How do you test a rod's sensitivity before buying?

[Otter]

How do you test a rod's sensitivity before buying it?

[Walleye Jason]

This is what I do,


I take a 10' piece of my favriot fishing line and tie it to a 1/4 clipped jig. On the other end I tie a big loop.


When I get to the store I take the loop end and run it through the last eye on the rod, then I put the clipped jig through the looop. now I flip the 1/4 oz jig out, hold the rod and drag the jig, hop it, and try to get a feeling of what a 1/4 jig feels like with the rod. Its not perfect, but it gives you a pretty gppd Idea

Good luck
WJ

[Brian]

The one that cost the most is the most sensitive. (Ha Ha) I went to the Denver Sportsman Show last week and looked for a new jigging rod. I went to several booths, G-Loomis, St Croix, Berkley and a few others.The salesman were great. I would give them the old test shake (to sample the action) and then drag the tip across the carpet (to test the sensitivity).I went back to a couple of booths to recheck. My findings are this:
"I Don't Know".
I did wonder if with the new lines available the rod sensitivity is not as critical as it was with old mono lines. I didn't buy a rod at the show but I found a local dealer that carries them. I will probably buy the St Croix. The question now is do I buy two $80 rods or one $160 rod. I figure I have about two months to think about it.

Brian

[llg]

I do a little rod building as a hobby.

I asked this question of the "experts" at rodbuilding site. I asked about a "solid graphite rod" they said it would not be as sensitive as a "tube". Because sensitivity was: a comparison of how stiff it is and weight.

The stiffer and lighter the more sensitive.

This however has nothing to do with durability.

This doesn't help you with a test method, but should give you a little more insight in choosing a rod.

[Bryan]

Try holding the rod in one hand and have a friend put the tip of the rod to his adams apple on his throat. Get him to speak in a normal tone of voice and you will feel the vibtation through the rod to the handle. Compare in this way, light action to light action, medium action to medium action and so on. You will have no doubt as to which rod is the most sensitive.
Later: Bryan

[Jack G]

Otter

This has been discussed quite a bit a many seem to have rather strong feelings about it.

I think that most of us cannot really tell the slight degree of sensitivity difference between most good rods of the same weight, length, etc. I tried a St Croix Avid this last year and I think it is a very good rod but I cannot say that it is worth the additional money since I have a couple favorite jigging rods that I paid about $70 for and they seem equal to the Avid.

I would say buy quality equipment and you probably won't go wrong but if you think an extra $100 for a rod is worth it to you then spend the money and to blazes with all the conflicting opinions.

Just my opinion.

Good luck.

Jack

[T-Mac]

This may not work on several of my buddies. In fact, on 2 of them, I did not know they had a neck, until their wives showed me old photos to see "skinny" these guys USED to be. LOL

[eyewitness]

All I can say is this. Go buy a Gloomis IMX or GLX rod or a St. Croix Legend Elite and fish with it for a few outings. There will be no doubt left in your mind and you will never want to go back to something lesser. There is a good reason why those of us who use these high end rods swear by them and it's not a pride thing I can assure you. If you fish only a couple times a year, then spending that kind of money would obviously be foolish, unless of course you can afford it. Just trying one for a few casts that a buddy has isn't going to help you decide either. It's a different feel and of course matching a reel and line type that you prefer is going to have a big impact on the end result you experience. WARNING!! It is an expensive habit. See once you buy one and use it, you will end up buying more. Don't know how or why, it just happens.....Kind of like going into Cabelas just to look and walking out with $200 less in your pocket. It just happens.....

[Smarty Pants]

Weight-Stiffness-Price Tag. What else is there?

[ezmarc]

Yell at it and see if it cries!

Seriously though, I hold the handle of the rod in one hand and just touch the tip with the other. If you want real sensitivity then go with braid or fusion.

