PWT Payout

[10Pound]

Wow, I know the teams were down, but I was shocked to see Ortiz only won $21,000 at the Bull Shoals tourny. With travel expense so high, there is not much of a carrot.?.?.?

[10Pound]

Wow, I know the teams were down, but I was shocked to see Ortiz only won $21,000 at the Bull Shoals tourny. With travel expense so high, there is not much of a carrot.?.?.?

[Rest]

What were the actual payouts. I just heard they paid the top 30. 30 of 56 getting a check seems pretty funny to me.

[Rest]

What were the actual payouts. I just heard they paid the top 30. 30 of 56 getting a check seems pretty funny to me.

[its me]

Here is the link for the payouts, also look at the payouts for the last flw. figure out the number of guys you get to fish against and the payout amounts they recieved. I will bet you guys can do that. Even though the dollars are down on the pwt overall, so is the competition. However, the dollars for the number of places is pretty darn close. Maybe i am missing something here. The bottom line is they fish for there own cash. You sit back and think somethings funny, I would like to know what. There are incentives in both venues so that is a non factor. Something needs to change.


http://www.in-fisherman.com/pwt/tournaments/08ARresults/


http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/tournament.cfm?cid=5&did=0&t=results

[its me]

Here is the link for the payouts, also look at the payouts for the last flw. figure out the number of guys you get to fish against and the payout amounts they recieved. I will bet you guys can do that. Even though the dollars are down on the pwt overall, so is the competition. However, the dollars for the number of places is pretty darn close. Maybe i am missing something here. The bottom line is they fish for there own cash. You sit back and think somethings funny, I would like to know what. There are incentives in both venues so that is a non factor. Something needs to change.


http://www.in-fisherman.com/pwt/tournaments/08ARresults/


http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/tournament.cfm?cid=5&did=0&t=results

[Vikings Fan]

Something does need to change. In the last two tournaments it looks like the break even point was 3-4th place on the PWT and about 8-10th place on the FLW depending on your contingency money eligibility. Payouts like that or the lack of them will empty out both circuits. Apparently that has already started. Which really is too bad and not what many of us were hoping for. It is obvious the law of skyrocketing expenses and diminishing financial returns has come into play for many potential competitors. The 2009 tournament season will need tournament directors working hard to keep down operational costs. Reduce travel distances and the subsequent related expenses. Tournament directors will need to foccus on making competing on a Pro circuit more affordable for the competitors. Regional divisions with less travel would help with that. Signing new sponsors will need to be a very important priority also. Simply maintaining the status quo won't cut it. 2008 with its 1/2 to 3/4 full tournaments has already proven that.

[Vikings Fan]

Something does need to change. In the last two tournaments it looks like the break even point was 3-4th place on the PWT and about 8-10th place on the FLW depending on your contingency money eligibility. Payouts like that or the lack of them will empty out both circuits. Apparently that has already started. Which really is too bad and not what many of us were hoping for. It is obvious the law of skyrocketing expenses and diminishing financial returns has come into play for many potential competitors. The 2009 tournament season will need tournament directors working hard to keep down operational costs. Reduce travel distances and the subsequent related expenses. Tournament directors will need to foccus on making competing on a Pro circuit more affordable for the competitors. Regional divisions with less travel would help with that. Signing new sponsors will need to be a very important priority also. Simply maintaining the status quo won't cut it. 2008 with its 1/2 to 3/4 full tournaments has already proven that.

[Deep Throat]

Fourth Place wins $3866.
Incentives $ 0

Entry fee is $1500.
Gas for round trip with truck $350
Gas for boat $400
Motel costs $420
Food costs $200
Fishing License $40.00
Misc bait, lost cranks, ice, suntan lotion, etc. $125

Total costs living cheap $3035

Real earnings: $831

Fishing the PWT…….. priceless

[Deep Throat]

Fourth Place wins $3866.
Incentives $ 0

Entry fee is $1500.
Gas for round trip with truck $350
Gas for boat $400
Motel costs $420
Food costs $200
Fishing License $40.00
Misc bait, lost cranks, ice, suntan lotion, etc. $125

Total costs living cheap $3035

Real earnings: $831

Fishing the PWT…….. priceless

[Tony Shirley]

Im sure the costs are much higher than that probably close to double goin to arkansas.

[Tony Shirley]

Im sure the costs are much higher than that probably close to double goin to arkansas.

