View Full Version : FLW Team
Since the FLW, put it out on the table, "the team concept" during the championship, the fans and the future FLW fishermen have a right to know how it works.
Personally, I was introduced to the FLW walleye team format while pursuing a shot at the FLW. Armed with the gear, a sponser to pay the expenses, and tackle and techniques that catch walleye when no one else could, I felt I was ready to see how I could do against the best. After contacting someone I knew, that has fish the FLW for years, his initial response was "Yea, you can join our team". Being another shirt, weighing fish while helping others win, was not for me. A person, individual, winning against the "teams" would be poor.
A few questions for the fans; how many fishermen are in the teams? Is there a team leader?
How is the prize money distributed to the team members? Is it equal across the board? Does the winner get more?
Are the Co-anglers' part of the teams? Do the Co's pre-fish for the teams?
How do you join a team?
Jayman
02-13-2008, 10:45 AM
Define team.......Good luck with that.
Lots of teams, and every "team" is different. Essentially it's the sharing of information at one level or another. Others just choose to invest higher stakes in the "team". Some.....believe it or not, still fish "alone". It doesn't mean that they don't talk to friends.
If Player X choose to work alone and players Y and Z work as a team. and they all go out to dinner and share stories and have FUN (god forbid people do that when tourney fishing is so serious).
Well, could one might call all three players a "team"? Or is it two teams?
To be the best and be in the zone and have the utmost confidence, one cannot be worrying about teams, if you are, you've already lost.
Good Luck
FLW Co
02-13-2008, 11:52 AM
The teams give an advantage but not as much as you think. The top guys will still be the top guys if teams were not allowed and yes teams have local people to help the out but that can screw a team up more than it helps. Dustin Kjelden won the FLW championship with no team or locals. Pete Harsh does not work as a team too much and won Devils. Most tournaments are won with game day decisions that these guys make them selves, not the team.
Tempted
02-13-2008, 12:15 PM
I am totally against the team aspect but I dont think there is a way to patrol it or control it. Maybe do away with the prefishing.... I dont know the answer. But even then someone will find a way around that too. Even fishing the local Michigan tournaments I almost gave into the team theory but decided against it. I decided I would continue to go it alone and IF and When I ever win it will mean so much more to me than if I had joined forces with 6 or 8 other Boats. A believe a major tournament can be won without participating as a team, it will just take longer and be alot more rewarding to the individual.
Walleye1234
02-13-2008, 01:36 PM
Jules,
FYI Pete was on a team last year at Devils lake
Team member
02-13-2008, 02:09 PM
Teams fishing tournaments is as old as tournament fishing itself. I know people who were sharing info and winnings as far back as 1991 on the PWT. It has been common at all levels for many years. I was sharing winnings on a team at the first RCL championship at Green Bay, and it wasn't my first team so it isn't limited to the FLW.
It is part of the landscape of tournament fishing and has been since the beginning basically. And it is here to stay so it's too bad if you are disillusioned about it.
(By the way there is no santa clause or Easter bunny either).
flw co too
02-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Im not saying that it is impossible to "run into" the winning fish. But going in alone puts you at an extreme disadvantage right out of the gate. Kjelden is a great fisherman who had a great year. Not sure if he was teamed up with anyone or not but I know that if he had local help he wouldnt advertise it for you to know.
cjbrown...
02-13-2008, 03:28 PM
I personally see nothing wrong with sharing info as long as it is not done on the water on tourney day. You can recieve all the info in the world. But, you still gotta make it work for you on tourney day.
K Gonefishin
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Exactly what cjbrown said.
Wondering
02-13-2008, 04:19 PM
Here's a question I have. I'm looking to fish as a co-angler this summer and would like to pre-fish as many chances as I can get. I am local to the area of the tournament. Is it possible that I might pre-fish with someone only to find out that others don't want to fish with me because of who I have already fished with? Or am I just thinking too much into this "Team" thing?
erieeyes
02-13-2008, 04:23 PM
cant beat them join them...dont wanna join a team dont complain it doesnt help there is no way to stop networking... im in it alone the only reson i am,is thats i how i do every thing.i think if i win i will be alot happier knowing i did by myself..."teams" have sponser they have to please. this doesnt mean the loan duck cant go in and win it too we just have to work harder...
