Pro vs Amateur

[dave]

How many amateurs fished in the big time tournaments {RCL or PWT}and thought they could have done better than the pro they drew or was it a waste of time and money for what you learned from the experience.

[WAZ]

It's the nature of competion. Whether it's a pro, a guide, fishing buddy or the guy in the next boat you what to do better. If you don't think you could do better I don't think you would be competing. After every tournament adventure there is usually a long ride home for everyone but the winners. During this long ride home you second guess yourself. I shoulda woulda coulda. Different lures, different depths, faster slower, other locations and the most difficult in no-cull slot tournament I shoulda kept that 16 incher or I should have released that 20 at noon so I could have kept the 29 incher I caught five minutes later. There are alot of variables involved with fishing. Everyone has bad days and good. The pro is a pro because he has the boat and paid the higher entry fee. The succesful ones have fishing networks and share alot of information. Generally they are just as competetive as you and want to catch fish as badly as you. I have fished both sides yes it can be frustrating for both anglers at times. The pro untangling your lines, baiting your hooks, tying your lures, baby sitting you while you hurl into Lake Erie, trying to figure out what to give this guy after he just broke two of your $300 custom made Loomis GLX rods after showing him several times how to point he rod at the snag put your hand on the bail and pull towards yourself. And the whole time feeling the pressure of trying to catch fish for the both of you. The co-angler looking at the rod a projust gave him to jig with. A 4 foot fiberglass zebco. And when you question him about the equipment he tells you it a great rod for jigging. After a couple of hours you really want to catch fish but you can't wait to get back to shore. These are of course extreme examples but 99% of the time things go OK. If you think you are better than them spend the cash and take weeks off of work and away from your family and go out and win a few hundred thousand. Seemed easy enough for the fellow that won $400,000 at the RCL Championship. But remember there is only one winner. The other couple of hundred contestants fished hard and hopefully had fun but they had that long lonely ride home thinking what if? If you don't think you could do better next time don't tournament fish. Stay positive.

[rangerpat]

Applause to WAZ that was HANDS DOWN the best description of a Pro/AM I have ever read or heard!!! You said it all!!!!
Thanks rangerpat

[targa2]

I think that some Amatuers are expecting too much from the experience. That is the key word,EXPERIENCE. As an amatuer I have had great days with rookies and bad days with veterans. How each one of these people handled the experience made all the difference. I remember sitting at the pre-tournament meeting for a pro-am bass tourney listening to this one obnoxious character. He claimed that if he could afford a big bass rig he would be just as good as any of the pro's. Maybe, but that is part of the total package of being a pro angler. I am from Canada and fish the PWT now as a pro.I have had to make this a 52 week a year proposition just to afford the opportunity to be part of what your great country has built.I did absolutely terrible my rookie year. You know what though. It was worth it just to hear one of the veteran pro's say how impressed he was watching how hard I worked every night on my gear in the parking lot. "Determination like that is what it takes" he said."Takes a lot of years of persistance to do well in this game" was his reply when I told him how poor I was doing.My advice to new people is to be an impartial observer looking at the beginning of a long journey.Learn, have fun and don't be too concerned about winning.

[Mable Eyes]

I signed up for the RCL amateur portion for the Detroit River. I am going into this this with the same attitude I have when I go on a Hunt. You get out of it what you put into it. If you are looking for negatives you will ALWAYS find them.

I am entering to learn the ropes of the Tourney atmosphere, the techniques the pros will use and a good time of Fishing a great Fishery. (I have fished the Detroit River and Erie Before...) Whoever I draw the first two days will get a few questions thrown at em.


While I don't think I am any superpro, I can and have caught a few fish, and I do know I can learn and follow directions. Most of the time I only get shown up when I take a Women along :) So I supsect the Good Lord will humble me with a full days education from the likes of Juls.

Oh well, It's a tough Life, but someone has to live it...

If I happened to break someones 300 dollar Rod, while I wouldn't enjoy doing it, I would replace it. Matter of fact, If they told me that is what it cost, I would probably ask to use the 4 ft. Fiberglass rod:)

And If I win something, Maybe I will buy one of those R-C-L boats.

-Rod-

[mnjimcarp]

rod, you are going to have a great time! fishing the RCL and life seem to be alot more fun when you have such a positive attitude.
whine less, fish more! jc

[Chad]

That is why they have two divisions. Maybe it is time to step up to a Pro spot if you begin to feel that way.

[Skeet]

I have only fished as an AM in the NAWA a couple times and the mistake I made was fishing the Tourney on the lake I fished every weekend(Mille Lacs) I drew a PRO from Michigan one time and he had us pulling hot tots in the middle of no where because he caught a suicide 6 pounder during prefishing. I knew we could file out on the sand 1 mile away but could not say anything. The lesson I learned was not to fish a PRO/AM, as an AM, on a lake you know well. Good luck

[s.f.]

great and very true observation in regard to the intent of the original post.

#49

[Cary RCL]

For you First time RCL fishermen and women get ready to have some fun. As some of the RCL bunch from last year can tell you, I'll be bummping fish and somebody will be getting harrased. I don't know who until they get to the bumptub and I get started on them, but you can bet someone will get it every tourney. It's the only I get to have any fun at them. When you have to watch everybody else take off to fish and then your work day starts it kinda sucks. So yaall get ready cause I'm getting primed up for the first one. See ya at Detroit.

