This is the most puzzeling thing to me about walleye behavior. Seems most every other fish specie, including bass, pike, trout, whatever, can be caught on your basic spoon, crankbait, spinnerbait or plug. The color or size of all these lures may matter on certain days, but basically a red and white daredevil will catch Pike from Saskatchuan to Florida. You would think that anything that even remotely looks like a tasty baitfish, would get both the walleyes attention and preditor response. But favorite walleye crankbaits, and I'm talking mainly crankbaits here, seem to have a location specific preference.

Example: I recently sold a whole bunch of new/used Berkley Frenzys to a guy out west near Montana. He successfuly uses them for walleyes and they work very well out there. Yet, those same Frenzys and many other (look like they'll work) plugs, have made their way from the front, to the back, and then finally to the "swap board" in my walleye arsinal. They just dont work for walleyes on the waters I fish. Many other lures, but mainly the crankbaits types, have made the same trip to the auction block. Why? Most have great action, great size, great natural baitfish color patterns. You could not match the hatch any better. But they dont ring the walleyes bell. In the end, is it truly all about size? Gimme some feed back.

Thats an excellent topic. Maybe it has to do with geographic location to some extent. To add to your question, it puzzles me why a hot bait a few years ago for me hasnt produced a single walleye for a long time. It used to be the first bait I would go to. Now I cant buy a fish with it. Maybe the forage is changing, I know the water clarity has. But then there are old standbys that always seem to do well, year after year.

On perchjerkers comments on hot lures going cold . I've heard it suggested that maybe fishing causes a kind of not so natural selection process where fish with certain characterics or preferences are culled from the population .

Man, what an excellent theory mudpuppy.
I guess if you believe that fish can develope a learned behavior, and I do, why not a learned behavior response to certain types of forage from one generation to another. Man, that gave me goose bumps.

Yea, that is real interesting. It doesnt really explain why some lures always produce, unless maybe the ones that are hot for a while fade off, those are borderline, and the ones that stay in the top drawer are so close to what walleyes want, they all will hit it.And the lure I was using was not well known at all, they were kinda hard to find, so its not like I caught every fish in the lake that would fall for it. I dont think we will ever really know whats going on. But then, thats not so bad...The learned behaviour thought might explain it, though.

Fishermen discriminate especially out west. Some walleye suspend more than others. Out here we are mostly bottom oriented. I rarely see people go for suspended walleye. So by "harvesting" the bottom oriented walleye we are helping to assure the survival of suspending walleye. There are several other northwest guys on here would like to know if they have seen anything different? Can survival tactics be handed down? Another question, is there a leader of the pack when walleye form a school?

wa_walleye.

No offense my friend. But you may have missed the jest of my thread. I was looking for the uncanny reasons why walleyes discriminate/prefer one crankbait type over another on certain bodies of water.

In the course of a day, they can change from one color and or baitstyle to another or of course one or more baits may be hot as all heck for a day or two. Why? Every theory I come up with seems to meet a cold front:). One color bait too slow and they won't hit it. Speed it up and whamo. Some fish in a school will bite and others don't. How many out of a school are ready to bite and how many could care less? Maybe speed causes a reaction bite, at times, even if they are not hungry. It seems that folks are catching fish running steelhead speeds as much as not. This winter I am going to clean out all the no-fish baits from last season ( Cabelas and Gander will love me for this)and restock. I believe that it is either scent or sight that reminds them of something edible. The tought part is making it either too easy not to pass up meal or so quick they must react out of habit. Of course it has to have the right flash and wobble......... of forget it!!!!
Take care,

I may have missed the jest so here is what prompted my question "I guess if you believe that fish can develope a learned behavior, and I do, why not a learned behavior response to certain types of forage from one generation to another. Man, that gave me goose bumps."

Learned behavior like suspending (is it learned or natural). Are there genetic pre dispositions to make some walleye more apt to suspend vs others? Like how bears fish with similiar styles to their parents. Also does this make it so that we selective harvest bases on our method of fishing? Just wondering???

