Heres a new subject for us to kick around. I think everybody is aware that certain species of fish Imprint. That is, come back to the same natal waters they were hatched in from the egg. All the andromonous (spelling?) species, such as Salmon and Steelhead are born with this ability. And even though there is no scientific evidence that walleyes Imprint, I believe they do. I don't think in many cases as strongly as the "Salmo" species do though. Any thoughts on this matter?

Dan,
I don't know if "imprint" specifies a behavior the has a shopping list of criteria, but we all know that they return to spawning areas and run up rivers year after year. If they cannot get to primary spawning areas, they can be opportunists and find other areas as well. Or can reabsorb their eggs as last resort. IF imprint means returning to the "spot on the spot" and will bet that someone has read an Infish article or the like that will elaborate on this discussion.
I do know that they all have a good imprint of my boat and pheromones that they avoid like the plague.
Take care,

Jim.
You may be one of those guys with to much L-Serin on your hands:-). But by imprint, I mean specific watersheds, streams and rivers. I also believe there is such a thing as open water walleyes and a (lets say) river strain. I believe some of the walleyes on Saginaw Bay stay in the bay all their lives. Live, eat, spawn and die there, without entering a river system. Most do migrate to spawn in the spring, yet I believe I've caught what I call (river cigars). Fish that stay in the river system all their lives. Brown, skinny little dinks that I've caught in the middle of summer, when the water is just above boiling.
Our hatchery program on the Bay has historically gathered brood eggs from many different places. Muskegon River, Lake Erie and fianlly the Tittabawassee River these past 6 or 8 seasons. And If you look back on what the catching seasons were like, given the different brood stock places, a trend emerges. Better Bay catch/Better River catch/Better natural recruitment/Better rearing pond recruitment. Most of this is not writen in stone, or has scientific data to support it. Seems this part of our walleye re-establishment equation does not scientifically mean much to Ours, on any DNR agency. And not wanting to give walleyes a thinking personality myself, I've seen them running rivers so shallow, that imprint instinct alone has to be their only drive. Fact is, we as common fishermen can only speculate, and never truly know.

Capt Dan:

This is from the "ask the biologist" section at walletes unlimited. For what it's worth:

Fort Pecker-
Walleye fry and fingerlings are stocked into Fort Peck at many, many locations throughout the Dry Arm and the main lake. The Fort Peck fisheries crew dedicates considerable time and energy into dispersing stocked walleye, including planting many by boat. On the main lake, they are stocked as far upstream as Snow Cr.

No, typically stocked walleye don't return to spawn at the location where they were stocked. Walleye don't imprint to areas like salmonids do. Instead, it is suspected that the fidelity they often exhibit to certain areas (spawning, feeding, wintering) is learned behavior, made stronger by repeated trips to those specific spots.

Fish Bio

Mrbreeze.
Seems if they were stocked, they never had a chance to imprint at all. Unless the rearing/hatching facility used the same fresh water as in the reservoir/lake/river they were going to be planted in. Salmon and Steelhead imprint only after they hatch in a certain water source, but well before they smolt out of that particular river/lake system. I totally agree that walleye have the learned behavior ability though. I'd like to see data that actually tags a sample number of walleyes in certain waters and fallows through with the study as to just where they return. But, good work on finding what you did. See if you can shake more specific info out of these guys. Inquiring minds want to know.

WOW! This is some discussion and I can't wait to read more!

I know that here in Iowa the river strain of walleye spawned by the DNR are returned to rivers and lake strains to lakes. The DNR has found this decreases mortality in the fry and fingerlings. Sticky part comes in resevoirs where a mix is as good as anything else because some then can spawn in the res. and some can head up the rivers creeks and streams to take care of business. I also would say an educated guess is that wallyees do tend to return to similar habitats to where they spawned. Some 'sippi wallys run to the dams and some only as far as the first rocky cover above their favorite wingdam... unusual environmental conditions can throw a wrench in the works though, floods, drought, unseasonably cool or warm spring weather, can all create unusual spawning locations etc. Chuckles

