to quick to kill a circuit / time to offer to help!

[general observation]

I have really noticed a trend this year that is very displeasing to me. Before I go any further, I want to note that I do feel that directors should find the time to e-mail or return phone calls, I DO!!!

It seems that everyone wants to crucify a circuit for not having all their info ready by Jan 1, and call it dead, and then rip appart the directors for being no good, or what ever.

As a director of two circuits that holds 12 events this year, work a full time job (gone 12 hours from the home office each day)goes to sport shows to please past and hopefully future sponsors, speak at seminars, try to arrange a schedule around 5 or 6 other circuits, it is not as easy as every one seems to think it is!!!!!!!!

A lot of things go into play before making announcements, and putting your schedule up. Trying to get communities to chip in with sponsorships is ridiculous. Some will play the game for months, but when it comes time to write the check, and sign the contract, oops need to have 4 more months of meetings.

Try getting sponsors to help. In my area I have created an interest were there either wasn't one, or one barily existed. I have helped to generate a lot of business for the fishing industry, but with the exception of a couple, the manufactuers sponsor very few prizes, and I have gotten 0 dollars from them to even help with the price of posters, etc for the events.This is just the tip of the iceburg that puts circuit directors into feb or march before making announcements.

I can't speak for all directors or circuits, but for myself, I do it so there is options available to the anglers, sacrificing "ALL MY TIME AND FISHING TIME" as well as personal time with friends and loved ones, and I do it for "no" pay!!!!!!!!!

The next time anyone feels the needs to complain, ask yourself this:

Have I done all I can to help my circuit and the circuit director out?
Could I have helped with the website?
Could I have helped with the permits?
Could I have helped with writing dozens to hundreds of letters to potential sponsors?
Have I taken thousands of dollars out of my own pocket to hopefully break even?

Have I even thanked my director for doing the above along with dozens of other jobs behind the scene, missing out on his own availability to go fish tournaments or for fun, missing hunting seasons, for working till 5 in the morning, and only getting 3-4 hour sleep a day.

Have I thanked the directors significant other who puts up with all the bs so everyone else can enjoy fishing the tournament.

The next time you want to critisize, ask yourself these questions, then make a phone call and offer to help.

This is a very thankless job. I want to see it around for future generations to enjoy, but a lot (not all) of people make it hard to give all your time and not even feel appreciated.

[welcome]

welcome to self-employment

[general observation]

I am not sure I follow you.

This is not self employment to me, I work a full time job.

I do this without any pay, it is my choice, but as stated above, people don't seem to get it.

Are you one of these people that complains without offering to help?

[Burr]

To a point, I understand what your saying 'general observation'. I spent last weekend putting stamps, return addresses, and address labels on quite a few envelopes getting ready to mail our entry forms.

It's not so much getting help - after all, I'm the one who would be responsible to get the help. But I do agree that being asked for the information earlier and earlier each year is disconcerting. I know some of these tournament announcements are made before a permit can be secured, because I know when some states start the permitting process! I chose not to announce a tournament before the permit is secured, let alone take entries and money from either the contestants or sponsors.

All the while - I dread the thought of being treated inappropriately at an event. I try to create a level field for competition, but I know I'm not perfect, and at some time, I will make a mistake. As a volunteer - it will be very tempting to walk away. Like you stated, maybe I could then fish a couple tournaments. I've gotten to the point, if I want to fish a tournament, I have to look at other organization's tournamnets!

A little compassion and empathy can go a long way.

At the same time, I'm really excited about the tournament we are adding this year - the sponsors have stepped up incredibly to support the addition, and it will be a ton of fun to be involved.

[wallhanger5878]

So, What you are saying is that your tournaments are 100% paybacks?? If not then your getting paid. Yea, some of this money is spent in posters etc.... but is the left over money put in your pocket or given back to the anglers.

I personally think that if someone tries to call you could at least answer the phone. One director has responded to the treads on WC but also states he doesn't frequent the site because of all the bashing. Well maybe if you would answer some of the emails or give a phone number that has not been disconnected then people wouldn't over react.

Being a director is I'm sure not fun but to be successful you must be VISIBLE also. Not every day can you be but COMMUNICATION = SUCCESS. No communication = unsuccessful.