[bwaly]

They probably spent closer to $4000 each. A fisherman taking 4th place is a great accomplishment but it didn't even cover the bills in a professional setting so when will they start paying them like they are PRO'S. These guys would be better off getting real jobs or they will go bankrupt!

[bwaly]

They probably spent closer to $4000 each. A fisherman taking 4th place is a great accomplishment but it didn't even cover the bills in a professional setting so when will they start paying them like they are PRO'S. These guys would be better off getting real jobs or they will go bankrupt!

[Raybob]

IMHO -from watching the tourney results from the high entry $$$$ pro-majors recently. It looks like close to 80-90% donators & 10-20% break even to money winners in the top 10-20%. It's become a rich man's sport for the donators -or- those who play the high-stakes game for a few years w/short term cash reserves, unless they have the skills to make it to the top 10-20% & push out some of the ex/borderline pros...

It seems w/the present pay-out format that the higher entry fees the lower the turn-out on many tourneys, unless the tourney is held in a high use area & even then the turn-out is usually lower...

Anywho ~ I'll always be a watcher from the 'cheap-seats w/interest in each tourney.

da old fart,
Bebob da I-Bobray

[RDJ]

Add about $700-$800 more to your vehicle fuel if your comming from the West..MT,ID,WA,OR

Looks like about 3400 miles R/T from Missoula,MT to Bull Shoals,AR.
Average 14 MPG pulling boat with tourney load and buying diesel at $4.60/Gal works out to $1117 in travel fuel cost and that is just destination and back. Add a week of trailering and driving around the tourney site and you burn another tank so add $130 to the above and your around $1250 in pickup fuel..So much for the $831 dollars earned in payout..

[FAT LADY]

Has sung or is about to sing...Not just tourney fishing, but many similar things in the modern day American way of life. Buying cheap stuff from overseas turns out isn't so cheap afterall.

Local tourneys are the only thing with an ROI and if nothng else they can be fun for all! Talk about getting kicked backwards to grass roots.

Will it ever return to as good as it recently was???

[MN_Moose]

I know it's not the pro side but the am seems to be way down too. A few years ago the winning am would receive a bare bones boat. Now they get a Lowrance? $10,000 vs $1,500???

[Merckid]

Things change man. When you lose two sponsors like Lund and Mercury things are bound to change.

But what I laugh about is, why do so many people make such a huge deal about the prizes? The prizes should just be a bonus. The real fact is that your fishing with 3 top professionals, now I know not all of them are Kavajecz, Parsons, Gofron, Roach or many other very good sticks but the chance to draw one or even three of these caliber of fisherman should be what it's all about.

If you were to hire three of these guys for a day on the water your looking at, at least $350 a day and add in tips, your looking at well over a $1000 for three days of fishing. Your paying what $350-450, I can't remember the entry fee to fish and be around these guys for three days is what this should be about. The learning that comes from this is invaluable, this is what fishing as a co-angler should be about if you ask me.

So the next time you look to fish a professional tournament as a co-angler, think about the reasons why you want to do this. If your only in it for the prizes, then move on but if your there to learn and a chance to fish with a guy like Kavajecz, Parsons and many others, I'd highly suggest it!

[Brain Washed]

I see your still brainwashed by the idea of fishing with the legends. Most good guides I know will put you on fish, teach you how to catch them, clean them for you and provide your lunch for $250. Then the next day you can go out in your own boat and have a great time on your own. The incentive is no longer there for the pro am format in the PWT admit it.

[brad b unlogged]

Guides take you to community spots where they KNOW you will catch fish. Tournament anglers take you (hopefully) to spots where you have a chance to catch the best fish in the system.

[Merckid]

Brad B,

You've got that right. When fishing with guides, there fishing spots that get beat on day in and day out. A guides job is just to put you on fish.

Fishing as a co-angler, there fishing ways that you might not be accustomed to fishing. For example, trolling lead core is a technique done a lot on these trails. But a lot of people have never trolled with lead core. The whole purpose behind doing one of these events is to learn new techniques and to fish with some of the best fisherman in the world.

Then to be honest, if your not in it to possible have the chance to fish with a guy like Parsons or Kavajecz, then don't do one of these tournaments. I would say 95% of people fish these tournaments to learn and the chance to fish with some of the best walleye fisherman in the world.

