View Full Version : Thorne Custom Loomis vs. Loomis
Thinking of Legend Elite 63MXF. It appears Thorne, for pretty much the same price as Cabela's will custom make one of these from the Loomis blank. Anyone have any experience with Thorne in this regard and will I benefit from the custom aspect, apart from just the asthetics of thread color, etc.?
Custom rods that have some design characteristic that's not available from factory made rods, or that have thread art as apart of their design are quite worthwhile. But to have a rod custom made without the need of a special characteristic & with no desire for thread art makes no sense. You give up a good factory warrantee on the ready made rod.
WAeyes
03-08-2003, 08:47 PM
A Loomis blank in a Legend Elite? Don't you mean a St. Croix blank?
Thank you and yes, I do mean St. Croix. I was looking at Loomis walleye rods in a catalog when I was on the computer and by the time I realized what I had done it was too late to edit. I think they use a variety of blanks, but my particular interest is in the St. Croix 6'3" MXF. I tend to agree with ETT, just "fishin" to see if anyone has ever used their custom service and whether they felt it was worth it, but hadn't really thought out the warranty side, and don't know Thorne's policy.
france1960
03-09-2003, 06:29 PM
GLO,
I do not have any experience with Thorne Bros. for custom open water rods. I had them custom make me an ice fishing rod. I am happy with it but an ice rod and an open water rods are quite different. I have had Thorne Bros. repair rods over the years and I have bought an awful lot of tackle and equipment from them. Their service is second to none. If you have any questions about anything you can email them or if you are in the Minneapolis area stop in and see them. They are very customer oriented and friendly. Good luck.
Jeff
I have delt with Thorne brothers a lot, and they are some of the nicest and most knowledgable rod builders around.
If you want, they can build a rod for you that is identical to the St. Croix factory rod. If so, there would be little advantage to buying one of their custom rods.
St. Croix has really got it right, when it comes to using the Fugi Concept guide system on their rods. As far as guides and spacing, I expect that the custom rod will be almost identical to the factory rod.
The biggest advantage of the custom rod is the handle. Their custom hidden hood handle makes you to never want another kind of handle.
After they taught me how to build these handles, I either sold or built new handles on all of my spinning rods.
Also, if you want a particular back grip, a particular size to the handle (i.e. diameter) and or particular fore grip, it is easy to specifiy, and they will make it exactly match your specifications.
After they built one for me, I will never have another factory rod.
Your choice.
Take care
REW
Thanks, REW, for the info, I'm pretty sure I'm going to give one a try and had seen pictures, not just on their web site of some different handle designs they offer. I can't believe if there was a defect they wouldn't stand behind it, and am pretty sure I won't have to find out.
Otter
03-10-2003, 11:54 AM
I have a Legend Elite 63MXF and love it. If the Thorne Bros is better, it must be a pretty wicked stick!
Koldfront Kraig
03-10-2003, 12:37 PM
You guys are missing the point. No offense, but if you haven't seen, used or talked to the rod builders at Thorne bros., you are doing them a diservice.
You are right, the blank is the same. It is warrantied. You get the same warrany you would if you bought a rod from the factory. What you also get is better guides, more guides and a better cork handle. They have several ways to make the handle, it's all up to the customer. You get it made the way you want it, to fit you, not the masses.
This is why it's called custom made.
Handmade
03-10-2003, 12:58 PM
Skindog is on the money - you don't want them to make you a St. Croix that they put together but looks like a factory rod. You want to order something that no one else has. That's what custom rods are about. I also make St. Croix rods and I am having a hard time not saying what a rod realy costs but just so you know Thaorne Bros. should be able to do better then catalog prices for a basic rod.
The rod you discribed cost $110.00 for the components and it retails for $290.00 in Cabelas. Sure it cost something to put it together but $180.00 to do it is not right.
RippinPigs
03-10-2003, 01:28 PM
I have both their ice & open water rods. All I can say is... go with them. I agree with Skindog.
And, if you want to save yourself the most money... you can buy all the components you need.... and for $25(I think), they will let you use their shop.... and help you out while MAKING your own rod.
