You trollers finally got to me!

[JLDII]

OK, I've decided to cross over to the other side of fishing and give a more dedicated attempt to trolling with cranks. I've done it before, and with a measure of success, but not to the degree I'm committing myself to, and probably not to the degree many of you here do now.

Here's my question, and don't any of you laugh when you read this, but....How much backing do most of you use on the Diawa Sealine 27's? I'm setting myself up with 4 outfits, 2 for long lining, and 2 for boards.

And in case you don't think I'm serious about this, I just ordered 10 doz. new crank baits!

[ScottL]

You are well on your way my friend to a new monkey on your back. 10 dozen new cranks is a good start. I have purchased about 50 since Jan. 1st.

Since you are asking about backing I'm going to assume that you are going to be using a super braid like PowerPro or Fireline as your main line? I would first determine how many feet of line is the most you would ever let out while trolling then add 100' to allow for setting out the planer board and then another 50' for playing the fish. The amount of backing doesn't have to be all that much but it should be consistent on all your reels so that you have a matched set to be able to repeat the same presentation with each different reel. Remember that linecounter reels such as the Daiwa's measure line by spool revolutions, it's not an exact measurement. The more full the spool is the more acurate the length out reading is going to be.


Regards,

Scott Lee

Since there is six times as much water as dry land on earth, any fool
can plainly see the good Lord meant for man to fish six times as much as he works.

[Ristorapper]

From Jonnie Candle and Jim Carroll's Walleye University:

450 FEET of 10# backing using XT (dia. .0134")

330 YARD full spool of Fireline 10 # test/4 # diameter will fill the spool on a 27 LC Daiwa Linecounter reel.

Correct me if I made a mistake on this JC!!

[Box]

If I recall right, crank on the amount of fireline you want to use. Then add the backing of whatever type, to the full spool point. Note how much backing and fireline it was. Then crank it back onto another reel and it will be perfect. Then you should have a decent idea of how much each will take, or you could reproduce the same steps, but it would take some time :)

Have fun, we aren't into trolling that much, but we have found success, and it is fun. Once they start biting and we found the depth and location, it makes you feel like we know something ;)

-Box

http://www.walleyecentral.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=103808

[2025ifs]

personally i would go with a heavier fireline than 10# I use to use 10# and found I broke off too much. If your useing the presition trolling book you would be closer to the line weight they use too with a 20# fireline other wise you will be deeper than the book says.

[JLDII]

It sounds like I might have miss lead you guys with my question. Sorry!

I'm not planning on running Fireline or any super braids, just straight mono. Actually, #12 Sensation to be exact. Same diameter as the #10 XT, but with a little more strength.

My reasoning behind my question was, if the reels hold 280 yds. of #10 mono, and the most I'm going to put out is 220 feet, plus 100 feet for the boards, I should be able to get by with about 150 yards of good line, and fill the rest of the spool with some older stuff. BUT....as I said, I'm new to this, so if I were to follow my unexperienced assumption, will I wish I had done it different later?

[Ristorapper]

The Precision Trolling book has conversion charts to convert dive curves to most any line you are using. I simply convert everything to 10/4 fireline and make my own chart using strictly the cranks I use and the line I use. It all fits on an 8X11 sheet of paper and I laminate that; very handy. I have three different tables, one using 10# mono, one using 10/4 fireline and one using 14/6 fireline; depending on which body of water I am fishing and the size of the walleye I am wrestling.

I have since thought of using a braided line that would very closely follow the 10 # mono dive curve. That line I selected is the 30# test 8 # diameter Power Pro. I don't have that much experience with this line yet but will have more time with that line this summer.

By using my rechargable drill, I will take off line from the linecounter reels onto dowels(put a square head screw into the end of the dowel and crank away). Leave the backing on the LC 27 and reel on a different line for which ever occasion I am faced with.

[Ristorapper]

do as the above post. Reel on 150 yards of the 12# test that will be your main line. Then tie your knot (uni to uni) to your backing line and fill spool until about 1/8th inch from full to near full. NOW take another empty 27 and spool from the full reel to the empty reel being very carefull to start at zero on your empty LC reel. When you get to the Knot record the number on your line counter reel and duplicate that amount of backing to all other reels. Zero LC reel and wind from the Knot the rest of your 12# test main line. Record number after that line is completely wound onto the 27 LC. Duplicate that onto the other three 27 LC's good luck!!

