bottom bouncer help

[Movil]

Can't fish bottom bouncers worth a darn.

Can you tell me how?

[s.f.]

if i can help it, i don't fish'em much. i'd ratrher use a three-way system. but snag pits force the bounce concept sometimes. i use the lite bite bouncers mostly. they are just as snag resistant and they don't tangle as much.

bottem bouncers is why i started tournament fishing. lol
in 1983, the first national wallye circuit was formed. (manion outdoors circuit) i had fished a few local events on mille lacs (home) but never heard of a national circuit nor was i interested.
the first event was held at mille lacs. so the boys from out of town show up a few days before the event. Mike McClelland and Bob Probst were partners then. they asked locals who would be their best contact for info. so they drive the boat into our harbor and come up and ask me for advice. we talk and i walk them down to the boat to see them off. that's when it happened.
i saw a bucket full of bottem bouncers. now, you gotta understand, i was used to being a stealth, less hardware kinda guy. those contraptions surely would never allow a walleye close, right? but the boys said i was wrong, and they'd prove it! so...as they disappeared into the mille lacs sunset, i thought, geez, if these guys are the big guns, and i have a choice of making $300 guiding that weekend versus thousands winning that tourney, where to i sign up. well...the rest is history. i was at the next event in pierre with bells on. and of course, mike and bob became legends and my biggest challenge. been many waves over the bow since then. lol

back to bouncers...when i FINALLY gave in and tied one on... ##### thing was always tangled! so i ask mike, "how do you fish with these things"? his answer is the same i will say to you..." you gotta be smarter than the bottem bouncer". lol lol

#49
steve fellegy

[perchjerker]

I never leave the dock without my bouncers! Heck, I even bought a mold to make them.

What kind of problem are you having with them?

[BIG AL]

Bottom bouncers are our #1 weapon in our arsenal for walleye. We use 1 1/2 oz. on up to 3 oz. for trolling Lake St. Clair and the Detroit River in the summer. Crawler harnesses with a 36" lead are the ticket on most days. The reason I think you guys are having problems with tangles is you are letting the line down too fast, causing the harness or lure to tangle. Hope this helps. ><> ><> ><> AL

[Chad]

Here are some notes I took from a recent Keith Kavajecz seminar:

Bottom Bouncing is a very effective way to fish having won more money in tournaments then any other presentation. Keith suggests tying directly to R bend bouncers and using a snap swivel on looped or crimped. Early in the year he likes to hit the shallow flats and breaks. As for bait, Keith uses crawlers 80% with leeches and minnows split the other 20%. Bouncing requires a steady pulling action keeping 45-degree angles on the line. A stop and go action will result in snags. Keith uses the 10-foot rule when deciding on the size of bouncer to use. 1oz per each 10 ft of depth. This is modified and more weight will be needed if moving faster or fishing current. Stable weather is the best time to go with a spinner. He uses a flashing spinner with clear water and goes to a bright color in dingy water. His favorite color is the new Northland holographic blade in Rainbow. It adds flash and color. With a tough bite, try switching to a bare hook or a hook w/ a bead.

[Peanut]

Based on experience, one of the most common problems is running them with too much line out.

What happens then is the bouncer does not run near vertical, as it's supposed to. If it's running more parallel to the bottom, it'll snag easier, and what happened to me was my rig always twisted around the bouncer's shaft.

The rule of thumb people use is to try and have your line enter the water at a 45 degree angle, and with this, your bouncer should be heavy enough so that it reaches bottom.

Let us know if you have more questions.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[perchjerker]

Chad and Peanut are right on. One reason I make them myself is I like using a 4 oz bouncer in certain conditions to achive that 45 degree angle. But 4 oz is a hard one to come by. It might seem like a lot of weight, but having the 45* angle mens less line out and greater sensivity, its like your are in constant contact with the bait.

Another thing I see is people have trouble with the bouncer twisting around itself before you get it in the water. If you cant get the hang of lowering it in slowly (I like to grab the harness and lower the bouncer is the weater first) is try the bouncers without arms. The are a littler easier for beginners sometimes.