Mattman
03-10-2003, 03:55 PM
The Legend Elite blank alone retails for $126! You've got another $15, minimum in cork. Another $5, minimum for a reel seat. And a set of Fuji SiC's are typically over $30. $110 won't come close to covering a Legend Elite.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have!
Matt Davis
Handmade
03-11-2003, 06:52 PM
To Mattman:
That's what you may pay but I can get everything listed from my supplier for $110.00 That just show's you how much of a mark-up is built into rods. That is also the reason I got into making rods because I found out how much one can save. Sorry for the bad news but it's true.
Mattman
03-12-2003, 05:16 AM
I didn't say that's what I paid. And it's not bad news, I do have a resale license and I buy for wholesale. Because this is a business for me. I'm well aware of what materials cost. I'm also aware that EVERYTHING you buy in life is marked up. That's the way the world works.
That is the retail price, sorry to say. If you're going to quote the retail price of the blank in your post then you should also be quoting the retail price of the components. It's not even close to a fair comparison. And for the guy who is going out to build his first rod, he's going to pay retail. Plain and simple.
And quite honestly, I'm more than a little upset with you undercutting Thorne Brothers. They are a business. It costs them money to turn on the lights you know. They have machinery payments, building payments, payroll, taxes... Who are you to say what they should charge to build a rod. They are professionals with a ton of experience which shouldn't come free. And they are going to put a rod together that will certainly outshine any factory version. What their price is and how they come up with it is their business.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have!
Matt Davis
Handmade
03-12-2003, 10:27 AM
Granted, business is business and everyone needs to make a buck but just because someone can make something cheaper using the same goods doesn't make it wrong. People should be able to shop around and get the best bang for the buck. You should be able to charge what the market will provide. Free enterprise and competition is what helps the little guy.
No need to get the blood presure up on this I was just showing people the facts on rod mark-ups. If you think T. Bros should make 180.00 to put a rod together that's your business.
Mattman
03-12-2003, 10:38 AM
But, is your $110 Legend Elite from "your supplier" a legit, full warranty, St. Croix Legend Elite?
If you are buying your stuff from where I think you are, seconds and blems don't make the grade. St. Croix's rejects can't enter into a discussion about what any legit rod builder pays for their materials.
And, sorry to say, it is standard practice in the rod building industry to charge retail for materials and a labor fee. So, you see, they aren't charging $180 to build a rod. They are charging closer to $100. Which is very going rate.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have!
Matt Davis
Coach
03-12-2003, 12:07 PM
Mattman, if "if's" and "but's" were candy and nuts it would be Christmas every day of the year. How can we base an arguement on assumptions instead of facts. Let it go .
Handmade
03-12-2003, 12:27 PM
Yup, comes in the bag with the little St. Croix sticker, not a second.
I didn't know there was a standard on what a person needed to charge. Most products state "Suggested retail price". Now if they start playing like some companies and "Price Protect" a product then everyone charges the same thing or they can't handle the product. It's the wage the builder charges that pushes the price up.
That leads me to a question on people that are building rods and selling them. How do they warenty a rod, I understand the mfg co. would replace the blank but what about the work put into building it?
Mattman
03-12-2003, 12:45 PM
Well, that's very interesting. As I said, the big boys set their price and every distributor follows suit. If not, they risk losing their distributorship. That's why there is rarely a sale on those kinds of rods. And prices rarely vary more than a few dollars.
Kit prices can however vary. Who's to say what the cost of the blank is vs. the cost of the components?
Most, if not all, builders will warranty their workmanship. If you break a rod, that is not the builders fault. The blank manufacturer will honor their warranty but you will have to pay the builder to rebuild your rod. The components that can get salvaged can get used again. If your reelseat comes loose, or the rod breaks due to poor guide prep, or threads start coming undone, that is the builders fault and would be covered under their warranty.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have!
Matt Davis
Mattman
03-12-2003, 12:57 PM
Coach - With all due respect, this is a business for me. If you don't like the discussion, move on. When I hear of people just buying kits for top of the line rods at a fraction of their cost, I wonder what is going on. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is.