[Schnauzer]

I use 10# fireline and can't recall having a breakoff. I have had a snake or two bite me off but I very rarely lose lures.

[bentrod]

Buy a big spool of #12 Sensation and full the reel, no knots to break or get caught in the guides, line is cheaper than crankbaits and lost fish.

bentrod

[bob oh]

I am not an expert but I can't imagine why you would need more than 450 feet of your main line for walleye fishing. Steelhead or salmon and you are in a different ballpark, but if you have about 330 feet out max, 450 will surely be enough for them eyes. On the side, I don't have any problem with 12# but I wouldn't want to run it for big dipsies -- I've lost a few doing that (when someone snaps them too hard) and that smarts -- $11 - $12 bucks for the dipsy plus snubber, leader and spoon -- ouch!
Good luck Jack!!

rod bender bob

[2025ifs]

i second filling the hole spool with all mono. The only reason I use backer is because fireline is so expensive it would be a fortune to spool eight reels fully with it. It is nice to have the whole spool with all one line, no nots because if you break a bunch off you will still have good line.

[Toolman]

Jack,

I agree with Ristorapper on filling the entire spool with 12# Berkley Sensation, but you can certainly get by with 450' (150 yd) of main line if you have some line you want to use as backing. I use 450' of braid on top of mono backer for some of my set-ups. To get the reels filled up to exactly where you want them I'd suggest measuring out your main line (split a 300 yd spool in half somewhere you have some room like a local baseball or football field) and wind it on first then top off with backing. Respool this onto another reel. Repeat for the first 3 then reverse it twice onto old filler spools then spool the line onto the last reel. Good luck with your new addiction ;-)

Tim

[JLDII]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I think I'll just fill the spools completely with new line to start with this season, and consider how much of that I'll replace next year.

I appreciate all the help, and I'll probably be asking some more questions as time goes.

Thanks.

[John in Mn]

Why not cancel the order on the 27's and get the 17's. That's what i'd do if I could do it over!

[srj]

Jack, a couple thoughts for your trolling adventure. I've been a crank dragger for many years, mostly on Mille Lacs and LOW. The second year fireline was on the market I switched to 10# on my 27's (now 17's) for two primary reasons. First, I prefer not running any weights with cranks so running less line for a given depth is a plus--especially on ML where #9 shadraps get eaten a lot and #9's will run 20' with fieline. Secondly, if I have someone who is not an avid fisherperson, the fish is almost always self-hooked even with a fairly loose drag and they can reel it to the boat with no rod pumping.

I have had no problem with line breakage and encounter a few mongol pike every season trolling.

That trolling whack doesn't by any means compare to the subtle pickup of your leech or crawler while rigging or the pop of your jig getting eaten.........but it's not bad when your rod pounds in the holder with a good eye on the other end.

Say hi if our trolling paths cross--white/silver Yar 1895, F115 tiller.

[Badger 05]

For me, a trolling addict, the issue is not how much line the reel will hold but rather how much line needs to be spooled to make the linecounter accurate. After some trial and error, for my reels (not daiwas) 450ft of 10lb Trilene Mono Backing with 675ft of 10/4 fireline mainline is the ticket. I literally measured accuracy with a 100' tape measure. I re-spool as needed as I use line from the reel (cutting/retying etc.). I started doing this after noticing that two reels with different amounts of line on them were putting the same cranks at very different depths with the same amount of line out. I know that different cranks of the same size type etc. can run at different depths but I have checked and double checked this theory and it does make a difference. I am even so anal as to mark certain individual baits with a sharpie as to their running depth at 100ft. of line out. Just my .02 cents.

Fishing is: One jerk waiting for another jerk at the end of his line

[Ristorapper]

Not anal at all. Everyone of my crankbaits has a depth number on the bill for quick reference as to their diving ability at 100 feet back; all based on the precision trolling book.