If it's just a matter of chances to fish, then you can probably set it up to prefish with the same pro for the 4-5 days prior, rather than having to find a new one each day.
Most pros would welcome that, rather than find you fishing with a bunch of different people for the week.
Reason being, they wouldn't have to sit and wonder what information of their's you are giving away (I'm not saying that you would, but it would cross one's mind).
Or, since you are the local, and you give THEM the info, they would then wonder how many other people you are giving the same info to.
It would be best to try and fish more days with the same pro than to find several to fish with.
It's less stress on all involved. :)
Just my opinion...
Juls
Team Guy
02-13-2008, 06:04 PM
I fish the FLW with a few close friends that I guess you could call a team. We do not share winnings but we do share information(never on the water during the tourney), but more importantly we share our friendship. For us friendship and trust comes first, sharing information is a natural outgrowth of that relationship.
I know that some teams are very structured and are held together as a near business operation with shared winnings etc but most I would say are better explained as a few friends that happen to fish together.
lucky dog
02-13-2008, 06:58 PM
CJbrown is right on. I have fished major circuits since 1997 and I have been fortuniate to have worked with some of the best fisherman in the game. I knew all of their spots and techniques and I'll bet you've never hear of me! LOL. It is still an individual sport. If you can "catch fish when no one else could" you should do fine, but remember, there is a difference between being a good fisherman and being a good tournament fisherman!
KLN2 ul
02-13-2008, 08:17 PM
Any answers to the following questions?
How many fishermen are in the teams? Is there a team leader?
How is the prize money distributed to the team members? Is it equal across the board? Does the winner get more?
Are the Co-anglers' part of the teams? Do the Co's pre-fish for the teams?
How do you join a team?
Tempted
02-13-2008, 09:36 PM
>How is the prize money distributed to the team members? Is it
>equal across the board? Does the winner get more
Then What does the winner shell out 1099 forms to every body he pays or does he eat the taxes on the full amount Thats enough to keep me fishing alone :horsepoop:
>If it's just a matter of chances to fish, then you can
>probably set it up to prefish with the same pro for the 4-5
>days prior, rather than having to find a new one each day.
>
>Most pros would welcome that, rather than find you fishing
>with a bunch of different people for the week.
>
>Reason being, they wouldn't have to sit and wonder what
>information of their's you are giving away (I'm not saying
>that you would, but it would cross one's mind).
>
>Or, since you are the local, and you give THEM the info, they
>would then wonder how many other people you are giving the
>same info to.
>
>It would be best to try and fish more days with the same pro
>than to find several to fish with.
>
>It's less stress on all involved. :)
>
>Just my opinion...
>
>
>Juls
Couldn't have said it better myself Juls. You really don't want to fish with people from different teams during prefish at the same tournament. But realize, that does not mean you will have to fish with the same pro during the whole prefish period - just limit the people you fish with to members of the same team. Have one of them line you up for the whole prefish period.
I'll use this example. I fished with a friend during prefish for 2 days, and one of his teammates for 2 more days. Then the final day I got in a boat with another friend of mine - who is on a different team.
I had things I wanted to say, but couldn't because they were things related to what we were doing, but learned while fishing with the other team. And that was one of my best friends - I couldn't help one of my best friends!
That was the last time I fished with more than one team at a single tournament.
The other statement I'll make - if I were a NFL player, I would not play the game without a helmet - that would be just plain crazy. Helmets are legal - they help you perform better cuz your not knocking your head.
Well, if you fishing a tournament, and teams are legal - you will improve your odds of success, by working with teammates. It's a competition, in competitions you are supposed to utilize every legal method available to you to win. It's part of the game. I would never think any less of an angler for having teammates.