Out in the west, Ft. Peck included, water levels vary drastically from spawning season to spawning season. It is impossible for the fish to return to their previous spawning areas due to no water being present some, years. It does appear the fish tend to head to a same general vicinity each year, however.
I think it works like this: The women go find a cool place to nest..the guys come snoopin around lookin for chicks...and BADDA-BING.
:-)

Here's some more info that you can chew on while deciding. I've helped net reservoir walleyes here in Iowa during the spring when the DNR is collecting their spawning stock. These walleyes are stocked fish and they typically spawn on the rip rap on the dam faces. Each fish that is brought into the hatchery during this process is tagged with an I.D. # before being released back into the lake. One year they caught a female early in the week that was still green (eggs not ripe to be stripped yet). They held her for most of the week, but she wasn't making any progress on being ready to spawn so they released her at the upper end of the lake. The very next night she was caught again in the same net she was originally caught in after swimming the entire length of the lake. Imprinting or not, they definitly know where they're going within a body of water (at least in this case).

Thanks Lunker.
I to helped our DNR take eggs 3 springs ago on the Tittabawassee, and we caught fish already taged years before that, that they continually catch in the same place year after year. I'm not sure its because of imprinting, but think of the possibilities if the DNR agencies new for sure they did imprint. Knowing that the walleyes you plant wouldn't end up on a translake journey out of state looking for home. Or specifically target rivers with the more (Walleye Friendly) spawning environment, for more maximum natural production.

The Pere Marquette River in Michigan has one of the best Salmon and Steelhead runs in the State. 95% of the Salmon and about 75% of the Steelhead are naturally reproduced in this river. They have no suplimental plantings, and only a few strays from rivers close by show up with the naturals. This is how the river started to get natural reproduction in the first place. These fish are tougher fighters and in better shape health wise, than any other salmo species I've caught anywhere on the great lake and rivers. They don't get that supplimental diet of fish pellets until their 9 to 12 inches long as the hatchery fish get. These guys tough it out in the river for up to 1 1/2 years, smolt out in the lakes as (Street Fighters) and I believe keep this edge on those hatchery sissys until they return, spawn and die. When our DNR was using Muskegon River walleyes for planting Saginaw Bay, we had some of the best River Runs on my records. This continued somewhat after we went to Tittabawassee eggs. That is until this 10 year low water table slowed things down. I'm no fish biologist, and I don't play one on TV... But we fisherman see a lot of things the egg heads in the offices dont see. But we are either not listened to or not believed. Still makes for interesting conversation though.

Dan,
Very cagy. You started out possing a question, and in fact, you a quite a resource yourself!! This is an interesting topic with differing answers premised on various local conditions. Good stuff.
Take care,

Capt:

I was at a meeting with "our" local DNR fisheries guy today - Jim Baker. He indicated that there is not real evidence of walleyes imprinting, however in doing the shock and net studies on the Flint and Tib, the fish tagged from those respective rivers always tend to return. He was not aware of any Tib tagged fish being found subsequently in the Flint, or vice versa.

He did go on to say, jokingly, that if all of the planted fish in Saginaw Bay imprinted, they'd all end up back on the beach in front of Hoyles every spring.

It seems to be more of a learned behavior and comfort factor more than anything else, until hard science can prove otherwise.

I don't want to put too many words in Jim's mouth, so if you want more info you can give him a ring at 989-684-9141

Breeeze

Breeze.
Good info, and I'm somewhat surprised you got that much unproven stocking data speculation out of Mr. Baker. Usually Jim will stick strickly to the book and proven studies data, while kindly treating you as a unknowing layman. I'm sure he's learned this is the best policy after a few butt chewings from the brass, but still seems ellusive to concerned fishermen wanting to know why things have steadily gone down hill (my own opinion) on the Bay since the late 80's. And dont get me wrong, we've had some good odd years for fishing, and I do like Jim as well as Kathy Shroder, who allowed me to get a hands on insight while helping them tag that spring. But the agency itself never deviates from its own, often times, out of date play book. And I can appreciate that working with a set budget often only allows for the basic of agency needs and obligations. I just wish they would allow more room for people wanting to help to do just that.