With all of the high dollar rod blanks these days one of the biggest problems right now facing us ALL is the influx of counterfeit blanks. Joe Blow buys two thousand rod blanks from some factory in Indonesia for $1.50 a piece. And then sells them to another distributor or sells them himself as Loomis first overruns or St. Croix seconds for $40 a piece. It's becoming a serious problem. And guess who will be paying for it?
Better to have and not need than to need and not have!
Matt Davis
terry
03-12-2003, 02:06 PM
mattman; If one would like to get started in this as a hobby, what precautions should one take to make sure we are getting what we pay for? By this, I mean how would one know if you were getting true blanks or some second rate knockoff. It has been my observation that sometimes there are times when a person can get a real buy or steal on good quality original items. This is not always the case but it seems to be happening more these days with all the competion. I would like to try building some rods but don't want to support some ripoff artist either. As in all things, i'm not too sure that just because you pay more for it, that means it must be the best out there. Any heads up tips on where to get rods that are truly what they say they are? The world of knockoffs seems to be getting more rampant in the fishing industry. Terry
St. Croix rods are price protected. They can not be advertised below a price set by the factory.
If a custom rod blank were to fail (deemed warrantable) the rod manufacturer is responsible for replacement of the blank alone. Other damages would be deemed consequential, direct, indirect or incidental and would not be covered under the warranty. If you had to build a new rod the labor and necessary parts would be a "cost of doing business". However, if the rod were purchased through the manufacturer these costs are generally absorbed by the manufacturer.
Best Regards,
FJH
GLO,
I have a couple of the Legend Elite 6'3" MXF (ES63MXF) rods and I love them. I've been replacing my Avid rods with the Legend Elites and so far I've been very happy. I mainly use the 6'3" rods for pulling around 3-way rigs and some jigging. In my personal opinion I'd buy them from St. Croix as opposed to a "custom made". I guess I just look at it as though St. Croix developed the IPC technology, they should know how to construct a rod to get the most out of their blank. I'm not taking anything away from Thorne Bros. I've heard that they construct wonderful rods.
Best Regards,
FJH
Mattman
03-12-2003, 03:23 PM
Terry - If you are looking to buy blanks as a hobbist... Buy from a reputable dealer. That's pretty easy to do. Cabela's, Angler's Workshop, Mudhole, and others. Big firms with extensive web sites and good catalogs. These are the guys that buy direct from manufacturers. They don't get counterfeit blanks because they buy direct.
Every "first" blank you get should come wrapped in a plastic bag with a cardstock label stapled to the top of it. The label will have the blank info on it, manufacturer, logo, warranty info and stuff like that. You should also get a decal that you can apply to the rod and then finish over it. Usually with the companies logo and blank info. If you are at all in question of the validity of a blank, call the supposed manufacturer. They may have other ways of IDing the blank. I'm sure the first question you'd get is, "Where did you buy it?"
Stay away from "blems" and "seconds". These are the easiest and most likely to be counterfeit. Also, whether it's a real mccoy or not, blems and seconds are rejects. You may not get a blank that lasts past the first fish. Some turn out to be good, some don't, and more and more aren't real.
If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
That's about it. The industry is starting to have a hard time with this issue and many companies are trying to figure out ways of protecting the consumer. And themselves. Some of this is due to the manufacturers themselves. Mostly by letting blems and seconds out into the marketplace in the first place. Many companies now grind their blems and seconds. Some, I've heard, have started painting the insides of the blanks an odd color. Too hard to remove that, so magically turning a blem into a first is too costly. And all that adds up to an increase in cost to us. But how they can make sure that you can be sure what you buy is legit? That's a tough one.
It is possible to get good deals. A company is giving up their dealership, they buy direct, they're clearing out their inventory, they have no worries about slashing prices because what's the manufacturer going to do? Last year I found such a deal. I bought 3 Loomis' at 60% off retail. I knew this company was one of only 5 Loomis distributors so I knew it was legit. Another great deal I ran into was again from a distributor of Loomis blanks getting rid of 2001 models. The 2002's were a different color. Think they were 40% off. But again, I was sure of the validity of the distributor.
Better to have and not need than to need and not have!
Matt Davis