If you can't see going with a full spool of line on the 27's buy the 17's. I have gone that way and have my 10/4 fireline spooled on two of them. YOU NEED FULL SPOOL OR NEARLY FULL SPOOL for accurate readings from the linecounter. 450 feet of backing and a full spool of 330 yards of fireline sounds rediculous, but that is what it takes to spool a 27 full to get accurate readings from the LC if you want to get the depths out of your lures based on Precision Trolling Guide.

[Sunshine]

Jack,

Welcome to the dark side :cheers: :rock-on: :bowdown:

I would also go with the 17's. I use both but find myself going to the 17's more and more. 27's work great with segmented leadcore but for mono and superlines(I use PowerPro) I go with the 17's.

You do not have to worry about backing with the 17's

[Sportdog]

I have used the Sealine 17's, 27's, Accudepth 57 (for leadcore) and unless you are going to target large king salmon the 17's will do fine for you. For walleyes the 17's are just what the doctor ordered, no matter what line you choose. Have a ball, I luv to troll!

[JLDII]

Thanks for all the ideas and support guys.

Just got home a little bit ago from a day trip to Cabela's in Owatonna. I think I'm just about set to really get into it!

4 Sealine 17's
2 Cabela's 8'6" telescoping board rods
2 Gander Mtn. Guide Series 8'6" trolling rods
4 Off Shores w/tattle flags
124 Daves KA-BOOM Shiners (came yesterday!)
Another 24 each Reef Runners, Rip sticks, and Little Rippers (came today!)

Now I just need to get some Plano boxes!

One other question for you guys, it has been recomended to me to use different boards than Off-Shores in shallow water. I believe the name used was "Crickets", or "Checkers"??? Supposedly they are a smaller size and profile and do not create as much wake or spook fish in shallow water and work much better when pulling smaller sized cranks.

Any comments or advise?

[Sportdog]

I used the small "Church" mini planers for river fishing, back trolling Hot N Tots, and they worked fine with 15# test Big Game mono and 30/8 Spiderwire Stealth. No slipping even with the superline and very easy to take the board off. These little boards allowed me to use six rods for my Grandson, Son-In-Law, and I so we could really cover water. We had a great winter/early spring of steelhead fishing. Check these boards out, you will like them.

[Gilligan]

Hey Jack...I'll take a dozen or so of your jigging rods for a $100, that will give you a start on buying that trolling gear!!

[JLDII]

Gilligan,

The way I see it, trolling is no differnt than bobber fishing!!

In both applications, you are setting your bait a set distance below something that floats and you put it in front of the fish! Right?

Only real difference is that boards "drift" a little faster than a bobber!

Until I learn this new game though, I'll be hanging on to my jigging rods.

[Koldfront Kraig]

Jack,

What do like about the Kabooms?

Iv'e never used them, but if a guys buying 124 of one type of crank, he has to have faith in them.

thanks,


Kraig

[JLDII]

I've seen and heard many good things about these lures. I like the wobble action these lures have in the water, and know that they are very good in the river as well as on many lakes. I jumped on an opportunity to join their pro staff this year, and have taken advantage of my position to get a large stock of them to get started with. I chose 31 color patterns I liked and got 2 deep diving, and 2 shallow running in each pattern.

[Gilligan]

The real rush is seeing an Erie pig putting one of those offshore 'bobbers' under the surface!

[jet man]

Jack, question on you line choice. What were the parameters you used when you chose 12# sensation? Versus other mono or Fireline?

[JLDII]

12# Sensation has the same dia. as 10# XT, and thats what the Precision Trolling Book is based on. I want a lower stretch line because I want to develope a shallow water SLOW trolling pattern using speeds below 2 mph, and that lower stretch will help with hook ups when used on the slightly stiffer Cabelas Depthmaster rods. When I say shallow, I'm targeting the 4-12 foot range, and might go as deep as 20 when trolling in the basin.

As for fireline, I know its good for getting lures deeper, and strong, but I want a line that is going to be mostly invisable since I'm concentrating on shallow water that tends to stay somewhat clear until well into July sometimes.

I'm also going to be trying "Church" trolling boards in the shallow water. My understanding is the small ones not only have a smaller profile than the "Off Shores" but they don't kick up as much wake and create less gurggling noise when they cut thru the water, which could spook these shallow water fish I'm trying to find the key for.