[TONY ON ICE]

EYEWITNESS
I'd have to disagree with you on your theory about buying the high end rods. Probably not going to be a popular post but the "high end" rod business is one of the biggest scams in the fishing industry whether anyone wants to believe it or not.
I've always been against gouging the fishermen price wise and the high end rod business does just that.
I've been building rods for years and deal with many of the big manufacturers supply houses and once you get to see how the industry works, it would change your mind.
Don't know if you've ever heard of "Reddington" rods but they're a fairly high end rod company that will sell you the finished product or the components so you can assemble your own rods.
They sell a graphite blank, 8 ft medium light action spining rod for $77.00 and I used to buy them and make some real nice rods using them until a misake by someone in their shop that led to a tag being left on one of the blanks from the original manufacturer.
Once I saw the tag, I contacted this company and they sold me the blanks for $16.99 each.
It's great blank and makes a real nice rod but Reddington boasted of using the highest quality blanks made in their shop. These blanks came from one of the biggest blank manufactures in the country.
I don't have a problem with anyone making money but the way they do it in the rod industry is rediculous.
With the blank costing $17 bucks, I could equip it with SIC guides and a high quality handle and reel seat and still sell the rod for $60 and double my money. (the other scam is how long some people tell you it takes to assemble a rod) Not long once you're set up.
The bottom line is there aren't too many companies out there that manufacture rod blanks (especiall their own) and only a handful that do and they manufacture them for many of the rod manufacturers.
Many of Cabelas High End rods are made by one of the major "Big Name" rod manufactures in the country but you can buy the rods from Cabelas for up to $150 dollars less than if you bought it from their own catalog. Plus, Cabelas gives a better warranty than the big company so you can imagine how low the price must be to offer such good warrantees.
Even if they replaced the rod for you twice, they would still be ahead of the game.
The sudden surge in high priced ice rods is another story all together !
$50.00 for a 24 inch ice rod ?
It's what the market will bear that fixes the prices. If you make people believe they'll be better fishermen / women if they use a $50 dollar ice rod, they'll buy them, and they are.
Same rod can be built for less than $7.00 in materials and less than 15 minutes to assemble it.
There's an abundance of store bought rods that are as servicable as anything on the custom market for a fraction of the cost. You just have to pick through the racks.
Sensetivity of a graphite rod goes about as far as the wind blows meaning if you're fishing in stiff winds or adverse conditions, the money spent to purchase a high end gaphite rod is nullified for the most part..
It's just like all these young kids with the car steroes who spend incredible amounts of money for all the gold connectors, junction boxes and monster speaker cable so it will improve the sound they get from their systems but as soon as they start their vehicles, all the money spent on that equiptment is wasted as engine and road noise masks any improvements made.
Trap Shooters and Golfers are in the same boat so to speak...Always looking for the magic gun or club and spending thousands of dollars in the procees but in all reality, if you don't have the ability to shoot or hit a golf ball consistanty, a $5,000 gun or a $400 golf club isn't going to help.
Vertical jigging with a 1/2 oz or heavier jigging Rap or similar bait pretty much reduces the sensitivty factor, especially in heavy current.
I believe the new Flourocarbon and super lines are more of a factor than the rods we use when it comes to sensitivity.
There's a million angles to look at and discuss but the theory of "More Expensive" is better, doesn't cut the cake.

Just my 2 cents based on what I've seen and dealt with over the years.

[Reels]

I have two friends that live in Babbit MN and we go out to the boundery waters. They have K-mart rods from 1970 something, and I remember laughing as I was jigging with my Loomis. These guys kick my butt in fish #'s every year.

I guess it dont matter what you use, The person controlling it is responsible in the end.

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[tasteedan]

Great Post! You say you assemble rods? As a Hobby? I'm Interested! E-mail me if you wish. tasteedan@dtgnet.com

[eyewitness]

Good post. I do agree with most everything you've stated, however being a rod junky, I have an example of about all you speak of save the Reddington series. Yes, most off brand makes of rods such as Cabelas and Gander Mountain series rods are being built by the few big Mfr's. such as Berkley or St. Croix, however my post eluded to the best of the best by Loomis or St. Croix. Can I tell the difference between these rods and the other mediocre to better rods in my boat? You bet I can. Fish with an IMX or GLX for a while in Canada during a good bite, then switch to a different rod that is still a "good" rod and set it up with the same rigging and fish with it. You'll want that better rod back pretty quick. Obviously you can give a tool to someone who doesn't have the ability to use it and the outcome will always be luke warm. I do agree that the mark up on these rods is outrageous. Most of us don't have the time or knowledge to make our own rods though. I'll probably take it up in retirement. One more note. From what I understand, Loomis isn't selling their blanks to third parties any longer.