[eye_guide]

Along with what is posted so far I would like to add this. Use a good quality bb swivel on your spinner instead of just a straight loop. The swivel on the bottom bouncer isn't enough and this will save you alot of headaches.

I do alot of bottom bouncing over the course of the summer and go through over a thousand and sometimes more by the time its over. Its a presentation that once you figure it out will seem easy and will generally be your top producer.

[Eyez]

A bottom bouncer with too much line out, makes a pretty good grapple hook, eh? :) Gotta keep the line short and tight, or that bouncer will lay down on it's side, and hang up on the first thing it finds. Just enough to let it back to hit bottom occasionally. It doesn't have to drag bottom constantly, just so you can touch bottom when you drop it back. Most people I know use too light of a bouncer for their purpose. I don't even know why they make 1/2 ounce bouncers. I rarely ever use anything lighter than 1.5 oz. Bouncers are not exactly a finesse technique, don't worry bout using extra weight. In tailraces or water deeper than 25 feet, or if I'm moving fairly fast with a big spinner, I'll go up to a 3 ounce bouncer.

I really prefer not to use them if I don't have to. The only time I really ever prefer a bouncer over a different style rig is if I'm moving fast (1 mph or so) with spinners or fishing real snaggy areas. Most times I prefer not to use them.

I'm not an expert by any means, just someone who's used them alot ;)

Eyez

[s.f.]

in reference to several posts in that talk about the 45 degree angle.... understand all, that every time you change sinker weight, and stay fishing at the famous 45 degree angle, your speed has to change. this a major misconception of how to pull spinners etc. there IS a perfect speed. the 45 degree angle is that speed ONLY at the two ounce sinker level. any variation of that weight, heavier or lighter , you will have to change the line angle, more or less, to continue the same speed of the bait/boat.

#49

[perchjerker]

Steve-
Im either not understanding you or I dont quite agree.

If I am fishing a given speed, say 1.5 mph, using a 2oz weight in 15 ft of water, and I am ticking the bottom at a 45* angle with a given amount of line out.

Lets say I move to 25 ft depth, same speed. I then have to play out more line or my bouncer wont hit the bottom. In doing so, I get more "bow" in my line, decreasing the angle from 45* to say 30*. I put on a heavier bouncer to make up for this, I can decrease the amount of line out, touch bottom and maintain my speed. Thats why I carry a variety of weights.

Maybe Im missing something here. Thats how I have always done it.

[s.f.]

or maybe i have been missing something. lol

here is the best example i can give you of how my theory holds true.

i ran a charter boat for many years. almost exclusively, i fished spinners and three way rigs, trolling or drifting with the big boat.
now, i had an average of 4 lines out each side of the boat, all in all line, from one end to the other. inorder to keep things from tangling, since these people were sitting about six feet apart, i graduated the weight size from rear to front. in other words, the rear lines used 1 3/4oz. and the front lines 4oz. of course, they were all going the same speed, being fished off the same boat at the same time. the rear lines were stretched out pretty far behind the boat. the front lines were almost straight down. envision?? different weights, same speed, different angles. envision??

#49

[perchjerker]

Of course that makes perfect sense.

The only thing I can see different here is that I am trying to maintain contact with the bottom at different depths at the same speed. A heavier sinker is going to run deeper than the lighter one. Using your example which weight would hit bottom first? The heavier one. And you are going the same speed. But yes, the angle would change. I think I see your point, now. But, in a way, you are making my point, at a given speed, a heavier weight will run deeper. Mybe I am getting hung up on the 45* angle thing too much.

I think we might be comparing apples to oranges, here, or maybe I just need a beer!!! LOL

[s.f.]

believe me...you need a beer.

#49

[Peanut]

I get what he's saying - say you have a 2 oz bouncer, and you're cruising along so that it's both on the bottom and at the 45 degree angle.

What Steve is saying is if you speed up or slow down with this set-up, you won't be running right. Faster, and you won't touch bottom, slower and your bouncer will lie down.

So, if you want to change speeds, you may have to change weights to maintain contact and angle, even if you don't change depth.

