Motor/Tranny/Gear combo assistance

[AquaMan]

OK, A while back I told you all that I was in the market for a new truck. I have narrowed the field down and need some better explaination about the gears.

There are several options that have me a little confused in terms of my real needs and performance.

Chevy Silverado 2500HD SuperCab with these options:
Vortec 8.1L V8 340HP 5 Spd Allison Electronic Auto with OD
3.73 or 4.10 with or with out Limited Slip

Vortec 6.0L V8 300HP 4 Spd Auto with OD
3.73 or 4.10 with or with out Limited Slip

or....

Ford XLT F250 SD CrewCab with these options:
6.8L V10 310HP 4 Spd Electronic Auto with OD
3.73 or 4.10 with or with out Limited Slip or the 4.30

Triton 5.4L V8 260HP 4 Spd Electronic Auto with OD
3.73 or 4.10 with or with out Limited Slip

It will be used to take the boats, sleds or camper on trips with family or friends to verious locations. I average about 12000 miles a year on these trips. The rest is driving to and from work and decking in the summer. I tow a bobcat maybe (MAYBE) 500 miles in the summer and have done so easily with the Suburban AND the Exploder Sport (Not very fast with the Sport mind you).

I typically tow at 65mph but have been known to boggie at about 75mph on the right highways with the boats or sleds. ;-)

Looking more toward the center of the power vs economy issue then to one or the other.

I have test driven both and they each have their pros and cons that I don't want to debate, but would like help landing on the right motor, tranny and rear gear combo for what I do/need.

Obviously the bigger the HP, the better towing, but what if I went with the smaller motor and changed the gearing, etc? Which gear provides what benefits/shortfalls, etc. If I have 4WD, do I need Limited Slip Diff? Pros/Cons?

I hope this makes sense. Not trying to be difficult, but the dealers seem to know less about this then I do. They refer to a basic towing guide and that is not good enough. But you guys are driving these everyday.

Thanks.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It all begins and ends at the water's edge...

[Big Fish]

AquaMan,you have a problem common to many of us,that is the trade off between economy and towing ability. The one thing I have learned in the last 30+ years of running pickups is that too small or under powered is always a disappointment. I would lean towards the bigger engine and the taller gearing (like the V-10 and 373s). That combo will pull like mad and still get almost the economy of the smaller engine, especially if you have to gear the small one lower. Feel free to E-mail me if you want to discuss this further. cw

[jon]

Aquaman,
I second the above post. Get the 373's and the V10, you will actually get better gas mileage with that than with the 5.4. The 5.4 is great on a F 150 but the superduty runs a lot nicer with the V10.

[Dave in Mpls]

Were it me, I'd opt for the Chevy Silverado 2500HD SuperCab with the Vortec 8.1L V8 340HP 5 Spd Allison Electronic Auto with OD, 3.73 rear end with limited slip and the tow package. Can't really see getting a 3/4 ton truck with the 6 liter when you could get the 8.1 liter.

Regards

[TBO/MN]

YUP!!! What Dave said..;-)

Are you selling the Sub, or trading it in? She is a good looker!!

Best of luck with your choice.

Good Fishin'
TBO/MN

[AquaMan]

Trade or sell, but she is gone shortly.

Are ya thinkin ya might want it TBO? :-)

Actually, I would not like to sell this rig, or any rig for that matter, to friends, etc. I have been in sales for 15 years and always get a bad feeling when something is wrong. Not to say I don't feel bad with any bad deals, the problem is that I give my friends and family such good deals that it leaves little or no room for repair costs. I end up eating the problem everytime. (NO PC's FOR SALE HERE!)

Besides, I could not, in good concious, sell this to you TBO. I think the tranny is heading south. Not for sure, but I get a lot of winning at highways speeds and the headlights are still FUBAR. Beyond that, the trade-in at this point is about $8800 and it looks to be the least offensive..if you know what I mean.

BUT....if you want is at that price and are willing to accept the risk with the agreement that you will not now, or ever, complain about the deal...have at 'er.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It all begins and ends at the water's edge...