If it were NASCAR, you would be expected to try some things that are not legal from time to time.
I don't know if I would go quite a far as Juls to secure a teammate for life! :cheers:
>Then What does the winner shell out 1099 forms to every body
>he pays or does he eat the taxes on the full amount Thats
>enough to keep me fishing alone :horsepoop:
LOL, stop and think about it. If you share some of your winnings, but keep the majority of it yourself - at the end of the year, you WANT to be the one writing checks, not receiving them. It's a math thing. There should be a great big smile on your face as you hand it out.
Tempted
02-14-2008, 05:48 AM
LOL ya its a math thing if you win say 50,000 you share 20,000 and dont give those people 1099's you are responsible for the taxes on the full 50.000. 38% of 20,000 is 7,600 so now your share is only 22,400. I would rather be on the receiving end as long as I dont get a 1099 come tax time.
Fish_on
02-14-2008, 07:39 AM
Many of the teams have contracts, etc. Yes a 1099 is usually a part of it. If you want to cheat on your taxes that's one thing, but don't expect your tournament partners to help you. :)
The answers to all those questions that were asked about teams is: It Depends. Teams have evolved over the years and some trends have developed in the way they are run with regard to team numbers, winnings sharing, some have co-anglers some do not, leadership, etc. etc, etc. But bascially the teams themselves set the rules so they are not all the same.
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 10:18 AM
Had a feeling it was more elaborate than just networking. Standing around the boat that's sitting on the trailer, sharing information from the days fishing.
I'm not against an elaborate team concept in walleye fishing. The purpose of this post was to imform future FLW anglers and fans of the playing field.
Repeating an earlier post, statistically, I could not compete against these odds, fishing against teams. Plus, my goal, when I was ready to compete at this level, was to see what I could do against the best, one on one. I'm confident I would have done well, but I'll never know.
I wonder if the "team concept" was in Forrest's vision when he created the FLW Walleye? I'll have to e-amil him and ask.
Fish_on
02-14-2008, 10:32 AM
I'm pretty sure Forrest had little to no direct influence and little knowledge of the beginning of the FLW. It's Irwin Jacob's baby.
Fish_on
02-14-2008, 12:01 PM
I am surprised to hear you say that. I know of a lot of teams that split winnings. In fact I thought most all of them do.
flw co too
02-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Only two teams that work that way huh? Juls, do you honestly think someone would come up to you and say "sure hope me and my teamates do good this time so we can split all the money". these agreements are between the teammates and lawyers. not something up for public record. Besides how they split the money doesnt concern anyone but them. However the networking of info with 3-4 guys puts anyone not fishing on a team at a handicap, case closed.
wannabe
02-14-2008, 12:22 PM
If you have the financial backing to support your competitive fishing, the equipment to do it properly, and the self proclaimed knowledge to "catch fish when others couldn't". You would have to be a fool to not pursue the brass ring that hangs there for your taking.. On the other hand, if we stay on the dock and merely daydream about our abilities then it cuts way down on the risk of failing..Jump in and prove yourself.....
Now you have lawyers involved? LOL
Um...ok.
You're right, it's no one's business.
Signing off this subject now.
Juls
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 01:11 PM
As I stated before, I have no intention of fishing the FLW Walleye. I have other goals. Although, a couple of years ago, it was tough, explaining to the sponsor about the disadvantage I would have fishing against FLW teams. Not an excuse, just reality.
This discussion is for the up-and-coming walleye fishermen, wanting to take a shot at the FLW, and the fans. They have a right to know what they will be up against and whats going on.
One thing I have realized about the team format, is that less competative fishermen get to hang around a few years longer, in the tournament game, because of the team help. This diluted the competition.
The gray area in the rules, almost takes on the "appearance" of cheating or a phony outcome, fishing with the team. If not, why not discuss it in detail, with the names of the teams members.