Thanks Jim.
I guess I did bait the subject some. I've always been a liitle more interested in the whole scheme of things than most. Fishing to me was always a passion, more than a hobby or sport. Its what my Dad, Brother and I did all the time from a very early age. And I was always the one trying to figure out why we were catching fish on the East side of the Lake and not on the West. Its not always an asset believe me.

Can't comment on the politics, Capt, just passing along what I learned.


breeeze

Breeze.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to push you in a corner. I'm the guy you don't want to set by at a DNR's public realtions meeting:-).

I have read that when they trap walleye for egg taking on Muskegon Lake that they keep seeing Muskegon tags from previous years. We catch these fish in Lake Macatawa in the summer so they must imprint and return to spawn up there. I know a lot of guys that caught tagged fish this summer and EVERY one was from Muskegon. I don't know if they tag any in Macatawa so I'm not sure if all of ours stay here and spawn up the Black River. I've heard we get a substantial run but I've always wondered if we lose some to Muskegon due to their cleaner water and bigger flows to pull them in.

Interesting stuff. It seems to me that just with what has already been said that some walleyes do "imprint" and that most would given the opportunity to return to the same spawning grounds every year. It also seems that when walleye numbers increase via good recruitment some fish overflow to the next good spawning area if one is available, increasing the fishery. Nevertheless mother nature plays her role via the weather and water conditions every year. And man has altered both. To manage a wild fishery is to render it less wild, but then our whole environment has been altered less wild by us, the non-fishing community and the fishermen, which includes the DNR. Smart stocking programs should be the norm but there are many factors that come into play and not everything is known or understood about spawning walleye. I have never been accused of doing everything smartly myself. Great topic. I will try and drop in more often.
Good fishing
Andy

Hi,
Here in Ohio in the Maumee Bay and Maumee River we get spawning Walleyes from Lake Huron,Lake St Clair and the Detroit River.Does any one from there catch any of our tagged fish.

Markbodi.
Funny you should bring that up. And I almost hate to mention this after spouting my theories on Imprinting. But fair is fair. Back in 1988 or 1989, I forget precisley now. I caught a walleye with an unusual tag for our nect of the woods/Saginaw Bay. I thought the tag had simply been dis-colored for some reason. I should also mention that the 1988 through 91 fishing seasons were the best summer trolling seasons the Bay has ever seen. Anyway, this tag evetually found its way into the DNR office. Seems this fish was tagged in Lake Erie. Also worth mentioning is what a good friend and our head DNR fish biologost told me. Seem's that particular summer we had a lot of Lake Erie migrants in the Saginaw bay system, as a few more Erie tagged fish were turned in. When pressed about why he thought this was happening, he answered, "over flow". Back then Lake Erie also was going through some "Boom Years". And Saginaw Bays forage fish populations were massive. They simply came up the Detroit and StClair rivers, around the thumb fallowing their noses. Of course this don't mean they didn't head back home to the rivers they may have imprinted in to spawn. That was an impressive journey woulde'nt you say?

I asked Fred Snyder of Ohio Sea Grant this question. Here's his answer:
http://www.sg.ohio-state.edu/discus/
Also, Fred noted the long trips by Erie walleyes and yer right Capt. -- the late 80s early 90s were overflow years for Erie :-)))

Bob Oh.
What a great site. You Da' man. Thats really good stuff. And I guess we can officially lay this thread to rest. Walleyes DO Imprint. Yet more info I'll file away in the Ol'Pumpkin, to make our local DNR guys shake their heads at the next meeting.:-).

Here's The answer to my Imprint question BobOh dug up, for those not wanting to fallow the link trail.



By Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant Extension (63.237.157.167 - 63.237.157.167) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 12:05 pm:


Hi there Bob,

I've seen a fair amount of research on imprinting and migration among salmon species; while similar research is lacking for walleye, ODNR tagging programs have shown that walleye return to spawn on the very same stream or reef on which they hatched. So it's likely that the same types of physical and chemical cues that help salmonids are at work in walleye.