Most people do these tournaments to lesson the learning curve and to learn more about a certain body of water, not for the prizes. The prizes are a very nice bonus non the less, but if I didn't already know all the walleye pros like I do I sure in the heck wouldn't give a darn about prizes. If I won awesome, but if not, no big deal to me.

[Merckid]

Brain Washed,

One other thing, if you want prizes, save the money that you would spend on fishing one of these tournaments and go buy the prize that you hope to win.

If your just all about the prizes, put your money somewhere else, a pro doesn't need a guy like you in the boat, especially one trying to make a living at this game.

[Tony Shirley]

Well said

[brain washed]

Mr. Brain Washed?

Guiding fees in Minnesota are averaging about $450/day and rarely includes lunch. It's been years since it was $250 a day. Many guides are getting $470 or more a day--no lunch nor prizes of any value! So--PWT's $350 as well as FLW co-angler fees ARE a good deal.

Who's brain washed?

[walleyebry]

If I was fishing the pro side of these tournaments, I sure wouldnt want a co whos out for just a fun day on the water. Every bite could be the one to help propel me to the top of the field. Fished last couple of years in the Mn. FLW walleye league as a boater and can tell you that having a co who is as serious about winning as you are goes a long way. With the costs of tournament expenses for both the co and the pro, it would be cheaper for the co to find a launch or a charter to relax, instead of having the stress of the weather and conditions and the competition to deal with. I am fishing the co side of the FLW Tour this year and have had some boaters that are just doing this for fun. Must be nice to have money to piss away.

Walleyebry#993

[Brain Washed 2]

Agreed, the Co-angler learning experience on the PWT is certainly great. However that experience has become pretty much equal to what you will get on the FLW Walleye Tour now days. In addition to the potentially great learning experience you will be paid in cash as a Co-angler with the FLW. This does help you to recoup some of your expenses. Add to that a free entry fee championship for 50 qualifying co-anglers with a hefty co-angler cash payout. So who is the one Brain Washed?

[sprow]

you talk about good sticks, just about everyone on the circuit has some good sticks cause its all family and a networking system these days. For the new PWT'er to make it these day is prolly next to none wont due to the networking that goes along

i have fished many times as an AM had seen it everyday i was out on the water. family members, friends, and the little hand signals. LOL

[You missed something]

THink you may have forgotten in one of the tourneys the co has the ability to compete up to 4 days.

Oh and not only that but compete all year and qualify for a no entry national championship.

Is that a little something to spark the competitive juices???

[Juls]

:offtopic:

The topic is about payouts.

If you want to rehash the networking subject AGAIN, please start another thread.

Thanks,
Juls

[MN_Moose]

I agree with all the reasons given for fishing the PWT as a co angler. The reasons given are exactly why I did it a few years ago. I had no grand delusion of winning. I was hoping to finish in the top half (which I failed to do).
I only pointed out the difference in grand prize to show, "Hey, Where's all that money going?"

[mnjimcarp]

As a past competitor, I am extremely impressed with the dedication and commitment to the sport when I see these guys still heading out and trying to win in the PWT. I am not sure how smart it is when adding and subtracting, however; nonetheless I admire these guys for their commitment. For some of you, it doesn't suprise me that you don't understand - particularly if you havn'e been at the wheel at game time and looked around and observed the fellow competitors. The die hards remain and they need to be "admired" for their level of commitment. Many of these guys have worked hard and secured the necessary sponsors or have put themselves in this position by having similar dedication and commitment to their professional lives. Good job guys. Fish on.

[Diggler]

I have fished the first two as a co-angler in the PWT and my draw was some well known guys and some newbies to the PWT on the pro level. Funny thing is, my Rookie in the first tourney was my best weight and my buddy drew him for Bull Shoals and had his best weight. He doesn't network (that I know of)and had no hand signals to share with anybody. Not everyone cheats or bends rules. Sure, as a co-angler I hope to have a pro with the best info out there, but on the other hand, guys without the help tend to work harder to figure out the bite. I learned as much with names I didn't know as i did with the big names of the sport. Would I love to draw Parson's, yes, but either way it's been a blast. I do my best to help out and assist in every way I can in the boat and hope that I was the best co they drew for the event. There is no guide service that I have experienced that compares to this. Plus the energy is insane and most of the guys are a lot of fun. The prizes are a bonus and to be honest, it's nice to know that you are getting something this year no matter where you finish.
To the pro's that read this, keep up the good work. I know times are tough, but it's you guys that are still fishing that are gonna help the sport survive. The costs are high, but for the ones that love it, it's addictive. As a fan of the sport, I appreciate the fact that you are out there still getting at it. Good Luck!