[AquaMan]

So Dave, 'splain the gears to me. 4.10 means what, exactly?

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It all begins and ends at the water's edge...

[REW]

I 2nd Daves post on the Chev and motor combo.

I have a couple of friends that have had the same delimma - one went with the ford and one went with the Chev.

I have ridden in both, and both do a wonderful job, of single passenger hauling, family outings, as well as towing boats and other toys.

Neither person has had much problem with the vehicle. Any minor problems were quickly fixed on both vehicles by their dealers.
I have to admit that both vehicles had similar rids, quiet, smooth and very nice.

The thing that is the deciding factor for me is the fuel economy. I don't understand why I see the difference - but I have to say that with many different folks driving many different vehicles - is seems that similar model Chevs seem to always have a fuel econom advantage over fords. I may be seeing an aberation, but it certainly is the case for all of the folks that I have polled over the last few years.

From a technology standpoint - I think that you have to give a bit of an edge to the Chev. Not much, but this model chev is about a 2 year newer design than the ford. Not that there is anything bad with the ford, it is just that the chev has a bit newer design.

As far as the 3.73 or the 4.10 mean - is simply is the gear ratio of the rear end. i.e. how many times does the drive shaft rotate for a single rotation of the tire. You will see that the more fuel economy ratio - i.e. the 3.73 drive shaft will turn about 1/2 fewer times for each turn of the wheel. This translates to a couple hundred lower engine rpm at 65 mph. This translates to less fuel burned - assuming that the engine has enough torque to pull the load.

Conversely, if the load is heavy, the 4.10 rear end allows the engine to rev up a bit more, develop more power, not lug as much, allow the transmission to stay in overdrive or high gear, with less transmission slipping.

As long as the rig that your pulling is under about 3000 lbs, I would tend to the 3.7 rear end. Remember the rear end ratio is forever, but the amout that you tow, is probably less than 10% of your total mileage. There is obviously no need for the 4.10 rear end, for a single or even heavy passenger load - without any thing being towed.

If you are going to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle, it makes total sense to get the limited slip differential. Without limited slip differential, you give up a lot of the potential - get out of the mud - cabability of your 4 wheel drive. With the limited slip differential, if you get into a situation, where there is only one wheel able to get traction - the limited slip will force power to that wheel. Without the limited slip - if you have a wheel in the front and a wheel in the back - that is slipping - you will simply sit and spin and not make progress.

An even nicer option is the "all wheel" drive option that is offered on some rigs. This "all wheel" drive option, combines, not only limited slip differential, between wheels on the same axle, but also employs limited slip differential, between the back and front wheels. The all wheel option, normally also incorporates "on the fly" 4X4 shifting, that is not necessarily the case with other types of 4 wheel drive.

Take care and enjoy your new rig - what ever the choice.

REW

[eyewitness]

Not sure what Ford offers in the way of running in an "all wheel drive" option, but I know I use the one in my new Chev all the time in the winter months. You can travel down the highway pretty comfortably with it locked in and not really sacrifice milage. I'd go with the 3.73 gears and limited slip rearend in one of the two Chev trucks. Personally know of at least 3 guys with the Ford 5.4 that have had nothing but problems with that engine. If your hauling a bobcat the big Chev v8 would be ideal, but the 6L will do everything you want it to. The difference in milage between the 4.11 and 3.73 gearing will probably equate to a couple mile /gal difference (worse for the 4.11) and the 4.11's will really be whining once you get up to the 65-70 MPH range. personally I'd stay away from them unless you plan on hauling heavy equipment all the time (ie: contractor work). No matter what you get you're gonna be steppin' up big time, hope you enjoy!

[Bill R]

I have the F150 7700 (heavy half) with the 5.4L triton and 3.73 gears. I have a camper on the truck and pull my boat and get about 12MPG. Empty I get around 15 - 16+ depending on the speed. I don't think you will give up too much on mileage with the 3.73 I didn't notice much difference from my old truck but the power difference with the 3.73 was amazing. I pull in overdrive with no problems unless it's really windy or lots of hills.