The young salmonid fry and smolts in the streams produce a pheremone (a chemical used for communication) that is expelled in their feces. These pheremones drift downstream to the sea or lake, leaving a trail for adult salmonids to follow. Some old research from Alaska found that salmon which had had their nostrils plugged and then were transported back downstream from their spawning areas often couldn't choose the correct branch of the stream to return to the beds. Those with unplugged nostrils had no problem. The fish appear to recognize the pheremones coming from their own particular spawning stock, brining them back to their home streams and spawning areas. Natural smells produced in the rivers also are likely to play a role.

How do salmon cross oceans and find the right stream? One thing that appears to help is the presence of tiny iron oxide crystals in their brains. These crystals are affected by Earth's magnetic field, giving the fish a sort of internal compass. Nothing to it, Matey; we'll just take a magnetic bearing 'till we're close, then sniff our way in!

I'm not aware of similar research being done on walleye, but tagging studies have shown they can descend from Lake Huron and find the riffles on the Maumee River, or swim from Erie, PA unerringly to Crib Reef. It's likely that similar forces to those affecting salmon are at work in walleye.

Here's a very Happy Holiday wish to you and all our readers!!!

By Fred Snyder, Ohio Sea Grant Ext. (63.237.157.167 - 63.237.157.167) on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 12:11 pm:


Oops...

That study in which salmon nostrils were plugged was not done in Alaska. It was done by Wisby and Hasler in Washington State's Issaquah Creek in 1954.

I have caught tagged Erie eyes on Lake St. Clair often. I have also caught tagged St. Clair eyes 3 miles from where they were tagged years before. One fish was 3 years older and only grew 1/2 inch. Which leads me to a new strain of thought. The bigger fish, the ones that keep growing, seem to roam farther too perhaps in search of bigger prey. Or is it because they spend most of their time moving and are more difficult to catch thus allowing them to grow bigger? Food for thought.

Andy

Ipro.
I can only speak on the Saginaw Bay walleyes growth. For many years our walleye were superseding the norm. Our 10 pounders were on the average of 2 to 5 years younger than in most other watersheds. Mainly, because of the abundance of forage. Rather this is still true today, I dont know. I'm thinking it is, as we still have not reached the walleye carrying capacity (according to our DNR) of the Saginaw Bay.

As for where bigger fish hang out and eat, I know this varies on each certain body of water. There are many variables I think one considers when searching especially for (THE BIG ONES). Some would consider the comfort zones, while others play the structure game. Fact is, walleyes care about one thing, FOOD and lots of it. If this food equation happens to intermix with the other two, that much better. Thats why most of the Pro's head out to deep water mainly when they come here to fish. Our smelt and a lot of other mature prey fish species head deep when the weather and water get's hot. Big walleyes like easy, long lasting meals. Thats not to say all the Biggin's are deep. Many a Pro has broken his own back rolling the deep water dice on the Saginaw.

Ipro.
I can only speak on the Saginaw Bay walleyes growth. For many years our walleye were superseding the norm. Our 10 pounders were on the average of 2 to 5 years younger than in most other watersheds. Mainly, because of the abundance of forage. Rather this is still true today, I dont know. I'm thinking it is, as we still have not reached the walleye carrying capacity (according to our DNR) of the Saginaw Bay.
As for where bigger fish hang out and eat, I know this varies on each certain body of water. There are many variables I think one considers when searching especially for (THE BIG ONES). Some would consider the comfort zones, while others play the structure game. Fact is, walleyes care about one thing, FOOD and lots of it. If this food equation happens to intermix with the other two, that much better. Thats why most of the Pro's head out to deep water mainly when they come here to fish. Our smelt and a lot of other mature prey fish species head deep when the weather and water get's hot. Big walleyes like easy, long lasting meals. Thats not to say all the Biggin's are deep. Many a Pro has broken his own back rolling the deep water dice on the Saginaw.

"Only Jesus Guaranteed fish before the trip out"

Capt: Dan.

A few years ago the DNR in the winnabago hatchery did a study on this and found the the walleye that hatched in the wolf river also returned to the wolf river to spawn and the walleyes that hatched in the fox river returned to the fox river to spawn.Also there were walleyes who never left the lakes and spawned in the trib. of the lakes! Of course when there is very low water conditions this changes there pattern and genetic instict.There are more than a few enviromental things that must occur for succesfull spawn to occur so this is just one of them! Fish -on RLS