I wrote an e-mail to Forrest to get his response to the situation. Since he is a fellow fisherman and his name is the FLW, I will be curious to see what his response will be.
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 01:40 PM
Forrest replied to my e-mail. Through all this, I still had an opportunity to invite him to go walleye fishing. I hope he takes me up on it.
Stacker1
02-14-2008, 02:07 PM
Can you post what forrest sent you, or do we have to guess or fill his box with our own requests?
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 02:51 PM
When I get more info., I'll ask for permission to post the replies.
Remember, clearing this up, is for the fans, and for future FLW walleye fishermen.
Are the sponsors aware of the "team" concept in the FLW Walleye tournaments?
Stacker1
02-14-2008, 03:38 PM
>When I get more info., I'll ask for permission to post the
>replies.
>
>Remember, clearing this up, is for the fans, and for future
>FLW walleye fishermen.
>
>Are the sponsors aware of the "team" concept in the FLW
>Walleye tournaments?
TO KLN
When you get something that you can post, then tell us about it. Until then, this fan of walleye fishing would rather you not make yourself out to be the big man in this fight without showing your gathered info. Also, you have the man on e-mail, why ask us more questions. You obviously can ask him.
Namedropper
02-14-2008, 04:30 PM
Al, Gary, and Sr. said to tell you that its "Mr. Wood" to you son...
Namedropper
02-14-2008, 04:30 PM
Al, Gary, and Sr. said to tell you that its "Mr. Wood" to you son...
Stacker1
02-14-2008, 05:18 PM
> Al, Gary, and Sr. said to tell you that its "Mr. Wood" to
>you son...
what are you talking about?
Stacker1
02-14-2008, 05:18 PM
> Al, Gary, and Sr. said to tell you that its "Mr. Wood" to
>you son...
what are you talking about?
namedropper
02-14-2008, 05:45 PM
Post #38.....not you stacker1
namedropper
02-14-2008, 05:45 PM
Post #38.....not you stacker1
Jonny
02-14-2008, 09:31 PM
Hopefully the weather warms soon so some individuals can get outside and away from their keyboards.....I'm sure anglers that are seriously considering fishing the FLW at some time will do there own research and talk to other anglers that have actually fished the Tour to get their info. If they are going to invest the time and money required to do so, I doubt they will look to your post for any answers KLN. continue trollin...........
Jonny
02-14-2008, 09:31 PM
Hopefully the weather warms soon so some individuals can get outside and away from their keyboards.....I'm sure anglers that are seriously considering fishing the FLW at some time will do there own research and talk to other anglers that have actually fished the Tour to get their info. If they are going to invest the time and money required to do so, I doubt they will look to your post for any answers KLN. continue trollin...........
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 09:32 PM
Stacker, you got it all wrong! It's not about me, I'm just a spectator. It's about future FLW walleye fishermen and what they are up against. If you think I'm a big man for looking for questions, my answer to that is; someone had to do it. I've know about this for three years and never pressed for the details, until it was identified on national television. I can understand yours and others frustrations and why someone would want to take shots at me, protecting the status quo. If you're a good fisherman and belong there, a change to the format shouldn't affect your fishing.
One of three things is going to happen here; they are going to formally address the teams in the curcuit, they will change the rules to eliminate the teams, or tell me to sit down and shut up and leave it like it is. Personally, I think they should change the rules to eliminate the teams. Either way, everybody will know what they are up against when they fish a FLW walleye tournament.
The FLW was the one that announced the team concept, not me. Before we get all wound up, lets hear the FLW's take on it.
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 09:32 PM
Stacker, you got it all wrong! It's not about me, I'm just a spectator. It's about future FLW walleye fishermen and what they are up against. If you think I'm a big man for looking for questions, my answer to that is; someone had to do it. I've know about this for three years and never pressed for the details, until it was identified on national television. I can understand yours and others frustrations and why someone would want to take shots at me, protecting the status quo. If you're a good fisherman and belong there, a change to the format shouldn't affect your fishing.