Stand up for yourself and your wrong doings and people will respect you more don't and you'll be bashed and rightfully so. People what to hear from you a least once in a while.

[EYECRAZY]

I know exactly where you are coming from. I started a club/series last year & am trying to make it grow this year. I feel your pain-LOL. But we do it because we love it,wishing others would feel the same way-some do & some don't. The nature of the beast,I guess. Steve Hammons HWA Director

[WAZZZ]

Maybe you guys can do it on the Fox Chain in Illinois. We are looking for a good crew to step up.

[Burr]

>So, What you are saying is that your tournaments are 100%
>paybacks?? If not then your getting paid. Yea, some of this
>money is spent in posters etc.... but is the left over money
>put in your pocket or given back to the anglers.

I volunteer through a non-profit fishing club. The two tournies we have had for a number of years are 80% payback tournaments. The 20% goes to the fishing club programs, many of them geared for children. None into my pockets. Of course none of this is news - the payouts are disclosed in advance.

If payback is important to you, you will like the new tournament we are adding this year with another fishing club. The payback in this event will be close to 300%. All sponsor, entry, and advertising will go directly back to the 40 teams fishing it.

[Stacker1]

Burr, If you run a tournament series that is a non-profit, why would you give 40 teams the sponsor dollars and such? That really makes no sense. Them 40 teams will not draw that many more people to watch and get a chance to recoup your cash.

Observation guy, I think It is time for you to get out of the business. It is obvious you do not like what you do. Running a circuit should put a positive cash flow in your pocket. If it does not then you tend to get a bit P*&&# about everything. Its just fine to tell everyone you are having a tourney a few months ahead, but gonna be tough to get many people to anti-up. They ask early to plan. Thats all, please dont hang them.

I do run a tourney. I do so because I enjoy it. Other than permits, its really not that tough, so please don't make it out to be some "Over the Top" job.

[Burr]

Are you having a bad day Stacker? I think you've somewhat exagerrated anything I've tried to express.

[Stacker1]

Sorry Burr, no need to offend any one here. Just wondering how you intend to make money when you are giving it all away. My interest is piqued.

[marcnsaugeyes]

Hallaleuah finally it's being put out as it is. For the most part the director's job is a payless and thankless job. Your greatful for the few who do thank you or help out. Our circuit is a 80% payback and the other 20% goes to plaques and jackets for the end of the year circuit champions. Any left goes to mailing entries, results. newsletters etc. Thankfully even though our sponsors don't give cash they do give us plenty of product and we give them out to the places below those paying cash and set aside a small ammount for the champions. Your right stating that it's a semi-full time job on top of our full time jobs. We do it out of love for the sport. But the deadlines and some of the whining you put up with can make you occasionally rethink what your doing. From one director to another Thank you for keeping the spirit up and plugging on...

[Few thoughts]

I here you swimming up stream, pulling your hair out for the critics. Hey I've never been a tournament director but here are few thoughts I would like to share from fishing tournaments now that you've opened up.

The higher the entry, the more I expect as being planned out, professional etc.. If your paying a few hundred I can deal with last minute adjustments but as entry's go into 4 figures... well you better have it together.

Don't promise what you can't deliver.

Speak to other tournament directors, e-mail folks who've been down the road and ask them what's worked in there tournaments, what hasn't, how should I address this situation, how do you seek/recruit volunteers... there's a whole list of them in the tournament page on this site. I would think (don't know for sure) most of them would share some expertise to address some of your personal frustrations.

As for sponsorships that can be a tough sell at times. My recommendation is to position yourself as an out of town tournament angler and take all fishing equipment out of the equation. Why? How many times do you think a luhr/line/tackle/boat company/dealership get hit with "I'm having a tournament could you chip in a few extra bucks"? Instead take a look at it like this... What are there NEEDS.... a place to stay? Fuel for a boat/truck? A place to eat? A place to pick up bait in the morning? These are the simple ones. Besides that is there any organization/business who like tourist dollars? I see where SD tourism is kicking in dollars to attract tournament anglers.... might be a start if your in that state. Secondly package up a presentation to show the "BENEFITS" of your sponsorship beyond the weekend event. Short example profile the anglers that have entered your event, income levels, expenditures, impact on local community... etc. The key is to package it up so the potential sponsory can see the "BENEFIT" of your sponsorship before/at and beyond the tournament. Use your direct mail, posters, P/R, rules meeting, website etc as ways to add benefit... don't say it show it to them. Invite the media to the event- print, have participants available to speak (if they would like) print and broadcast. Deliver beyond expectations to these sponsors,...at the very least a personal thank you note after it's over.

