in that my copying has no net effect on the sales volume of your product. I make my living in IP and understand the importance of protecting your interests. In Federal case law, the standard of burden would be to show that copying of the material resulted in lost sales. Therefore any copying for your own personal use could not be construed as a loss. In fact, I am more willing to buy a map if I can be sure that it won't be ruined or lost in the boat.

[Hawgeye]

I too appreciate the response. I personally use the Hotspots maps and appreciate the product. I have never copied a map and ever given it to anyone. I too respect the people that deserve to make money on a product should be those within the network of a distributed product.

I often make a photocopy of lake maps while fishing (downloaded maps from the Minnesota DNR web site) so I can write all over it. It is only used for me to take notes on so I don't wreck the one I purchased. Actually, after making the notes and transfering them to a file source, I dispose of the wrickled, water spotted, scribled on copy that I downloaded as a free map. I was only trying to make the point that as long as the company loses no money by it, is it really an issue and even better yet unlawful? I respect your comments Mike and will gladly call and ask for permission should the issue ever arise.

[Mike Michalak]

Thanks guys! This is what, in my opinion, visitors to this site can expect here. Where else are you going to find varying opinions of this sort, yet when all is said and done, there's a mutual respect and understanding of everyone's position.

This is a win-win situation. We, as a manufacturer have a position and you, as consumers certainly do. When we meet in the middle and can walk away learning something, that's progress. I sincerely appreciate your comments, the time taken to respond to these postings and most of all for being one of our customers. We'll never take that for granted.

[RandyG]

At the end of this message is Section 107 from the US Copyright Law.
It clearly states that it is perfectly legal to reproduce copyrighted material for a variety of reasons such as Lake "research".

Having said that, I don't want to get into a "tit for tat" discussion
on the legal issues which neither of us is probably qualified to defend!

What I want to do is fish and have fun doing it. In addition, I don't want to put anyone out of a job or business. Further, I don't
intend to break any laws.

I like your map product and I own a bunch. I now want to take a different approach to my fishing and that requires digital maps.
The problem is: your CD's have more than I need and often don't have what I want which is available on your paper maps. Given todays technology I know you could be more flexible in your sales and distribution, the bottom line is that if I can Scan I can get what I need.

You offer 30 paper maps and 10 digital maps for Michigan. How do I
accomplish my goal given you don't offer a total solution for my needs? SCANNING?? The problem gets compounded when I go to another
state on vacation or whatever!!

If you care, how do you address my needs as a current customer.

In addition to monitoring us to make sure we honor your copyrights why
don't you ask us what we would like to have and help us get it???

I would be happy to share my thoughts, if your interested email me your phone number, an appropriate time and we will talk.

Thanks, Randy randygardner@chartermi.net


§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.