[REW]

I have to admit that I tend to agree with several of the other posts, that "super sensitive rods, with a high price" are very much overrated.

Yes I have some GLX, IMX, and other G Loomis rods. I also have some St. Croix legend elites, legends, and avid, as well as premier rods.

However, in the grand scope of fishing - about the only area that is really needful, of such a super sensitive rod, is for "jigging."

Even that, however, can be much minimized by bad or poor line selection, a heavy wind, or other factors.

I think that one of the biggest things that an "expensive" rod buys you is "light weight.
Since, many of the rod manufacturers are reluctant to add any weight to a rod, a lighter weight rod and components, make for a more nearly balanced rod.

I do believe very strongly, that a "balanced" rod fished better under all conditons of wind various lines and lures as well as weather.

However, if you take a rather inexpensive rod - and add a balancing kit - either commercial or home made - you can get a very fishable rig.

The other comments about rubbing the tip on the floor, using another persons larnex - while speaking - are all good indications of being able to detect minute vibrations.

However, if you get down to it - a piece of steel - does a wonderful job of transmitting vibrations.

so, as one of the other posts suggest - the lighter the blank -- i.e. the less mass to move, and thus transfer vibration, the stiffer the blank - thus more dense, and better able to transmit vibrations - both of which can be easily accomplished by any very high quality blank that is light weight.

It is interesting that if you look at a couple of well known rod manufactures - it seems that the price of the rod doubles, for a 10-20% reduction in weight.

Also, it is interesting to be concerned about the change in blank weight of 1/2 an oz - and be prepared to pay another $100 for this 1/2 oz weight reduction - and then without thinking - attach a 10 oz reel.

How, can you ever imagine the difference in this 1/2 oz weight reduction.

++++++++++

Having said all of the above - I do also tend to agree with one of the posters who fishes exclusively with the high end G Loomis and St. Croix rods.

I think that there is much more to rod weight and sensitivity, than just that. As the poster suggests - it is all about enjoyment, and the "feel of the rod in your hand, and the action that it imparts to the lure during the cast, the tap of the fish, and the retreive.

There is some "entinety" in these very excellent rods, that can't be quantified as "sensitivity" or "light weight".

I think that it simply translates to something called "excellent fishability."

The rod and blank manufacturers have simply "gotten it right" for some of these blanks.

++++
Now having said that, for virtually all other aspects of fishing - lindy rigging, trolling, etc. there is lot lots of reason - for either a super light wieght rod, and or sensitive rod.

However, fishing is a hobby, and as the saying goes - the only difference between a man and a boy is the price of their toys. If buying a $400 rod, makes you a better fisherman, and makes you feel better about the hobby - by all means make the purchase.

On the other hand - if you would rather spend the $400 else where, and fish with a $20 rod - then do that.

That is the wonderful thing about this hobby - there are so many ways to enjoy its varied and wondeful nature.

Take care

REW

[llg]

Tony,

I build rods only as a hobby and have trouble finding high quality blanks at a low price. I've been buying the lamiglass blems from Mudhole and I can get blanks from Merrick. Do you have any better sources? What about other components? Please e-mail me:

lgomarko@springfield.mntm.org

[eyewitness]

Once again thank you for your insight on things some of us take for granted. Balancing with the proper reel, line selection, and purpose of using the rod really do play a bigger part than realized when trying to select a good stick. I tend to think of a good spinning rod as a jiggin' or riggin' stick (typically jigging)and for that purpose, when set up correctly,you can tell the difference between a lighter blank, or even the diameter of the handle. Of course "all things being equal" is usually not the way we end up test driving things. Kind of like getting sound bites off the news. The story is only as true as the whole of its parts, or something like that. Anyway, like I stated before, as in anything you have a passion for, if you can afford to buy the best for what you enjoy doing, whether it be fishing or anything else, it will only enhance an already enjoyable experience. If it's not reasonable for the pocket book, there are plenty of rods that are good quality that will serve as a better value. I can certainly appreciate the viewpoint of those who have gotten accustom to building their own rods and know how to set up a good to better than average blank the correct way for optimum performance. Wish I had the time to dabble in it myself. Although it seems to me you could build a lot of rods before you actually get one right.