Your comment about Berkley Frenzys becoming one of the castaway luresis similar to my experience.The fall of 2000 the 10' Frenzy deep diver in perch was the hottest lure on Sakakaweja for my friends as well as myself,nothing else would even come close.For 6 weeks of fantastic fall fishing Frenzys were the ticket.Since then I have caught just a couple of walleyes on them,Reef Runners take the top spot.Then I tried Frenzys on Lake Trout on Fort Peck in November and WOW the magic was back.I noticed that on another thread that Jim was cleaning house,I am also tempted to do the same but all too often when the bite was slow a seldom used lure\color has put fish in the boat.I carry at least 20 colors of Reef Runners,when the goto colors\sizes then its time to "roll the dice",eventually another lure will entice a hit.For whatever reasons rotating through my favorites produces the most fish.Too further add to the confusion I and my partner will go our seperate ways pulling cranks trying to locate active fish,our equipment\rigging\line\lures will be exactly the same once we have determined the working pattern and several occasions one of us will out fish the other by a substantial amount(really PO's the unlucky one) everything is identical except his boat is 3 ft shorter than mine and we go to great lengths to duplicate each other in attempts to understand what walleyes are keying in on,luck is sometimes our only answer.Fustrating when you are preparing for a tournament.My results are similar to Jim's,color preference does change during the course of the year.
I would really like to figure out a workable crankbait presentation for Fort Peck where walleyes just don't care for cranks like their brothers and sisters in Sakakaweja(Missouri River feeds both systems),if a Peck walleye can chase down and eat a 8" Cisco why not a crankbait?
Mike

I think there are probably many variables as to why fish go cold on some lures. A couple things that came to the top of my head are:

1) Perhaps, how a lure looks to the walleye has changed? Walleye Express, I know you fish the bay. I think you could testify to how the water has changed over the past 20+ years, zebra mussels, better pollution laws, etc. Now a smaller bait can be seen, where it once may have taken something larger to get attention.

2) Our sport isn't a well kept secret anymore, it gets plenty of media attention and it's profitable to market to the public. Selective harvest is something many practice now. All walleye were once considered table fare and selective harvest was practiced by a select few in our Grandfather's day. Could walleye learn to avoid lures after feeling the sting of hooks and then released? Ducks and geese get educated just a few weeks after the start of the season.

Interesting topic, one of those things that most have recognized, but often unable to explain.

Wa_Walleye.

I believe when walleye suspend they are doing so for one of two reasons, food or comfort. Most times though, they are at the level with the most forage activity, actively looking for prey. This is probably a combination of both the learned bahavior and their own natural instincts to fallow their preys comfort zones in the water column. And to say these fish could be selectivly harvested out of the system would be erroneous. As the ones staying on the bottom and not suspending are/may be simply not in the feeding mood. I dont belive they would be of any different strain and in danger of being selectivley brought to extinction. Whew, I glad thats over. PS. Hope this finds it way on the thread, as my automatic post recogniition isn't working for some reason.

Very Good deductions Sib.
And the type of responses/answers I went fishing for. And I'm with you on the smaller baits being seen and producing better now that the mud has turned to gin on the Bay. That may be because the forage itself has become smaller. Either to make room for the vast amount of new invaders, or simply because the strain on the food chain is making it so. I used to see some giant shads in the rivers in the fall in years past. A time where they should be at their biggest, as they would be adults. But the biggest shad now is about 2 1/2 inches long during this time of year.

Good thing all walleyes are conditioned to take jigs in the mouth.
Go Fishing
Dan

Mike,
Then add to one's misery that you get that one lure that seems to be tuned a little different than the others, or is it the latent scent of an atttractor left on the bait from another outing???? I have friends that don't fish and I can not even get them in the boat. Too boring. I try to explain how busy and cerebral it gets, but their eyes glass over in the first 30 seconds. Oh if someone would only understand:).
Take care,
Jim Ordway

Jim;
I know exactly what you mean,my friends and family think I take walleye fishing way to serious for them,but,becoming proficent at anything requires hard work and dedication,I really enjoy the challenge.The off season is too long,however the anticapation is worth it.Besides,there are new lures and equipment that I need to purchase,my style of shopping!
Take Care;
Mike

What I want to know is why everyone catchs eye's on Hot & Tots and I can't get a single strike on one? I have even had people in the same boat catch fish on them, but not me? Part of the problem might be that I have no faith in them and soon change back to my favorite's?