I realize that you will not satisfy everybody, nor do you want to try to. Think of it as your in the people business, not the tournament business, be honest, be prompt, be positive and be yourself.

I can elaborate further if needed, but I didn't invent this model, I've observed it and I would like to see the walleye tournaments go beyond what I've read on this post in the past few months.

Let me know how I can help, if interested now and in the future.

[Few thoughts]

I here you swimming up stream, pulling your hair out for the critics. Hey I've never been a tournament director but here are few thoughts I would like to share from fishing tournaments now that you've opened up.

The higher the entry, the more I expect as being planned out, professional etc.. If your paying a few hundred I can deal with last minute adjustments but as entry's go into 4 figures... well you better have it together.

Don't promise what you can't deliver.

Speak to other tournament directors, e-mail folks who've been down the road and ask them what's worked in there tournaments, what hasn't, how should I address this situation, how do you seek/recruit volunteers... there's a whole list of them in the tournament page on this site. I would think (don't know for sure) most of them would share some expertise to address some of your personal frustrations.

As for sponsorships that can be a tough sell at times. My recommendation is to position yourself as an out of town tournament angler and take all fishing equipment out of the equation. Why? How many times do you think a luhr/line/tackle/boat company/dealership get hit with "I'm having a tournament could you chip in a few extra bucks"? Instead take a look at it like this... What are there NEEDS.... a place to stay? Fuel for a boat/truck? A place to eat? A place to pick up bait in the morning? These are the simple ones. Besides that is there any organization/business who like tourist dollars? I see where SD tourism is kicking in dollars to attract tournament anglers.... might be a start if your in that state. Secondly package up a presentation to show the "BENEFITS" of your sponsorship beyond the weekend event. Short example profile the anglers that have entered your event, income levels, expenditures, impact on local community... etc. The key is to package it up so the potential sponsory can see the "BENEFIT" of your sponsorship before/at and beyond the tournament. Use your direct mail, posters, P/R, rules meeting, website etc as ways to add benefit... don't say it show it to them. Invite the media to the event- print, have participants available to speak (if they would like) print and broadcast. Deliver beyond expectations to these sponsors,...at the very least a personal thank you note after it's over.

I realize that you will not satisfy everybody, nor do you want to try to. Think of it as your in the people business, not the tournament business, be honest, be prompt, be positive and be yourself.

I can elaborate further if needed, but I didn't invent this model, I've observed it and I would like to see the walleye tournaments go beyond what I've read on this post in the past few months.

Let me know how I can help, if interested now and in the future.

[steve rustad]

I think the only reason to run a tournament is that you have a feeling that you are doing something right.
For some reason nobody else feels the need for competition,comradary,thrill of exciting others that do not fish competitivly,and enhancing the community you have the tournament in.
If the people i know did not put in the love of fishing as part of the reason they decide to put on or help with one we simply wouldnt have any.
You have to be able to take the flack,expect that not everyone is going to be happy with the way things work out,and humbly smile as you know you are probaly doing something that the naysayers simply are not capable of producing.
Just because you live in an area with lakes dont expect that every buisness in town wants to help with your cause.Never expect that anyone is your sponsor until they produce[show me the money].Do not count a team in until they have a signed application on your desk.
The part of being earlier and earlier each year with information is startling but acceptable as their are getting to be more and more rallys and tourneys starting every year.Making decisions on where to fish and which weekends to do it are more crucial as people are forced into economically defending the need to pay bills and work more to do it as we are in a recesion.
Now too you have to account that 100% is being paid out or you are considered a larse.So without great sponsorship and volunteer management it is nearly impossible to run a good payout tourny.
The area where we live we have never scene the Visitors Bureau or Chamber or any such group chip in or promote any type of sports shows ,fishing tournaments,or any thing to promote the idea we have lakes here.But everyone still puts on their days of competition.
It takes three years to get something good going and when you have it going it takes only a few fowl mouths to run something down that is good.These are usually persons that have a small right to voicing any opinion.
Live with the fact its tough and live with the ideal thought you are doing something right.