[TBO/MN]

Nope, not really looking for another Suburban, one is enough. Just wondering, hae a couple of friends that may have been interested. Thanks anyway. I hope you get what you want, and it does the job for you.

Good Fishin' Buddy
TBO/MN

[AquaMan]

This is why this board makes the BIG bucks! Thanks alot guys. You have given me exaclty what I was looking for.

It will be the bigger engine with the 3.73 limited slip. Now, Ford or Chevy???? Hahahaha...Just kidding. That is something my wife and I have to figure out.

Best regards to you all.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It all begins and ends at the water's edge...

[espence1]

Hey Aqua

Just made this decision myself this last spring, so I know what you are going thru.

I took the F250 SD CC with the V10 over the 8.1 Chevy for a few reasons:

1) Brand new motor made me a bit nervous. I hear what REW is saying on the new tech angle (as I am usually and early-tech purchaser), but I just couldn't do it on my rig. Ford has been very successfully running their V10 in motorhomes, etc. for some time with good results.

2) Allison tranny. I liked the Allison history, but heard some chat about this tranny not being able to handle the torque that the motor claims to turn. You might want to ask around a bit or surf for more detail on this (though if you believed every neg post out there, you wouldn't purchase anything).

3) Price & dealer. I ordered my F250 from a dealer that had a good rep (my first Ford by the way). By ordering it, I was able to get EXACTLY what I wanted and none of what I didn't. Got a really good price (hold out for $100 over invoice) and it only took about 6wks.

4) None of the local Chevy dealers actually had an HD with the 8.1 & Allison for me to test drive.

5) Spec'd out. The Chevy cost more than a comparable Ford.

I've had mime since the end of April. Almost 20k on it already. Been very happy with it. Tows like a dream. Plenty of room in it. Mileage has acutally pleasantly surprised me.

Towing 17' Tourney Pro boat w/115hp = appx 13.5
Non-towing freeway (80mph) = 12.5 to 14.0 (depends a lot on wind)
Non-towing highway (60mph) = 14.5 to 15.5

Only complaints thus far:
a) wish it had a bigger gas tank
b) 5W20 oil not common enough yet
c) wish I would have done it sooner

Hope this at least gave you some input to add into the mix. Don't know of anyone with the Chev with that setup so I have not heard anything more good/bad about their performance. Best of luck!

[Buckets(Pa)]

what ever you do dont get the 8.1 chevy or the v 10 ford they are gas guzzling pigs you get more for your money with the chevy and ford diesels you will pay for the motor in the gas you save two times over i am getting 23 on the highway with a 2500hd with a duramax with 373 gears the ford we have at work is a f 350 with the v 10 it is terrible on gas just my two cents happy motoring dan

[Pitts]

Aquaman I have a stepfather that is up in years but for about 20 years in a row he would tow his 32' camper down south and set up in the winter to avoid the cold weather. This equals 2 long trips per year and then his normal trailer towing on top of that.
He had to start a HD Chev with 1 ton low geared rearend with a truck 454ci motor. Since he is on in years and does not do the winter trip on a regular basis he opted on his last truck to get the single cab 5X4 with the smallest V-8 Chev made???
Last year he decided to pull his 11,000 lb trailer to Tennesee for a 2 week vacation with my brother with that truck. He had a pull package with the heaviest hitch possible and commented that the truck pulled better than any truck he had ever owned.
1/2 of all your miles are spent not towing anything and just running around. The other 1/2 pulling but just a boat for 2/3rds of that and camper the other 1/3rd just a guess but probably close.
If ya need 4 doors or not go with the HD chev but I would opt for the smaller motor with a normal tranny and pull package unless you intend on getting a camper for the box then go for the bigger package.
I guess I can see your turning traitor to Chev after the problems with the burb it always makes ya think.
I don't think you will go bad with either brand.
Look at your options you may encounter during the life of the truck and let that determine your destiny LUKE :) ( Camper, bigger glass boat, bigger camping trailer, ect).
Good luck in your choice.
Have Fun



Pitts