I have experienced individual lures that didn't work. Once a friend and I were fishing identical shad raps and I outfished him 15:1 one morning. It was pretty generic stuff, cast and reel, no significant technique to it. Switched to a different rap (same size, color, etc), he caught fish. When watching the lures run, we couldn't tell a difference between the two, but the fish obviously could.

Jim

To answer your question, I don’t think walleye discriminate.
Like most of us in our younger days, walleye only have two things on their minds, to reproduce the species and something to eat. I THINK what we are experiencing is changing conditions such as water clarity, lake levels, changes in forage (bait) fish, etc that make a bait that once looked like something to eat, now look like something to be avoided. Up to a few years ago my go to bait was the 1/4 oz hot n tot. Now I can’t remember when I caught my last walleye on one.

Other possibilities are;
1.The walleye are in cahoots with the bait manufactures.
2.The manufacturer representatives who frequent these boards have brain washed us where we will believe anything we read and after hearing the glowing reports of new bait, we loose faith in baits that have worked in the past.
3.Fishing is more luck than skill and ours has changed.

Regards, Dean

Fishing Lake Erie aboard "DENIED"
(I don't represent any manufacturer or supplier "I pay my own way")

Golly gee Dean, I think you have helped me narrow the choices. I'll go with 2 and 3 :). This is one of those topics that we have and will be discussing until we meet our maker.
Take care,

I have a theory. I've seen baits go out of style on my home water lately and here's why I think it happens. I have seen from year to year that the fish tend to spend their time at "specific" levels in the water column each year. For example , last year a lot of my marks were 20-25 feet down. This year they were 25-32 feet down. When you combine the fact that we have a tendencey to be repetitious about the depths we run our baits and the fact that each bait has a different running depth you may just simply be missing the mark.I know it sounds simplistic but the simplest answer is often the right one. That's what Lisa Simpson says anyway.I put this theory to the test this year and dicovered I was right at least on my home water.Honestly I think the issue is human nature more than nature itself. I tried using totally new baits as well this year and actually outperformed the standby's with them. Reason, these baits on average dive deeper than the standbys.

Denied.
I really liked your answers. I'm working on a (Lady luck question) thread. Just haven't laid the fondation yet.

Liked your answer to targa. That (simply missing the Mark) statement could not have rung truer than last year on the Saginaw Bay.

Suspended walleyes are what everybody both hopes and looks for on the Bay. This usually spells hungry, aggressive walleyes and makes both the fishing and catching a lot easier. Towards the end of one tough season last year, I found myself trolling Rattle Tots 180 feet behind the boards in 17 to 23 feet of water and doing very good. Thats very near, if not right down in the mud running them that far back. If somebody would have given me this trolling scenario besides a very good reliable friend, I would have called him stupid and never got in on that action.

All of my fishing is at Lake Erie’s western and central basins, so keep that in mind.
Unfortunately for the folks who only fish Erie a few times a year or even every weekend, the odds of hitting the "Great" fishing days are slim. I can stay there from early April until the weather runs me off in October, so I can afford to set and wait for the good days. I eventually get about the same number of "Great" days each year, but I am there waiting on them to happen. Too many folks judge how good or bad a lake is on a few trips per season and this is wrong.

The other point I would like to make is that no one program (bait, speed, depth, etc.) works every time. You have got to present multiple presentations and be willing to change regularly until you find out what the fish want, not what you want them to hit. The first 20 years I fished Lake Erie we drifted. I never thought of trolling until we found that catching walleye by drifting was getting more difficult every year. Once we started trolling it seems the "go to" program changes a couple of times per season. I smile when folks say got a dozen of one type of bait and you won't need anything else, it just does not work that way any more.

This is on of my favorite subjects and I get into it further on my helpful hints file on my web site.
Regards, Dean

Fishing Lake Erie aboard "DENIED"

(I don't represent any manufacturer or supplier "I pay my own way")


(I don't represent any manufacturer or supplier "I pay my own way")