Good point, and, I think this interpretation earns me a beer!

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Cangl]

Movil the above posts are correct with distance, too far is far gone also expect to hang up ten times more frequently when going "downstream" if your hanging up going downsrteam a three way set up is more effeective anyhow. Thats why I usaully use a good snap swivel to a closed eye bouncer, then when coming down stream I unsnap the bouncer and connect a three way swivel with a dropper line for the weight which has a snap also and the leader line which also has a snap this is a bigwater river rig primarly. As for the rod your using it may need a little more load (bend) then what your using, some give to the rod will enable the weight to hold bottom better, high modulous rods can be to tight. The rods I like for river trolling are 7ft 1 pc Ugly sticks in Meadium Heavy with black foam handles they load up to 4 ounces well and are darn reasonable with smallboards.

[wheels]

On the other spectrum of "Eyez", I rarely use a bottom bouncer over 1 oz. In fact, I use 3/4 oz most of the time, and use 1/2 often, and believe that fisherman often use too heavy of a BB for their needs. On top of that, I rarely use them over 1 mph. Sounds like we are using them for completely different things.

Bottom line is the bottom bouncer can be very versatile! Eyez, not causing waves, just wanted to show how versatile it can be.

"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"

[Cangl]

Peanut not meaning to be "cruel" but one American coming right up!!

You asked for it! :P

[Chad]

Maybe something stronger....a martini? Shaken not stired!

The faster you go the more weight you need to keep the same presentation. This is because of the increased water resistance. The slower you go the less weight you will use. It is impossible to state absolutes in fishing. Ya'll should know that by now! Too many variables. Whenever you are talking about trolling (slow or fast) you will need to vary the weight with the speed to achieve the correct depth. More speed=more weight, less speed=less weight. Play around till you find what works for you.

[perchjerker]

Yea, my point was same speed, more weight, greater depth.
I was talking about fishing deeper, not faster. Must not have been clear enuff.

Where's that beer...

[mnjimcarp]

what altitude are you fishing at? do you have fresh or saltwater?
water density can be a factor. weeds growth, fresh water shrimp and other factors will need to be determined.
LOL

[perchjerker]

Yea, I think dog needs to be shot!!!

hurry up spring!!!

[Peanut]

One?

Ater years of drinking our own, if it's American, I'll need more than one!

Although, a Coors Light is a Coors Light I always say, so set us up!

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[tj1n]

One other thing I do and have found to be effective, so that the you keep your bait/spinner horizontal is to cut the bottow wire on the bouncer in half & shorter longer depending on the current or speed/weight of your setup. Usually I find that they are way longer than necessary.

Good luck,
Travis J.

[FONZ]

I may have missed this with all the replys .I would be using the bottom bouncer in less than 10' Do you guys run with in line boards or just off the side of the boat. Also do you use your electric troller or your kicker in less than 10' thanks

[s.f.]

please, you 're killin' me today. i ain't stoppin' with a martini
if we gotta go much further. lol lol lol

my reference to this speed subject, has been in regard to the 45 degree angle of the fishing line. obviously, i am talking about staying in contact with the bottem and MAINTAINING the SAME speed. even though you change weights, again, your favorite speed, if you have one, and want to fish that speed at all times, will no longer be the same if you fish all sinker sizes or weights at a 45 degree angle. now...pour me another one! lol

#49

[River_eye]

S.F. I think I understand what you're saying, although I think the first post worded it a little funny.

What you are saying is. First find the right speed, then find the right weight to give you that 45 degree angle at any given depth. Otherwise you may end up playing with your trolling speed to acheive that 45 degree angle, sacraficing some of the spinners effectivness, when you should be playing with your weight and keeping the speed constant.

[muskiediver]

I have experimented with using heavy ones and a lure. I run into a lot of snags.

[Eyeokie]

Where did you buy a mold for bottom bouncers? Have been looking for one with no luck. We fish in the South and often go 50' plus with bouncers and harnesses. Would like to buy or make bouncers heavier than 4 oz. Any help would be appreciated.