[wa_walleye]

As a tournament guy when people gripe I tell them one thing. "If you can do it better step up and donate your time and money. If not kindly keep your opinion to yourself." Everybody has an idea and an opinion. There are ideas and suggestions I have given my directors. If they take them great if they don't that's fine too. I have no right to complain unless I am willing to make the sacrifices to make them happen. Call me selfish but I will take take away from the extra time with my family or on the water than take the reponsibility of becoming a director. Does that make me bad? No, just being honest with myself. BTW, if a director asks me for anything yes I do pitch in and help....

Thank you all tournament directors for your sacrifices,

Brian

[bradley894]

I JUST WANTED TO THANK ALL THE TOURAMENT DIRECTORS AND STAFF AND VOLENTEER S FROM TOP TO BOTTOM... I AM GUILTY OF NOT DOING ENUFF TO HELP .. IN OUR BUSY WORLD SOMETIMES WE DONT STOP TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED ... FOR THE LARGER CERCUITS PWT AND FLW ITS A BUISNESS ... BOTTOM LINE..... FOR THE MWC I THINK ITS TIME TO LOOK AT IT AS MORE OF A CLUB EVENT... MY OPINION ,, GO BACK TO THE 80'S AND 90'S WHEN MAYBE 2% WHEN EXPENCES ARE ADDED UP COME OUT AHEAD FOR THE YEAR OUT OF 200 TEAMS.... SORY ITS A HOBBIE, NO NEED FOR HIGHER ENTRIES OR PAYOUT AND STAFF OVERHEAD TO MAKE IT APEAR BIGGER THAN IT IS.... TO ALL THE pro'Z FISHING THE MWC OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BIG 2.... wake UP .... THE DEFINITION OF A PRO IS THE ABUILITY TO MAKE A LIVING DOING IT... CAN YOU ? HAVE YOU EVER? HEY WE ALL LOVE TO DREAM! MYSELF INCLUDED.... HECK OF THE PWT AND FLW WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE FIELD IS A TRU-PRO ANYWAY? 10% BIG TIME WALLEYE FISHERMAN yes ,,, TOP OF THERE CLASS YES, ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD YES.........PRO? GET YOUR TAXES OUT... IS IT A WRITE OFF? OR AN INCOME? thank you agian to all the tournament directors bottom up! sunday events, tavern tournaments,, merc national , otter street , mws, wave wacker,wwa, max lure, the little cercuits all over the country,, heck even those wacky bass guys i guess..... add up what 20 % of a field of a 50 at $100 a boat ... thats 1000.00 for the tournament director to cover equipment purchased tow vehical support staff room rent fuel and a few extra hands to help out..... whats left a couple hundy when he goes home at 6pm sunday? weekend shot. what did the angler spend the same weekend? fuel 200 dollars room 80-200 food beverages time off of work entry fee 150 ,big fish pot .. a few new cranks or jigs. add that up? you spend 500 dollars without blinking an eye... come home with nothing 70% of the time... and your director gets to take home about 5 dollars a boat? when all said and done? you tip your pro in the big tournaments 50 a day,, i say there should be a tip jar for the directors and staff... the volenteers from walleyes for tommorow. whatever throw a 5 spot in and double there takehome...at least get them set up with a good stake saturday night,,, im the first to admit as an angler its hard on the checkbook ,and you pay a lot of money for the beating you get by your fellow competitors , but the director gets the brunt of our thaughts when its not his fault you had a bad day on the water spent 500 or 5000 dollars and you couldnt catch a the big one and go home empty handed AGAIN ! just a thaugt.. PRO? whatever... friends, good times , a small bet , and compition... great equipment , sparkly boats and trucks.. the show thats what we like to see... were all about the show. a piece of plywood with a date and a fish ground into it.. a check and steak dinner on the ride home... ya thats it ,,, the big time! i like it, big or small,,, gimmy my plywood a few bux ahead for the weekend and more weight at the scale than my buddies so i can claim to be the big dog for the weekend... then back home to make up with the real big dog of the world and spend another couple hundy smoothing over the wife .