Cary RCL Bumptub Guy

[Doug Burns]

Blantant plug time. I have a book available here on WC called
"Twelve Days in Walleye Heaven". The book chronicles my experience as
an am in 1995 on the entire NAWA circuit. I was fortunate to fish with some great anglers like Ron Seelhoff, Steve Fellegy, Johnnie Candle and others. I was also privy to much of went on behind the scenes. It was one of the best summers of my life and I learned how little I really knew about walleye fishing. Some of my am partners the next year probably thought I should have fished another year as an am.

Whether you think you are good enough to compete as a pro or just want to learn, I would highly suggest fishing the am sid at least once.

Doug Burns

[s.f.]

great book for anyone interested in getting true insight to this subject.
doug...those were the days! you were a great partner and it has been good to see you come along over the years. as you have knocked at the winners circle door several times, it'll happen if you keep knock'n. great book!

#49

[Doug Burns]

Thanks Steve,

I plan on kickin' that door in this year. But, it is a tough to
do, just ask Rick Olson. See you at the shows and on the water.

Doug

[RD]

Doug,

Good to hear you are still around. I had a lot of fun in 96 when I fished all four NAWA tournaments. I still feel bad I talked you into going all the way out to the "C CAN" the last day of the 96 Erie tournament against your better judgement. We were lucky to make it back and they ended up canceling the day anyway but I was in first place and couldn't stand not being out there. That was still the most interesting boat ride of my life. You were very gracious. Thanks.

[StoneyPteTom]

You have to be very careful on comparing your skills to the pro's skills based on the days results. I fished the PWT last year as an AM. I spent two complete days jigging in the Trenton Channel with my pro partners. I landed 11 walleyes and my pro partners landed 3. The one pro actually got skunked, big 0. By almsot out catching the pro's 4 to 1 does not mean I was better than they or knew more.

I could easily brag that I kicked their butts but that is surely not the case in this situation. They were in the front of the boat controlling our drift with the electric trolling motor while I was in the back. You mostly fish the river at a slight drift so the guy at the back is going to get to present his jig first to the fish holding near the bottom as you pass over them.

I just figure I was doing a pretty good job because I did not let many get past me to the pro at the front of the boat! I am sure if we would have switched, the pro's would have caught 11 and I would have got the 3 passed over ones. That is if I was able to control the boat as well as the pro's did. This is just my theory though, maybe I did put the whippen on them and this is a nice way of explaining it!

I just registered last week for the RCL event in Trenton. I hope it wasn't to late. If you pro's get me for a partner and plan on jigging, you have better been practising your netting in the off season!

Oh, my other PWT pro partner had us troll with heavy three ways and dual leads with stick baits. I had never done it before. I learned a new technique for river walleyes that day and some new locations for future reference. We probably caught about 10 to 12 fish each but he got all the big ones. Probably 4 of the 5 fish weighed were his.

Pretty risky investing over $35,000 in a boat and paying a $1,250 entry fee to find out if you can hang with the pro's! Kmart or Enron stock will probably produce better returns for your money.

[IAranger]

These are all good posts and the more i read the harder it is for me to decide what to do I have been leaning back and forth between trying as an amateur vs trying camp Walleye since before Christmas. I guess my decision will get made when I miss the boat on one or the other and have to take all that is left!
Then I can live in the as WAZ put it coulda,shoulda,woulda if it turns out to be a downer. I really think either will probably be a great time. For the tournament I am drawn to the against the odds chance of winning a few $$$ and even more so the possiblilty of being lucky enough to get to prefish with someone and learn how to size up a new lake that alone would be worth the $500 !!
The Camp Walleye advantage seems to be that it would be a more laid back atmosphere and the opportunity to have people who know lots more than myself teach me a little more about boat control and how to use all the fancy gadgets in my boat that I look at but have never mastered using.

Jeff :)

[s.f.]

i'm sure either experience will be a good choice for you. one thing you mention surely will hold true. the 'atmosphere' will definately be different. you most likely will learn many of the same things in either venue but the learning within the clocking ticking world of competition could be exciting. watching the hours and days tick by in the process to pattern the fish and how the veteran pro's do this
is unprecedented in any other venue. easing a fish to the net worth several thousand dollars is undescribable. the moments before shootoff, as the national anthems are played is as high a feeling as you can get in any fishing experience. as grueling as some boat rides might be, it's as close as one can ever get to the nascar roar headin' to the finnish line.
have fun at either venue!
hope to see ya at the finish line at a tournament though....

#49

[Fish-on]

I'll second the good word on Doug's book. I had the pleasure of editing/publishing it and I enjoyed every minute of it. I remember calling Doug, telling him to hurry up and send the next chapter because I couldn't wait to find out what happened next. Several people have told me they just couldn't put the book down. The agony of defeat and the thrill of victory is all there. And Doug's sense of humor keeps you on your toes. The story about going through all his tackle and double checking everything over and over is so good. Then half way to Mille Lacs he realized he'd forgotten one important thing. Knowing Doug, I can just picture him in the Wal Mart trying to buy a bunch of clothes because he forgot his suitcase.

I also co-wrote the book Journal of a Walleye Pro with Daryl Christensen. If you are at all interested in tournament fishing, both these books are must-read. I don't have anything to gain from their sales so this is not an ad, but they are both here on Walleye Central, and they are money well-spent in my opinion.