[catch 22]

But you only win the big bucks if you run an insanley expensive boat and a forgiegn motor

[Foreign]

Like a Chinese made Mercury or a Wisconsin made Evinrude?

[WalleyeWiz11(unlogged)]

I am a guide here on Lake Erie.I fish from the Michigan waters of the Lake as far east as Lorain. I have clients that love to trophy hunt as compared to just catch fish.So all guides do not fish the local hot spots. You would be surprised how many calls I get leading up to the big tournaments coming to the lake on where the big fish are and if i want to prefish with them to show them some hotspots.So all guides are not the same.
Capt`n Dwayne
WalleyeWiz Guide Service

[Mark Broderick]

Well said Jim !!

[Lower Numbers]

Another reason the payouts were so low is the size of the field only being 56. If they would have filled to 120 boats, the payouts would have been higher.

[BoB SLusher]

AIM will be taking over the PWT Next Year if a main Sponsor does not come forward.FYI. Or my Name is not BoB the Beer Man Slusher

[Willy 549]

AIM has nothing to do with the PWT. We are a seperate entity owned by fisherman and building our own circuit. It would not be in our best interest to own the PWT.

[Deep Throat]

That would be pure speculation and innuendo. That would also NOT be in the best interest of tournament fishermen in the long run.

Competition is good for all of us.

[Fish_on]

A lot of competition wouldn't necessarily be good in this economic environment. With two major pro circuits, both would probably survive. Three major pro circuits? Possibly only one would survive. If AIM is really not even considering buying the PWT, as you say, then they are not doing due diligence in their business endeavor.

I would think they are looking very hard at that as one of the viable options. At least they should be or should have.

[Deep Throat 2]

Would you buy a used and possibly outdated 1999 Chevy pick up for $85,000.00? I doubt it.
I also suspect if the price and terms had been right the PWT would have been bought a long time ago and not by AIM.
My gut feeling is that AIM is working hard towards accomplishing their original goals. Give them time.

[jzme]

I've fished a few PWT's and FLW's on the am side. While I have had a few that were towards the bottom of the standing (and you could easily see why), I learn something new from each and every one of them. That's why I fished them. Where else can you pay $375 and have three experienced fisherman take you to there BEST spots each day? For sure not from any guide.

As for AIM, I guess I don't quite understand the difference between a business owning a circuit and some actual anglers. In both cases someone's invested money and wants a return on their investment. So, while it may sound good, isn't it just another group of people wanting to make money off of a tourney? In one case it's the stockholders of a corporation and in the other the fisherman owners. In one case you have an unbiased corp that owes none of the anglers anything making decisions. In the other you have a few owners that are also fishing it making the decisions. The idea sounds good, but are they really going to make things better?

I don't know the people who run any of these or the investors in AIM. I'm just a person who owns a few businesses who likes to fish and when I step back and take a look at this I wonder what the difference really is.

[jzme]

I've fished a few PWT's and FLW's on the am side. While I have had a few that were towards the bottom of the standing (and you could easily see why), I learn something new from each and every one of them. That's why I fished them. Where else can you pay $375 and have three experienced fisherman take you to there BEST spots each day? For sure not from any guide.

As for AIM, I guess I don't quite understand the difference between a business owning a circuit and some actual anglers. In both cases someone's invested money and wants a return on their investment. So, while it may sound good, isn't it just another group of people wanting to make money off of a tourney? In one case it's the stockholders of a corporation and in the other the fisherman owners. In one case you have an unbiased corp that owes none of the anglers anything making decisions. In the other you have a few owners that are also fishing it making the decisions. The idea sounds good, but are they really going to make things better?

I don't know the people who run any of these or the investors in AIM. I'm just a person who owns a few businesses who likes to fish and when I step back and take a look at this I wonder what the difference really is.

[Jim Tunney]

Mmjimcarp

Here Here.
Couln't possible said better.
Some dont' get it or don't want to.

"Looney Tunes"
><<<<*>

[Fish_on]

You appear to be stating two things. One that the PWT is old and used up and way overpriced. Second that the PWT is and has been for sale and you have seen the numbers and it is overpriced, that's why no one has bought it. How would you know these things?