One of three things is going to happen here; they are going to formally address the teams in the curcuit, they will change the rules to eliminate the teams, or tell me to sit down and shut up and leave it like it is. Personally, I think they should change the rules to eliminate the teams. Either way, everybody will know what they are up against when they fish a FLW walleye tournament.
The FLW was the one that announced the team concept, not me. Before we get all wound up, lets hear the FLW's take on it.
Chad M
02-14-2008, 09:50 PM
If you read all the posts this whole thing is really funny. I wonder if KLN2 has a clue about anything having to do with tournament fishing.
Writing a letter to Forest.....Would that be Gump? He's got to know more that Woods.
He seems pretty concerned about the whole thing for someone that doesn't know much. It just all looks pretty fishy to me.
Chad M
02-14-2008, 09:50 PM
If you read all the posts this whole thing is really funny. I wonder if KLN2 has a clue about anything having to do with tournament fishing.
Writing a letter to Forest.....Would that be Gump? He's got to know more that Woods.
He seems pretty concerned about the whole thing for someone that doesn't know much. It just all looks pretty fishy to me.
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 09:51 PM
If you didn't know, I have the upmost respect for Forrest. His picture is the only picture allowed on my boat, I own a Ranger. I would really enjoy sharing some walleye fishing with him, if the situation ever presents itself.
KLN2 ul
02-14-2008, 09:51 PM
If you didn't know, I have the upmost respect for Forrest. His picture is the only picture allowed on my boat, I own a Ranger. I would really enjoy sharing some walleye fishing with him, if the situation ever presents itself.
2U KLN2
02-14-2008, 10:08 PM
Since all your knowledge on the innerworkings of the FLW walleye tour has filled up the space in your brain, you might be wise to review what goes on for other professional tours - it happens on the PWT along with the FLW Tour and Series (bass events) the BASS Elite series and most major events. It's not a prominent on the BASS side but does happen. While you are busy grinding your axe make sure to have all your targets in a line so when you swing you can (in theory) take them all down.
Why don't you jump in and show the walleye world what you've got instead of hiding behind an excuse of 'I can't compete against these teams'? Many folks have gone at it solo and had good success!
2U KLN2
02-14-2008, 10:08 PM
Since all your knowledge on the innerworkings of the FLW walleye tour has filled up the space in your brain, you might be wise to review what goes on for other professional tours - it happens on the PWT along with the FLW Tour and Series (bass events) the BASS Elite series and most major events. It's not a prominent on the BASS side but does happen. While you are busy grinding your axe make sure to have all your targets in a line so when you swing you can (in theory) take them all down.
Why don't you jump in and show the walleye world what you've got instead of hiding behind an excuse of 'I can't compete against these teams'? Many folks have gone at it solo and had good success!
"tell me to sit down and shut up and leave it like it is."
That would be my guess as to the one of the options. You just found out a bout teamwork 3 years ago? And when did you realize there were actually things like fishing tournaments?
Tight Lines All,
Shep
"tell me to sit down and shut up and leave it like it is."
That would be my guess as to the one of the options. You just found out a bout teamwork 3 years ago? And when did you realize there were actually things like fishing tournaments?
Tight Lines All,
Shep
Stacker1
02-15-2008, 11:39 AM
OK I will defend KLN
I mearly asked him to post what Forrest said. And to not mention it unless he had something from forrest. You guys are just now being mean.
New people to the tournament world sometimes do not understand how it all has worked over time. Now that he knows, he is wondering if this should happen. I will weigh in on the subject.
A team is only as good as you make it. You can exchange info with your mates, but it is what you do with it on the water that makes the difference. Let me tell you this, if you and your mates are on a bite, there are many others that know about it as well. The most important part is getting the whys from your mates. Why are the fish were they are? I dont care which tour you fish, they are all very good sticks.
A friend said to me about wabigoon last year Quote"....I have fished there for 30 years and know the water well, it took them guys 3 days and they were on every spot I had ever found. These guys are good." Un-quote.