[Backwater Eddy]

LOL!

:)

Backwater Eddy ~ ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/home.html

[Backwater Eddy]

Great question, and there sure are some insightful posts that have added to my knowledge on rods. Thank's for that guys!

I tend to see rods in two main categories.

One is rods that are designed to let you know what's going on in your hands right now, as in jigging and rigging live baits.

The other type being, what's going on at the end of your line, as in Crankbait chucking, bait sets, float rigs, or trolling.

The in your hands style rods I like high modular graphite, boron, or composite blends. I pick the action to correlate to the lure weights I plan to use and the length of rod desired. Longer rods for shore casting, shorter for most boat applications. My final consideration is what the needs are for rigging the rod, as in guides and handle, and the fore grip.

The what's going on out there type rods I look to composites or glass for strength and durability. Next onto the desired application, and then guides and rigging. I like the composites and E-Glass for there ability to load up and hold fish making up for mistakes. Mistakes such as excessive line slop while trolling or over pressuring a fish boat side. They tend to keep things tighter at critical times. More forgiving is a better word possably?

So many manufactures have upgraded there materials in recent years that I feel there is no need to automatically run to the highest dollar options first.

Shop around and you will find what you need for far less cash. You are the only one who will know what it feels like to you in the end.


Backwater Eddy ~ ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/home.html

[Peanut]

I've learned alot in this post. Thanks. The lightness/stiffness test is easy to administer. I must admit that I often thought that stiffer rods were LESS sensitive than those whippy ones. I'm glad I was corrected.

Two follow-up questions:

1. Does thickness have any impact on sensitivity? the biggest difference in diameter is not at the tip, but the base, just in front of the cork. I've always thought thinner was more sensitive, but truly don't know.

2. How big a difference is there between one piece and two piece rods? Two piece rods are easier to store and travel with, but how much are you giving up? Assuming the same graphite, action and tip speed, how much better is a one piece?

Thanks for your thoughts.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Kdog]

Otter,i would ask your wife this question,LMAO.

[Goldpig]

I would agree that after using rods such as Loomies that it is easy to tell the difference between other rods. The combination of balance, weight, and sensitivity in high end rods is unbelievable. Now whether one can justify the additional money, obviously that is a personal choice. For me, I can justify the expense knowing that fishing is and always will be my greatest passion, therefore I want to use the best equipment that I can afford.

Now someone made an analogy to trapshooting. I used to shoot sporting clays w/ a MN state champion who used a Kriegoff (sp?), an eight thousand dollar gun. He let me shoot it two rounds, and both times I shot my best rounds. Well balanced, no kick. But, for five extra clays a round, I'll stick w/ my four hundred dollar Beretta. Once again, justification of the expense must be a personal decision.

[skipnskul]

Great one Marc

[ezmarc]

Hi Mike,

I couldn't resist! I'm glad someone else saw some humor in it. Ready to do some boating?

I got 4 Silstar rods at Walmart last summer that may have been tagged wrong, for 19 bucks each. They have been great, but a steehead ate one of them, now it makes a good ice fishin rod. Saw the same rod in Lorain for $70. Bad things always happen to my expensive rods so I just settle for middle of the road stuff now.

[TONY ON ICE]

PEANUT
Thickness of the blank definitely has a lot to do with strength and sensitivity of the finished product.
It's the manufacturing process that determines the thickness and the action of the blanks. Most of reputable blank manufacturers start of with 24,000 lb graphite cloth and it's wrapped around a mandrel. It's what goes on from there that determines the outcome of the blank. Resins, additives, drying times grinding and finishing can make or break a rod blank.
A blank that was evenly ground and finished will be more sensitive than a poorly finished blank but at what expense ? The blank that got the economy grinding and finishing job will still function fine and react in a similar fashion as the finely tuned and finished blank but you can buy it for 60 to 70 % less, especially in bulk.
There's hardly any more labor that goes into the fine tuned blank than the economy grade so the extra cost isn't justifiable.

The one piece rod is definitely a better tool in the hands of an experienced fisherman but for the average guy who's out there enjoying his time on the water, there isn't much of a noticable difference.
The two piece blanks have a dead spot and that's the ferrule area.
just as I mentioned about the kids with the car steroes, that joint in the rod eliminates much of the senstivity that you'd be paying for and if the fit isn't perfect (which half of the time they aren't), the blank is no better than a $12.00 bargain blank of the same configuration.

Experimenting with guides (downsizing) and guide heights / weights will give you more of a good feeling rod than spending the extra money on the top dollar blanks and rods. I just finished a rod for a guy here who wanted a 9 ft 5 wt Sage fly rod blank but built as a spinning rod for steelhead. The blank was $115.00 wholesale but I ordered a blank from a huge graphite bank manufcturer of the same configuraion for $20.79 and downsized the guides to single foot titanium high frame guides instead of the required guides for that application.
With a 12 inch graphite Tennessee handle and proper balance wights on the butt of the handle, this rod was much more fishable than it would have been with the Sage blank and the standard guides plus he only had to shell out about $85.00 for the finished product and he's extremely happy with it. not to mention suprised about how good a cheap blank can feel and work.
It's all in what you like but you have to remember that just about everything that's manufactured for us is manufacturered for the "Average" guy /gal and not many of us fit into that mold !
Just like gun fit. they're made for the average hunter / shooter but if you're 6'2 and weigh 275 or 5' 5 and 140 there's no way that store bought gun will fit you good enough to shoot consistantly.

[TONY ON ICE]

TASTEEDAN
I wish it were a hobby, it's more fun that way ! I'm a tackle manufacturer specializing in Ice Tackle so the rod building takes a back seat these days but still gets done.
It cuts into my fishing time too much !

[TONY ON ICE]

EYEWITNESS
Actually, G.Loomis was making many of Cabelas rods for the past 10 or 12 years but have since ceased that operation and it really got me P#SSED OFF ! I love the Cabelas "Easy Touch" rods and own 20 of them but they're getting along in years and through the abuse they've seen from me, they're strating to stress out and crack or break in two.
Loomis refuses to sell me the tip sections to repair my rods and Cabelas, who discountinued the rods a few years ago, just says they either can't divulge or or don't know who made the rods for them.
They were one of the best jigging rods ever built and they made them from 6 to 8 1/2 feet in length.
The tip section was hollow graphite tube with a solid carbon last 14 nches.
the solid tip was slipped into the blank and epoxied and they used a high frame match guide set up on the rods which made them extremely light, stiff and sensitive but very durabe too.
I've figured out what tip sections to buy and also the solid cabon ice rod blanks to epoxy into the tube to duplicate the Easy Touch rods.
I hope to mass produce these rods in the future.

[TONY ON ICE]

AMEN !!

[TONY ON ICE]

GOLDPIG
It's a known fact in the shooting world that when you shoot a new gun for the first time, (especially one that cost thousands and in front of fellow shooters) that you try harder and do the things needed to shoot well.
Usually right after the purchase the scores drop like a rock !
Seen many shooter try a gun out on the practice range and break 49 ot of 50 birds and then lay down the green backs and fall flat on their face. Soon the gun has a for sale sign on it.

Beware of the guy who shoots one gun for all events or has been shooting the same gun for as long as he's been in the sport !

[TONY ON ICE]

BACKWATER EDDY
you have the right anology there !
Worded excelently !

[eyewitness]

Let some of us know when you start to build them. I'd love to try one. Where are you located?