It does not matter. You can outlaw it, but they will still do it. It only sucks if you dont find a pattern and they do. The old adage goes like this, when I am winning I beat the fantastic team of so and so and so. When I lose, them guys need to disband, they just have to be cheating.
Stacker1
02-15-2008, 11:39 AM
OK I will defend KLN
I mearly asked him to post what Forrest said. And to not mention it unless he had something from forrest. You guys are just now being mean.
New people to the tournament world sometimes do not understand how it all has worked over time. Now that he knows, he is wondering if this should happen. I will weigh in on the subject.
A team is only as good as you make it. You can exchange info with your mates, but it is what you do with it on the water that makes the difference. Let me tell you this, if you and your mates are on a bite, there are many others that know about it as well. The most important part is getting the whys from your mates. Why are the fish were they are? I dont care which tour you fish, they are all very good sticks.
A friend said to me about wabigoon last year Quote"....I have fished there for 30 years and know the water well, it took them guys 3 days and they were on every spot I had ever found. These guys are good." Un-quote.
It does not matter. You can outlaw it, but they will still do it. It only sucks if you dont find a pattern and they do. The old adage goes like this, when I am winning I beat the fantastic team of so and so and so. When I lose, them guys need to disband, they just have to be cheating.
DickTracy
02-15-2008, 01:13 PM
KLN, When you get done bringing justice to the fishing world and rid the circuit of these no good scoundrals, the inspector has a new case for you...It seems a whole other group of pro's are walking on the dark side and using live bait...What is this sport comming too..
DickTracy
02-15-2008, 01:13 PM
KLN, When you get done bringing justice to the fishing world and rid the circuit of these no good scoundrals, the inspector has a new case for you...It seems a whole other group of pro's are walking on the dark side and using live bait...What is this sport comming too..
KLN2 ul
02-15-2008, 09:16 PM
Great explaination. Since I have gotten lots of ugly feedback, I'm at the point, I don't want to know the answers. I got a response from the FLW and I'm not going to read it, just delete it. If anybody wants to know the reponse from the FLW, contact them yourselves.
The irony of this; the last time I saw or heard name calling was from frustration, after I won my first walleye tournament.
teams
02-16-2008, 09:24 AM
At every level of tournaments you will get these so called teams. I fish alot of local 40 to 70 team club tournaments, and ther are all sorts of teams. So it just doesnt happen at the pro circuit level. We have 2 other teams that we share info with. But like someone else said, what you do on friday doesnt always help you on saturday tournament day. we normally prefish 1 or 2 days before a tournament, and we all share what areas did good and didnt do good. We would share what presentation did good and what didnt do good. But I will be honest with you, normally we would just fish what worked for us, and rarelly would we fish what one of the other teammates told us was working. Only time we would do that is when we were struggling to duplicate what was working so good for us when pre fishing. It would be more of a back up plan when things didnt go right with our first or second places didnt produce. And I think that is how all 3 of our teams do things, cause we usually dont see our other teams around until later in the day when things didnt work out for either of us. This whole team thing is so over rated if you ask me though. Cause walleyes move all the time. Thats why when prefishing you can kill them, then the next day when it counts you swear ther isnt a fish in the lake. I have found that the worst I do in prefishing, the better I do on tournament day. For what ever reason.
Lucky Dog
02-16-2008, 10:24 AM
I heard that many of the fishing articles that we read are not written by the pros who sign them. Check it out will ya.
Walkeye
02-16-2008, 12:23 PM
Any information given by team members when pre fishing is fine, but everyone should be on there own during tournaments.Information doesnt make fish bite.As far as I can tell us tournament fisherman are all on the same team.
""Not catching is still fishing""
Jonny
02-16-2008, 09:39 PM
I'm sure you did, good for you. You go thru all this trouble to get reply's, even from the FLW, then you don't read their response? Hopefully the snow melts in front of your door so you can get outside and away from the chat forums.
FYI, you must really be better than you think you are?